TGFB-1

[drew67]

Wouldn't anything that lowers TGFB-1 potentially reverse Peyronies Disease?

[NeoV]

Yes absolutely, we've been talking about this for a while.

[Godisreal]

Are there any proven ways to lower TGFB-1? Anything at all?

[jj21]

YK11 supplementation?

I know they sell it on certain Sarm/peptide bodybuilding supplement sites.

[Bent Ding Dong]

I've tried YK-11 and it did nothing for my peyronie's.

[jj21]

Bent - was it a legit source and did you take it for a long enough period?

Also did it provide any bodybuilding benefits ?

Just making sure it was genuine, I know those sarms/peptide sites sell a lot of fake stuff in Australia.

Also, do you by any chance know of a good medical grade VED source in Australia?

(sorry for all the questions.
JJ

[samsung]

This mention of valproic acid gets me thinking to what I originally thought 2 years ago when this all started. That this can't be a coincidence. There is a member on here JS1991 that has had a similar experience.

This began for me while I was withdrawing from benzodiazepines. The only word I have for this is hell. The real one.

At any rate, the stress from this I think caused some sort of cytokine storm or some such that precipitated the peyronie's.

For those that don't know how benzos work, they enhance the effect of the GABA neurotransmitter. GABA is present in basically every cell in your body. It is what allows you to not think a tiger is about to eat you. Without GABA every system in your body goes haywire.

I've been on valproic acid before. It's called Depakote and it is a powerful mood stabilizer. It works by blockading voltage-gated sodium channels and increases levels of GABA.

So, I've often wondered if GABA and peyronie's are somehow related. Meaning that a down regulation of GABA which occurs when withdrawing off a benzo (or valproic acid) or increasing these levels when taking (in this case valproic acid) would help peyronie's. Would be interesting to know if GABA levels are correlated with TGF beta levels somehow.

Also, Hawk has mentioned before that he recalls numerous people on this forum saying their peyronie's came on during intense times of stress, like a divorce, etc.

During any kind of event like this your GABA levels are going to be depleted.

[samsung]

There is actually a thread about this from 2014...

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php?topic=4810.0

[drew67]

Has anyone tried supplementing with NAD+?  

[Bent Ding Dong]

@jj21, the YK11 was not from legit sources but I tried if from a few different places. I never get results from any bodybuilding hormones except for steroids or MK-677 but my friends always get results from YK11 or anything they take. I just have crap genes which is why I have peyronie's!

I've tried many steroids, various sarms, peptides, IGF-1, GH and MK-677. The only ones I didn't have through the doc was YK11, IGF-1 and MK-677. Are any of them worth it? For me, no. The side effects and costs outweigh the benefits and zero benefits for peyronie's.

As for the VED, I don't know of any places for this sorry.

@samsung, what were the side effects like from Depakote and what dosages did you take? Are the side effects better or worse than benzos?

[jj21]

Bent - I'm also into bodybuilding and have tried various supplements to no avail.

Still keen on trying BPC 157, YK11 and HGH.

?Have you tried HGH?  

[PeetyPeet]

Wouldn't anything that lowers TGFB-1 potentially reverse Peyronies Disease?

So....TGF Beta 1 is part of the process of collagen production and distribution right? In theory, less TGF Beta 1 = less collagen produced in response to trauma.

My question is what about collagen already produced before TGF Beta 1 is lowered? It doesn't seem like lowering TGF Beta 1 would make collagen (or calcified plaque) already produced disappear....

If I'm correct, then any treatments that lower TGF Beta 1 should be considered preventative, rather than curative....which means they are only likely to have any benefits if taken during the acute phase, preferably immediately after injury.

[samsung]

Bent-the side effects of depakote are not comparable to benzos and they would be taken for entirely different reasons. No human should ever take a benzo unless you are having a heart attack, need it for a one time use or need to be in an induced coma. Other than that they should be avoided at all costs.

Side effects for depakote (for me) were mainly extreme lethargy to the point that it is impossible to function. It isn't something you would take as a civilian. It is a deadly serious drug and you need to have blood levels monitored regularly or it will kill you. No ethical doctor would ever prescribe this drug for peyronie's. Nor should they.

[Bent Ding Dong]

jj21, I haven tried BPC 157 but am going to try it as it is supposed to heal the gut which I have many issues with.

Yes I have tried HGH and it was Saizen through a doc so it was real. Had 10 vials and didn't do much for me at all. They reckon you need to take it for more than 6 months before you notice any real gains from it.

samsung, OK Depakote sounds dangerous. Interesting what you say about benzos, I have had Xanax many times and knew not to take it for long periods of time and was unaffected by it but I see what it does to others who can get addicted to it.  

[jj21]

Peety -Those are some really good points you bring up. I'm not too knowledgeable on it but hopefully some more experienced members can explain if your theory is correct. In this case it may be worth saving money isntead of buying all these supplements which may not even reverse our condition.

Bent - Do you mind me asking how you managed to get the doc to prescribe it? I'm in the process of going onto TRT and my doc is okay with it but i'm worried about azoospermia as I do want kids in the future. Please keep us updated on how the BPC goes.  

[Bent Ding Dong]

jj21, I found a doc who would was willing to prescribe it to help with my peyronie's as there was a study done where TRT, HGH was taken by injection and DHT gel was applied topically to the penis and this was supposed to get rid of it which it didn't unfortunately. I wanted to keep going but the doc was getting questioned by the TGA and got spooked and stopped prescribing it for me. The hardest part about it was getting the DHT (Andractim) into the country, TGA would not allow it so I had to order illegally and risk it through customs. I tried dozens of compounding pharmacies in the country to try to get them to make DHT but none would do it.

