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Author Topic: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates  (Read 15206 times)

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Bent Ding Dong

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #100 on: April 06, 2019, 09:15:27 PM »

I really don't know how you guys can fast so often and not fade away to nothing or have energy to last through the day? I've been on keto for 3 months now and have lost so much weight that I am built like a rake! I was on just meats, low carb vegies, mushrooms and cheese. I've been fatigued the entire time and have increased portion sizes and that didn't help the fatigue. I increased the cheese and meats with every meal and that didn't help fatigue so I added sweet potato with every meal and would now be out of ketosis but that also didn't help. So today I had a big bowl of oats and the fatigue is gone and I have energy for the first time in months.

What to do? Are there some people out there who just don't respond to keto? If I keep going with keto I will die of weight loss. Is there such thing as cheat days or carb loading days on keto?
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skunkworks

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #101 on: April 06, 2019, 10:12:39 PM »

Did you ever actually check if you were in ketosis? Ongoing tiredness tends to happen to people who are actually just dipping in and out of ketosis the whole time and never get fat adapted.
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Gabriel

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #102 on: April 07, 2019, 04:13:25 AM »

Yep, after 3 months of ketosis, I confirm+++ what Skunkworks is saying: you absolutely have to control your blood ketones mate, if not chances are you're wandering in the awful "grey zone" between ketosis and glycolisis and feel like sh*t all the time...

Moreover, keto-adaptation has not been easy for me either, and I'm not even sure I'm now fully fat-adapted. Dom d'Agostino, PhD and recognized expert on the subject, talks about "3 to 6 months rather than 2 to 4 months in order to be fully fat-adapted" (see this AWESOME interview here if you're patient: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keSoSyu9m7c&t=7960s). But trust me, when it happens, being in full and functionnal ketosis is a bliss you couldn't even suspect.

Last thing: yes, you can cycle carbs (check "targeted keto diet" and "cyclical keto diet"), but it's absolutely NOT recommended if you're looking for the medical benefits of the diet, and anyway not before you're 100,000000% fat-adapted.

Cheers,

G
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- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

Bent Ding Dong

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #103 on: April 07, 2019, 08:38:49 AM »

I didn't check if I was in actual ketosis to be honest but I was on strictly on less than 30 grams a day of carbs and kept it that way for months. I also tried full carnivore (just red meat) but extreme fatigue set in and I had to stop.

I was also getting weaker every time I tried to lift weights and exercise was really hard to do. I forgot to mention that I would go through a bottle of olive oil each week too so I was getting plenty of fats plus meat and cheese, lots of cheese.

At this stage, I am that thin that I look like a junkie so the only way I know to put weight on is to add some more carbs as I can't see me putting any weight back on by sticking to the diet.

I will try it again once I have put some weight back on.

Gabriel, I watched the vid, cheers. I think fasting will kill me right now as I am dangerously thin.
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TonySa

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #104 on: April 07, 2019, 09:51:02 AM »

When you wish to stop weight loss you add carbs back in until you stabilize and then stay at that carb level each day.  It’s not the same for everyone.  Best to not focus on refined carbs.
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skunkworks

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #105 on: April 07, 2019, 10:41:39 AM »

I also tried full carnivore (just red meat) but extreme fatigue set in and I had to stop.

When you did this what cuts of meat were you eating?
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NeoV

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #106 on: April 07, 2019, 10:35:35 PM »

It took me at least 3 months to be adapted and not feel a kind of struggle within my body. Then you simply stop needing to eat, really at all. The way I got past the transition was just eating a lot, and I mean a lot, of veggies and meat. That probably wasn't the best choice but it worked, considering how bad my symptoms of IR were. Now I am weaning myself OFF meat in order to go lower insulin. I really just eat veggies, coconut oil, and avocados etc now, with a bit of fish or nuts. Nuts are also okay on keto, despite the carb count. Peanuts are lower insulin triggering than meat. The carb count is not the end all. Simply eat a bag of nuts daily.

