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[Fix This]

Hi all

I posted elsewhere about the blood spots that appear on my glans after performing traction ( PMP/ Penimaster Pro mostly) and or VED ( Somacorrect ). I am questioning whether Pentox combined with tractions and VED is causing this

I have been doing VED for about a year on and off , and traction on off for about 8 months. I have also been taking Pentox for about 8 months .  ( I am in the stable phase by the way )

Now, I never experienced these dark red spots for the first 6 months or so of VED. Sometimes some lighter ones on the penis generally and often some general redness, but not these. I never experienced them with traction for about 6 months ( although I did get a blister once on my glans when the device had come loose and reddening of the area after use . In fact the orognal blister area is still one of the blood spots when I do traction or VED now

I rested for about 3 weeks recently and the blood spots were no longer visible. I tried VED ONCE yesterday and they were all visible again. Probably 6-12 dark red small blotches on the penis glans. Like burst blood vessels under the skin

Pentox is said to increase blood flow. Is this the reason that this is now happening? Pentox is said to take several months before it's blood flow benefits come into force ? And I did not experience this problem in the past using VED or traction without Pentox. Which to me suggests that the Pentox combined with the VED and traction is pushing too much blood to flow to the area?

The same could be said for L-arginine and ALC possibly which I'm also taking? And the fact that these blood spots appeared omce again after a single treatment of VED after several weeks rest suggests something has changed internally

It's so frustrating, as I really like the traction and VED treatments. And I fetl I have made improvements with everything, and could have made big strides during the lockdown. But am unable to do either anymore it seems

It really is making me wonder whether the automatic survival guide should include Pentox and VED/ traction ?

I have around another 3 weeks of Pentox left before I run out ( have been buying online from abroad). I won't be continuing for now, as I can't see a large amount of evidfence that it's beneficial in stable phase and I think it's contributing to this problem . But am considering just stopping now because of this. Maybe then I can start VED and traction again

Thoughts please ?

Mod please feel free to move this to another section if you feel appropriate

Thanks

Fix

[McQueen]

Hi

I use PMP along with Somacorrect, but not combined with any other treatment.

Initially, it was just PMP, and yes, I would get some blood spots on glans to start with, but they did eventually fade, but not completely. Then, after the first month, I started using somacorrect, and to be fair, it did not make things worse.

What I did find, was that after taking 1 weeks rest from PMP, I started again, and found that the my glans just about went purple, like a really bad bruise ! and that was straight after re commencing on the first 2 hour session !

After 3 days, I noticed the bruising  / purple colour started to subside.

But what I would add is that I feel that my glans have now become permanently discoloured from the tip to about 3/4 of the way down.

Not sure if it is my fault, or just a possible sympton of the PMP ?

Hope this helps

[Fix This]

I'm not sure , but a permanent colour change doesn't sound great either. Maybe all of this just suggests that we shouldn't really be using these devices!   There doesn't seem to be any way of stopping it. No one has really suggested anything other than resting, which I'm doing

I have stopped taking Pentox now, and have stopped using DMSO and any other topicals that may have been moving down to the glans and adding to inflammation. Am having to take such a big break from these treatments, I'm not sure if I'll even bother going back to them . As I just don't want the blood spots and inflammation

Thanks McQueen for you reply anyway

[TonySa]

Fix, what are your symptoms (ie 30 degree upward curve, etc) and how much improvement did you see w the treatments you were doing?

[Fix This]

Hi Tony

I have dorsal curvature ( the plaque/s are on the dorsal side ) around 30-35 degrees according using a protractor with photos. I haven't done this for a while so it may be different now. Of course if you moved the protractor slightly on the screen you  can get a variation of about 10 degrees! So it's quite hard to measure accurately I think

I will actually take some fresh photos and remeasure and let you know what I find. I am feeling much better about the condition lately, and I think there may be a slight improvement in the curvature and certainy in other aspects

I feel like I've actually made good improvements over the last year with my treatments. I don't regularly measure my old boy . But  made measurements once in December 2018 ( 6 months after injury and onset of peyronies ). I measured again in January 2020. According to these measurements flacid length had improved by about 2 cm, erect length improved by about 2-2.5cm. Improvements in girth too, but I only took one girth measurement in 2018. I took 2 measurements of girth this year in 2020, one at base and one after point of narrowing. The narrow point this year was 0.5cm wider than the previous, the girth at the base was 3.5cm wider than the 2018 measurement. Which I think Illustrates how much the penis wants to expand to, and it would if the plaques weren't stopping the same blood throughout the entire length. 

