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[Eric_C]

Late last week I began my first two sessions of VED prep before beginning the proper daily protocol. In order to be super super careful, I thought I would just pump to 50-70% of an erection to keep it safe. I followed the instructions. 2-3 pumps then a 10-15 second pause.

I experienced no pain or swelling, but the feeling of the vacuum pulling against me was definitely a strange sensation. I figured everything was hunky dory and was pleased to start my therapy.

Unfortunately my penis has not responded well to this. After my first session I had a significant Hard Flaccid. My penis was flaccid, but very small and quite dense. Urination became slightly harder to commence the flow.

I figured it's just my tissues getting used to the therapy as I had read in the literature.

I had only used the C chamber, and never even became fully engorged. I never held the erection for more than about 20 seconds before releasing and having a good long wait before beginning another cycle (only did 3 or 4 cycles too).

After a day's rest, I did another session. Repeated the same kind of thing. Again, no pain, not 100% erect. No swelling, no bruising.

But afterwards I had a feeling of being stretched within my shaft. And then afterward I had Hard Falccid/a short, dense, semi-turtled flaccid.

I'm almost a week out and it still feels sore and irritated on and off. I daren't even think of masturbating. To be honest, I'm scared to get an erection. It seemed a bit better yesterday so since I hadn't ejaculaterd for about 11-12 days I thought I'd see what was going on, as it got to about halfway erect I felt a stretching sensation mid-shaft which concerned me - so I halted my investigation.

I'm absolutely gutted now. Wishing I had never tried it. I really could not have been anymore conservative or diligent with my technique either.

My flaccid penis is now sore, it's almost like there is no shaft at all, or, it is in a state of Hard Flaccid. I have no idea what this means, and to be honest, I have no real faith that anyone else does either.

I'm just gonna leave it alone and hope for the best.

I'm guessing my inflammation has re-started. It had been fine for a good while on that front.

I'm seriously troubled and disheartened by this.

[melting]

Less vacuum. I don't like how most of these are advertised. Someone starting out should start on the lowest end, 1-3 hg, 5 minutes.. and some of the people used to it can take a lot more incrementally(especially in time under pressure). Same with traction.
 
Possibly your pelvic floor reacted to it. If you would pull on your penis the pelvic floor reacts by pulling it back in/resists, tensing everything up..
This might've happened and sometimes the body keeps that state chronic. Relax your Pelvic Floor.(there are some exercises around)

If it's due to tensing there then also low bloodflow and hence low oxygen etc. which then favors inflammation.

Obviously don't give up in your way to betterment..

[TonySa]

I wonder if heat before and/or after VED may help?

[melting]

Tony, it surely can. It loosens up the tissue and has a well researched effect on collagenous tissue in other body parts.
Clearly heated pumping creates an easier ability to expand the tissue. The only downside is that it also allows lymphatic fluids to enter the skin easier(bloating).

[Eric_C]

Melting: Yes that sounds like a better approach, although I'm not familiar with the pressure increments (hg).

I feel like 3 full pumps was way too much for me. I was only ever an average size and I've lost a good chunk of that volume so it would not take much to pump that up. 1 pump then a 10 second wait would have been a safer method for me.

I watched a video by Neo V and he talks about even half pumps can be used and I'm inclined to agree. I put the VED against my hand and even a half pump has a fair impact.

I feel like I have disturbed a structure (the scar/plaque?)/some lining within my shaft and have now got inflammation.

My pelvic floor was actually checked recently and is in good kilter. However, I did have hard flaccid on and off for years. So I believe a rectal pelvic floor clean bill of health does not necessarily equate to freedom from Hard Flaccid.

The 3 more penile parts of the pelvic floor in the frontal zone that directly attach to and form the penile root can be in a state of tension or fright, I beleive, and this is what casues the symptoms many of us witness.

I plan to release muscular tension in the surrounding muscles and work on breatrhing exercises to aid this.

