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Coenzyme Q10/Ubiquinone - Ubiquinol

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pless

The arithmetic in my last post was oversimplified.  For computing the various ratios, individual values rather than average values should be used.  But the data in the abstract doesn't allow doing the proper arithmetic.

pless

Hosoe et al. (2007) is a goldmine of information -- it's required reading for anyone involved in the ubiquinone-ubiquinol debate. 
Every study has its quirks.  Hosoe's volunteers were all young and healthy, in their early 30's.  The bioavailability results are therefore for young and healthy people.  You might believe the relative bioavailability of ubiquinone vs. ubiquinol varies with age, but you won't find any scientific support for this since Hosoe et al. (2007) is the only solid study of ubiquinol bioavailability.

Hosoe measures bioavailability as the amount of serum ubiquinol resulting from an amount of ubiquinol taken.  I think a more standard measure would be the amount of serum total CoQ10 resulting from an amount of ubiquinol taken.  Hosoe's measure combines two steps: the absorption and the redox.  But for Hosoe's subjects "at all time points, the ratios of ubiquinol concentration to total coenzyme Q10 concentration ranged from 96.0% to 98.5%."  These subjects' redox equilibria were so tilted toward ubiquinol that Hosoe's measure is a near match to the more standard measure. 

The primary good done by CoQ10 is from ubiquinol in the blood.  For Hosoe's subjects the ubiquinol:ubiquinone ratio varied from 24:1 to 66:1, but at both extremes the CoQ10 is almost all ubiquinol.   In some ill people the ratio is smaller, but it would have to be very much smaller to significantly impact the amount of ubiquinol.     

goodluck

It is good to know there is no real benefit in multi dosing. 


pizzaman

I'm wondering what makes CoQ10 so special for Peyronies. I read the study about CoQ10 and Peyronie's and they concluded it was probably so effective because it's a lipid soluble antioxidant. Why haven't the same results been seen with high dose vitamin E or other lipid soluble antioxidants?

I'm just thinking maybe dosing (or even megadosing within a safe range) other, even more powerful lipid soluble antioxidants, like astaxanthin, could be beneficial. Any thoughts?
Upon searching, I did see that crashbandit reported greater pain reduction using astaxanthin over ubiquinol.

George999

Different antioxidants are effective for different biological issues.  They are NOT all the same and are not interchangable.  You have to have the right substance for the exact situation at hand.  And just because Astaxanthin is effective, which does not surprise me, does not mean it is interchangable with CoQ10.  CoQ10 has a unique antioxidant benefit to cellular mitochondria which is very likely what makes it effective.  - George

skunkworks

Iherb sent me the wrong stuff, it is a dry powder capsule rather than the soft gels with coq10 in extra virgin olive oil.

Can I just take more tablets to make up for the lack of absorption?
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

[url=http://goo.gl/IOBhJr]Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

George999

If they did not send you what you ordered, you should let them know about it.  They very likely would send the correct product.  If you made a mistake in the ordering, you are out of luck on that level.  For sure you can take any number of tablets, I don't know of any toxicity issues with CoQ10.  But I am not sure that would make up for the inferior dry formulation.  - George

skunkworks

Was just thinking that if it is absorbed half as well, I could take twice as much. I have no idea about that kind of absorption though to be honest, managed to forget everything I may have learned about that in my biology degree.
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

[url=http://goo.gl/IOBhJr]Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

pizzaman

Thanks George, that makes sense.

As for the powdered CoQ10, I accidentally ordered that last time. I did just what you proposed, and started taking 2 200mg pills per day instead of 1. I can't really say if it particularly helped, but it made sense.

LMP

What's the recommended amount of Ubiquinol per day please?

pizzaman

The peer-reviewed study that showed CoQ10 as an effective treatment for Peyronies used 300mg/day.

LMP


goodluck

I know this has come up in the past but things like this change.

Where do people see good values today in buying Ubiquinol?
It is expensive and to be on 300mg per day it is costing me about $40 a month.  When I throw in all of my other supplements it is becoming a financial drag.

