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Author Topic: The Problem with Oral supplements - Circulation and Half Life  (Read 360 times)

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melting

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The Problem with Oral supplements - Circulation and Half Life
« on: January 05, 2020, 01:27:00 PM »

Reports about results from oral treatments vary a lot. One obvious reason could be the dosage.. too much or too less.
But a big thing I rarely hear about is Frequency in relation to the blood circulation and level.
Take for example Pentox:
Quote
The apparent plasma half-life of pentoxifylline varies from 0.4 to 0.8 hours and the apparent plasma half-lives of its metabolites vary from 1 to 1.6 hours.
That's important regarding our disease at hand and it's unique circumstances. Peyronies plaques/tissue often sit in a place were there's low blood circulation like the Tunica. (which probably is also the reason for it happening in the first place)

So, if you take a plain pill of Pentox, and it reaches your blood, it circulates for around an hour.
If you then have a flaccid penis with low circulation, for example driving to work or walking in the cold, it's very possible that not much of the Pentox actually reaches your penis and even less the site around the plaque/injury.

Granted there are slow release tablets for most products incl. Pentox. Nonetheless even then it's possible you will have times on the clock were no Pentox is present in your blood.
In that case it might be smart to take them 2 times a day(split up daily dose).

Non time released supplements - splitting the dose across the day will help to have the supplement more frequently in the blood circulation increasing the chance of it getting where it's needed.

The other way to tackle this problem is to increase the circulation of the penis. We have a lot of posts(stickied) about products helping with that and many have success with a combination of cialis & co. along with supplements. But even with these, you might think about splitting the dosage up throughout the day.
Another option is having frequent erections by whatever means.

Supplements differ widely in their half life. This information is readily available for most products on google to roughly calculate any "dark spots" on the clock.
Obviously if you take medications you have to ask your doctor if this makes sense and is applicable. Some medications might not be meant to circulate for long in the blood, take care.
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Holistic

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Re: The Problem with Oral supplements - Circulation and Half Life
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2020, 10:16:28 AM »

Hey Melting,

New here and posted my intro with my oral intake. Came across a few of your comments and you seem to have a good grasp on applications and the process. Ive researched the biological and mechanical process of Peyronies Disease which deals more with an abnormal inflammatory response with abnormal collagen formation from type 1 to 3 etc.

What are your thoughts with longevity of oral intake with frequency? For example Ive done oral Coq10, Vit C, Acetyl L-carnitine, Vit E for various durations based on studies taken multiple times a day. The most intake would be Vit C at 10-16 grams as the formation of free radicals in Peyronies Disease seems to mimic that of a cancer cell. Most of the studies ive come across have oral intake for 3 months max. Now my progression of the first lesion was slow and at 8 months of the intake (only took carnitine for 3 months, stopped and restarted recently for the second lesion), the lesion seemed to deminish. However, its uncertain what specifically caused it.

Anyways I was curious of your thoughts. I also saw you posted about iodine and DMSO, so I will eventually read those as I am considering that. Currently I am doing Nascient iodine 640mcg (1 drop) orally in the AM and one drop on the lesion with castor oil at night. Not sure if dosages are high enough? I read Nascient iodine is a good form readily available for the body to take in. I just dont want to OD since evidence is conflicting on optimal doses for people from previous use 40 years ago to today and how much is enough or too much. its said 1 mg is tolerable for most but then theres natropaths saying 1-8mg of nascient iodine is fine, some say 12.5mg of this iodoral tablet is good to knock out Peyronies Disease. but its unsure what considers toxicity levels. and Im not too gung ho on wasting money on lab tests to show me that my normal diet is deficient or to have an MD tell me what I mainly already know.

Thoughts on iodine or any studies on proven doses that work?

Looking forward to talking more with you.

Thanks
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32 yo. Unknown cause. 1st plaque proximal left base near pelvis 9/19. Expanded and shrunk after 8 mo by 50% (still working on it). Minor bend but malleable. 2nd small plaque 5/20 superficial distal right just under tip. Currently growing. No bend.

melting

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Re: The Problem with Oral supplements - Circulation and Half Life
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2020, 08:00:46 PM »

Ah some constructive feedback and someone applying logic thoughts NICE! :)

Quote

What are your thoughts with longevity of oral intake with frequency? For example Ive done oral Coq10, Vit C, Acetyl L-carnitine, Vit E for various durations based on studies taken multiple times a day. The most intake would be Vit C at 10-16 grams as the formation of free radicals in Peyronies Disease seems to mimic that of a cancer cell. Most of the studies ive come across have oral intake for 3 months max. Now my progression of the first lesion was slow and at 8 months of the intake (only took carnitine for 3 months, stopped and restarted recently for the second lesion), the lesion seemed to deminish. However, its uncertain what specifically caused it.