Hi TonySa,

How can I use heat to treat the area without heat soaking my testicles? I dont like the idea of a rice sock. My unit is too tender to manually handle at the moment. I would not want to do anything to it at all to be honest. But at times I've instinctively felt heat would help, and hot baths are not an option. Showers, yes. But showers and stanmding still both induce hard flaccid.... sitting or laying relieves it (somewhat).

Thank you both, very helpful input.

[melting]

Agree on everything you said reg. pumping.

I feel like I have disturbed a structure (the scar/plaque?)/some lining within my shaft and have now got inflammation.

That's possible, if you think about it the tissue surrounding the plaque could be the first to be inflamed. Get that inflammation down before doing anything(lots about anti inflammation found here, maybe take Pentox if you can..)

My pelvic floor was actually checked recently and is in good kilter. However, I did have hard flaccid on and off for years. So I believe a rectal pelvic floor clean bill of health does not necessarily equate to freedom from Hard Flaccid.

The 3 more penile parts of the pelvic floor in the frontal zone that directly attach to and form the penile root can be in a state of tension or fright, I beleive, and this is what casues the symptoms many of us witness.

Yeah, there doesn't need to be any injury to have PF imbalances/tension. Reminds me of shoulder tensions many people have. Can be as chronic, subconscious and "weird". Your observation on the parts is very good. In essence you would want to be able to relax the whole area within your hips from the tailbone and abs down. To get there I think expanding/stretching it with the help of breathing is helpful. (though the resting/relax point is at the end of the exhale) (You might try this: https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,12619.msg115954.html#msg115954) Of course there might be more exercise or even help of a "pelvic floor specialists" needed.

Reg. heat application(not recommended while your are inflammed) You can wrap a heating pad around the pump prior to using it(not too hot)

[JS1991]

This is why I haven't been using VED; I'm afraid it will aggravate my hard flaccid. And I'm at a point where my entire focus is relieving myself of the condition, so I don't want any setbacks.

That being said, I would definitely suggest to anyone reading this to use heat before using VED. Buying a VED with a pressure gauge should also come in handy. I've never heard of the issue you're facing after using VED, Eric, but I hope it goes away sooner rather than later. Keep us posted.

[TonySa]

I found wrapping the shaft of my penis w “hothands” worked well.  It doesn’t need to cover it completely-the heat radiates outward.  Don’t use tape w adhesive, try the non adhesive stretch ones—such as Coflex.

[Eric_C]

Melting: Thanks for the input. Yes you nailed it there with the word expansion. I could definitely benefit from regular breathing exercises to improve my function there. A boost to the parasympathetic nervous system might loosen up overall muscle tone and decrease hard flaccid.

I think my penis is definitely inflamed, I might visit the GP about it and see if she'll prescribe Pentox. Although it's not commonly prescribed here for penis related stuff. I might even get on ibuprofen as it's been 1 week now and I'm still not back to normal. Could Pentox exacerbate my symptoms at all through extra blood-flow? I'm starting to think I should just leave it alone and let it stabilise. Thjats all I've done to it so far this last week.

Yes you're right I think, stay well away from heat for the minute.

TonySa: Thanks for the info man. I'll bear that in mind if I require heat in the future. Too sore for the moment though. If I tied something to my penis now I feel like my glans might just fall off. The whole thing just feels super fragile/weak).

You're definitely smart JS1991 to hold off on VED until you've resolved/improved HF. That was my initial intention - but I started reading about how you must get on VED sooner rather than later if you want to see results, and I started to think my angle was increasing, so I got on the case quicker. I never rushed or anything and studied this for quite a long time.

So I'll keep you guys updated, hopefully it passes and things return to normal. Not a lot I can do, I made the best decision I could at the time and was as cautious as I could be.

[melting]

Oh yeah, our great health systems in europe :/
Yes, Pentox will most probably help you. Insist on it(you are sure it will help you) and at worst game the system by making something up that it is indicated for.

