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Author Topic: Coenzyme Q10/Ubiquinone - Ubiquinol  (Read 142386 times)

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newguy

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Coenzyme Q10/Ubiquinone - Ubiquinol
« on: August 20, 2010, 03:54:55 PM »

Quote
Safety and efficacy of coenzyme Q(10) supplementation in early chronic Peyronie's disease: a double-blind, placebo-controlled randomized study.

Private Practice of Urology and Andrology, Tehran, Iran.

Abstract
No oral medication has proved to be clearly beneficial for Peyronie's disease (Peyronies Disease). We investigated the safety and efficacy of coenzyme Q(10) (CoQ(10)) supplementation in patients with early chronic Peyronies Disease. We conducted a randomized clinical trial of 186 patients with chronic early Peyronies Disease. Patients were randomly assigned to either 300 mg CoQ(10) daily (n=93) or similar regimen of placebo (n=93) for 24 weeks. Erectile function (EF), pain during erection, plaque volume, penile curvature and treatment satisfaction using patient versions of the Erectile Dysfunction Inventory of Treatment Satisfaction (EDITS) questionnaire were assessed at baseline and every 4 weeks during study period. EF was assessed using International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF-5), and pain was evaluated with a visual analog scale (VAS, 0-10). All patients also responded to a Global Assessment Question, 'Has the treatment you have been taking during this study improved your erections?' After 24 weeks, mean IIEF-5 score, mean VAS score and mean EDITS score improved significantly in patients receiving CoQ(10) (all P<0.01). Mean plaque size and mean penile curvature degree were decreased in the CoQ(10) group, whereas a slight increase was noted in the placebo group (both P=0.001). Mean index of IIEF-5 in 24-week treatment period was 17.8+/-2.7 in the CoQ(10) group and 8.8+/-1.5 in the placebo group (P=0.001). Of the patients in CoQ(10) group, 11 (13.6%) had disease progression vs 46 (56.1%) in placebo group (P=0.01). In patients with early chronic Peyronies Disease, CoQ(10) therapy leads plaque size and penile curvature reduction and improves EF.International Journal of Impotence Research advance online publication, 19 August 2010; doi:10.1038/ijir.2010.20.

I saw this CoEnyme Q10 study today. The results look promising, but there hasn't been much mention of Q10 before, so I'm a bit skeptical. Of course, it may well be that in the early stages of the condition a variety of treatments are at their most useful, and that Coenzyme Q10 is one of those. At any rate, it's worth further studies being carried out on CoQ10.
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GS

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2010, 04:31:34 PM »

I was taking Co Q 10 on a regular basis before I even got Peyronies Disease.  I still take it every day.

So, I wouldn't put too much hope in it being anything too beneficial for any of us.

GS
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2010, 09:41:03 PM »

300 mg per day is a LOT of CoQ10.  With the price of CoQ10 what it is, I doubt that very many people are taking anywhere near that much.  50mg is typical of what I see people taking.  I am currently taking 100mg and as a result of this study will probably bump it up.  Interestingly, my doctor just suggested that I bump it up as well.  The results of the Iranian study could WELL have been dose dependent as dose dependency is typical with CoQ10.  CoQ10 is typically poorly absorbed so that is another factor.  But that study is VERY impressive.  I am certainly going to take action as a result of it.  - George
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10 and Metoprolol etc.
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2010, 08:16:58 PM »

Well by golly!  Some interesting stuff out there on the Internet about CoQ10.

Quote from: al-hikmah.org

Some evidence indicates that CoQ10 supplements may offer benefit for individuals taking medications that interfere with the body's production of CoQ10, or partially block its action. It has been suggested (but not proven) that these effects on CoQ10 may play a role in the known side effects of these treatments, and that taking CoQ10 supplements might help. The best evidence is for the cholesterol-lowering drugs in the statin family, such as lovastatin (Mevacor), simvastatin (Zocor), and pravastatin (Pravachol). For several other categories of drugs, the evidence that they interfere with CoQ10 is provocative but less than solid. These include oral diabetes drugs (especially glyburide, phenformin, and tolazamide), beta-blockers (specifically propranolol, metoprolol, and alprenolol), antipsychotic drugs in the phenothiazine family, tricyclic antidepressants, methyldopa, hydrochlorothiazide, clonidine, and hydralazine.