The other thing to keep in mind is that salt is really key, and even eating salt directly in place of carbs can snap you into a good feeling state. The brain's carb craving mechanism is somehow intertwined with the salt craving mechanism, and we literally cannot tell the difference between carb cravings and salt cravings. Even if you think you got enough salt, sometimes just eating it directly can fix you completely. For example, I may eat two avocados, salted. But after if I don't quite feel right I'll simply eat more salt and boom, I'm fixed for the entire day.

birdman73

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #107 on: April 08, 2019, 03:19:55 AM »

@Bent Ding Dong

You really need the fat to get the energy benefit. What other fats are you eating other than the bottle of olive oil per week? 
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Gabriel

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #108 on: April 08, 2019, 03:55:06 AM »

Hey Bent Ding Dong,

I feel you mate: ketosis is a long, mysterious and individualized process, and personnally even after 3 months in I still don't understand why I feel this way or this way sometimes. If it can help you, from the (whole bunch of) knowledge I gathered about the metabolic and biochemical processes of the keto diet, I don't see how it could ever be "not suitable" for this or this individual. I do not know why it's so hard on you though, but here are two things that I would have liked to understand sooner:
- At first, going below 30g of carbs is not enough at all; I started entering real and beneficial ketosis (again, buy a keto mojo bro, really!) when I went under 10g total carbs/day, with lowish protein, low dairy (which for some reason tends to mess GI tract and overall feeling for me) and a huge proportion of fat (+ a good multivitamin to compensate the lack of veggies). Now, after 1-2 months of this regimen, I can add much more veggies or nuts and stay in strong ketosis (2-2,5 mmol/L).

- Even if it's recommended +++, do NOT implement IF when you feel your metabolism is under some serious stress, fatigue or general lack of well-being. This not so for nutritional reasons (you're not properly lacking of nutrients), but more, I suspect, from psychological reasons (cutting carbs = huge inconscious/somatic stress, so you'll want to compensate by adding more food more often in order to avoid extreme fatigue/anxiety spurs like I had).

Anyway, if indeed you feel too skinny and exhausted, try taking a break and then starting keto again in another fashion (I highly recommend you Dr Bozworth + Dr Berg's videos in order to fully understand what going on and how you should handle it).


@Neo: God mate it's a relief to read that: I'm feeling too that I'm still struggling with my metabolism sometimes, and this has been worrying me a lot as I thought I should have been quite fully fat-adapted by now... Moreover, I can confirm for the confusion between sugar/salt cravings (theoretically at least, as I read somewhere, but never experienced it personnally... I'll try your technique Neo!).

PS: I just remembered a "bad" news: on my pre-keto blood check, my fasted insulin was already very low (like 2-3): does that mean IR wouldn't be the root cause of my Peyronie's? Grrrrr it's so frustrating to be still inflammatory after 18+ months...
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- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

Bent Ding Dong

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #109 on: April 08, 2019, 05:59:41 AM »

Thanks for the feedback guys.

@skunkworks, When I tried carnivore, I was eating 2 big fat rib eye steaks with lots of marbling and 500 grams of mince in a day. The first day I was as fatigued as I had ever been, I was pretty much on the lounge all day (lucky it was a Saturday). I kept going on the Sunday and although I felt slightly better, I was still way too fatigued and I had to got to work the next day so I had to scrap the carnivore and go back to keto on the Monday. This was a month or so ago. If I didn't work, this would be so much easier to do as I could ride it out and just lay down when I need to.

@birdman73, I was eating around 2 kilos of cheese a week. Also had olive oil, fish oil, lots of salmon, rib eye steaks so plenty of fat. Was eating big portions. I read that lipase helps to digest fats, maybe I'll try that?

@Gabriel, thanks for the tips.



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Bent Ding Dong

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #110 on: April 08, 2019, 06:24:20 AM »

This video has given me inspiration to try carnivore again at some stage:  https://youtu.be/q9wdYQfQpow?t=767

Dude is 52 and holds a world record for indoor rowing and only eats meat.

I need to put on some weight first before trying again and also wait until I can take a week off work so that the switch to fats can take place while I ride out the fatigue.

Only other downside is the cost of all the meat. It's not cheap, especially in Aus.
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NeoV

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #111 on: April 08, 2019, 06:34:17 AM »

Gabriel,

I strongly think there is more to the story than just hyperinsulinemia and high blood sugar, but I also think we are 100% on the right track and doing the right thing. I suspect it comes down to mitochondria again, or simply the genes that have been identified (wnt), or other glucose related pathways. I'll be looking into this in more detail again later this week and forward. I should also be more active here as well (for a few private reasons), so I look forward to it!

birdman73

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #112 on: April 09, 2019, 04:49:00 AM »

@Bent - just my $0.02 as I certainly am not an expert nor completely know your situation...