You might check my posts in the alternative treatments forum regarding DMSO and transdermals which I think could help focusing on the area of the inflammation.(lot's of DIY though)

[TonySa]

I’d recommend following the VED protocols here quite closely...unfortunately many have had setbacks by over inflating. https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/board,38.0.html

[Eric_C]

UPDATE:

There have been times when my flaccid penis wasn't so hard/dense recently, so I hoped that this was a sign of improvement. It still turtles when I sit, or walk around though.

So after 3 weeks of no masturbation,  (and balls the size of planets) I attempted to get another erection. It didn't reach 100% full, nowhere near. I don't know if it was my anxiety affecting that, as I know it can play a role. Either way, my hourglass area seems a lot narrower now. Worryingly so - it's visible whether flaccid or erect, semi etc.

And since this failed erection which quickly decayed faster than I've ever experienced before, I don't seem to be able to get another one. My penis just feels like there's some activity there, but no erection. I haven't really persisted though, to be honest, I think I'm a bit shell-shocked over this right now. So not in the best frame of mind for it.

My nocturnal erections which have never wavered before have now gone. They appeared after the initial pumping though, like 2 days later, and were then there most days... but only recently dried up... This is one for a professional I'm guessing, so Ill be booking an appointment.

Another frustration is I'm often afraid to retract my foreskin to clean, as it just feels so flimsy, there just doesn't feel like there is the stability or robustness to allow me to do so (bear in mind my hourglass is right behind the glans - the area that is stressed as you pull back your foreskin). Maybe I should get circumsized, that would eliminate the stress to that hourglass area. Not too keen on this though really.

As you can imaghine, this has been a rough couple of weeks. I really fear I've lost what little I had that worked now. Beyond gutted.

Yes, Pentox will most probably help you. Insist on it(you are sure it will help you) and at worst game the system by making something up that it is indicated for.

Unfortunately I have absolutely zero faith in this now. I've read the Pentox Poll and several people found it irritated them or contributed to them getting worse. I just feel like knowing my luck I'll be one of those people too, since I couldn't even tolerate light VED.

[Eric_C]

Something positive to report:

Yesterday I did an extended hour to 90 minutes of breathing exercises. I downloaded the Headspace app which is great for that, it really is relaxing and allows you to quickly go into a very relaxing state. I've been pretty miserable over this whole thing so I thought this would be something proactive I could do for myself, not for my penis.

I was consciously trying to release tension in my abdomen and hips whilst relaxing. It did reduce a lot, but some of it kind of transferred to the back and front of my neck and upper spine, but at least it gave my middle and lower body a break.

I woke up with morning wood for the first time in probably a week or so now. Not a full erection, but hey, I'll take it.

My penis felt a bit looser, and a bit more normal throughout the day, less sore, less inflammation.

Much happier.

Still got on/off Hard Flaccid, Turtling, but hey, Rome wasn't built in a day.

[popopo]

Hey, just wanna let you know you're not the only one that responds bad to VED. I personally have inflammation that I can't get rid of for months/years now and it never really stopped. If I try to do VED (I did plenty of times in the past) I always get worse inflammation and don't even want to try it anymore because of it. Not sure why, but some people DON'T respond well to VED and get worse. Don't want to discourage you, but you gotta know to make up your own mind. If you decide not to do VED, I don't really know what else you could try besides traction. It's hard.. in my opinion there aren't a lot of treatment options available but maybe in the future.

[Eric_C]

I personally have inflammation that I can't get rid of for months/years now and it never really stopped. If I try to do VED (I did plenty of times in the past) I always get worse inflammation and don't even want to try it anymore because of it. Not sure why, but some people DON'T respond well to VED and get worse.

Thanks for the note. I wonder if you also have a case of Hard Flaccid? I think the inflammation might be more pronounced in Hard Flaccid cases, because the penile tissues are under more tension.

I feel like the reason I reacted badly is my Hard Flaccid for sure. The tissues were just not pliable enough.

Yeah I know what you mean. It's pretty sad that there aren't more effective therapies. I read about someone's experience with stem cells which sounds like it might be worth it potentially. And also regular fasting seems to help people. Problem is I'm doing physio at the moment, so trying to build leg muscles, so fasting is not ideal really.