I know internet retailers will have specials from time to time.  I recently saw a special on Jarrow Ubiquinol QH absorb (Kaneka) 200mg tablets on Total Health for around $40.

I would appreciate others sharing any good values they know of on purchasing Kaneka Ubiquinol.

Thanks.
Good Luck

George999

I have always used the top of the line Life Extension product, but now I am trying to save some money with this one:

http://www.iherb.com/Healthy-Origins-Ubiquinol-New-Soy-Free-Non-GMO-Formula-100-mg-150-Softgels/12109

LMP


Ironman

Hey guys, late to the party as ushz. BioQ10 SA is the name of a superior, so they say, ubiquinone made by Mitsubishi, who lays it all out, and I'm sure this ain't new info around here. But I don't see that there should be such either/or worries about the CoQ10 issue. Take both, ubiqunol, and ubiqunone. Why not?The trur value of these chemicals, IMO, is if they can "rejuvenate" the single most important antioxidant we ingest--Vitamin C--in the so-called "redox" cycle. Alpha lipoic acid supposedly can, as well as forms of Vit E. There may be another thread on C, but the serious claims made at the Linus Pauling Instititue about reversing clogged arteries, taken along with Lysine, seems to be more relevant to Peyronies than anything claimed by the CoQ10ers. !
Live Long and Prosper \\//

Rags

Hi, can someone please tell me (or even offer a specific product recommendation) what form of Ubiquinol I should be taking? I see there are two different forms, and I just want to order whatever would be more effective. I'm 25 if that factors in to the decision (I saw someone say the one form is better for older people because of the way it is metabolized).

If someone would even be so kind as to offer a link to a trustworthy product on Amazon.com, I'd appreciate it.

Also, I've had Peyronie's for almost three years. It has seemed to remain fairly stable with no real improvement or worsening. I'm wondering if there's actually any benefit to me taking this now, or is it something that would only have helped early on while the plaque was forming?

james1947

Rags

In your age CoQ10 is just fine and much cheaper than Ubiquinol.
For better understanding:
Coenzyme Q10/Ubiquinone - Ubiquinol - Peyronies Society Forums

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

muffslayer

Hey guys, I was thinking back to when my peyronies had recovered the best. And that was when I was taking grapeseed extract. I also think coq10 helped, but grapeseed extract helped the most. So I'm going for an experiment, and I'm going to megadose both of these.

Now usually I buy most of my stuff from iherb.com. Then I remembered I always find it cheaper of ebay, or if I look around.

And I found these: CoQ-10 600mg 900 Capsules Coq10 Co Q10 Coenzyme Anti Aging Cardiovascular | eBay

Much cheaper than buying the 100mg Doctors best from iherb.

Also grapeseed extract has always been cheap for me because I buy it in powder form and cap it myself. And I found out bulkpowders are now selling 250g for £19.99! While before I was paying £9.99 for 100g on myprotein.com. Grape Seed Extract | Grape Seed Powder | BulkPowders

So I've bought 1000g of grapeseed extract £73.96 (you get a further 8% discount for buying 4), when usually this would cost me around £100 (10 x 100g). I also bought 2000 capsules (£22.98), though with this much grapeseed extract I should be able to make 3000-4000 capsules.

Anyway the best purchase I've seen though is the 600mg coq10 from ebay. I'm not trying to promote these sellers, and if you're on a budget it's still costly (£200+) for what I'm doing, but it should last me about 5 months of megadosing (so around £40 a month).

Anyway my regime will be:

2x 600mg Coq10
2x Grapeseed Extract (i think rought 500-600mg in 00 capsules)
2x Gotu Kola (can't remember dose, 500mg I think)
1x 500mg vitamin c

3 times a day with meals.

So I will be getting 3600mg of Coq10, 3600mg of Grapeseed extract, and 1500mg of Vitamin C a day.

I will also take 1 vitamin D 2000ui with a meal, and b complex in the morning. I could take 3 x vitamin d since it's dirt cheap, but too much vitamin d constipates me.

Anyway 900/6 = 150 days, or 5 months. So my regime will last me 5 months before I have to restock on coq10. The other supplements I have an excess or, and vitamin c and d are dirt cheap anyways.

