PAIN related Q&A

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LWillisjr

I would be interested in a copy. I would guess they assume most men would be able to easily tolerate 2 cm beyond flacid length. But if you are not able then certainly back off to something more comfortable. Everyone is different and I think we all are better judges of our limits. Whether traction or VED..... don't over do it.
Developed peyronies 2007 - 70 degree dorsal curve
Traction/MEDs/Injections/Surgery 2008 16 years Peyronies free now
My History

MikeSmith

No prob... I scanned it & sent it to your email.  Since I got it during the office visit, I feel a little weird posting it openly on the web w/o his permission - but I think email is ok...plus you're his pt anyway.

MikeSmith

Hi - I am now about 5-6 months into this, and I've had VIs.  I've used fastsize on and off... and just used the VED a few times.  I only took pentox for a month.

Anyway, I am having a lot of pain - even when flaccid. There is also increased sensitivity - in a bad way.  In the shower, if water hits it (particularly the head) - there is just searing pain.  I have no idea what is going on.  

The pain feels like I had sex 15 times in 1 day & then woke up the next day - but of course I have barely done anything in reality.  I think the VIs have made the pain worse...or is this normal at the 5-6 month stage?  I am implicating the VIs because the pain was severe after the lidocaine wore off & the pain I have now is like 10% of what that pain was.

I am scheduled for a VI next week but I think I will just go in and talk to my doctor about the pain instead.   Something bad is happening in general because I also seem to have lost a 1/2 inch of length from when this all started... I don't know if the scar is contracting or what... but I do know what is going on is not normal for me.

Thanks for any advice.

newguy

I think it'd be a good idea to get back on pentox, and to take a break from VED and traction until the pain decreases. It's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility that the injections are connected to this pain. I'm not sure that I'd like to comment on whether it's a good idea or not to continue with that treatment. Maybe others can contribute?  

Perhaps you can contact Levine. You mentioned elsewhere that he wanted to see you after 6 injections. If you explain the level of pain and how it made you black and blue previously, maybe he will have a view of whether you should continue?


LWillisjr

Agree that you need to discuss with your Doc. He may have had patients with a similar experience or you might be the first So is hard to say what is a "normal" reaction here. Just because you are scheduled for the next injection doesn't mean you have to do it. Let the nurse know you want to discuss your symptoms with the doc first before she shoots you with the Lidocaine.

Les
Developed peyronies 2007 - 70 degree dorsal curve
Traction/MEDs/Injections/Surgery 2008 16 years Peyronies free now
My History

MikeSmith

Hi,  Thanks for the replies.  Yeah, I re-started pentox a few days ago since I heard a lot of positive things about it for pain on this board.

At the next appt, I am going to ask my doc about this pain .  I also now have nodules instead of just a "band" of scar tissue.  The nodules formed exactly where the plaque was...the area is just harder and rounder now.

At this point, I think the plaque has gotten harder and there may be a new lump from where the needle went in that has not hardened (yet).  

Farinthesouth

Hi All, feel very happy finding this site to share common desease sypthoms. My short story: I felt 12 months ago some" roughness" in the dorsal shaft side close to glans. No other sympthom. 7 months ago I begun to fell pain inthe penis tip (meathus), simultaneously I was diagnosed with Bacterial Prostatitis. I´m taking dutasteride and Serecur ( Serenoa Rapens), the pain now is more noticeable, not only at the tip but the glans too, lots of disconfort. I have an apointment with my urologyst next week, and I´ll refer him about my concern of having Peyronie¨s desease. Tha pain is on a "all day basis" except when at bed. Some sort of "hard Tissue" can be felt alongside of middle of shaft. I´ve read a lot of post here, but I would like to have some recommendation about "Pain Management" from previous experiences. Also I noticed two months ago a bent upwards very close to glans.

Thanks in advance for any reply,

P.S Sorry for my English

LWillisjr

Can you share some more details regarding the pain you are feeling. For example is it only during urination (since you mentioned the meatus), is it during a particular time like during and erection, etc.