If the above is to be believed, one could perceive that CoQ10 which is essential to human metabolism can be blocked to some extent by a long list of prescription medications.  How very interesting!  Some of us around here have suspected that medications we were taking when we developed Peyronie's had at least some role in ending up with this disease.  Could CoQ10 be a, if not the, missing link?  Could the drugs we ARE TAKING and MUST TAKE to stay healthy be AGGRAVATING our Peyronie's by shutting down our CoQ10?  Well, add this together with the Iranian study!  I think it gets rather interesting.  - George
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newguy

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2010, 08:40:45 PM »

Thanks for the additional information George. At present I'm keeping an open mind about Coenzyme Q10 rather than getting too excited about it. That said, I'd love to get hold of the full study to see if we can gleam any insights from it. Ideally we'll see another similiar study carried out using 300mg of Q10 or thereabouts in peyronie's patients, to see if we see something similiar takes place. Then I feel that it would start to look like we have a new and very useful supplement at our disposal. We're not exactly awash with information on successful peyronie's treatments, so I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for trying this alongside pentox and the like. I would think that if another positive study comes along Levine and co will take note.
 
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slowandsteady

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2010, 11:14:07 PM »

Statins are known for depleting CoQ10 (PMID 15942122), and doctors are known for not suggesting that they do anything about it.

I like the ubiquinol form of CoQ10 as it's much more bioavailable (PMID 16919858, wiki)
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2010, 11:46:22 PM »

I've long suspected that Metoprolol was somehow involved in both my plantar faciitis AND my Peyronie's problems.  I have sort of attributed the whole thing to effect on blood flow.  NOW I suspect the real link may be CoQ10 depletion or obstruction.   CoQ10 is a basic essential nutrient.  If it gets compromised, the effects are non-specific and all over the map similar to what happens with Vitamin D insufficiency.  And like with Vitamin D and Peyronie's itself, doctors like to ignore it.  Just don't worry about it and everything will be OK.
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jayhawk

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2010, 08:43:38 AM »

Interesting, I developed my Peyronies about a year after I began taking Lipitor. I always suspected the satins I am taking  had something to do with this condition. I read a interesting article by Melchior Meijer on  this very issue, he states that Satins deplete CO-Q10  which in some case can cause heart failure and a cascade of other health issues. www.thincs.org/melchior1.htm.  I will try to get a link to the article, several pages long involving studies by Dr. Peter Langsjoen. He stated satins block enzyme HMG CoA-reductase.
This emzyme is responsible for the production of a substance called 'Mevalonate'  which it turns out is the precursor of both cholesterol and co-enzyme10. Anyway some interesting stuff.
Jayhawk
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Old Man

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2010, 09:04:24 AM »

jayhawk:

In your post number 7 below, do you mean to say "statins" in lieu of satins?? I have been taking statins for over 6 years now and need to know if I am at risk for any further heart damage.

Old Man
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Age 92. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995, Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents.
Three more stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction.
Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

jayhawk

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2010, 09:16:59 AM »

Sorry
Old Man,
"statins" is correct! You might want to do some research on this drug, the effects according to this article are even more pronounced as you age.
jayhawk 
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jackp

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2010, 10:00:01 AM »

I did some research on statins when I was having problems with them. Vytoirn got my total cholesterol level down to 89. This reeks havoc on your hormone system. For testosterone to flow properly in your system your cholesterol level should not drop below 150. 99% of doctors do not know this, I had to educate my heart doctor at the time. 

I can not take any statins because of the side effects, I do take 1000 mg of Niacin at night with a baby aspirin 30 minutes before. My total is now 159.

Hope this helps.

Jackp
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Old Man

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2010, 10:38:48 AM »

JackP:

WOW! Below 150 is low, huh? I must be in the "danger zone" as mine runs about 125 all the time and my heart doc says he wants it to be around 100. Is it time for me to get another cardiologist that is more up to date??