For me I have to be very careful with dairy, and this includes cheese.  So, maybe the cheese is actually kicking you out of ketosis, which then means your body isn‘t actually using the fat you are eating for energy, so then your are drained.

I strongly suggest getting a Keto-Mojo and doing some measurements to be sure you are in ketosis.

Then, I would also suggest trying to get more fat without so much protein. I read something recently (or maybe it was a YouTube video) about eating a lot of protein (meat) to help with muscle gain but you also then add to consume even more fat to keep you in ketosis...

Also, I suggest varying your fat sources to the many others...like avocados, butter, ghee, coconut oil, MCT oil, macadamia nuts, etc...  Also more veggies especially dark green veggies... 

I eat a huge baby spinach and salad greens salad with tomatoes, avocado, hard boiled eggs, tuna, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, hemp hearts, with lots of salt and pepper and MCT, olive, Pumpkin, and avocado oil and apple cider vinegar once a day, for lunch or dinner.  So yummy, and filling....
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Bent Ding Dong

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #113 on: April 09, 2019, 08:12:23 AM »

@birdman73, thanks for your suggestions. I will have to order a Keto Mojo to see what's really going on and refine my diet based on this. I don't tolerate milk at all but seem to tolerate cheese OK but maybe I just think I can tolerate it because I don't notice any bloating symptoms from it.

OK. I was also having macadamia oil daily but not as much as olive oil.

Doesn't eating those size portions of veggies throw you out of ketosis?
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TonySa

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #114 on: April 09, 2019, 02:48:53 PM »

I’d always add a physical therapy and a nightly PDE5i, and maybe even pentox to keto, IF and/or fasting.
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birdman73

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #115 on: April 10, 2019, 03:28:11 AM »

@Bent I thought that too about veggies but I think if you are careful with which veggies you eat, you are ok. 

I avoid or limit „colorful“ veggies like peppers and carrots....  But I can eat the dark green stuff like crazy and still am in ketosis.  Also cauliflower...  Of course all covered with butter, coconut oil, salt, pepper, etc...

As for cheese...I also can „tolerate“ it as it also doesn‘t bloat me, but when I really checked my blood, my ketone levels went low after consuming too much cheese...  But cooked cheese like a keto pizza doesn’t seem to kick me out...  Go figure...

Another reason why a meter like keto-mojo is important.  To really see what foods do to you....

On another side note but back to the Peyronies Disease topic, I noticed even though I was following strict keto and was having good numbers, and doing IF and fasting even more than 24 hours...my Peyronies Disease was flaring up and was getting painful again.  Then I realized that the new protein powder I was using post workouts was Collagen protein...  While good for keto, since Peyronies Disease is thought to be a build-up of collagen, I stopped taking it and within two days the pain has reduced and the lumps are back down again...
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Gabriel

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #116 on: April 10, 2019, 03:31:44 AM »

Hey Neo, I too feel we're doing the right thing while going keto and IF; there may be something else crucial to add, but at least this is a certitude that comes from both the head and the body. Don't apologize for having a private life; you already have done and still do a great lot for this forum and all the persons here (by the way, I read your document a few days ago; I won't discuss it here but it's just awesome), so thanks a lot man.

@Birdman, Bent: there are contradictory (all legit) opinions about too much protein triggering or not glucose production from amino acids (gluconeogenesis) and thus kicking you out of keto. Personnally, at the beginning of keto, I've clearly experienced that a high protein diet would turn off ketosis (and confirmed it with my ketonemeter); but now, I can actually eat a high protein meal (with lots of fat including MCT oil too) and stay around 2 -2,5 mmol/L, which is great. And for me, too much cheese can be a huge problem for my gut but does not seem to affect my ketones production! So Bent, just do your own experiment on yourself, with a keto mojo :-D!

Last but not least, the veggies. At first, I had the impression that more than 200g avocado/brocolis/spinach per day would slow down my keto-adaptation, so I cut them off and took a good multivitamin to try to compensate. But after 1,5 months in or so, I realized I felt MUCH better with daily brocolis/avocado, so I added back 200-300g of them every day, and they have not prevented me from striking high ketones scores ever since. So, I'd say, go easy on the veggies the first months, then crawl them back up while measuring your ketones until you find your sweet spot.

But damn, all this stuff around the carnivore diet is now tempting me too right now... I'll may try that in a few weeks!

