PENTOX - Side effects

[swolf]

C0Q10 is quite expensive, it's worth it? Anyway, I'll buy some ALC to add.

Honestly, I can't say if it's worth it or not. Maybe others notice an effect and can give their opinion, but as for me: I started taking both near the beginning of 2012 and continue to because they seem to help and there is research backing them up, but it's hard to say how things would have been different otherwise. I guess I'm just trusting that they have slowed the progression. I think, but am not sure, that I wasn't able to take them for a few days and had an increase in pain and symptoms. There is a 3 for 1 sale going on at Puritan.com for eight more days and they ship internationally. With the sale it might be more cost effective than a European source, I don't know. I know ACL is said to help with anxiety also.

I think you should give the VED a try. Especially this one: http://www.diabetessupplies4less.com/94009701.html. Like I said in another thread, I can help you out with outfitting it into a three cylinder device if you do decide to buy it. If Pentox is not an option the VED is one of the other highly recommended treatments, and you should start as soon as you can.  

[james1947]

A good explanation regarding CoQ10 can find in the link bellow:
CoQ10 |Coenzyme Q10 | Uses, Side Effects, Safety, and Claims of CoQ10

James

[jacob]

Thanks, many thanks, guys

I'm going to try everything that could help me, since I not tolerate Pentox. I'm convinced that a good blood flow is essential in this problem.  

[finarod]

One remark on side effects:

I switched from normal release trental tablets (that reach peak levels in blood in 1-1.5 hour) to sustained release pentox capsules (that reach peak levels in blood in 2-4 hours). I would say that side effects are much more less. Dizziness and sleep abnormality are gone.

Moreover, sustained release capsules helps also fighting inflammation for longer hours.

finarod.

[Jonbinspain]

A question. I currently seem to have minimal problems with blood flow - I can achieve an erection fairly easily L- arginine + regular gym work has helped with this. Given the side effects of Pentox, is it still worth taking it for the possible plaque reducing action, or would the risk and cost be superfluous in my case?  

[james1947]

Jonbinspain

Pentox is a blood thinner. You should ask your doctor if it can harm you.
If you begin to take it, take 400gr for a week or 10 days and then increase to 2*400 daily.
Also as Finarod has written, the sustained release have less side effects (also for me).
Regarding the price, I don't know in Europe, in the US is $0.15 per pill.

James

[George999]

A question. I currently seem to have minimal problems with blood flow - I can achieve an erection fairly easily L- arginine + regular gym work has helped with this. Given the side effects of Pentox, is it still worth taking it for the possible plaque reducing action, or would the risk and cost be superfluous in my case?

1)  Healthy erections do not necessarily indicate healthy blood flow.  You can have damage to capilaries in your penis and still achieve healthy erections.

2)  Pentoxifylline does a lot more than thin the blood.  It also blocks TGF-beta1 which is a major key to its anti-Peyronie's qualities.

In light of the above, I would certainly recommend Pentox.  If you take it for a few months and don't get any benefit, or experience intolerable side effects, you can always stop taking it.  

- George

[pless]

I've taken pentox for 14 months.  Just now seeing this abstract for a 2003 article scared me, since I'm waiting on a slow cancer, and I've quit pentox.  

[Hawk]

Seems to raise mor questions than it answers but I have always avoided pentox.  Because of a past prostate cancer history, I have been unwillingness to risk the chance that the immune suppression nature of pentox might fan the flame (of sparks if they still exist).  I have a profuse family history of cancer as well.

[George999]

Both cancer and Peyronie's have at their roots immune system dysfunction.  Being at risk for one means being at risk for the other.  It is highly typical of immune system dysfuntion for auto-immune activity to be co-present with cancer and/or excessive vulnerability to infectious disease.  This is why people with Diabetes face both higher cancer risk AND higher risk of auto immune syndromes like Peyronie's.

The human immune system is closely linked with insulin levels.  There is emerging evidence that high insulin levels indirectly suppress the human immune system via growth hormone secretion.  Diabetics tend to have high insulin levels, since they require more insulin to counter insulin resistance at the cellular level.  But one does not have to be diabetic to have excessively high insulin levels.  There is actually a test for this condition wherein a patient is given a large amount of sugar and then there serum insulin levels are measured.  But it is very likely that typical western diet high in refined carbohydrates is driving high insulin levels which, in turn, is driving a higher rate of immune dysfunction issues such as elevated cancer rates and elevated rates of diseases ranging from diabetes to lupus to peyronie's.