Old Man
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Age 92. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995, Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents.
Three more stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction.
Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2010, 11:04:46 AM »

The people at Life Extension are pretty much the pros on things like cholesterol levels.  Their recommendations as to ideal levels are:

Total Cholesterol:  160-180mg/dL
LDL:  50-99mg/dL
HDL:  50-60mg/dL

Contrary to the belief of many in the medical profession, cholesterol is NOT toxic waste.  Cholesterol is an important substance that the body uses for all sorts of essential bodily functions.  The slash and burn approach to heart health has all sorts of very negative unintended consequences that can reek havoc with a persons general health.
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2010, 11:22:13 AM »

CoQ10 is essential for mitochondrial health.  Mitochondria are the cellular components that provide energy to the cells through the burning of fat and carbohydrates.  You REALLY DON'T want to mess with this process by interfering with CoQ10 metabolism.  And yet that is EXACTLY what a whole string of widely used medications do.  And few patients who take these medications supplement with CoQ10 to avoid these problems and most doctors prefer to ignore the issue.    Those patients who do take CoQ10 and are aware of the problem are probably not taking enough of it due to its high cost.  It was the Japanese who did the initial research on CoQ10 and to this day most if not all CoQ10 is produced by Japanese pharmaceutical companies.  It is significantly expensive, but the health effects of not having enough of it can be insidious.  Attached is the article that Jay was referring to.
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newguy

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2010, 12:03:33 PM »

It certainly seems like this has provoked a healthy debate. There are lots of posts at the ImmInst which question the logic of taking statins without COQ10 (http://www.imminst.org/forum/topic/19828-the-hidden-dangers-of-statin-drugs/). Perhaps there is an alarmist element to some of the input, so that might need to be factored in. Still, it's important to look at all angles and thought concerning statins. Even statin like supplements (containing red yeast rice) tend to contain COQ10 too (http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Red-Yeast-Rice-600-mg-With-CoQ10-30-mg-120-Vcaps/3336?at=0), so you'd think that for people on prescription treatrments they would get to here about the COQ10 depleting side of statins. A few studies link COQ10 deficiency to chronic fatigue and heart problems: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20010505

Positive effects of COQ10: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19932599

COQ10 Levels pre before and after statin use: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19649137

Management strategies for statin intolerant patients: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20628837
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2010, 12:24:46 PM »

I think that CoQ10 has been neglected around here in the past because it has been very much off topic.  However, now, with the Iranian study connecting Peyronie's to CoQ10 (something I would have never guessed), things are different.  But then when you take a second look, tissue that can not adequately supply itself with a source of energy will simply atrophy.  And that sounds a lot like what happens with Peyronie's.  One thing I can tell you for sure is that a little over a week into 400mg of CoQ10 a day, I am seeing the improvement in my erections.  There is more girth and less bend.  The improvement has been noticeable.  So I am looking forward to continuing the CoQ10 along with Pentoxifylline, of course.  I really do believe that this discovery may bring the cure for some guys.  I think it is that much of a breakthrough.  Lets hope.  There have been so many disappointments in the past.  CoQ10, who would have guessed?  Obviously somebody did, because the Iranians put it to the test.
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GS

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2010, 01:57:06 PM »

Very interesting George,

As I stated a couple of weeks ago, I've been taking CoQ10 for years and was taking it before I got Peyronies Disease, so I didn't give it much validity as a treatment for Peyronies Disease.  Your post makes me think I will up my dosage and see if I see any improvement.

Obviously, stranger things have happened and maybe some obscure drug or vitamin will end up saving all of us.

GS
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zariche

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2010, 02:12:46 PM »

What about someone at my age of 22?  Is it possible that Coenzyme Q10 can be deficient due to a poor an unvaried diet or that it's possible to be genetically susceptible to low CoQ10 levels?  At my age I am not taking any medication, much less any medication that would suppress my Q10 levels.  Obviously everyone is different and I may fit in another category, but I am curious if that this could be an issue for someone like me and that it may help if I was to explore the issue.