So I thought I'd tell you guys this. I'm waiting for my orders to come through, I live in the UK, so it will take awhile to recieve the coq10. I'll get the grape seed extract in 2 days, but then I have to spend about 5+ hours capping it, but once it's done, it will last me 8+ months of high dose grape seed extract.

From what I remember grape seed extract had the most pronounced effect at reducing my peyronies, but I stopped taking it because I ran out of capsules. Coq10 I've been taking 300mg a day, but because it's expensive, I can't megadose it. Luckily I found that seller on ebay, which makes megadosing possible at a resonable price. The only concern is, is this stuff really coq10, and is it really 600mg. With supplements you never really know, and that's why you stick to brands. But this is the risk I'm going to take. I will know the grape seed extract is legit, because I've taken it before and know what it looks and taste like.

Also this could potentially last me 10 months (costing me £20 a month), if I can implement my alternate day fasting (I'm trying to lose weight as well).

Also vitamin c has a synergenic effect when it comes to blood vessles, and a healthy heart. So it can only benefit my peyronies I believe.

Lastly I'm dropping the pentox! Pentox is great and everything, but if I take it during the day I lose focus and short term memory. And if I take it before bed, I don't get a good night sleep.

Also the curiosity that a megadose of Coq10 and Grapeseed Extract working alone might work, is another reason why I want to drop the pentox.

So I'll be you're guinne pig on megadosing these 2 supplements for you, and hopefully have some positive feedback to give you in 5 months time. Though if I find any improvement after a couple of months I'll be sure to report it.

Just remember I have to wait for my packages to arrive (one from america), and I have to cap all that grape seed extract.

Lastly lastly! If it costs me roughly £200-300 for a 5 months supply to cure my peyronie's, then I'm not bothered. It's always worth investing in something that works. But as we know with peyronie's, nothing is certain, there is no cure as of yet, only hints and somethings work, other things don't. So if it doesn't work, I guess I'll be a bit sad, but at least I know my heart health will have increased immensly.

Hope this is of interest to you guys. If you want to discourage me trying this or become immensly critical of this plan, well I'm still going to do it, plus I've bought all the stuff now. Also I'm not saying it's going to work, I have doubts as much as you do, and will reserve my thoughts on it after the experiment is over. But hopefully something good will come out of this experiment, and help others. But like I said, I'm your guinnee pig, so sit back, relax, and don't waste your money, because I'm not recommending anything. But also, I do believe my peyronies was at it's best with grape seed extract. I always remember my penis being soft after taking grape seed extract when usually it would be hard flaccid.

Adios!


RoyHobbs

There has been some talk in this forum about the negative effects vitamin C has on peyronies. Perhaps some other guys can chime in because I can't remember the thread. But you may want to look into it before adding that to your regimen.

But good luck!

funnyfarm

Have you looked at your diet carefully ?  Really the supplements are not bad, but without a good diet, exercise, adequate sleep ect, I don't think you will get the optimum effect.   I am not sure these are really a megadose, but it is generally believed that the lowest dose of the highest quality brand will yield the highest efficacy and least side effects.   Do not be afraid to experiment with different suppliers and dosages, and most importantly be patient.
When you are in tune with the unknown, the known is peaceful.

MtnSurf

Quote from: RoyHobbs on June 25, 2013, 02:41:10 PM
There has been some talk in this forum about the negative effects vitamin C has on peyronies. Perhaps some other guys can chime in because I can't remember the thread. But you may want to look into it before adding that to your regimen.

But good luck!


I had heard in past from some medical sources & nutritionists that high dose vitamin C may be good for reducing inflammation. I've never heard anything good or bad about it in relation to peyronies but would assume it wouldn't hurt. I had an ex GF who took high doses of vitamin C to treat her asthma and swore it worked for her and got her off asthma meds.

MtnSurf

Muffslayer, what makes you think the grape seed extract will help with peyronies? What does it do in your system?