I have noticed that the narrowing and bottlenecking is looking progressively better over time with the treatments. So I'm very pleased about that and will continue to work on that with VED and some traction

I've stopped taking Pentox during the pandemic. The cost as much as anything , but not sure if it did much or not. Hard to tell as I was taking so many supplements. I've also stopped taking various enzymes , and PABA and Ubiquinol. Still  currently taking 5mg cialis daily, ALC, l-arginine/ l citruline, vit E, propolis

I had to have a break from VED and traction due to the red blood spots. But have started again recently. Just not pumping so hard ( good advice from Old Man ) and not doing traction for much more than 10 minutes . Still doing manual traction too. And employing cold water in the shower every day ( you get used to it ). Have started making the shower cold as I stand in it . Don't start cold , too much for me . Just get in and wash and the gradually reduce the temp as I stand there. Then go super cold for the old boy at the end . I feel like this is helping overall with circulation ( I don't know if is or not ) and I;m sure help[s with inflamation .  One of the other members Bob directed me towards Wim Hoff who I think has a very interesting philosophy about cold ( very cold ) treatments

Was also using DMSO with a mixture Castor Oil, Coconut Oil, Emu Oil  and or a mixture of ground PABA, ACL  powder ( low molecular weight for absorption ) and threw in a bit of ground pentox too sometimes. Normally a bit of Ibuprofen gel too to aid with inflamation

So I think I've made some gradual improvements and have possibly got more used to the fact that I have this condition and not so bothered. My erection quality is pretty good these days too which is a big plus. I am taking the cialis evry day so partly due to this. After the injury I couldn't really get it up at all and thought it was game over so this is good news. So I have a fully functional member now, even if slightly different shape still. I also realise that some of the guys on here have considerably worse curvature than me . So I count myself lucky in this regard.  But also I have done a LOT of treatment to myself over the last couple of years.

I'll let you know about that curvature change or if there is any

Have you had much improvement ?

[melting]

Very nice and thought out how you approached it "Fix This"!
Attacking it from different angles with different means always felt like the way to go. And then doing that as continuous and disciplined as possible.. A lot of small steps to get there. I had milestones but the biggest changes came over time. Staying healthy, getting the supplements to the areas(transdermal) while doing VED and traction everyday(smartly).

Your reasoning about pentox and VED made sense. Cutting a bit back on VED intensity or time(maybe more sets instead with pauses) makes sense. Also maybe Doing the VED when the blood concentration of pentox is lowest is another idea. So basically doing the VED before you take it.

[TonySa]

Fix, sounds like your strategy is working for you.  All my treatments helped somewhat, but given my severe Erectile Dysfunction, ultimately I went w an implant.

[Fix This]

Thanks melting and Tony

I haven't been as consistent as I should have / could have been with any of the physical treatments , so I think I could have had better results if I had. But because of the blister last year and blood spots this year I had to take breaks

Anyway, melting, I've stopped taking Pentox now altogether. Had a break of about a month from VED and traction and since starting again haven't had the bloodpots. I get the feeling the pentox was pushing too much blood to the surface with the pressure of the VED and traction. Also with the DMSO etc.

Anyway, I took some phptps today and then measured with a protractor and it looks like the angle is still about the same at 30-35 degrees. Some photos it's less and some maybe more

With my dick it;s difficult to measure the angle because the curve is upwards, but the underside (Ventral ) is quite bulbous and expanded on the oposite side of the curve. I think this is because of the ved . Its expanded that side of the penis, bit the dorsal side where the plaque is hasn't been able to expand as much. So it's kind of ballooned on the underside. So the dorsal side is quite straight when measured with a protractor, yet the underside is ' ballooned ' and therefore has a banana curvature. If you take the middle point with the protractor it seems to give about 30, take the underside it's more like 40, and take the dorsal side it's more like 15 I think. Again, maybe I need to apply less pressure on the ved in order to bring the ' balooning ' down ?  Has anyone else had this?

When you say ' more sets with pauses ' melting, do you mean pauses between the sets? Or holding longer when pumped up ?

Sorry to hear your Erectile Dysfunction was severe Tony. Good that you did what you had to to get things back. Did the implant work out for you ?

[TonySa]

Yes it did, see my diary’s.

