VED usage timing & period

[Rachel]

Hi Chaps.

Please can you help or advise.

VED - I have read all the posts and the information here and am still confused. New here and am still reeling from the news that my partner has Peyronies Disease.

Questions:

1. If there is pain during an erection, which he has, is the purpose of a VED to maintain some blood flow and help with the loss in sixe and girth. and straighten curvature etc?

2. Is it advisable to use a VED if there is still pain and the Peyronies Disease is still ikn its early stages (of a few months)?

3. It certainly seems that there are positive aspects to using this treatment along with Penox and L Arginine in the early stages - so what device is best to buy?

4. How long daily is a cycle? Ddoen it simply involve putting the member into the VED and pumping it to gain erection, daily for 26 weeks on the protocol listed here by Angus?

5. Traction vs VED - not sure what the difference is - is traction on a flacid penis and VED when the penis is erect - but both are aiming to decrease the curvature and increase blood flow?



I am sorry but I have been reading over all theere forums for hours and hours now and have made so many notes. We have our first appt next week and I am hoping to try to do as much as possible in this early stage.

Any help for my wonderful man will be really appreciated.

Thank you for your support.

Rachel

[Old Man]

Rachel:

OK, I know by now that after reading all those posts on the forum that you have arrived at a saturation point. Now, you should try to relax a bit and evaluate all the data that you have gleaned from all your reading.

You asked several questions about the VED usage and maybe I can help with that. VED therapy is to be approached with caution in that the amount of vacuum pressure must be closely watched to prevent overpumping. Overpumping the pressure can aggravate ones Peyronies Disease symptoms so keep that in mind. On the other hand, used properly, VED therapy can and will greatly help with penile heath and helping get rid of the symptoms.

There are many aspects of VED therapy that are confusing and I am sure that at this point you and your partner are too. However, there is light at the end of the tunnel. In my PM to you earlier today, I outlined the suggested source of a good medical quality VED. The VED board on the forum has quite a number of sub topics that cover many aspects of VED therapy. There are several protocols listed that give the weekly schedules of which cylinder(s) are to be used and also shows the suggested number of exercise cycles. So, browse through all of the protocols to get a good picture of them.

I am sure that you will have questions about them, so feel free to ask any and all questions you or your partner might have. I have been using a VED for ED and Peyronies Disease for 15 years now and have vast knowledge about them and their usage.

You should get input from those guys that are using the traction therapy too. I am sure that someone will jump in here with their take on that. Since the VED therapy was successful for me, I never used the traction.
Both have their place in Peyronies Disease therapy.

Old Man

[GS]

Rachel,

I totally agree with Old Man.  Take a step back, catch your breath and then proceed very slowly.  I got so caught up in the whole thing when I first got Peyronies, that I wasted a lot of time and money chasing a cure that wasn't there.

I am now in my 7th week of the 26 week VED protocol.  I tried to go slowly and cautiously and still over pumped the device a couple of times.  Tell your husband to GO SLOWLY and err on the conservative side.

As to supplements, I think everyone is in agreement about Pentox, but from there, there are a lot of opinions and options.

Good luck to both of you; having a partner to share the load with is a very positive thing.

GS

[Rachel]

Thank you both.

I am feeling some relief from reading more and seeing that there are some things that can be done, rather than sitting back and letting it happen. I know there is no cure, but it does seem that most men can at least sleep at night and maintain some normal life with a supporting partner, despite this cruel disease. Speed bump. Period.

This site has been incredible and the support and wealth of knowledge just great. I know too well the mine field of having a syndrome that is 'unknown' one that needs the patient to feel his way on his own. We have been through it already with my partners other illnesses.

Yes, take stock and now I feel that having read for the last 2 days all the info I can find here on the net and from PM's I feel like I have an idea of what to expect and waht we can do. Who the right people are to speak to in the UK and on line.

With the info i have I can now see the urologist next week and hope that even if my partner cant feel he can enter the realms of forums yet, that we can fight together.