Obviously, as long as you keep healthy amounts and don't [email protected]< up mineral/vitamin balance(antagonists), more is better.
Taking 1 pill of a supplement that might help for peyronies, chances are it won't reach the peyronies plaque before it is moved out the body.(reasons I'm sure I mentioned in OP).
So using it more often chances increase it gets there. (Still lower than putting it right there at/into the plaque by whatever means).
There's no hurt, if done right, to use oral supplements all along the way. My post was never about abolishing oral supplements btw.

Quote
Anyways I was curious of your thoughts. I also saw you posted about iodine and DMSO, so I will eventually read those as I am considering that. Currently I am doing Nascient iodine 640mcg (1 drop) orally in the AM and one drop on the lesion with castor oil at night. Not sure if dosages are high enough? I read Nascient iodine is a good form readily available for the body to take in. I just dont want to OD since evidence is conflicting on optimal doses for people from previous use 40 years ago to today and how much is enough or too much. its said 1 mg is tolerable for most but then theres natropaths saying 1-8mg of nascient iodine is fine, some say 12.5mg of this iodoral tablet is good to knock out Peyronies Disease. but its unsure what considers toxicity levels. and Im not too gung ho on wasting money on lab tests to show me that my normal diet is deficient or to have an MD tell me what I mainly already know.

Thoughts on iodine or any studies on proven doses that work?

The literature on dosage is what it is and it varies. You have to test. Always start low and increase slowly and observe. For most supplements side effects are described and if you see them you should lower dosage/stop.
Toxicity levels are important and I guess mostly right! The optimal amounts for the average person I suspect are on the safe side when it comes from legally liable people/companies/government.

If you research Vitamin C from different sides and its dosage recommendations up to megadosing you will get a sense of the matter. (For example Linus Pauling)

Iodine, like with other supplements, there are different forms that have different toxicity etc. Lugols iodine is different.
I used Nascent Iodine too, with DMSO, topically applied. Surely more than 1 drop possibly a few dozen drops a day.
TOPICALLY, which in most cases doesn't mess with the stomach etc. but also avoids the stomach buffer, (diarrhea is something the body does to get rid of too much of something)
But I wouldn't do that forever. I guess I did it for some weeks. Emptied a bottle of 50ml nascent iodine.


My experience is that not single supplement or measure alone will solve peyronies. Have to attack it from different angles, same time, if possible.
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Holistic

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Re: The Problem with Oral supplements - Circulation and Half Life
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2020, 08:05:56 PM »

Ah some constructive feedback and someone applying logic thoughts NICE! :)

My experience is that not single supplement or measure alone will solve peyronies. Have to attack it from different angles, same time, if possible.

Haha much appreciated. Unfortunately the logic to the mechanical treatment to the disease doesnt seem to be as straight forward or universal.

And of course, I didnt take it as abolishing supps, I was just curious on thoughts. especially since most of the research with supps is only a few months versus 6-8.

ANd as far as the iodine stuff goes, im going to read a bit more of the posts on here and get back to you on the DMSO mix that cured your Peyronies Disease. Seeing as you supplied key info about diluting in in water first is big since a lot of posts on here didnt do that and ended up with burns. It sucks that it is left up do the people in forums to participate in self case studies to find the fix versus the medical field putting in efforts to find something other than xiaflex shots with bending and surgery with implants that dont seem to have much of a success rate.
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32 yo. Unknown cause. 1st plaque proximal left base near pelvis 9/19. Expanded and shrunk after 8 mo by 50% (still working on it). Minor bend but malleable. 2nd small plaque 5/20 superficial distal right just under tip. Currently growing. No bend.

melting

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Re: The Problem with Oral supplements - Circulation and Half Life
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2020, 09:35:47 AM »

Well, the mechanical approach is rather straight forward generally; -stretch and disintegrate the faulty tissue(and healthy) so it doesn't impact/hinder the flexibility an erection needs-

How it plays out in practice is a different story cause depending on where it sits, it's composition, the tissue around it etc. it can get complicated or messy and requires some thought on how to approach it.