**UPDATE**

It is a bit better now. I've had a couple of full erections and even "blew the cobwebs away", if you catch my drift. The erection quality was not as hard as before. And my hourglass area seems much more pronounced when semi erect or flaccid.

But progress is progress, so I'm feeling so much better now that my body seems to be healing a bit.

[popopo]

Yes I have hard flaccid too. It used to be worse, now it comes and goes but overall my penis feels more like plastic/rubber where it used to feel soft and fleshy if that makes sense. If I use VED now I'll have hard flaccid again and my penis would feel cold and shrivled. Maybe I'll try it again once the inflammation is all gone, whenever that may be.

[Eric_C]

Yes that's exactly how mine feels too. As my HF started easing a bit, when I'm sitting I could feel a sensation at the base of my penis, of muscular tension. I feel like this was the Isichiocavernous muscles...

Do you ever do any relaxation exercises, deep breathing, meditation etc? Might sound silly, but starting up a regular practice of this can really help the condition. It causes the nervous system to activate the parasympathetic side more, which has the effect of globally reducing muscle tension across the body... including the pelvic floor muscles and the small muscles at the base of the penis.

HF can be cured. There's a channel on youtube called Greg HF or something like that. The guy talks about it being a myofascial problem which makes sense to me. As my body is pretty shot up all over the place with excess muscle tension, old injuries etc.

The three best things I found for HF are: reduced masturbation, once a week roughly. Deep tissue massage of the legs, hips, butt, back... with particular attention to quads, adductors, hip flexors, rectus abdominus, and thirdly, breathing and relaxation practice.

[JS1991]

Hard flaccid makes every visible deformity from peyronies look greatly exaggerated and 10x worse. Just know it is the HF doing this, and once you fully release it you will be greatly improved. For myself, the best way of controlling HF are reduced masturbation, specifically ejaculation, deep belly breathing (reverse kegels), stretching (look up happy baby pose, works great in conjunction with the reverse levels/deep breathing), therawand, pelvic floor physical therapy (internal), external massage of tight/painful muscles while fully erect (allowed me to sit without pain after performing it), and fasting while abstaining from sexual activity. VED is also difficult for me with HF and I’m riding myself of the condition before I attempt it again. HF definitely exacerbated inflammation/pain, sense the penile tissue is so constructed. Fasting has eliminated my pain though, thankfully.

[Eric_C]

Great post, JS1991. Lots of useful stuff there. Looks like there is commonality between all 3 of our experiences of Hard Flaccid. Yes, ejaculation does a number on your flaccid penis for sure. I think of it like a popped balloon effect, if you get me. During the erection those tense constricted tissues are forced to stretch and inflate, so when they shrink, they're super burnt out, and need some time to reinvigorate.

I have the popped balloon effect now, as I ended up with an erection after just washing in the shower. I didn't even ejaculate, but my little dude still feels like he's run a marathon. I guess that's the effect of the inflammation plus HF - a brutal combination.

Do you guys feel like your HF played a part in the causation of your Peyronies? I do, for sure. The only possible trauma to mine would have happened 5 years before Peyronie's manifested - but during that time I had HF.

Happy baby pose, cool, I'll try that.

So you feel like fasting helped you? I hear that autophagy is the mechanism for helping. I really would like to get on it but am worried about it affecting my ability to build leg muscle in physio.

[Paolo]

Combine pelvic floor exercises with Ocotillo bark liquid (Fouquieria splendens) for a BIG increase in Portal circulation 
If your job consists of being sedentary then I highly recommend it.
Paul.

[Eric_C]

Combine pelvic floor exercises with Ocotillo bark liquid (Fouquieria splendens) for a BIG increase in Portal circulation 
If your job consists of being sedentary then I highly recommend it.
Paul.

Is that some kind of homeopathic medicine? Or Traditional Chinese Medicine? Can't find too much online. I see Amazon stock it, not got many good reviews though.

[Paolo]

Hi Eric, I will send you a PM with supplier 
Paul.