Thank you. I will keep post here on what is happening and hope you can continue to support us, and advise us in this scary time.



R

[Rockout]

I have heard from many helpful people on this forum that I should begin using a VED along side an oral treatment plan. Is there a particular time in the progression of the disease that is recommended to begin VED therapy?

[MikeSmith0]

the earlier the better, i think...?  the scar tissue isn't mature and hard yet... you have a window of opportunity now.  at least that's the gist ive picked up from this board.

[chefcasey]

The only way to know for sure is to try.  Experiment a little with it.  If you  currently have pain and the injury is very recent.  Yes the scar tissue isn't mature yet, but you could aggravate tissue that is trying to heal and inflame it even more...be careful

[Rockout]

Do you typically get an Rx for a VED from your Uro? Or do you buy one online and just follow the protocols posted here?

[fubar]

A Deer in the headlights?  

[Luciano]

If you can get a Rx, go for it...
If not get one online
But in anycase use the protocols posted here.
I read a study from a belgium hospital they also applied the same protocols used here. (only difference: the patients did 5-10 minutes 3x a day instead of the 15-30 minutes posted here. but that should make no difference)

Luc

[Worried Guy]

My uro says there is no harm in starting straight away and it will help it from getting worse.  He carried out the UK study.  

From the UK study

RESULTS There was a clinically and statistically significant improvement in penile length, angle of curvature and pain after 12 weeks of using the vacuum pump. Of the 31 patients, 21 had a reduction in the angle of curvature by 5-25 degrees , three had worsening of the curvature and there was no change in the remaining seven. The curvature was corrected surgically in 15 patients while the remaining 16 (51%) were satisfied with the outcome.

CONCLUSION Vacuum therapy can improve or stabilize the curvature of Peyronies Disease, is safe to use in all stages of the disease, and might reduce the number of patients going on to surgery.

I'm booked in at their clinic on Wednesday and will start pumping as soon as possible.  Had a conversation with old man the other day and you should speak to him.

[Worried Guy]

That was after 12 weeks.  If you gave it 26 weeks (boring hell) you may be able to fix it!

http://www.popcull.com/vedstudy.pdf

[fubar]

Worried Guy

I say go for it no time like the present Old man is the expert and you have the study.Just remember go slow and stop if you feel pain.Do not get discouraged when you first use.It can be tricky and takes some time to master.I think mainly because our tissue is damaged different from one patient to the other.

I know when I first started ved treatment my member did not want to grow in the cylinder.After awhile if you buy a maedicle grade vitality ved it will only take four or five pumps to expand.

Also if you experience discomfort all you have to do is tap the pressure release button a couple of time to realease pressure to a comfortable level.Remember do not try to over pump if you do tap the pressure release button to a comfortable level.If you cannot cease  pumping and wait a couple days until you heal.

Good luck,  fubar

[Worried Guy]

I ordered my VED Fubar and it should be with me tomorrow.  Gonna try my first session on Saturday.  Basically it is a pretty simple routine.  Pump up to a good erection and hold for 20 seconds.  Let it down and then start over again.  Do this for 10 minutes twice a day.

[SSmithe]

Can any of you guys tell me if there is a difference between getting regular hard erections, and using a VED?  Does the VED do something that an erection doesn't?  I don't get AM erections anymore but I can induce a hard erection while masturbating, which I try to do every other day.  Do I have a need for a VED?

[Worried Guy]

Yeah the VED is applying more pressure than a normal erection ever would.  The pressure of the VED pulls the penis from every angle thus pulling it straight.  I hope to try it for the first time over the weekend.  I'm intent on sticking with this for at least 26 weeks.

[Grimchap]

In the study quoted http://www.popcull.com/vedstudy.pdf It says that there was no change in patients with "waist deformity" and also "erectile and sexual function did not significantly change"

Does this mean that a VED really only helps the curvature and in turn pain.