-Thanks

muffslayer

I just remember my penis feeling softer after taking it. To me peyronie's and hard flaccid go hand in hand. If my hard flaccid improves by a supplement, I believe my peyronie's is improving too, or at least it's good for my penis. Hard flaccid improves a lot by massaging trigger points in the pelvis, not sure about peyronie's. I don't have any evidence, that's why I need to try this out, though I won't be able to distinguish between coq10 and grape seed extract on what worked.

One thing I'm trying to gain back is girth. I went from 5" to 4.5". And it has mainly affected the whole of the right side of my penis, and partly the left side. My penis is mostly straight with pentox, but can bend to the right without it. But girth is the main thing I need to regain. My penis has ridges in it as well, a few bumps up and down both sides.

BTW I initially got peyronies by taking oral anabolic steroids and ballooning when trying to enlarge me penis. Then I recovered, then I damaged it again doing penis exercises like jelqing and taking steroids while ballooning again (This was like 3 years after, but it seems like I didn't learn). Now I'm just trying to recover and forget about PE at all. Yes I would love a 5.5 or 6" girth, but I would settle for my original straight 5" girth now.

Steroids + Ballooning = Bigger Penis

Also it seems anything can aggrivate my peyronie's now. T3 thyroid medication made it worse, 20mg of cialis or normal viagra makes it worse, if I smoke I feel some pain (I quit smoking). I don't really take jack crap now when it comes to artificial stuff, but I'm currently in a phase where it seems like anything will aggrevate it. Even certain foods aggrevate it, like bacon, gammon, or cheese.

So I've recovered before to the point where food or cialis never aggrevated it, then I screwed up again trying to get my dick larger, now everything seems to aggrevate it. And I look back at my recovery, and even though I took 300mg of coq10 back then as I do now, my peyronie's is not recovering greatly. Then i remembered I also took grape seed extract. I didn't take gotu kola back then either, so I'm hoping grape seed extract is the key. Anyway my grape seed extract is coming today. I'll take me 6 hours + to cap them all. I might try and cap only 1000, and maybe 1000 next time.

But I'll start taking it tomorrow while I wait for my coq10 to come.

Old Man

Muffslayer:

I am sure that many guys on the forum would like to have a better description of the ballooning you mention in your post below. Also, they might like to know more about the ''trigger points'' in the pelvis area as well. Any good information you can post about this would greatly enhance knowledge to guys who exhibit the same symptoms you have.

Old Man
Age 92. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after
stage four radical prostatectomy in 1995, Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents.
Three more stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries too.

muffslayer

Well ballooning is pretty much a mystery among PE forums, so I doubt I'd be any better at describing it. Neither do I think I completely mastered it either. But basically it's just a new type of masturbation. You use lubricant, for example baby oil, and then you rub the glans and shaft of the penis that is facing you, completely forget about stimulating the other side. That's it. You're then meant to do this for 30m to 2 hours without ejaculating, by bringing you to the point of no return, then stopping while lightly clenching your butt cheeks/tailbone to help dissapate the urgency (don't clench the PC muscle, your penis should not move up and down). Clenching the butt cheek/tailbone is harder to master, but just feel like your clenching, without moving the dick up and down, practice and you'll get there. Ballooning is also not the so called edging where you masturbate normally to the point of no return, then stop. Rather all you stimulation is on the glans and shaft of the penis facing you, but avoid the neck of the glans i.e just below the glans.

Secondly trigger points are some sort of muscle tension. Basically go round with 2-3 fingers pressing on your pelvis hard and massaging it in a circular motion. If you feel a sharp pain or dull pain/numbness, then massage that area, and come back to it the next day, or a weeks time, depending on how sore it is afterward. For example I've found pain right next to both sides of the penis in my pelvis, so not the actualy penis, but the ligaments connecting to it. Also where my lowerabs meet the pelvis. Just go down to your pelvis with 2 fingers, and anywhere it hurts, massage it. You might think obviously poking your muscles like this is going to hurt, but trust me, it's not meant to. After you massage that trigger point, depending on how bad it is, it will eventually go away. When you first massage it, you might be bruised or tender the next day, so rest from that point, let it recover, and do it again. Eventually you will massage, and there will be no pain there at all.