[philtered]

 can you pm me with supplier too paulo thanx

[Eric_C]

So I now realise I have "hinging" at my narrow/hourglass point beneath the glans. Only witnessed whilst flaccid so far.

Pretty gutted, as I never had this before the VED in any form. Needless to say I'll be claiming my money back guarantee on that VED now. Beside myself.

[TonySa]

Never heard of VED causing peyronies unless perhaps overdoing the pumping...

[Eric_C]

I didn't imply that it caused it.

I had hourglassing before. It just wasn't this significant whilst flaccid. It's really visible all the time now and hinging at the narrow-point/ hourglass area. It never did that before.

I didn't overpump. It's just my tissues were too taut for VED due to Hard Flaccid. This has already been discussed earlier in the thread.

[Eric_C]

Update: my penis now pulls to the right when flaccid a lot, and when erect if I'm lying down. I subsequently found a very sore spot on my right side near the base. My other scar/plaque was on the left side in an inner curve near the head. Totally gutted about this.

Whether the VED caused this or not I have no idea, but from my perspective it kind of seems like it. For all I know I had that before I tried VED. I have absolutely no idea. But i don't remember any rightward leaning at all before the VED. It occurred to me that if i have a rightward lean, there might be some kind of interruption in the tissue to cause said lean.... and sure enough, there she blows, off the starboard bow.

After an erection or (extremely careful/super light) masturbation my flaccid penis is a pretty shocking affair. Kind of like a normal sized glans, just hanging there in skin. It's like the shaft totally disappears. I really want to get this looked at by a urologist so I'm going to look for another one.

My ejaculation also seems blocked or stifled. Just weeps out.

[melting]

That's possible if you have a pressure point from the VED tube.
In any case, if you're inflamed or sore you shouldn't do any VED or traction.

As always I think transdermals are the best way to get to the tissue, inflamed and settled stage.

[Eric_C]

Yeah I think maybe I was pushing the tube too hard against my body maybe.

I think you've mentioned transdermals before, is there a particular product you recommend?

[melting]

There are silicone "bases" for vacuum pumps that might help with the rim digging in.

Transdermals, for details, you have to read through my thread in my signature. All I know is in there.
You can never go wrong with Ascorbic acid(vitamin C) as it's necessary to a lot of tissue processes.(of course you need a carrier like DMSO to make it transdermal)

[Godisreal]

Would vitamin c, dmso and castor oil mix together good? Only these ingredients... nothing else? Or would the molecular weight be too heavy? Mix em together in a brown eye dropper glass.
Chime in melting, would ya

[melting]

Chime in melting, would ya

Godisreal, possibly yes, and I addressed mixing several supplements in the thread(it has some draw offs) linked in my sig and please ask such questions in the thread there and not all over the forum out of context, much easier to reply

[Eric_C]

Transdermals, for details, you have to read through my thread in my signature. All I know is in there.

Ah I see. I hadnt read this thread or heard about your positive results until I just read your signature. Looks like I have some reading to do.

[TonySa]

Melting your signature says transdermal “solved your problem”, but doesn’t explain exactly what that means...reduction of curvature by 50%, etc

[melting]

I think "solved my problem" is quiet descriptive and at the link in my signature it reads:

It turned me from painful erection and profound hourglass to fully functional.

Which is as clear as I can get without writing several paragraphs.

I didn't use any measurements on angles° or anything regarding the lingo you might seek. It's btw. also not done with physical examinations regarding peyronies in Germany with the docs I consulted. I had to lie telling you something about a "°"/angle number. Have to take my word or leave it at that.. I mention often enough the caveats of what I did and do. People have to take responsibility and make up their minds for themselves if it makes sense or not.

Information on Phallosan forte getting response? Is it legit?

Started by TeckTonic13 Traction and Traction Devices for correcting Peyronies Disease

Information on Phallosan forte getting response? Is it legit?

Started by TeckTonic13 Alternative Treatments of Peyronie's Disease

Waiting for a response

Started by Jack1909 Vacuum Erection Devices (VEDs) for Peyronie's Disease