I have a slight waist deformity which I have had for around 8 years and has never caused any pain, there has been a small loss of length and a slight loss in the strength on my erection but nothing significant. However, I have noticed a new hard plaque on the underside of my penis, again no pain or curvature but I would like to nip it in the bud by researching and utilizing as many options as possible. Am I then correct in assuming that a VED would not be of much benefit to me at this point?

G

[Old Man]

Grimchap:

Based on the many years of experience that I have had using the VED therapy, the best time for starting VED therapy is as early on as possible in ones Peyronies Disease case. There are many pros and cons relative VED usage, but my experience has proven that the least it can do is promote better blood flow into and out of the corporal chambers. This in turn promotes a healthier penis and therefore may prevent Peyronies Disease from developing calcification.

In my personal case, the VED therapy proved to be the only therapy that helped correct my Peyronies Disease symptoms. My penis had developed a 45 degree downward and 45 degree to the right curve/bend after a radical retropubic prostatectomy in April 1995. The VED was prescribed by my uro/surgeon to help with the Peyronies Disease symptoms when all else known at the time failed. It took a bit over a year to removed the hourglass indentation and both curves. At the same time, it restored my lost dimensions. Today, I am considered in an arrested state of Peyronies Disease with a straight penis again.

I strongly urge you to look into the VED therapy as a possible therapy for your case. Will be glad to address any and all questions you might have about VED therapy.

Old Man

[Grimchap]

Thanks Old Man, whats the recomended model for the beginner  

G

[Old Man]

G:

The model VED you would need depends on several things , i.e. amount of capital available to purchase one if you don't have insurance coverage and on the amount of symptoms you have. Also, based on your physical size, you would need to know if a one cylinder or the three cylinder model would be best. Each one has a protocol listed in the VED board section of the home page after you log in to the forum.

Some guys get good therapy results from the Vitality OTC one cylinder model and others prefer the three cylinder model available from the Augusta Medical Systems. The Augusta model costs considerably more than the Vitality OTC one cylinder model if cost is a deciding factor in your decision. The Vitality OTC VED does not require an RX where as the Augusta SomaSTF three cylinder model does require an RX (NOTE: the Augusta VED can only be sold by RX when it states it is to be used for ED and not Peyronies Disease. It is not approved for Peyronies Disease therapy by FDA.)

Either model VED can and will help with Peyronies Disease systems if followed on a strict daily regimen of therapy sessions as shown in the protocols listed in the VED board section of the home page of the forum when you log in, etc.

Others here may jump in and give you some suggestions about which one you would need or prefer based on your individual symptoms. I recommend the three cylinder model since it gives one a better overall exercise cycle than the one cylinder model. I can give you the links to both web sites if you decide on the VED therapy route.

Old Man

[Scorpiries]

hey guys... never use the VED before... but maybe someday i will try it, i dont know... just a simple question.. i heard that VED progression is quite slow... so, if there's still no improvement, how long does one should stick with VED treatment until he know that it's not actually working for him?

[Old Man]

Scorpiries:

I would say that one should stick with the 26 week schedule for at least one cycle. VED therapy works differently from one case to another. Some guys realize good results within a few days and others take longer. Some guys have even done the 26 week protocol two or more times with no visible results - hence the difference between cases as mentioned herein. There is no rule of thumb about how long it takes for VED therapy to produce good results.

The bottom line with VED therapy is that it does work slowly, but does have at least some beneficial effects including better blood flow into and out of the penile chambers. Over time, it promotes better penile health and helps with restoring lost dimensions in most cases. The overall percentage of help with VED therapy is reported to be between 85% or better on a 100 percentile scale. However, there are no trials that I know of that support this claim.

So, one just has to decide if VED therapy is for them, purchase a good medical quality unit and proceed with the protocol.

Old Man

[cowboyfood]

see my earlier posts for a more detailed version of my history, but I'm right at the three (3) year anniversary since I realized Peyronies Disease symptoms.

About three months after this realization, I began to use the 3-cylander VED.  I still use the VED at least 5 times per week, and I've used it over 90% of the time over those three years.

A year and a half into this condition, I saw the dent on my right-side resolve about 90%-95%.