I have ordered some BPC both inject and oral, hopefully get the inject sometime next week and maybe oral a week or 2 after as that it coming from the US. The oral BPC is supposed to be a precursor to BPC which makes it in your body and especially in the gut where I need it most. I've heard mixed reviews about it, some say it doesn't work and others swear by it. I will no doubt give my honest opinion if it really works or not.

If you want kids, I wouldn't recommend too much TRT. HGH, peptides or MK-677 should be fine though.

[drew67]

My question is what about collagen already produced before TGF Beta 1 is lowered? It doesn't seem like lowering TGF Beta 1 would make collagen (or calcified plaque) already produced disappear.....

The TGF Beta 1 lowering treatments used on rodents seemed to reverse Peyronies Disease  

[jj21]

Thanks Bent - Keep us updated on your progress. If you get a chance please link the study to me or in one of your posts. I really want to go on TRT but the Azoospermia is troubling me. I've heard some people can become fertile by coming off and using HCG and clomid. There was a user here named 'IrishPeyronies' who had success with HGH and TRT to heal his peyronies.... How long wer eyou on the HGH? Id love to try it for six months.

If yo uwouldnt mind linking the study I could show it to my doc.  

[PeetyPeet]

The TGF Beta 1 lowering treatments used on rodents seemed to reverse Peyronies Disease

Very interesting. Do you have a link to the study?

[Bent Ding Dong]

jj21, I can't find the study. I had this treatment about 6 years ago and I remember the study was hard to find then but now I can't find it at all.

TRT will shrink up your balls and yes I have had HCG and arimidex. The HCG causes estrogen as does the TRT but the arimidex lowers estrogen but it's hard to get the dosages right especially when you come off TRT.

[jj21]

Drew - I'm also interested in that rodent study please link it ifyou can.

Bent - Understandable.. What i meant was that some guys can come off TRT, take HCG and Clomid and become fertile. They can get their Mrs pregnant then go back on TRT... In rare cases the TRT treatment results in Azoospermia where the person becomes completely infertile - thats what worries me.

There was also a peptide called E4 I think it was that reverses fibrosis. You guys might be interested in it, no idea if it's even available anywhere.  

[Bent Ding Dong]

jj21, OK, well I guess it can depend on how much TRT you take and for how long. The higher the dosage the more you shut down and yes there is always the risk that you could become less fertile long term. It's not worth it in my opinion. You feel like superman when you first start on TRT, then your balls shrink and you get other side effects and injections hurt.

Oh and I took HGH for 10 weeks. HGH long term is for wealthy people which I am not plus almost impossible to get a doctor to prescribe it to you in Australia unless your levels are below a very low range.

E4 sounds interesting. It's oral too which is nice but I can't find anywhere that sells it.

[jj21]

Bent - On TRT should be able to get Testosterone Undeconate (1 injection every 3 months).. Your concerns are right but I think for people naturally lacking in testosterone the benefits far outweigh the cons. I'm still on the fence about it... My understanding on HGH is you need to take it for 3-6 months for it to be effective.

I had no luck with the E4 either, im not even sure if it's availableanywhere. If you do manage to source it please let me know.

[drew67]

Many of the drugs mentioned in the experimental section of this forum work by lowering TGFB-1.  

[Bent Ding Dong]

jj21, I have been on Reandron which is test undeconate and in my opinion it's the best of the injectable steroids I have had due to the reason you mentioned with less need to inject often but it hurts the most out of all to inject that I have had. It also contains castor oil in it to make the half life longer which I believe adds to the pain. It hurts more after the injection then the actual injection. It feels like someone punched you in the area of injection for several days after. I also get very poor sleep when on it, I just lay awake in bed and can't get to sleep for hours.

You must inject this solution very slowly and if a nurse does it for you, make sure they inject slowly and know what they are doing as there is 4ml of concentrated testosterone with castor oil in it so if you inject too fast, you can get an oil embolism. You also have to use a very big needle as the oil is so thick that it's very hard to push with a small needle and wont come out at all if it's too small and it needs to be a deep injection to work properly. This all adds to the pain levels.

One thing to note if you are going to take this, you will feel next to no benefit from the testosterone for the first month as this is how long it takes to start to release into your system. After that, it's steady levels of testosterone for many months if you inject again before 50 days.

The good thing about it is libido and erections are fantastic on it and it's not like other steroids where you get ups and downs with your libido and erections between injections. The erections are amazing and last for hours even with peyronie's. Also more strength and energy and confidence.

I do not understand why doctors do 3 months between injections, that is too long between injections as it has a half life of just over 50 days and you will notice your libido and erections declining close to that 50 day mark, well at least I did so I sourced the Reandron off the black market to have it monthly and this for me was perfect however after almost a year on it the libido and erections were nothing like they were in the first 4 or 5 months so I decided to come off it. Coming off was not as bad as other steroids as it slowly leaves your system but there are always side effects with steroids for me when it's out of my system such as no libido for more than a month and very poor erections and I always seem to get anxiety and heart palpitations which can be scary. HCG and antiestrogens don't do anything to help these side effects with me.

To be honest, it was a rollercoster ride for me and why I think it's not worth it. If it got rid of my peyronie's or had any benefit for it such as reducing plaque size, I would keep taking it and put up with the side effects but it did nothing for peyronie's for me so not worth it.