Also if you people want to do your back, get a foam roller. And for any other body part, those rollers with a ball in it that spins round.

Not sure if massaging trigger points will help peyronie's, but it will help hard flaccid.

muffslayer

Ok, so I underestimated the time it would take to cap 2000 capsules. It took me 10 hours of continuous capping, no breaks, except going to the toilet, but they are all now done thankfully; but next time I will be buying a new capping device that caps 100 at a time rather than 24, and you don't have to put each cap in the hole individually, but can pour them on and rattle the tray and they go in the holes automatically (saw this off ebay for £64). Anyway 2000/6 = 333 days. So 6 capsules a day should last me 11 months, and thats if I always take 6 capsules every day without breaks. But I will be giving my mum 1 a day to help her with her blood pressure (she doesn't know I'm taking it for peyronie's), and I might cut down to 4 capsules a day since 4 is already a lot of GSE. Still haven't got my coq10 yet.

I found these:
Health and longevity benefits of plant polyphenols – focus grape seed extract | AGING SCIENCES – Anti-Aging Firewalls
Grape Seed Extract Offers Many Benefits
Grape seed extract news, articles and information:
Grape seed extract enhances eNOS expression an... [Cell Biol Int. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

It seems like GSE has a range of benefits, but one in particular which is also coq10's strong point, is it helps improve mitochondria function. Could you imagine improving mitochondria function was the answer for peyronie's (just making a casual link because coq10 does this, and is proven to help peyronies), I'd be cured with this combination in high doses, but who knows, things are never that simple.

The other things GSE help with is lowering blood pressure, antioxident protection (also these antioxidants pass the blood brain barrier easily for neuroprotection), enchances nitric oxide production (maybe a cheaper and safer way than taking low dose cialis/viagra?), reduce heart disease and cancers (lung, skin, prostate), protects liver, better wound healing, skin and blood vessles improvement, helps demntia and alzheimers, and probably several other things.

I've taken 100's of different supplements over the years, most of them you won't notice too much of anything, just a hope that they're doing something good. So I don't expect anything extraordinary with GSE, I'll just assume it's doing it's job, and probably doing it slowly. Whatever the case, I'm come not to pin my hopes on many supplements or one magic supplement, they are great for maintenance and helping with stuff, but most super supplements or foods aren't the solution to all your health problems, especially something as complex as peyronies. For example pentox for peyronie's is really helpful, but comes with the side effects of disturbed sleep and loss of focus, and seems to be ineffective at long term low doses, for example 1 tablet a day which I and others were taking, thinking we could minimize the side effects and still heal.

Anyway I don't know why I'm blabbing on. I think GSE will help with my general health a lot, but whether it will help with a problem as complex with peyronie's we'll have to find out. Also I've got a load of supplements already prepared in my pill boxes, and since I'm not just going to chuck them, it's going to take 20 days or so before they're all empty and I can fill them up with my new supplement regime; but from tomorrow I will start taking 1 GSE a day until I can fill these pill boxes with the new regime making it easy to take, if that makes sense.

Bye.

funnyfarm

Why not just add a teaspoon of the coq10 to meals or shakes for each dose ?
When you are in tune with the unknown, the known is peaceful.

muffslayer

If you read the first post, I bought the coq10 in 600mg capsule form, it's not a powder.

But the GSE is a powder, and if you've ever tried to take GSE as a power, you will know it is some of the foulest stuff in the world! Even worse is it doesn't mix well but stays at the top of the glass and then sticks to your throat when you try an drink or shot it. Trust me, I will be able to stick to a regime 100% more if GSE is in the form of capsules. And no I'm not a p~$$% when it comes to powders, I can take several not great tasting powders (citrulline, alcar), but for GSE I'll stick to making capsules.

funnyfarm

Thanks for correcting me.  The only other things I could recommend would be making an infusion (tea) and see if it dissolves.  If it does not then you could make an alcohol tincture (ie mix with vodka) and then take a teaspoon as the dose, however they will not taste good, but you can add glycerine to improve the flavor.
When you are in tune with the unknown, the known is peaceful.

muffslayer

Wow I typed in mitochondria and peyronies in Google, and the ALCAR study comes up! Seems as though they think ALCAR may have helped peyronies by increasing mitochondria. And we know coq10 has been proven to help peyronies, and it's biggest function is increasing mitochondria in the cells. And we also know GSE increase mitochondria, and my anecdotal experience feels as though it helped with my hard flaccid.