[McQueen]

Hi Fix This

I have re read a couple of your recent posts, and it appears that there is a lot of similarity in our conditions !

Although I use PMP & SomaCorrect, I do not take any supplements etc. What strikes me is that comment you made about a bulbous area on the opposite side to the curve.

I developed exactly the same bulbous area (on the underside) opposite the curve, whilst using PMP the first time round. At this point in time, I never had the Soma Correct, so could only put this down to PMP. Ironically, the PMP corrected my curve to the left, but whilst doing this, I developed the bulbous area, and upward curve.....

You are right in the fact that the bulbous area probably makes the curve look worse than it is, and I believe mine is in the 30 to 35 degree region (I must get it checked more accurately, instead of guessing !!)

Also, whilst taking a break this week from PMP due to a blister, I thought I would try a small amount of manual traction to try and keep things going (as well as continuing with SomaCorrect).

Whilst doing this manual traction, I noticed that I could feel some soft tissue (lump), in the "bulbous" area. Have you noticed this yourself ?

I then tried gently squeezing the little chap between my thumb (on top) and index finger (underside) at the base when flaccid. I then slowly, whilst still squeezing, moved towards the glans, and as soon as i got to the bulbous area, the little fella started to bend upwards !

It was as if the blood flow basically hit the bulbous area (blockage?), and pushed it to the point it caused an upward curve.

Very strange, just wondering if you had experienced the same ?

Cheers

[melting]

I guess there's no hurt in lowering a dosage of pentox. You might need to find a sweet spot(of course don't overdose..toxicity etc.)

When you say ' more sets with pauses ' melting, do you mean pauses between the sets? Or holding longer when pumped up ?

Between sets more pauses.
Most bad side effects from pumping come from too high of an intensity(pressure) and doing it for too long(even at low pressure).


Using fulcrums/hinge points one can influence/pinpoint where the stretch is the biggest and hence influence long term the 'end product'

[MacMathuna]

I think I'm showing some small blood spots. They're little dark red spots, not raised. They don't bother me other than being visible.

Doing PMP around 2-4 hours a day, but sometimes I do more like 6.

Is this a serious problem? Do I need to stop traction?

[Fix This]

Hi Mcqueen

Sorry for the really slow reply. Haven't been on here for months

Yes, I have exactly the same nodule/ lump that I can feel at the curvature point . I've been able to feel this since the onset and it is the plaque.   And yes, I get EXACTLY the same thing when I squeeze my flacid and move towards the glans, a the point of the plaque. The penis bends up at that exact point. Which is the the sma point it curves when erect

If only that damn plaque wasn't there !

Have they come up with a cure yet? Fingers crossed ..

[Fix This]

Well it seemed to get a lot worse after 8 months of pentox ( the blood spots ) . May have been a coincidence . But I stopped taking pentox 6 months ago anyway has I couldn’t see it had made any difference to the plaque or curve . Thanks anyway

[McChicken94]

A lot of revelations and different sounds about traction, VED and pentox lately. And I can confirm from experience that I honestly agree. Keep in mind people, my peyronies started with a jeqling injury and actually overpumping with a VED, so maybe that is why i can no longer tolerate any added pressure anymore or whatever. But it stays in active phase and now I think my best strategy would be to stop cialis, pentox and VED. Stick with lifting weight, not nasturbating much, doing loads of cardio in the form of shooting hoops outside or walking, stay on testosterone and just pray my dck won't get damaged any further. It is a very difficult disease to treat and I agree that for some the suggested treatments might actually make us worse. But I can imagine if your veins are not damaged, your plaque is local from an injury during sex for example then yeah maybe you can more easily tolerate ved and traction, but for those of us with blood spots and discoloration even WITHOUT use of these devices and keeping masturbation to a minimum, adding stress would probably only make matters worse.

[TonySa]

All treatments will be helpful for some and not for others.  I’d say trust your body re VED or traction if you can’t tolerate either (not true for most).  If you’re stopping the physical therapies tho you might consider to continue the oral therapies (pentox, low dose Pde5i, etc). to at least prevent worsening.  Hang in there and ignore jan’s usually unfounded (and opposed to what medical research indicates) advice at all costs. 