Cheers guy, and Bent Ding Dong take courage in your path of regaining weight and regoing keto :-)!


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- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

Gabriel

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #117 on: April 10, 2019, 03:36:55 AM »

PS: just saw Birdman's last message. I totally agree with you man.

One important point about protein (whey) powder: I thought it was totally harmless during one year of Peyronies Disease (it even has already been discussed here somewhere), but, after going keto, I discovered and experimented several times that my pain/inflammation would flare up very little after drinking my whey isolate, and/or very little after taking L-citrullin (which contains a lot of leucin, at least the brand I used to do). But maybe collagen powder has other properties??

So, I'm beginning to highly suspect anything dramatically increasing M-tor (anabolic pro-inflammatory pathway), such as whey and particularly leucin, to increase pain and inflammation in our junks. This flare up does not happen when I eat a regular medium-high protein post-workout meal though; maybe because the protein is mixed to a lot of fat and does not act so brutally on insulin and M-tor levels. Anyway, it's interesting to note that everything we are naturally trying to activate with regards to calming the pain and reversing fibrosis converges to the AMPK pathway (the opposite of M-tor: it's catabolic, anti-inflammatory, and triggers autophagy).

But sorry to hijack the thread, we may keep that for another discussion.

Cheers guys
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- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

NeoV

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #118 on: April 10, 2019, 06:09:03 AM »

Whey and BCAAs do cause a major insulin spike and lead to insulin resistance. Interestingly, I got Peyronie's when I was taking three scoops of whey a day and sipping on BCAAs (also drinking beer and eating bread, pasta, etc to gain weight.)

I am now doing OMAD (one meal a day) keto style, so fasting 23 hours a day. My penis is very very elastic and I can feel an obvious difference from before fasting. Keto alone certainly achieves this, but there are degrees, it seems. If I eat therapeutic keto, or go heavy on higher carb things like nuts, for example. Fasting really gets my hands, feet, and penis feeling "real" and alive, as odd as that sounds. To be clear, I now have normal sensation in my body after being keto for two years now, but I still can feel it get even BETTER when I fast.

That said, I have just started OMAD or IF and my body is not used to it. I can feel it adjusting and I am very curious how this works out! I do think that fasting is the only logical conclusion after keto, but I think one should do it keto or low GI if doing IF or OMAD.

My single meal was one broccoli stalk raw with four eggs in a lot of coconut oil. I have been training while fasted as well and it feels just fine.

Bent Ding Dong

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #119 on: April 10, 2019, 08:00:24 AM »

@birdman73, I was on the low carb veggies only for 3 months, then got too fatigued and lost so much weight and added in some sweet potato. To be honest, I have some kind of inflammatory bowel condition and grains, milk and alcohol trigger the inflammation so I avoided them. When on keto I still have bloating but it's minor but I want no bloating at all and suspect that I have a leaky gut and any kind of plant fibers keep irritating the stomach hence why I can't put on any muscle so this is why I was keen to try out carnivore to see if it will heal the gut.

That's strange about the cheese. I know that when I have cheese on a pizza I get really thirsty and feel like something acidic afterwards.

@Gabriel, so too much protein is also no good? I wonder how that Shawn Baker can eat 2kgs (4.4lbs) of red meat a day and be fine? Is it because of the zero carbs forcing the ketones?

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JohnnyDoe

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #120 on: April 10, 2019, 08:25:04 AM »

I am probably not on Keto, not measuring, but I have moved to eating low-carb in a 6-7 hours / day since last month after reading everything here.
I see quite significant improvements at the moment: pain/inflammation reduction, less curve, better erection quality. Hard to say what other factors have had impact on this, but just going by what I have done. Had some numbness last week, but that has resolved itself in a few days.
Therefore, so far so good. Only a bit of weight loss - I am also quite skinny so I do not like to lose weight.