In fact, insulin has the same effect of suppressing the immune system in other creatures as well, which causes some bizaare consequences.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120626061206.htm

 - George

[Hawk]

George,

Without thinking much about this I would tend to blurt out in response to your first paragraph -> Cancer indeed indicates immune system failure but Peyronies Disease is auto-immune related meaning the immune system gone awry, over-activating and turning on the the body instead of invaders or wound processes in which case immune suppression would have its own benefits.  Drugs treating some other auto-immune disease like rheumatoid arthritis and psoriasis also leave one vulnerable to some cancers and other diseases. So while they both indicate an immune system problem it seems on the surface that the problems with the immune system are different with one each.  

[pless]

Hawk, and prostate cancer (my worry too) is a unique cancer among other unique cancers.  Since several urologists have published on treating Peyronies with pentox it's likely some of them knew the Polish paper and deemed it not a problem for PCa.

[George999]

Hawk,  What you are stating is the classic view of the immune system, but right now a LOT of immune system researchers are disputing that view.  They are saying that auto-immunity has absolutely nothing to do with the strength of the immune system, but rather, among other things, of a lack of sufficient numbers of a certain type of specialized T cell (T-Reg http://www.imgenex.com/Regulatory_cell.php ) that enables the immune system to properly IDENTIFY threats to the health of the body.  Thus it actually reflects a weakness in the immune system.  I personally very much subscribe to this view which is why I take immune system boosters like Vitamin D and Low Dose Naltrexone.  I believe this simplistic misconception is a major reason why current treatments are so terribly ineffective.  Auto Immunity and Cancer are both rampant in the world today and after spending billions of research dollars over decades, the medical establishment can still barely treat either of these scourges effectively.  Additionally, it is why so many of the treatments for each of these disease groups is so draconian.  Who can understand why they actually often use exactly the same immune system suppressing drugs to treat auto immune diseases as they use to treat cancer.  Wrong direction on both counts.  And although these treatments exhibit effectiveness in the short term, they usually fail in both cases in the long term.  Much of that failure revolves around that fact that so many researchers are basing their work on a faulty understanding of how the immune system functions and the environmental and metabolic factors that affect it.  That said, I would certainly exercise caution with Pentoxifylline in regards to cancer.  But I think that pless is probably correct in assuming that the Peyronie's experts already have this issue figured out and would not be prescribing Pentox to cancer patients if it were actually an issue.  - George  

[swolf]

I'm trying to get a handle (again) on the anxiety-producing effects of Pentox, and I'm wondering if it's mainly because it is raising blood pressure? (sorry, this may have been addressed a million times, but it's late, I'm tired and can't remember) If Pentox pushes bloodflow to the extremities, does that also include the head? If the veins in my arm were any indication, my blood pressure was pretty high, haha. I'm just wondering if the only stumbling block for using Pentox for me is being able to keep blood pressure lowered (something I've never worried about before; blood pressure is a new thing to me).

[swolf]

Well, I've been taking one pill of Pentox a day for two days now and things are going all right. I've been eating a huge breakfast and taking it then. I can definitely (though it has faded now in the afternoon somewhat) feel the effects that build into the very unpleasant side effects for me, but at this level they are tolerable. I am in a better spot (though my Peyronie's is far worse) mentally and in life than I was earlier this year so that is probably helping, and Stabilium continues to be a great supplement for combating my anxiety. All I can do is wait and see if I will be able to keep this up. I really hope as the Pentox builds up in my system the effects don't increase. But at the moment I am pleasantly surprised, so all I can do is wait. I will bump it up to two pills a day if I am able but I don't think, considering my body weight and the mental side effects, that three will ever be needed or even possible for me to take.  

[james1947]

Swolf

I don't think Pentox increases blood pressure, but is from my own experience.
Try taking it during the meal, not after, maybe will have less side effects.
I am taking now 2*400mg daily during meal morning/evening for the last six months, the side effects are all gone. I will try to take 3*400mg daily from today.

James

[swolf]

Yeah, I've been reading that it lowers blood pressure, but from what I can recall it seemed to raise mine. Maybe I'm not completely understanding what blood pressure is, but it seems pretty obvious, so I think I'm right that it increased mine. Who knows, I am doing well on it at the moment, and that's what I'm focusing on now. And yes, I'm taking it in the middle of my big breakfast.