About that same time, I noticed a dent on my left side which progressed larger for a few months.  It has been stable until this past August when I could notice a slight reduction.  At this time, it's reduced about 50% from over a year ago.

In my experience, it has worked well.  I've never lost any size that I can tell.  

IMO, it helped mitigate and then resolve deformities.

You've heard correctly that it can correct deformities, but progress is slow.

However, compared to other alternatives (besides surgery) it's NOT RELATIVELY slow.  I'm not aware of any relatively "fast" solutions. Even surgery is slow if you factor in the time it takes for many to reach that decision.

CF

[LauRenT]

Hi
After a discussion with an other member about VED, i just want to know your opinion about using VED in the acute phase. We know that VED when following the rules is one of the best way to "treat" peyronie s symptomes. But in acute phase can it be realistic to think maybe it can make worser the inflammatory process?  and again, when VEd is used gently and safety.

I justed started VED 3 cylinders 2 weeks ago and nearly one year with peyronie.
I have pain sometimes ( not so much ) but before VED i had pain too, in that case for now VED doesn t make worser the situation.
So this thinking make me a little lost, even if i continue the protocol.
Continue my way but never give up.
Take care of you all.

[Old Man]

LauRenT:

If you have had Peyronies Disease for about a year prior to starting the VED therapy, I see no reason why the therapy would make your situation worse. However, if you experience any additional pain or discomfort you did not have before the VED therapy, you should either use less vacuum pressure or stop the therapy to see if the pain or discomfort lessens.

VED therapy in the acute phase of Peyronies Disease is OK if there is no pain or unusual discomfort associated with it. Less vacuum pressure with the VED therapy is much better than over pumping and thereby causing more trauma to a very sensitive situation.

Keep the forum posted as to your progress either good or bad so that others can benefit from your experience with the therapy. We are all here to help in any way, so feel free to ask any and all questions.

Old Man

PS: Have a Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year's!

[LauRenT]

Thanks Old man
As i said, pain is not the the biggest problem in my case. After 11 month with this situation, pain was worse in the last 3 months, and still no pain when i m erected. It s more a discomfort than a real pain and i just begining VED for 2 weeks. I have sometimes a little discomfort after using VED, but that s ok. I follow the rules but a little discomfort can be normal?
We create a force in a penis with problems, so an unusual sensation can be logic....... i think. But sometimes the border line between making things better or worser is hard to analize.

Merry Christmas and Bonne année!

[DJPER]

Dear all,

This thread is two years old and ideas might have changed. I am wondering whether the ideas regarding the use of VED in the acute phase have changed. I read some posts here suggesting that dr Lue and others advise against it. Although I support the concept behind VED use I would be hesitant to use in the acute phase do to fears that it might aggravate the inflammation. I wonder if people with lots of experience with VED and/or people who have been given advise by Lue or others would be so kind to comment.

Kind regards, be well.  

[Old Man]

DJPER:

Just read your post on the main forum regarding using VED therapy during the acute stage. The forum as a whole considers me to be the go to guy or VED guru as I have over 20 years of experience in ED, Peyronies Disease and men's sexual health problems.

Now, to answer your question about using the VED in the acute stage. That is really a very difficult question to answer as there are so many doctors recommending it and so many not recommending it. So, with the many years that I have been using a VED, I have been appointed by my personal urologist to assist her patients when they have a problem with VED usage and/or counseling for prostate cancer. At one time I was a prostate cancer counselor for the American Cancer Society (ACS). I worked with patients that were referred to me by the ACS to help them decide on a method of treating their cancer and any resulting problems after their treatment. So, I will address your question in a separate paragraph.

My personal opinion based on the above qualifications is that some forum of therapy MUST BE DONE DURING THE ACUTE STAGE! However, any therapy regimen must be done very carefully so as not to cause any further trauma to the already problems, etc. VED usage during the acute stages also MUST BE DONE WITH MUCH CAUTION NOT TO OVER PUMP THE VACUUM AND CAUSING EDEMA OF THE FORESKIN OR SHAFT AND ANY OTHER THING THAT MIGHT OCCUR.