This is what I am eating:

Brunch (12pm):
- 1 slice of bread
- 3 eggs, tomatoes, 3 strips bacon OR kaymak cream (Turkish store)

Snacks:
- Mostly strawberries/blueberries, occasional orange
- Nuts (macadamia, almonds, pecan, few cashews)
- Block of 85% dark chocolate

Dinner (6pm)
- about 4 spoons of rice
- Meat and vegetable mix with meat or fish - cooked with olive oil, salt, pepper, turmeric, cayenne
- Salad (tomato, cucumber, onion, avocado, olives)
- Dark green leaves

Drinks:
- Tea
- Coffee (max 2 times a week)
- Water (sometimes with lemon juice)

Avoiding things I was eating before:
- Soda, fruit juice, alcohol
- Many slices of bread, a lot of rice/pasta, cake, cookies, chips, sugar, jam, cereal, raisons
- Bananas, other fruits containing high levels of sugar
- Not drinking milk or eating too much cheese because of intolerance
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TonySa

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #121 on: April 10, 2019, 09:55:13 AM »

Johnnydoe, how would you quantify your improvement in curvature?
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JohnnyDoe

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #122 on: April 10, 2019, 11:07:33 AM »

@TonySa - good question, and I should have explained this a bit more not to give misinformation or false hopes.

Mar - Dec 2018, I only had mild Peyronies, about a 5° curvature to the left. I did not take it very serious to be honest.
Since Dec 2018, things started getting worse, constant inflammation and I developed a dent left-side below glans. This dent was very painful and also made this area weak, so the curvature increased to 15°+. But I have to say, my erections were also not as strong, maybe because of the pain. I believe that hot water and light manual traction in my case made inflammation worse / prolonged the process. I even got pain at the base.
I have described my change in eating habits in the previous post and since about a week ago I see improvements in pain, erection quality, the dent area is less weak and looks slightly less pronounced, the curvature is back to 5°.

I am not making pictures, but have been measuring throughout the process.
Other factors might be less-to-no masturbation and started icing a few weeks ago whenever I felt pain.
Will write an update if anything changes.
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pey ron

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #123 on: April 10, 2019, 04:05:17 PM »

Whey and BCAAs do cause a major insulin spike

AFAIK BCAAs raise mTOR and cause premature aging...
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Gabriel

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #124 on: April 13, 2019, 04:45:07 AM »

BCAA do raise M-tor because of all the leucin (that's part of why we take them), but I had seen a lot of studies and serious videos or article explaining why they were totally safe and even healthy... Maybe for someone without insulin problems or strong catabolic needs? Anyway, I'm cut them off, so as whey, and feel 100000% better ever since without any loss in muscle mass or performance (also because I run on ketones which are much muscle-sparing).


Bent Ding Dong: I also happen to have sort of a leaky gut issue and more generalli GI tract and transit issues since at least my teenage, which recently turned into an unexplained inflammatory colitis that unexpectedly brought me 4 days to the hospital. That almost life-long issue has been 80% solved with probiotics (bought randomly on Amazon, they're unbelievable), keto diet with IF and some "foodstyle" adjustements (eating slowler, keeping cravings for nuts and cheese at bay).

As for protein, some reliable sources say too much will kick you out of ketosis, some other reliable sources say it won't. Personnally, it has already done so, and after 2 years of trying to build muscle mass while stuffing my mouth with moutains of protein, I can 100% positively tell you that I started to feel WAY much better and had absolutely 0 muscle loss after I cut my protein intake in like 1,5 or 2. The video you posted about this carnivore guy is terrific though... I absolutely have no idea about how a carnivore diet should metabolically and biochemically work, as I haven't investigated this field yet, but it's very interesting.

Neo, be careful buddy, I've found that forcingly implementing systematic OMAD had been very painful and counter-productive for me (spurs of weakness, anxiety and depressionish symptoms), even while 2 months in keto. Maybe you'll react better as you're long deep into this, but I just wanted to remind you to go easy if you feel any trouble! Oh and for you and anyone who wants to cut off the BCAA, I think I can now recommend something I'm testing this days: a shaker with potassium chloride (1 tsp), magnesium sulfate (1/2 tsp) and pink salt (2 tsp)... I've been sipping it for like 3-4 hard weightlifting sessions these weeks, and it felt really good (maybe because placebo? It's to early to tell, but it's cheap and tastes good so you can try too!).





Logged
- 31 yo, very healthy lifestyle, Peyronies Disease with Erectile Dysfunction, pain, distal hourglassing & length loss since 09/01/17, still acute.
- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

Bent Ding Dong

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #125 on: April 13, 2019, 08:41:46 PM »

@Gabriel: That's no good about the hospital stay and having to deal with leaky gut. I too have been through a lot with it and it's been ongoing for the last 20 years. I've had no luck with probiotics. Have tried just about every kind of probiotic there is. I've had the most luck with keto when it comes to reducing bloating and a product called Restore for Gut Health.