[George999]

Pentox does NOT lower blood pressure, at least not significantly.  And it does not raise blood pressure directly.  But Pentox can increase low level anxiety, which in turn CAN raise blood pressure.  So there is a pathway via the nervous system whereby Pentox can raise blood pressure.  On the other hand, I know of no pathway by which Pentox can lower blood pressure.  - George

[Hawk]

But Pentox can increase low level anxiety, which in turn CAN raise blood pressure.  So there is a pathway via the nervous system whereby Pentox can raise blood pressure.  On the other hand, I know of no pathway by which Pentox can lower blood pressure.  - George

George, maybe as your penis gets better you have less stress and your blood pressure would come down.  Or even more indirect,  in Norm's case, it made his wife leave

[Jonbinspain]

Am on my third day of taking Pentox. My observations are: firstly, there is definitely a mental side effect. I feel more edgy. Secondly, in my experience, not to be mixed with alcohol. Last night and the night before, I had a couple of beers and a glass of wine with my dinner. I then took the Pentox. Within a couple of hours I couldn't keep my eyes open. As hard as I tried, the only way to stay awake was to get up and move around.
Thanks to those who recommended River Pharmacy. Even with their slightly extortionate mailing charges, it was still  the cheapest source I could find. As I can't get an appointment with the Urologist until January, it will give me time to see if this works for me.  

[another_one]

Hi everyone,
I am fighting this disease since the beginning of April. Among pills I am taking (such as POTABA) I am taking Trental. I have a question: during last three months I hive experienced Hematospermia. Is there any correlation between the use of Pentox in this phenomenon?

Thanks a lot.

[james1947]

One of the side effects of Pentox may be internal bleeding. This what my uro told me when he prescribed it to me.
I didn't have such side effects, now increased to 3*400mg per day.
In my opinion you should try to find out from the list of the pills you are taking who can make such side effect.
I am proposing you to read more about Potaba on the forum, not too much successful stories and I didn't remember reading about no one taking Potaba and Pentox at the same time. I may be wrong.

James  

[another_one]

Hi James,
two doctors suggested me to do it. However, these first two doctors indicated to me to use a small amount of POTABA (60 and 600mg) combined with PENTOX. The third one increased the POTABA to higher levels (6 grams/day). He also told me to discharge PENTOX because useless...I decided to use a high level of POTABA and to not discharge PENTOX. Finally, I have carefully read any post of the forum and I thank you for your help and suggestion. I will inform you of the progress.

Thanks again

PS: as I posted in another section "PENTOX - ALTERNATIVES " in my case it seems to work...I will inform this community of the results.

[ldhw]

For me I have noticed increased anxiety and a bit of trouble catching my breath. The worst is that it messes with my sleep. I also agree that it increases alcohol's effects DRAMATICALY. Drinking before bed on pentox also makes the insomnia worse.

[james1947]

When I begin taking Pentox I had some mild side effects. Anxiety and a general feeling of not being well, some stomach discomfort, excessive sweating. I didn't stop drinking, I mean beer mainly, not heavier alcohols.
Started with one 400mg during breakfast, after one week added one during dinner not latter than 06:00 PM. The side effects gone slowly slowly and I can say that today, after six months have no side effects. I think my body get used to Pentox.
Three days ago I started to take one at lunch also so now 3*400mg daily, no side effects as for today.
I hope all the other Pentox fans   will have the same experience with side effects during time.

James

[George999]

The big concern with Potaba is long term liver damage.  Other than that, it is effective in treating Peyronie's, at least in the short term.  - George

[Skjaldborg]

I took pentox for a total of 8 months. Here is my list of good effects and bad side effects:

The bad:

1. stomach discomfort, particularly with acidic foods
2. strange dreams if I took it too late at night
3. a little more jittery feeling than normal, worse with coffee
4. a slight feeling of detachment or not caring, but this may have been due to the psychological aspects of the disease

The good:

1. reduced peyronie's pain in a matter of weeks
2. decreased recovery time from long runs (probably due to more oxygen and less inflammation)
3. improved erections
4. increased sperm motility (my wife got pregnant right away)
5. improvements in size and decreased plaque size

Skjaldborg

*edit: spelling

[james1947]

I have mentioned in the past that if I have the flue I stop taking Pentox because I am afraid it is suppressing the immune system.
Last flue, started 10 days ago, I didn't stop taking Pentox, the flue gone as fast as without Pentox.
Maybe it is not affecting my immune system anymore? Or maybe never does?