[jan.schaller1958]

Yes, I knew Tony was going to say „ignore Jan .......he must be a Xiaflex salesman”, but I’m just saying go with the science.  Put the garlic and ginger on a pizza but forget about it curing peyroines, and don’t use traction without first having had Xiaflex injections. You could cause a penile fracture with that and then you really will be singing the blues. Toss the Pentox- you know it’s most likely not doing anything, and use Pde5i drugs for erectile dysfunction, but don’t expect them to improve the Peyroines. The healthy lifestyle and exercise are great so your heart and cardiovascular system won’t look like mine at 62 (they’re trying to tell me I have hardening of the arteries (athlerosclerosis), but I’m not so sure about that, at least not everywhere ). But not having good heart health and athlerosclerosis doesn’t mean you’ll wind up with Erectile Dysfunction. I didn’t. Just face the simple fact that there are no oral therapies for Peyroines. I wish it were not true, but you just have to face the facts. Use the proven effective therapies under the auspices of a Peyroines specialist.

[TonySa]

Jan, please read the PM I sent you.

[Adrian1234]

Hi Jan,
Sorry to hear you have suspected atherosclerosis.
It sounds like you're keen to try and help people.
I’m just confused as to why you are giving people advice that doesn’t agree with the evidence. You say “don’t use traction without first having had Xiaflex injections. You could cause a penile fracture”. Yes, it is possible to damage your penis with traction. Also many people have had very positive results using traction without Xiafles. Look at the recent research. You also say “Toss the Pentox” … again, please refer to the research. Clearly Pentox doesn’t help everyone but there is good and reliable evidence that it does help some people. That said, if any treatment isn’t working for someone over a time scale where it would be expected to work then getting advice and thinking about changing track would seem to make good sense. It’s comforting to think in black and white but Peyronies Disease is a complex disorder. Not only is it different for different people but some things that work for some don’t for others.
As if trying to wade through all the misinformation about treatment wasn’t hard enough, we have to contend with the real and difficult psychological and emotional issues that this condition throws up.
I hope you are coping ok.
Best wishes,
Adrian

[jan.schaller1958]

Hi Adrian1234,

Thank you for your kind words. I really don’t disagree with you as much as some might think.

Ive looked at 3 or 4 studies on Pentox and you are right. It seems to work in some people (to an extent) and not others. One study I recall where it outperformed placebo by a small margin was only in the acute phase. However in the chronic phase (maybe after a year or so) no benefit was seen.  So, I think the studies are not terribly impressive. I mean in general. They are there and some report positive results, but then only in some people. I guess you could argue that, since it’s relatively harmless as a drug, you might as well try it in the acute phase. It can't hurt (it surely won’t worsen Peyroines).  Beyond that I would question its efficacy.

You wrote, „  Not only is it different for different people but some things that work for some don’t for others.
As if trying to wade through all the misinformation about treatment wasn’t hard enough, we have to contend with the real and difficult psychological and emotional issues that this condition throws up.“

I couldn’t agree more. You said it quite well. This is a complicated illness and that makes it all the more difficult and frustrating to cope with it. It’s like a continuum of 1-10, with 10 being the worst. Some people are ones and others 10s and many in between.

People here say „look at the studies“ and that’s fine, but without citations it’s difficult to know what they are referring to. So, I have to go digging online. And, the studies vary. Not to mention that just because a study gets published, it doesn’t mean it’s the final word on Peyroines, or immune from criticism. Some medical researchers will say it was a poorly controlled study, it was retrospective, it had too small a sample size, etc.

And I appreciate your comments about my alleged athlerosclerosis. I did have blockages in small arteries around my heart, but they were too small to put in stents, so they just put me on statins and anti- high BP drugs.  This urologist who is going to do Xiaflex injections was looking over my records and my cardiac angiogram and told me I had athlerosclerosis. I said, „So what?“ Then he told me my blood flow throughout my body was lessened by plaque in my arteries. Then he asked me „haven‘t you ever noticed if you lie in bed the wrong way your feet get tingly or get numb until you move around? That’s the diminished blood flow.“ I told him „No. I never noticed that.“ Then an internist said the guy was wrong and he should stick with urology and keep his nose out of internal medicine. Athlerosclerosis doesn‘t affect every blood vessel in your body in exactly the same way at the same time. So a lot of men with athlerosclerosis don’t have Erectile Dysfunction. We all know stories of men dying from a heart attack during sex where they had atherosclerosis but not Erectile Dysfunction.

Sorry to ramble on, but I do appreciate your courteousness and kind manner.

Is pentox a blood thinner or not?

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