That Shawn Baker carnivore guy was on the Joe Rogan podcast talking about the carnivore diet back in 2017. I watched the whole thing and many things he mentioned caught my attention such as his testosterone levels went up and his libido increased on the carnivore diet as well as no more join pains. He put his Dad on it the diet too and his Dad's muscle mass increased without doing any exercise. He has a website called meatheals.com where there are literally hundreds of people who post their carnivore experiences and there are some very interesting stories on there.

I am still keen to try carnivore as I have some time off work coming up and hope to be fat adapted before I return.
 
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NeoV

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #126 on: April 13, 2019, 11:29:27 PM »

Thanks Gabriel.

I have been OMAD since Tuesday (now Sunday), and I am getting additional benefits in penis/hand/feet sensitivity, energy, and mood. I still can't quite believe it. I am seeing that "time without food" is the real key here for me, while also staying keto or low insulin.
Penis tip is sensitive and hands and feet are coming even more "online" compared to before, I am just stunned, even if it makes sense.
I do sometimes eat salt but otherwise I am not tired at all. If anything I have more energy when lifting weights fasted, which has been simply great.

zipolite

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #127 on: July 25, 2019, 07:19:48 AM »

Hey guys

It's been a while since I posted here and a year since the onset of my peyronies.

I am happy to report that my treatments are working. I have gone from a 35 degree curvature to around 15 degrees. Strangely, most of the change have happened over the last 4 to 6 weeks.

I stayed with the treatments noted on my signature line but dropped the suppliments about 4 months ago. I increased the amount of manual traction around the same and feel that has had the biggest impact on the curve.

I plan on maintaining my low carb diet as I believe that plays a big role in prevention. I also plan on continuing manual traction for penile health as per NeoV's recommendations in his videos

So patience is need but in my opinion this was a better option than meds or surgery.

Zipolite
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65 – yrs

Peyronies Disease since July 2018 – 35 degrees to the left - treatment started Sept 1 

Treatment;  Oral – ALCAR, L-Carnitine, CO Q 10. Diet; low carb and time restricted eating (6 to 8 hours). Manual traction, introduced VED Nov 1. Exercise regular

Gabriel

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #128 on: August 01, 2019, 04:48:24 AM »

Hey Zipo,

It's very nice to hear from you man! I'm really happy to see that you've got so good improvements. Congratulations!

After 7 months in, I now also believe that a keto diet + fasting lifestyle (I mean, more than the regular 18/6 IF) is the best way to prevent inflammation and unwanted cell proliferation. If only it could act as a cure for me, as it did for some fellow members (mostly JS and Skunkworks I think) !...

Anyway, keep on taking care of yourself, and see you man!


Logged
- 31 yo, very healthy lifestyle, Peyronies Disease with Erectile Dysfunction, pain, distal hourglassing & length loss since 09/01/17, still acute.
- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

PDTX

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #129 on: September 05, 2019, 09:00:43 AM »

Hey guys, first post on this forum for me. I am 37 and have been suffering from Peyronies Disease for about 12 months. My disease presented with an extremely painful erection that I wrote off initially, but subsequent pain and a lump led me to see a urologist and confirm Peyronies Disease. I was told to wait and see and take vitamin E. A few months later I had another painful erection episode which created a hard mass that restricted blood flow to the head, very similar to what Birdman has described. 

I can also attest that the lumps feel like they change size and hardness from day to day, but have not been able to isolate what does that. What I can say is staying in ketosis does seem to keep the pain away for me, and the loss of body fat helps to offset some of the self esteem issues that come from our disease. I normally have high blood pressure and suffer from generalized anxiety disorder, both of which have been shown in studies to get worse with sugar consumption. High blood pressure has been shown to be a risk factor for Peyronie's in previous studies as well, so that might explain why we reduce our pain levels significantly while in ketosis.

I am also interested in intermittent fasting and will try the 16/8 method while upping fats during my window. Best of luck to everyone on here!
Logged
Peyronies Disease started Dec '18
Currently 18 deg upward curve, stable last 3 months
Using:
Penimaster Pro 6-10 hrs / day
VED 2-3 sessions / wk
L-Carnitine, L-Arginine, CoQ-10, Cialis

Gabriel

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #130 on: September 05, 2019, 09:32:04 AM »

Hey PDTX,

Welcome among us man. Glad to see that the ketogenic diet works for you, that is great news. You'll see that the longer you do it, the more you keep reaping more benefits months after months.