Is there anyway to test such levels?  My Urologist appointment is finally here, I got to go in tomorrow at 3.  I doubt he will know anything of Q10, but I may ask him to see what response I get.  

Also would there be any possible adverse effects for me trying Q10 in the future? 
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newguy

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2010, 03:43:15 PM »


Zariche - As Tim previously stated in a different thread, it may be that "this disease is really a collection of varying diseases with different etiologies and probably different treatments". Factoring that in, it's important to try to cover all angles until we know more. Personally, I think treatments should be given a good few months to decide whether or not they are useful. I've stuck with pentox for quite some time, and I feel that I benefited from that. Perhaps coq10 deficiency plays a role in some and not other. Perhaps the study is flawed and it's not useful for peyronie's at all. It's hard to know what to think as the study is out of leftfield and not something I'd previously considered. It's hard to argue against people giving it a try though, at the doses stated. Those newly diagnosed especially. If we begin to feel that they are benefiting, then it may be that we've stumbled upon something very useful, and it will strengthen the existing arsenal of treatments.

CoQ10 is currently being used as part of a Phase 3 Parkinsons trial (at doses of 1200mg, and 2400mg), so I would think that 300mg a day isn't harmful. In iherb right now you can buy 600mg capsules, so although high 300mg seems to be a much less than some are taking.


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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2010, 09:36:28 PM »

I want to make it clear that I really agree with what newguy is saying here.  I believe that there are most likely multiple metabolic routes to Peyronie's, multiple factors that combine to result in the disease.  And like Tim, I believe that not all factors are present in any one individual.  While it is possible that someone like zariche, for example, has a CoQ10 deficiency, I really think it is not very likely and I do not think that it is necessary to have a CoQ10 deficiency in order to contract Peyronie's.  In such a case additional CoQ10 would NOT be harmful, but there is no guarantee that it would be helpful although it might be.  Everything about Peyronie's is full of unknowns.  What is known is that CoQ10 helped some, BUT NOT ALL, participants in the Iranian study.  I am attaching a PDF of that abstract in case anyone would like an easy way to save it and print it out.  I think taking CoQ10 ESPECIALLY makes sense for those of us with cardiovascular issues that might also benefit from CoQ10 OR increasing the amount of CoQ10 we currently taking.  The older we get the more suppressed our CoQ10 levels become until they get depressed to almost nothing.  Additionally, it would especially make sense for those of us at any age who are on long term medication.  And we must not forget that in terms of evidence and consensus, Pentoxifylline is THE number one front line ORAL TREATMENT for Peyronie's.  In other words, start there first if at all possible.  After that there is Acetyl L Carnitine and, now, CoQ10.  ADDITIONALLY, we need to keep in mind that there are very effective alternatives/adjuncts to oral treatments such as traction, VED, etc.  So, while I really want the word to get out about CoQ10, as newguy points out, we need to keep things in perspective.  - George
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newguy

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2010, 10:26:34 PM »

I'm going to send off for some towards the end of the week, just to give it a trial. I'd rather be at the frontline or anything vaguely positive. I can understand some people sitting this one out though until more in known, or perhpas even thinking that it might not be useful. Now that the study is out there though, we can at least think that others will eventually follow. If they are positive too, then we will have to sit up and take notice. If they aren't, then it's back to the drawing board. I agree with George that for those taking statins and certain other drugs, which deplete CoQ10, there is good reasoning to suggest that it may be a good idea to take CoQ10.
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newguy

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2010, 11:41:00 PM »

My CoQ10 still hasn't arrived, but really it should be here any day now (unless it's been lost in the post). Anymore updates from those currently taking it, or is it a bit soon to even start thinking along those lines?
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2010, 11:03:18 AM »