I think we should be looking into supplements that ramp up, help, or increase the efficiency of mitochondria, and see if this has a postive effect on peyronies. I'm writting these thoughts down now so I don't forget them.

muffslayer

One thing I noticed with the GSE (Grape Seed Extract), is that my veins become very vascular. This was before my coq10 arrived, I took a few GSE. And now I've been on a couple of days coq10 and GSE, I've noticed I'm getting erections a lot when I think of erotic thoughts.

If I had to say anything, it would definitely be the GSE, just because I observed the vascular veins a few days prior when I didn't have my coq10 yet. Also the stufy I posted below saying GSE increases Nitric Oxide expression.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I'm amazed it has such a significant effect. I just assumed yes it enhances it, but it can't be that much. You find out things like a certain vitamin does so many different effects, but are weak, and generally good for, rather than noticable.

Also you have to remember my doses are huge, so this observation is probably biased. You could buy standard GSE capsules which are lower dose, and it has no effect on your veins or erections at all.

Also I'm not following a strict 3 times a day. Sometimes it's 2, maybe 1. But I think as long as I'm consistent it will be alright. For example if I took only 1 of my premade selection of pills, I'll still be getting 1200mg of CoQ10 and 800-1000mg roughly of GSE, plus the gotu, vitamin c, and other stuff.

Also I forgot to say but I have currently been successful at fasting every other day since the 1/07/2013. So I've only taken my formula on 2 days (the 2nd, and today 4th), because on the 1st, and 3rd I didn't eat or take any supplements. So fasting has loads of benefits as well to my health and could be contributing to the responsive erections. Plus if i keep this up as a lifestyle, I'll loose the 30lbs I need to loose, and double how long my supplements will last (Coq10 would last for a year, and GSE would last for 2 years!).

Also my penis does feel softer, less inflammed or hurting.

Anyway that's all I've got for you.

muffslayer

I forgot to mention GSE has research to say it may inhibit aromatase, i.e. the thing that converts testosterone into estrogen in your body. So I may have an increase in testoserone, and lowered my estrogen, which could contribute partly to the erections.

Grape Seed Extract inhibits aromatase

muffslayer

I was looking for peoples reviews on GSE and it's effects on them, and found this brand.

Amazon.com: Olympian Labs Grape Seed Extract 400mg, 100 capsules bottle: Health & Personal Care

According to the reviews, and myself, it does seem to be much cheaper than other brands for the dosage (400mg).

Just take an example of the NOW Brand, it's only 250mg, with 90 capsules, and only 4$ cheaper.

Amazon.com: NOW Foods Grape Seed Extract 250mg, 90 Vcaps: Health & Personal Care

Obviously the Olympian brand is much higher value to money, and near my dosages.

I just posted that here just incase anyone was thinking of trying GSE for a decent price, and didn't want to cap it themselves (which is a huge pain in the ass).

Also there are some amazing experinces in the reviews. But one that caught my eye, which I think might help our problem a bit, is someone said it helped him with hi broken capillaries. I'll paste the review below, it's from the olymbian brand amazon product page (the first link).

Quote
Appears to be helping heal broken capillaries!

Unfortunately, most of my life I never found results in holistic treatment... until lately, and as I've gotten older. I'm adding this product to my list of things that actually worked for their intended purpose, which in my case recently was an outbreak of noticeable broken capillaries on my inner ankles near the ankle bone and heels, also on my face which in the past my dermatologist had no lasting or reasonable treatment for.