Btw. there's no 1 dmso mix that cured me and I did a lot at the same time including extending, VED, oral etc. It's the combination that did it, I'm sure.

I think Xiaflex is a great measure and if I had it available(I don't - socialized crap medicine in germany) I would've used it.
From what I understand the care around the injection and mitigating side effects is where some might have to improve a lot, also the timing, frequency and type of plaque. And again it might need other measures to go along with it. For example I would do a lot myself probably with transdermals to get rid fast of any bruising due to the needle.
Implants are sure a good option for a lot of people too, I think they are quiet far at this point. But some might prematurely opt for that instead of other measure, which of course might take more time and DIY.
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Holistic

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Re: The Problem with Oral supplements - Circulation and Half Life
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2020, 09:53:30 AM »

My mistake, I meant mechanical not specifically as physical mechanics with stretching but mechanical in the way addressing the pathology would on a molecular level. Like looking at the research, finding its main offender and take it out. But the mechanics of that dont seem to be simple. Like the indentation of the tissue causing hourglass shape is said to be due to the integrity of the vascularity according to an article I read about heart vascular dysfunction...so Vit E is used for all that to help with repair. But when you take that logic to the penis, its different. Same if this is considered atherosclerosis of the penile tissue, than a Linus Pauling approach with Vit C and magnesium along with eliminating calcium from diet should in theory and application due to trick. I had a friend who had atherosclerosis in his heart valve, did the Pauling protocol for 6 months strict and when he did the valve test, the technician was slack jawed. it was as if he had a new valve.....So understanding the penis is a different part of the body, its attached to it and should technically respond in similar manner. But nope. And I dont think im in need of VED just yet. I dont have hard bend yet, only a soft bend from the base plaque but am able to straighten out.

And are you saying that different brands of DMSO used over time helped? Or a specific one mixture of diff DMSO in one application helped?

Your method seems to make the most sense but I havent gotten there yet. and wondering if i should get there soon while things are still acute. Ill be asking more specific questions on the other threads
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32 yo. Unknown cause. 1st plaque proximal left base near pelvis 9/19. Expanded and shrunk after 8 mo by 50% (still working on it). Minor bend but malleable. 2nd small plaque 5/20 superficial distal right just under tip. Currently growing. No bend.

melting

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Re: The Problem with Oral supplements - Circulation and Half Life
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2020, 12:24:10 PM »

Heart vs. Penis. 

That's the crux with the penis issue. Also why some people get peyronies without an apparent injury.
Blood flows 24/7 in large amounts through the heart it's veins and arteries and tissues. So everything you put into your bloodstream will get there easily.

With the penis blood circulation is sometimes very low. There's theory that sleep erections happen to ensure good blood flow to it.(oxygen etc.!)
Especially to tissue like the penis tunica, which is intervened by blood tissue but not like muscles in the arm or leg.

So if you have a problem in your penis that causes inflammation it might not be dealt with by the body like it would be with a highly bloodflow and oxenygated tissue. That could result in inflammation trapped that then will result in faulty healing and fibroids which then harden.

______________
Different formulas, in differrent bottles, applied in different amounts and frequencies helped, hard to pinpoint which one. I circled sometimes 10 different ones. AND different measures along with it. DMSO softening the plaque and then using traction to stretch that one makes sense..

I personally, would, if I had a penis injury or new peyronies forming, coat it as much as I can that with my formulations especially anti-inflamatories. Would've shortened my journey, I'm sure. But many individual factors play into it..
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Holistic

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Re: The Problem with Oral supplements - Circulation and Half Life
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2020, 09:49:13 PM »

That makes a ton of sense with the heart Vs penis. I mentioned in a diff thread that im a physical therapist so i am familiar with those examples as the meniscus or tendon issues not getting direct blood supply...must have missed the day we were taught about penile tissue...lol...

Yeah that makes sense. Im going to dig through the threads and look for DMSO stuff. only thing im concerned is the "percentage" model. Im used to specific measurements. so I will double back on that with questions.

I appreciate your know with all around this subject matter and the depths of discussion. Its good to have someone on here with that. Even if this DMSO method may not work for me, i do feel it will be superior to oral supps if administered correctly and safely.
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32 yo. Unknown cause. 1st plaque proximal left base near pelvis 9/19. Expanded and shrunk after 8 mo by 50% (still working on it). Minor bend but malleable. 2nd small plaque 5/20 superficial distal right just under tip. Currently growing. No bend.
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