Its definitely making a difference for me.  Before I started to take it along with the Pentox, I would get sore if I did certain things.  Now, I don't any more.  To me, that demonstrates a lower susceptibility to inflammation.  I am currently taking 400mg of ubiquinone.  I am going to upgrade that to 400mg of ubiquinol (= 3200mg of ubiquinone) in a few days.  I am also noting that the scarred tissue is slowly becoming softer and the remaining nodules are softening and shrinking a bit.  But I think that is significant for only using CoQ10 for a few weeks.  The best part of all is no side effects.  The down side, of course, is that the stuff is expensive.  For me, an additional benefit is that it has helped lower my blood pressure significantly as well.  Double benefit.  - George
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Farinthesouth

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2010, 01:25:11 PM »

I´m currently taking L-Arginine (2 mg/day) is possible to add Q10 without any side effect??
Thanks
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George999

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Fred22

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2010, 12:50:49 PM »

  How about this one, George?  Scroll down to the ubiquinol.  Looks like a pretty good deal.  Is the PP OK?
http://www.puritan.com/pages/iq.asp?SearchText=ubiquinol+co+q10&x=13&y=22
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slowandsteady

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2010, 04:20:05 PM »

Here are the 200 mg ubiquinol offerings at iherb.

namecostquantitycost per capsule
Healthy Origins, Ubiquinol, 200 mg, 150 Softgels126.851500.85
Healthy Origins, Ubiquinol, 200 mg, 60 Softgels52.85600.88
Now Foods, Ubiquinol, Extra Strengtd, 200 mg, 60 Softgels57.36600.96
Jarrow Formulas, QH-absorb, 200 mg, 30 Softgels34.97301.17
Bluebonnet Nutrition, Ubiquinol, 200 mg, 60 Softgels71.96601.20

Yeah, a bit pricey. Cheap though, if it works. ;)
s&s
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Fred22

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2010, 08:57:48 PM »

Here are the 200 mg ubiquinol offerings at iherb.

namecostquantitycost per capsule
Healthy Origins, Ubiquinol, 200 mg, 150 Softgels126.851500.85
Healthy Origins, Ubiquinol, 200 mg, 60 Softgels52.85600.88
Now Foods, Ubiquinol, Extra Strengtd, 200 mg, 60 Softgels57.36600.96
Jarrow Formulas, QH-absorb, 200 mg, 30 Softgels34.97301.17
Bluebonnet Nutrition, Ubiquinol, 200 mg, 60 Softgels71.96601.20

Yeah, a bit pricey. Cheap though, if it works. ;)
s&s


Did you check any other vendors besides iHerb?   I really wanted to get the 100 mg. because I was planning on taking 300 mg per day, but the 200 mg. options on iHerb are cheaper than the 100 mg buy 2 get 4 free deal on Puritan's Pride (if my math is correct...terrible at math).....Fred
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2010, 09:11:11 PM »

Most, if not all, Ubiquinol is produced by ONE Japanese pharmaceutical company, Kaneka.  See -> http://www.kanekaqh.com/ for more info including a list of vendors.  The vendors repackage the Kaneka product, sometimes adding their own proprietary synergists.  So when you pay extra, you are either paying for nothing or you are paying for additional ingredients included to enhance the Ubiquinol product.

Kaneka is also the major producer of Ubiquinone.  See -> http://www.kanekaq10.com/index.htm for more info.

For the difference between Ubiquinol and the far less expensive Ubiquinone see -> http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/jan2007_report_coq10_01.htm  Note that younger guys might be wasting their money on Ubiquinol since younger bodies are still able to convert Ubiquinone to Ubiquinol very effectively.  For those of us who are older however (over 40), Ubiquinol is really the only way to go.

  - George
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Fred22

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2010, 01:08:10 PM »

Most, if not all, Ubiquinol is produced by ONE Japanese pharmaceutical company, Kaneka.  See -> http://www.kanekaqh.com/ for more info including a list of vendors.  The vendors repackage the Kaneka product, sometimes adding their own proprietary synergists.  So when you pay extra, you are either paying for nothing or you are paying for additional ingredients included to enhance the Ubiquinol product.

Kaneka is also the major producer of Ubiquinone.  See -> http://www.kanekaq10.com/index.htm for more info.