James

[swolf]

Well, I can tolerate Pentox at this point! I've been taking it since my post a few weeks ago, and in the past few days have increased it to two pills a day. A week or two ago I had indigestion and stomach pain problems, but those went away and haven't been a problem since. I do feel on edge sometimes and have had a horrible time falling asleep, but I think (not 100% sure) this is the first time I've tried Pentox while on a continual dosage of Stabilium, and that is probably crucial. I foresee being able to take at least two pills a day for a while. My condition is in a very bad place at the moment, so this is the first ray of hope in a while. I'm really conflicted over whether to add the VED back in as it has caused me immense damage and is one of the reasons I'm not in a minor, relatively stable stage anymore.

To anyone that can't take Pentox because of anxiety, keep trying! You literally can't get worse anxiety than I've had at times, and I seem to be functioning on Pentox. It just takes experimentation and sometimes setting things aside and waiting 2, 4, 6 months or something. But it's better late than never.

[user of no names]

I have used pentox off and on for 7 years.  I had a couple ulcers for awhile and this affected me taking it.  I believe that the pentox contributed towards my stomach issues but the 20 pills of ibuprofen a day didnt help.  My stomach issues have resolved and I have been taking 2-3 day for months now with no issues.  I do take prilosec once a day and this does help keep my stomach in check.  Eat some food with it and you should be fine.  Pentox has helped a lot and is well tolerated if used right.

[Hawk]

I can assure you that it would be a miracle if you took 20 ibuprofen a day and did NOT have bleeding ulcers.  If you were taking any where close to that there is no reason at this point to attribute it to Pentox.    

[Sargonnas]

I can assure you that it would be a miracle if you took 20 ibuprofen a day and did NOT have bleeding ulcers.  If you were taking any where close to that there is no reason at this point to attribute it to Pentox.

Amen to that.  

[funnyfarm]

I switched from Trental non extended release to pentox extended release "Aventis" purchased from river pharmacy in india.

I noticed:  
my hands and feet stay red longer at night now.
I do not wake up with the bad taste in my mouth.
no longer stomach upset.

I wonder if I can take them without food now.   Anyone else using the river pills ?.  I was surprised when I received them as the website description did not indicate Extended release, but it is clearly written on the packaging.   I also noticed the pills are thicker than the trentals but also 400mg so they obviously are using different binders/fillers.  One downside is the long time they took to arrive by mail, almost a month.

[james1947]

I am using Trental from riverfarmacy and very happy with the results.
I increased recently from 2*400mg to 3*400mg daily and no side effects. I am taking it always with food but in a few occasion I tacked late or after the meal and no side effects. It was not possible when I have started because of the severe side effects but now is fine.

James

[MattFoley]

The only side effect I've had and sometimes still have with Pentox is the frequent urinating at night. Some nights I fill half a gallon of urine. Yes, I piss into a clear plastic jug at night to measure the amount of urine I excrete.

When I first started Pentox, I urinated an entire gallon the first night and became severely dehydrated. I had to ease myself into it by slowly increasing the dosage as per a forum member's recommendation.

Other than that, no problems. Thank God.

[swolf]

I can and do take three pills a day now. It puts me slightly on edge and I would rather not take it in that regard, but of course I'm not going to let that stop me. It is NOTHING like the reactions I've had in the past. The edginess I have now is mental and in most cases can be managed by being consciously aware of thought patterns that might turn to anxiety and not letting those progress into full-blown tension. Not always easy but it's certainly manageable and so I'm very relieved to be able to take three pills a day now. Hopefully I can reverse the extreme damage the VED caused me and get back to where I was earlier this year, though it seems like a long road to even get there. We'll see.  

[funnyfarm]

Matt,

I have the same issue as you, excess urination.  I take 3 x 400mg.  The other side effects seem to lesson over time but I am still at the toilet much more than normal Also the situation is aggravating my prostate (more so than normal w/o pentox).  

[james1947]

funnyfarm

What you mean by "aggravating my prostate (more so than normal w/o Pentox)"?
How the prostate is influenced?

James

[funnyfarm]

My prostate is always tender, but more so on the pentox.  Not to the point that I would go off the drug, but that and the increased urination are a nuisance..