SPECIAL NOTE: ALWAYS USE PLENTY OF LUBRICANT AT ALL TIMES WHEN DOING ANY MANUAL THERAPY WITH YOUR PENIS AND ESPECIALLY WHEN USING THE VED. THERE IS A PROTOCOL FOR THE ONE AND THREE CYLINDER VEDS LISTED IN THE VED BOARD SECTION OF THE MAIN FORUM. So, make sure that you read all of the thread/topics listed there. There is a world of information listed there.

Now, lastly, I am sure that you will get advice from other guys on the main forum. There will be different opinions listed. However, you must decide on which of those suggestions that you think would work best for you.

I will be happy to assist you in any way toward helping you decide on what therapy you should do. It is the general opinion of most all form members that some form of therapy should be started immediately after a good diagnosis that you have Peyronies Disease and/or ED.

Regards, Old Man  

[Mike_O]

My opinion (and it is just opinion) is that delaying therapy is a bad idea. However, therapy is different than "further injury". So my opinion (and it it just opinion) is that therapy (proper therapy) should begin as soon as possible.

As a side comment, I believe Peyronie's is much like "frozen shoulder" and while early therapy for frozen shoulder is not comfortable it is effective.

Best Wishes!

[Old Man]

Mike_O:

You are 100% right in your theory. And, it is the opinion of many knowledgeable uros and GPs around this country. Some doctors still just don't get it that early therapy for Peyronies Disease makes for a much better recovery form one of the most devastating disorders that a man and his wife/partner can be exposed to in any form.

So, bottom line, anyone experiencing ED or Peyronies Disease symptoms should seek qualified medical help as early as possible when they detect abnormal conditions in their most prized possession = their penises!!

Old Man

[DJPER]

Thanks Mike and Old Man! You are of major help. I agree. Early therapy is a good plan.

I am just wondering if stretching/VED is safe in the beginning. Could be. Why would it be unsafe at first and safe later on. On the other hand, irritating tissue which is inflamed feels a bit tricky and all small EVD/stretching studies have been done in men in the chronic phase. Therefore I am interested in the input of people who have used EVD/stretching in the acute phase or those who have been advised by knowledgeable uros on this topic.

[Old Man]

DJPER:

OK, VED therapy in the very early stages of ones Peyronies Disease must be approached with extreme caution. First, you must confirm that you do in fact have a Peyronies Disease problem. Once you have been diagnosed with Peyronies Disease, then you can start VED therapy with the same amount of caution.

Most of us have learned the difficult way that too much vacuum pressure definitely can and will cause one more trauma to their penis. So, you really need to get a firm confirmation that you have Peyronies Disease before embarking on a VED regimen.

Suggest that you read the information contained in the note when you sign in to the forum which states in part:  Read this first before posting. It will explain many questions that new member have.

Lastly to answer your question about the safeness of Peyronies Disease, there are many schools of thought about each approach, early VED therapy and wait and see first VED therapy. So, again you need the advice of a qualified urologist who specializes in Peyronies Disease treatment to determine if you a candidate for VED therapy and when.

When and if you decide on doing VED therapy, let the forum know and all of us will jump in and help you in any way.

Old Man

[Mike_O]

OK- 3 possibilites if you do ... (whatever): it will get better; it will stay the same; it will get worse.

The last time I read up on Peyronie's it was considered idiopathic - that is, of unknown origin with lots of debate about the proper therapy. So, you can do something or do nothing, either way you must accept the consequences of your actions. I personally believe we are all better off if we avoid the "blame game" - that is "I was told to do ... and it didn't work and that's why I am suffering and it is someone else's fault." Therefore, I believe the best approach is to take charge of your future as best you can.

This forum with all of the threads are a great resource (perhaps the BEST resource) for men with Peyronie's disease.

Please put in some time (many hours!), read the forum posts and plan your course of action - no one cares more about you than you!

Best Wishes!