Bacterial prostatitis would present itself similar to a urninary tract infection and could explain some of the pain. A recent bend that has devleoped could be indicative of peyronies.
Developed peyronies 2007 - 70 degree dorsal curve
Traction/MEDs/Injections/Surgery 2008 16 years Peyronies free now
My History

Farinthesouth

Thanks for your answer and interest Iwillisjr, no during urination I do not feel pain. Pain is located at the meatus, and in the left top of glans. Is felt when is touch or when rubs with the underwear, or when sit.At the inicial stage of pain, some association with prostatitis was made due to the fact that is sometimes this desease has this symthom. Pain is when not erected. Also a discomfort in the glans is felt. If peyronie´s, is there any effective method of reducing pain? Laser ? etc?
Thanks again

MikeSmith

To give an update, my dr. injected kenalog (steroid) for the pain.  There is a published paper that steroids do not help for Peyronies Disease itself but they do help for the pain.  They shouldn't be used a lot, he said - but once a month is probably ok (every other VI).  He did it with the VI numbing solution (20 min before the VI) and I have noticed much less swelling with he VI too.   Hard to tell if I am in pain because I'm still post-VI where everything feels odd...but I'll edit this post & update in a week.   I do think I'm in less pain than before - but I also started back on Pentox last week.  

elysianfields

Mike - thanks for the post. I'm almost 20months into this from the first onset of pain. I have been taking Pentox 3x a day for about 5 months. Hard to tell if its had any effect other than things are certainly no worse than they were 5 months ago. My pain is now what can best be described as "discomfort" ranging from a 1-3 on a 10 scale. Always there when flacid, more so when sitting vs standing. But thankfully the pain is much less noticeable when erect..

The pain you are describing matches where I was at months 2-6, maybe a 8-9. Like you state even a shower can hurt or simply walking. I had to push hard to keep working out at its worst. I haven't worn briefs since the onset.

There were times from 6 months onwards where it almost went away only to come back. I finally got to see a good Uro around 8 months in but other than a Dopler decided not to do anything as my curve is Congenital (has it since a teenager) and around 30 degrees.

I'm going to stick with Pentox for a full year and hope for the best. Hang in there the pain should ease off as time goes on.

MikeSmith

So here's a little update on the pain situation.   First, what's weird is the lack of consistency -- sometimes I have pain when erect, sometimes not...sometimes only after an orgasm...sometimes not...and sometimes when flacid, sometimes not.  

I have stopped trying to prevent it, but I think now that I am 2-3 weeks into the VED protocol and stopped the VIs a month ago, the pain has gone down.  I actually had an extended period of sexual activity (I wouldn't call it "sex" per se thanks to the degree of curve) - and very little pain the next day to my surprise.  I had used the VED that day & in that week.  I don't know if other posters have noticed the VED cuts down pain - or how that could even work... but it seems like it might be having a positive effect.  If not that, then stopping the VIs has helped with the pain.  

The pain didn't improve much right after the kenalog but he only gave me a little bit to start.  I'm not sure if the kenalog had an effect on me, but it is published to have effects (though a different  doc w/ 30+ yrs of practice -- not in urology -- said kenalog causes calcification and I should've used celestone...so that's just an FYI for people on here).

I am also on 5 mg cialis every other day + arginine.  I stopped pentox (again) due to the return of sleep problems.  It seems that this drug doesn't agree w/ my system.   My nighttime erections (when I have them - usually on day 1 of cialis) are not painful really...so that's good.  I think the more of those, the better...as another poster mentioned too.

BrooksBro

Sleep problems - I seem to have improved the length and quality of my sleep by taking my last Pentox of the day earlier, with a very small snack, instead of with supper (usually right before bed).  No problem going to sleep, just sleeping long enough.  I am very early with this change, but encouraging so far.

I tried 10 mg Ambien (non-CR) for a week, and it helped me go to sleep, but not stay asleep later in the morning.  It was no better than benadryl.


Quote from: MikeSmith on July 08, 2010, 12:10:07 AM

I stopped pentox (again) due to the return of sleep problems.


elysianfields

MikeSmith - I agree with your comment about the lack of consistency with the pain driver! I have the same situation. In fact for me the pain is much less when I'm erect which thankfully means that sex is good, its just getting there that's not easy! And the last time I had sex the next day the pain was no worse than before.

The ONLY thing that is consistent for me is the pain is constant at a 2/3 out of 10 and sitting is more uncomfortable than standing.. so maybe that's something that I need to figure out i.e. sitting my penis is retracting and standing its lengthening? (As noted I've been on Pentox and all the supplements for about 6 months now with no improvement/worsening.) I also have less pain when I wake up and can sleep through it no problem.