For the difference between Ubiquinol and the far less expensive Ubiquinone see -> http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/jan2007_report_coq10_01.htm  Note that younger guys might be wasting their money on Ubiquinol since younger bodies are still able to convert Ubiquinone to Ubiquinol very effectively.  For those of us who are older however (over 40), Ubiquinol is really the only way to go.

  - George

So it's OK to just go with the best deal you can find on the ubiquinol?  I was looking at the list that S&S posted below.  Are those all OK or would you recommend one over the other?  I know you're taking the Life Extension brand, but if I can get by for a bit less than that and still get a good quality product, that's what I'm looking for.....Fred
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slowandsteady

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2010, 01:27:16 PM »

Healthy Origins has the cheapest 100 mg on iHerb too. All of the ubiquinol comes from the same source, as George wrote. I have started taking mine with d-limonene that I get separately.

The Puritan's pride deal you mentioned comes out slightly ahead of the Heathy Origins on iHerb. If you in the iHerb VIP program though, you get an additional 10% off (12% for orders over $120, etc), tipping the scales to iHerb for me.
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newguy

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2010, 02:37:37 PM »

Healthy Origins has the cheapest 100 mg on iHerb too. All of the ubiquinol comes from the same source, as George wrote. I have started taking mine with d-limonene that I get separately.

The Puritan's pride deal you mentioned comes out slightly ahead of the Heathy Origins on iHerb. If you in the iHerb VIP program though, you get an additional 10% off (12% for orders over $120, etc), tipping the scales to iHerb for me.

I went for the healthy origins option too. Unfortunately I opted for the International Airmail option (instead of DHL, which I normally use), as the site suggests that it might reduce customs and VAT charges. It still hasn't returned up after 2 weeks though. I'll give it another two and assume that if it hasn't turned up by then it must be lost in the mail :(. I reordered today using DHL and added Magnesium malate too. They'll hopefully arrive in a few days and I can add these to my current regimen.
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2010, 06:34:34 PM »

Another source of Ubiquinol is here -> http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU377/ItemDetail?n=160
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Fred22

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2010, 02:43:25 PM »

Another source of Ubiquinol is here -> http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU377/ItemDetail?n=160

This beats the Puritan's Pride price by a few bucks (although I haven't checked the shipping for either).  Is the Swanson of equal quality?  I expect it would be if it all supposedly comes from the same place?...Fred
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slowandsteady

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2010, 09:16:41 AM »

George, any thought that, for whatever reason, coenzyme Q10 might be more effective than ubiquinol? I haven't had much in the way of improvements after a week at 200 mg ubiquinol.
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2010, 11:41:17 AM »

George, any thought that, for whatever reason, coenzyme Q10 might be more effective than ubiquinol? I haven't had much in the way of improvements after a week at 200 mg ubiquinol.

Ubiquinol is the active component.  When you take Ubiquinone instead, your body converts it into Ubiquinol.  When you take Ubiquinol there is no need for conversion in the body.  It is analogous to beta-carotene (plain old Q10) and Vitamin A (Ubiquinol).  Younger people thus will do just as well with the less expensive Ubiquinone, older people are less able to perform the biologic conversion and do better with Ubiquinol.  Each person will react differently.  Some will be more helped by Ubiquinol than others.  In my case it is worth it just because for me it has reliably reduced the risk of reinjury to near zero.  Prior to taking Ubiquinol any little mishap left me inflamed.  This is no longer the case.  Additionally after some weeks now I am seeing just general improvement as well.  As with Penox, I don't think you can expect too much from just a week or even a couple of weeks.  I think you are looking at months and years to see significant benefit.  - George
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newguy

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2010, 11:31:28 PM »


For the difference between Ubiquinol and the far less expensive Ubiquinone see -> http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/jan2007_report_coq10_01.htm  Note that younger guys might be wasting their money on Ubiquinol since younger bodies are still able to convert Ubiquinone to Ubiquinol very effectively.  For those of us who are older however (over 40), Ubiquinol is really the only way to go.