About IF, starting with 16/8 is a good idea; but when you feel it's OK for your body, try to creep it to 20/4, and then OMAD, while injecting some 3 days fasts here and there during the year: it makes a big, big difference regarding autophagy, inflammation lowering and tissue repairing.

If you're interested, you can do a lot of research about these topics that are now quite extensively studied and confirmed. You can begin with Dr Berg, Dr Bozworth or Dr Pelz videos on Youtube, then get deeper in the studies and articles if you like to.

Bye,

G
Logged
- 31 yo, very healthy lifestyle, Peyronies Disease with Erectile Dysfunction, pain, distal hourglassing & length loss since 09/01/17, still acute.
- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

MacMathuna

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #131 on: June 27, 2020, 09:39:39 AM »

Has keto actually helped anybody with peyronie's deformity? e.g. softening /size reduction of peyronie's plaques?

I believe my Peyronies Disease is 100% trauma induced (one distinct trauma event), and my loss of sensation is from nerve damage/ plaques blocking sensitive tissue.


I went keto for a few weeks and I really disliked it. I just don't feel up for totally changing my lifestyle if there's no real reason to think it will do anything for my Peyronies Disease symptoms and if it will take 3-6 months before it has any potential effect at all.

Logged
27 yr/o
Symptoms presented August 20, 2019
Slight bend to the left and down
downward hinging
distal hourglassing
loss of sensation

Shafted

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #132 on: June 27, 2020, 10:09:36 PM »

Hi Mac,

I’ve had improvement and keto is one of the techniques I employ.  Peyronies is an inflammatory disease and a ketogenic diet helps to reduce inflammation so at the very least it may help slow its progression. Aside from the possible positive impact on Peyronies, I really like the way I feel on a ketogenic diet.  To be honest, I don’t know that a few weeks is long enough to experiment with Keto.  We’re you strict on the diet or half in half out?  What did your diet consist of?
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MacMathuna

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #133 on: June 28, 2020, 02:17:49 PM »

Hey, Shafted.

I totally hear that two weeks isn't enough. I was shooting for 3 months, but it just didn't feel worth it. Plus I was starting other modalities like traction and DMSO and it all just felt like too much.

That being said, I feel like I was pretty consistent for those 2 weeks.

Mostly chicken, salmon, leafy greens--a lot of spinach and kale, a lot of eggs, olive oil, coconut oil, butter, heavy cream, cheese, almond milk, avocado, tomato, broccoli, cauliflour, a lot of ginger/turmeric/black pepper tea for inflammation, flax seed, peanut-butter in moderation, garlic.
I very occasionally cheated and had a tortilla chip or two.

I was consistantly under 30g net carbs daily, which maybe isn't perfect? Maybe 20 would be better, but that just didn't feel managable.

I found it really difficult to get enough calories on Keto. I felt really lethargic most of the time. I lost probably ten lb in the two weeks that I did it, and I'm already naturally pretty skinny. Also, Keto is expensive :/
All in all, it just doesn't feel like a sustainable choice for me, but if there's a reasonable chance that it will help, I'd be willing to stick it out for a sixth month spell at some point.

I hear that keto helps to reduce inflammation, but why not just follow an anti-inflammatory diet. There's so many anti-inflammatory foods that you have to limit or wholesale cut out on keto e.g. onion, garlic, roots like turmeric and ginger. Plus there's foods that are high in anti-oxidants, which I think is also good for inflammation e.g. beets, chocolate, etc.
I'm just saying that there are ways of reducing inflammation that feel WAY more accessible to me.

I'm not trying to trash Keto, I'm just feeling skeptical. Open to trying it again if I feel like it would help. But it is just such a big lifestyle change that I don't think I could manage motivating myself to do it unless I had some real reason to believe it would help me more than if I just loaded up on turmeric and black pepper.

Logged
27 yr/o
Symptoms presented August 20, 2019
Slight bend to the left and down
downward hinging
distal hourglassing
loss of sensation

Shafted

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #134 on: June 28, 2020, 09:36:00 PM »

Hi Mac,

Keto is definitely not for everybody because we are all different.  I find I have significantly more energy and less brain fog when I’m in Ketosis.  Your list of foods looks good... If you were lethargic I’d say you’re not consuming enough fat - this is probably the number one mistake people make.