[MattFoley]

funnyfarm,

Try not to drink any fluids a few hours before going to sleep and if you're crazy like me, keep an empty water jug by your bed so you can urinate without having to go the toilet which takes time and disturbs your sleep. I just stand up, piss, wipe, and drop back into bed. Yep, almost paradise. Of course, I don't have a wife or girlfriend so who knows what a woman would think about that crazy crap.  

However, the Pentox does not seem to cause much of that effect for me anymore now that I've been on it for 10 months. In fact, I increased my dose to 2,400 mg./day and there seems to be only the slightest side effect. Maybe a bit of anxiety but not enough to make me stop.

[Hawk]

Just remember it is no longer a "water"jug  

[Jonbinspain]

I've only been on Pentox for a couple of months. At the moment, I'm on 800mg a day. The anxiety symptoms seem to have mostly abated. As far as excess urination goes, I can't say that I've noticed much difference. I'm 63 and I've had to get up once a night to pee for a couple of years now. I still usually have to get up once a night. Maybe if and when I step the dosage up, I might see a change?

[MattFoley]

Thanks Hawk, I appreciate the reminder.  

I'm now taking about 2,400 mg. of Pentox per day and although I get some stomach discomfort when I don't take it with food and a tiny bit of anxiety, it's no where enough to stop me from taking the larger dose. I had to work up to getting to 1,200 mg. per day but I doubled that dose in one day and had very little additional side effects.

I take 400 mg. every couple of hours with food.

[funnyfarm]

Matt, did the bump up to 2400mg effect the urination frequency ?  And any improvement in peyronies symptoms with the larger dose ? tnx.

[MattFoley]

funnyfarm:

I increased from 1,600 mg. to 2,400 mg. in one day. The only side effect was a little bit of anxiety and some stomach discomfort because I was taking the extra doses on an empty stomach. After the first day or so, I got used to it right away. And, no, I haven't had to urinate anymore than what I was seeing from the 1,600 mg.

I'm guessing the extra urinating was because the Pentox is somewhat of a stimulant and it activates the bladder sphincter to release urine. I now have nights when I wake up to urinate once and some nights when I wake up to urinate 3 or 4 times. But with my "jug o' urine" strategy, I don't have to go all the way to the bathroom which would wake me up and make it harder to go back to sleep.

If you decide to use the jug o' urine technique, be sure to use a thick plastic jug. In the morning, I dump the urine into the toilet and rinse the jug out in the bathtub. Sometimes I will pour a bit of bleach into it to make sure all bacteria is dead and to get rid of any yellowing of the jug. I've been using the same jug now for 7 months.

Yep. This is what my life has come down to.  

[funnyfarm]

Hi Matt, I think in my case I urinate more with the pentox because I feel slightly dehydrated, and my mouth is a little dry.  So I drink double the amount of water I normally do.  I do not wake at night much thankfully.  I would also say I feel sometimes a slight racing heart beat after taking a pill.  At first I thought it was anxiety, but seems to be more just the physical manifestation as opposed to actually feeling worried or anxious.

[George999]

I suspect it is probably anxiety.  Aniety is really a biological thing at its roots.  It is not simply a mental thing of being worried, but being worried causes the biological manifestation.  With a number of drugs, including Pentox, you can end up with the biological side without ever experiencing psychological manifestations.  There is a biological process whereby underlying biological anxiety increases blood pressure and the change in blood pressure causes an increase in urination as the kidneys attemp to cope.  It is also probably not worth it to continue with this for too long.  Give yourself time to adjust and then either find something to mitigate the side effect or, if necessary, stop taking the Pentoxifylline. - George

[MattFoley]

If the side effects of a drug are anxiety, sinusitis, or constipation, I will get that side effect every single time. However, my body quickly adjusts to any medication I take so the side effect is curbed. Pentox is not an exception.

Perhaps consistently taking Pentox for a while will help with the side effects for anyone experiencing anxiety or stomach discomfort. Always taking Pentox with food is essential. Perhaps taking a supplement that has calming effect may be an option to help take some of the edge off.

[funnyfarm]

I also notice much less side effects now and I take a theanine pill at  the first sign of any nervousness.

[swolf]

A question about Pentox. Is the purpose of taking it during a full meal solely to mitigate any bad side effects? I've ended up taking it many times now on an empty stomach, or at least not immediately during a meal, and I don't experience any unwanted side effects that I can tell. But am I losing any of its BENEFITS not taking it with a meal? Is it fully effective either way or should I make an effort to always eat it with a meal?