Since taking grape seed extract only a short time I am seeing capillaries heal! I sought information through Google to see if by chance there was improvement in cures for this unattractive and embarrassing condition, only to find people claiming Grape Seed healed them. Naturally I was skeptical, but having no other solutions decided to give this a try. To my amazement I am already seeing a difference. It appears to be working on red veins in the upper thighs, but I have yet to see radical change in larger and darker veins. It's still early and I now have hope.

So far I'm using four natural remedies that have been working surprisingly well, and they are:
1) Glucosamine chondroitin complex (1500mg Glucosamine, 1200mg Chondroitin for cartilage injured knee)
2) Valerian Extract (6000mg for severe muscle spasm, Occipital Neuralgia/migraine) This high dose I've only found in Botanic Choice Liquid Extract, and use Planitary Herbals Easy Sleep 900mg time release for continuous relief.
3) Culturelle Probiotic (for digestive health/IBS)
4) Grape Seed Extract (400mg for capillary damage)

I'm finally becoming a believer that not everything we need to treat ourselves must come from a prescription or through advice of a doctor at a premium cost of office visits and chemical pharmaceuticals. Only one thing I found useful years ago was Golden Seal Root which we can no longer purchase OTC thanks to our concerned and caring medical experts proclaiming it a prescription level blood purifier. Your results may vary, but it's worth taking a shot, and this time not from the doctor's office! It's funny how I started out in life working for a health food store only to discover in later life what actually helps and isn't yet another fad or trend, or way for some to make money off the ill for large amounts of money. Good luck to you all, and na zdrowie (good health)!

I'm just thinking anything that helps with veins or capillaries is helping peyronies or my penis in general, just my belief, probably true, but obviously the complexity with peyronie's, scars, and what not, I'm not going to say for sure, but I believe it might help our condition.

So if any of your guys wanted to try a megadose of GSE for a month, take 3 a day of the olympian brand (1200mg of GSE), 1 with each meal, and you might be getting some of the erection and vasularity effects I'm getting with GSE.

Thisismyusername

I heard that Dr. Lue sometimes prescribes coQ10 to help with pain.   I'm trying to figure out how to properly add coQ10 to the pentox and L-arginine that I am already taking.  Should I take 300 mg just once per day?  Or should I split the dose throughout the day?  Does the brand of coQ10 matter?  What are the recommended brands?  Can anyone confirm that Dr. Lue does indeed prescribe coQ10 to some of his patients?  Does anyone have a link that details his treatment plan? 

james1947

Thisismyusername

We have a debate regarding CoQ10
Coenzyme Q10/Ubiquinone - Ubiquinol - Peyronies Society Forums
Take your time and read it, you will find all the answers.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Craig

To save you some time, you should probably take the cheaper CoQ10/Ubiquinone if you're under 40, and the much more expensive Ubiquinol if you're over 40. I too just restarted taking CoQ10 (I'm under 40) and am interested in what brands you should take. I know a lot of retailers like Walmart sell a special CoQ10 in a big black box that claims to be better than other CoQ10s in a lot of different ways, and am wondering if the extra cost is worth it. It's $28 for 120 100mg pills at Walmart.

howcanthisbe

Hi,

I am 30 years old and think I have slight Peyronies. I want to treat this with Ubiquinol as I heard this works. Any success here and how much should I take? Is this safe and it will not make it worse right? Thanks :)

skunkworks

Hopefully george99 will chime in here as he has read a lot about it and used it for quite a while now. But the below study and huge discussion thread on this forum should get you started:

Coenzyme Q10/Ubiquinone - Ubiquinol - Peyronies Society Forums

Safety and efficacy of coenzyme Q10 ... [Int J Impot Res. 2010 Sep-Oct] - PubMed - NCBI

This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

[url=http://goo.gl/IOBhJr]Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

George999

Ubiquinol certainly worked for me.  It afforded me very obvious benefit on top of what I was already achieving with Pentoxifylline.  I have since discontinued Pentoxifylline, but continue taking 300mg per day of Ubiquinol.  The two operated by different pathways and I found them to be complementary.  Neither are a cure, but both offer significant benefit.  The sooner one starts taking them, the better.  That's my opinion after close to a decade experience with Peyronie's.  - George

howcanthisbe

Thanks guys. George how did it help you? I have a slight dented area on the left side of penis. Been that way for nearly 7 years. Think it could help? I think my erection is 80% of what it use to be before this all started. Thanks

howcanthisbe

Guys Ubiquinol cannot make you taller can it? I have read this can make you taller. I am already nearly 6'6 so I cannot get any taller lol. I am 30 years old and I know some say its impossible to grow taller at this age but I disagree. I think I grew an inch in the last 1-2 years some how. But I am worried this could increase my height. Am I being paranoid?