I think Keto can be cost effective depending on what you buy.  If you’re ballin on a budget you’re probably not eating Ribeye every night for dinner. Maybe you throw in more ground beef for example.  The way I see it is this.... I can spend $100,000 extra on healthy delicious food throughout my life and not have health problems when I’m older or I can eat crap and spend the 100K on medical bills.  I choose the healthy delicious food!

If you try Keto in the future, I’d recommend getting keto strips to piss on.  These little suckers will tell you whether or not you are in ketosis.  Very handy when first starting out!

— Shafted

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NeoV

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #135 on: June 28, 2020, 09:54:29 PM »

If keto is hard for you (or carnivore), it generally means you need to do it because you're addicted to glucose. It took me months indeed!
As far as keto strips, they are mostly unreliable so go for a blood monitor such as Keto mojo. That said, you are not either in ketosis or not, this is not worth thinking about really. Think about insulin spiking foods (avoid them) and your body will do the rest.

MacMathuna

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #136 on: June 29, 2020, 03:44:12 PM »

My main issue isn't that it's hard from a physical point of view.
My lethargy was definitely because I just wasn't getting enough calories on keto.

My issue is that I'm skeptical that it will do anything at all regarding my peyronie's disease.
I don't really encounter people on these threads who actually attest that they had a reduction in penile deformity, softening of plaques, etc. BECAUSE of a ketogenic diet.

Neo, I hear that diet has helped you a lot, and I buy that, but I also think our cases of Peyronie's disease are incredibly dissimilar. From the posts of yours that I have read, your Peyronies Disease seems to be mostly genetic with no discrete trauma event, and seems to be very connected to other health issues that you have e.g. numbness in your hands and feet. I also thing you've mentioned never having a palpable plaque.
I, on the other hand, had a trauma event, with most of my symptoms presenting immediately after the trauma, and I have palpable plaques.
We've both experienced some loss of sensation/numbness, but my loss of sensation is distinctly located in the places where I can palpate plaques, and as such I suspect that it's caused by scars covering over more sensitive tissue.

All that is to say, I think that our peyronie's cases are super different, and what works for you may not work for many others. My first concern in treating my Peyronies Disease right now is reduction in plaque density, volume, etc. and I haven't encountered much evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that keto does a jot to help reduce penile scars.

I hope I haven't mischaracterized your condition, Neo. I'm just going on memory.

Anyway, I'm opened to be convinced, and I'd love to hear any accounts of improvement in plaque due to keto.

Shafted, I'm also curious what your diet looked like before getting on keto.
Logged
27 yr/o
Symptoms presented August 20, 2019
Slight bend to the left and down
downward hinging
distal hourglassing
loss of sensation

TonySa

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #137 on: June 29, 2020, 10:50:47 PM »

If there’s an anti-inflammatory diet that works for you-go with it.  If not, there are other anti-inflammatory treatment strategies.
Logged
PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

NeoV

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #138 on: June 30, 2020, 09:43:38 AM »

Fasting and keto is unique in ways that cannot be ignored. BHB itself blocks tfg-beta and HDAC which was proposed as a way to treat peyronie's in a paper. Insulin is just massive, regardless of if you had an injury or not. People on keto recover faster from surgeries (injuries), this is well recognized now.

For the record, my Peyronie's symptoms (dents) began at 18 or so. At that time, I could have thought it was an injury. Then at 24 I did have a minor kind of injury that made things get much worse. It wasn't until I was 27 that my feet and hands began to go numb. My father, who also has Peyronie's, did not notice hand numbness until he was much older, yet he got Peyronie's younger due to certain incidents he could have perceived as traumas. I bring up neuropathy in my videos because most men don't even notice that they have it.

Interestingly, I have a friend (and I know other guys) who bang up their dick during sex in terrible ways multiple times, claiming it "almost snapped, it hurt all week afterward" over the last 6 years or longer I have known them. Never once did they get any bending or deformity.

MacMathuna

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #139 on: June 30, 2020, 10:05:40 AM »

Thanks for the clarifications, Neo.

What is Bhb? Tfgb beta? Hdac?

Maybe I will try again at some point.
Logged
27 yr/o
Symptoms presented August 20, 2019
Slight bend to the left and down
downward hinging
distal hourglassing
loss of sensation
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