  - George

I started on Ubiquinone. hopefully due to my age (29) is will convert well, and as a result be useful/suitable. I've bought six months worth, so I will stick with it for that period of time, at which time I will draw a conclusion as to its effectiveness for me.
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2010, 12:43:42 AM »

I started on Ubiquinone. hopefully due to my age (29) is will convert well, and as a result be useful/suitable. I've bought six months worth, so I will stick with it for that period of time, at which time I will draw a conclusion as to its effectiveness for me.

I think that in your case that is probably a good choice.  You should be able to get a lot more Ubiquinol in your body this way for a lot less money by letting your body do the work rather than the chemists.  I wish you the best and hope you have a good results that I am experiencing or better.  - George
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Fred22

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2010, 04:32:54 PM »

Just got my ubiquinol from Swanson's...3 bottles, 60 softgels 100 mg.  Do you take it with food or does it matter?  I'm planning on taking 100 mg with each meal....Fred
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2010, 11:53:01 AM »

For those taking CoQ10, be aware that CoQ10 DOES lower blood pressure.  If you are already on blood pressure meds, that matters because adding CoQ10 will gradually drive down your blood pressure, which in some cases might end up going too low.  So if you are on BP meds, just keep an eye on your BP and let your doc know if it is getting too low.  There are research studies involving subjects who were actually taken off of their BP meds after being on CoQ10 for a while.  Since CoQ10 has far fewer side effects than most BP meds, that would be a very good thing.  - George
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SSmithe

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2010, 09:38:58 PM »

 You guys keep mentioning Ubiquinone and Ubiquinol.  Is the simple pills of CoQ10 (say from Whole Foods) the same thing?  Or am I taking the wrong stuff?
Thanks,
SSmithe
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32 years old.  Peyronies since 22. Stabilized peyronies plaque.  Erectile Dysfunction.  Trying to stay positive.

George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2010, 10:09:02 PM »

CoQ10 comes in two forms.  The older form is Ubiquinone.  Ubiquinone is to CoQ10 as Beta Carotene is to Vitamin A.  Its the raw form.  When you take Ubiquinone, your body has to break it down into Ubiquinol in order to use it.  What has been discovered is that people over about 40 years old or so lose much of their ability to convert Ubiquinone into Ubiquinol.  So in 2006 Ubiquinol, the refined or "reduced" version of Ubiquinone was introduced.  It is already reduced to the active form so there is no longer any need for the body to do any work.  This is the more expensive form that is recommended for those of us over 40.  If you are a younger guy, the less expensive Ubiquinone will work just fine as your body will convert it into the active form.  The label on your CoQ10 container will state if it is Ubiquinol.  If it does not say what form the CoQ10 is, you can be assured that it is Ubiquinone.  OK for younger guys, but less effective the older you get.  - George
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SSmithe

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2010, 11:01:04 PM »

George999,
Thanks for the explanation.  The pills I have been taking only say CoQ10 and nothing else, so I guess that would be the Ubiquinone.  And I am 31 so that should be OK then... Lets hope it does something.
Thanks,
SSmithe
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32 years old.  Peyronies since 22. Stabilized peyronies plaque.  Erectile Dysfunction.  Trying to stay positive.

crashbandit

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2010, 01:09:53 AM »

I ordered some nattokinase to help with circulation as I have problems with cold extremeties and thought I'd try this, plus I have hyper tension. Would nattokinase and Ubiquinol together possibly lower my blood pressure too much? I also got some Serrapeptase. Would these 3 supplements be ok together? Or maybe overkill?
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2010, 11:31:49 AM »

I was not aware that Natto lowers blood pressure although I really think it is a great supplement.  I have used it in the past myself.  And now you come along and tell us that it lowers blood pressure.  And, you know what, I did some checking ... and ... you are RIGHT!  Hallelujah!  This is great.  As for whether CoQ10 and Natto together can lower blood pressure too much.  The answer to that is IF you are ALSO taking prescription meds for your blood pressure, YES.  People on prescription meds for BP should be careful with a wide range of sups that can lower BP.  And especially with sups like CoQ10 and Natto that can be significantly effective in lowering BP.  The solution is to watch your BP very carefully while taking these sups and to go to the doc to get your prescription meds adjusted if your BP is drifting too low.  Thanks for posting this!  - George
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Fred22