Old Man

howcan:

My advice is to get into pro basketball if your are growing taller! My wife taught a basketball player from Europe in a local college piano lessons to help with his coordination when playing in competition games. He was told to do this by his coach.

Just kidding about the pro thing, but don't worry about how tall you get if you see success from any therapy for Peyronies Disease.

Old Man
Age 92. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after
stage four radical prostatectomy in 1995, Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents.
Three more stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries too.

George999

Ubiquinol helped me by dramatically reducing pain, and in the past pain had always been followed by physical changes like bending, shrinking, dents, etc.  Once the pain stopped, the physical deterioration stopped.  This was enough evidence for me that the research showing benefit from CoQ10 is accurate and that CoQ10 is, indeed, effective in treating Peyronie's.  People make all sorts of claims about CoQ10 and other things, mainly because they want to sell them.  I don't pay any attention to ANYTHING but actual academic research.  And academic research ONLY supports the use of a few treatments and CoQ10/Ubiquinol is one of those.  All the stuff about enzymes and herbs is just marketing and has no evidence whatsoever to support it.  I don't have either money or time to waste on that stuff.  I only use stuff that works.  - George

MikeSmith0

George, ubiquinol helped me with pain WITH the addition of ALA (alpha lipoic acid) together...that was the magic combo for me.  What's your thoughts on ALA?  Are there any other supplements or pharmaceuticals you are taking these days?  I remember you had done the best research into all of this in the past & I followed a lot of it.  After a while, my stomach started getting irritated & I was spending too much money & not sure what I was doing to myself.  I had way too much in my medicine cabinet & would like to just take what actually is anti-fibrotic, anti-inflammatory, helps pain & circulation, lowers oxidative stress, and promotes wound healing.  I'm thinking the best cocktail these days would be:

- Ubiquinol
- ALA
- Vit D, E
- Arginine
- L-acetyl-carnitine
- Calcium / magnesium
- zinc / copper
- Fish oil

Rx
- Pentox
- Cialis or viagra - low dose
- Accolate if tolerable w/ LFTs periodically (not recommended for anyone else - totally theoretical & has liver risks)

Throw out
- Bromelain
- Milk Thistle

Not for Peyronies Disease but taking for eye health anyway
- Lutein
- Bilberry

Other

- Wheat free (see the book "wheat belly" about how wheat promotes inflammation and screws up many body processes)
- Low glycemic diet
- Soy free
- Not sure where you stand on dairy

emasculated

Is there anything new about Ubiquinol / Coq10? I have read this thread a little and have noticed that not many have reported success alone from coq10. Probably due to the fact that many take in combination with other stuff so they can't know the specific effect it may or may not have. Anyone wish to comment who thinks this specifically has helped him?
"Without health life is not life; it is only a state of languor and suffering - an image of death."

james1947

QuoteCoQ10...Probably due to the fact that many take in combination with other stuff so they can't know the specific effect
This is the point.
It will help you regarding your lost of energy:
Ubiquinol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And a lot of information on the forum.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

emasculated

I just had a look at the wiki page: Coenzyme Q10 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All the evidence for the listed conditions seems to point strongly to the fact that coq10 is pretty useless in these cases.
And there were some cases where studies where pushed that are flawed in methodology and suspected to be financed by manufacturers. I wonder how reliable in the light of this is the Safarinejad study.
"Without health life is not life; it is only a state of languor and suffering - an image of death."

james1947

The Safarinejad study is about Pentox.
How it connects to CoQ10?

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

emasculated

"Without health life is not life; it is only a state of languor and suffering - an image of death."