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2010, 04:26:28 PM »

This post won't be relevant to others unless you have a condition called mitral valve prolapse, a (usually) benign heart condition in which the mitral valve is "floppy" and doesn't seat properly between beats.  Some with the condition have no symptoms...some have chest pains, panic attacks, anxiety, palpitations, fatigue, heart "flutters" and other symptoms.  I was diagnosed with mvp about 14 years ago and the symptoms will go away, sometimes for months or even years then just randomly reappear.

I'm mentioning this on the Co Q10 thread because Co Q10 (as well as magnesium) are said by some to help relieve mvp symptoms.  So here's what happened in my recent experience with ubiquinol. 

I started taking it on September 29 and took it without any problem until October 7 and 8, 100mg 3X per day.  On both of those days, out of nowhere I began to feel the flutters and dizziness so familiar to those who have this condition.  I also experienced skipped beats which I had never noticed before.  Since ubiquinol was the only new thing I'd added, I stopped taking it until today.  During the days I was off the ubiquinol, I had no significant mvp symptoms (except the occassional flutter when lying on my left side...just minor little symptoms).

Today I took 100 mg with breakfast and right after lunch, the symptoms started again.  Now this is rather odd as Co Q10 is supposed to be good for mvp.  Now this could be purely coincidental and I may try another 100 mg tomorow and see what happens.  Right now as I write this post, I have that uncomfortable "flutterly" feeling in my chest and I'm a little dizzy.  Earlier the symptoms were more severe.  I took my pulse a few times and didn't find any skipped beats. 

As I said...unrelated to Peyronie's but just thought it might be of interest to someone.....Fred
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GS

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2010, 09:56:36 AM »

Fred,

I have had MVP since I was a child and due to a lot of stress in my life, my condition got progressively worse about 6 years ago.  It was so bad that I had to have open heart surgery to correct it.  Since the surgery, everything has been fine with my mitral valve.

I was taking CoQ10 before the surgery and have been taking it since without any complications.

My suggestion would be to have your MVP checked out again by your cardiologist. It may have worsened over time and you may now be a candidate for a valve job.  If so, they are now doing the repair roboticly and you may not have to have your chest opened up.

Better safe than sorry.

GS
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Fred22

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2010, 08:46:44 PM »

Fred,

I have had MVP since I was a child and due to a lot of stress in my life, my condition got progressively worse about 6 years ago.  It was so bad that I had to have open heart surgery to correct it.  Since the surgery, everything has been fine with my mitral valve.

I was taking CoQ10 before the surgery and have been taking it since without any complications.

My suggestion would be to have your MVP checked out again by your cardiologist. It may have worsened over time and you may now be a candidate for a valve job.  If so, they are now doing the repair roboticly and you may not have to have your chest opened up.

Better safe than sorry.

GS

GS...Thanks for the info.  I've been meaning to see a cardiologist anyway.  Last year at my annual checkup they couldn't get an ekg reading because of some kind of "blockage" and they told me I should see a cardiologist.  When I told them I had mvp they said that was probably the reason for the ekg problem.  Just been putting it off for over a year now.....Fred
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Iceman

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Ubiquinol
« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2010, 05:21:11 PM »

george has mentioned this as an alternative that seems to enhance the effect of pentox - has anyone added this to their regime - im thinking of buying it so i am curios as to anyones thoughts???
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Woodman

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2010, 07:05:07 PM »

I ve recently started to take Ubiquinol. I learned about it through Georges post and he also recommended I mite try it for pain so I did. I ve been taking it for about a week or so and it really has been great for me. It has reduced my pain a lot and is allowing me to move forward with the VED protocal. In my three years of Peyronies Disease its the only supplement that I ve ever had any luck with that I could tell that actually works. I am not taking Pentox but just taking it alone along with L-Argine, ALC, Vit. E.

I am thankful that George posted it on the forum and recommended to me. Thanks George!!!
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