I think the next step for me the the VED (although I'm not looking to correct my 30 degree left curve). If nothing else I'm hoping that as its consistent with what causes my discomfort to be reduced it may help as a long term solution. I'm taking a trip in a couple of weeks but will start with the protocol upon my return and see how things work out. Keep us posted on how you are progressing.

MikeSmith


Are regular nighttime erections an issue?  I think that may have been one of the contributing factors... cialis + arginine seem to have helped w/ that - and there has been less pain (i think... but it's hard to say what is causing what) & i dont overdo anything sexually.

Trazadone gives u a major nighttime erection w/ cialis...but I got worried i was hard all night...which I dont think is healthy.    

Old Man

MikeSmith:

According to the information that I get from my uros and other sources, any erection lasting longer than 4 hours is definitely not healthy. Permanent damage to the erectile tissue can and will be done if an erection of that length is not ''relieved'' as quickly as possible. In some cases, it has required a trip to an emergency room to have the blood pressure in the penis taken out.

So, I strongly recommend that you find out what is causing the long erections and stop them immediately. You might want to get off your meds for a while to let your body stabilize before resuming them. You could then add one of the meds back at a time to find out which one causes the long erection problem. However, it could be that two or more in combination is the problem.

Anyway, you should take some action ASAP to get to the bottom of this.

Old Man
Age 92. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after
stage four radical prostatectomy in 1995, Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents.
Three more stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries too.

fubar

Mikesmith,I was prescribed Trazadone to help me sleep by my doctor. Used it until it ran out it did help me a little.Later visiting a psychologists I asked him about Trazadone because I heard it helped bring nighttime erections.He told me Trazadone could cause priapism. He said he had a patient who went to the hospital to get help for his painful erection that would not go away on its own.

After hearing this I declined to use the drug! Cialis has worked well for nightime erections. So I think, i don't need more than one drug to accomplish nighttime erections.Besides we all know erections lasting more than four hours can and will cause damage to the penis.

Fubar

MikeSmith

Oh yeah I should've mentioned I meant I didn't think it was healthy to have a full-night erection, so I don't take them all together anymore (trazodone, arganine, cialis) - just arganinie and cialis.  I had taken all 3 together once or twice and both times I kept waking up erect all night. I don't think I had a true priaprism or anything but I was worried that was a little abnormal.  it doesn't happen w/ cialis alone or w/ arganine.  Just no cialis + trazodone together (for me...for others maybe its ok).  Trazodone alone also didn't do too much for nighttime erections.    

abmia

Hi, I am new here. My name is Mike. For the past 7 months of my life I have been dealing with awful penile pain in the head that gets worse when sitting or ejaculating. I can tell that my penis is starting to bend to the left. I feel like I am losing size, and it is difficult to maintain erections unless I am constantly stimulated or turned on. I am currently on nerve medication (lyrica) because no doctor knows what to do with me. The bend is getting more substantial. I know I was born with a slight bend, but I never noticed it before until now. There is also a little piece of skin that feels somewhat harder (urologists dont feel it as a lump, but can see it). When I am erect this area does get harder and pop out a bit (its located about 3/4 of the way up my penis on the left side of the shaft. Another thing which brings pain is bowel movements. The pain I feel constantly is like a sharp, burning pain at the tip of my penis. You can even see that there is redness and inflammation around the meatus. I have been through every test in the book. Some doctors think it could be pudendal neuralgia, though I do not fit the bill since I have not had a trauma to the area. The other pain I feel when it gets very bad is almost like the feeling of a foreign object in the head of my penis, almost like I have urine left in their but really do not. My urination has changed too and varies all the time from pain to frequency to urgency. Every STD and prostatis has been ruled out. When I am not erect and the pain is at its worse my penis feels hard and tight even though it is flaccid and not erect. Has anyone else experienced any kind of pain along these lines? I am a 25 year old male and I am losing my mind with this. By the way I have no pain when erect, it feels a little sore sometimes almost like I have been having sex for a while, but nothing like the burning pain I feel when I am flaccid. Sometimes I have tingling at the tip when it is erect. Also, when I ejaculate it does not shoot out like it used to, its more of a dribble now, even though same volume. Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I live in the Boston area, and we have some of the best doctors in the country here, and I am not ready to just settle for this being my life day in day out, with nothing to control the pain.

Thanks,

Mike  

zariche

Mike some of your pain could be due to your pelvic floor muscle being in a constant contracted state due to either stress or some other reason . I have cronic pelvic pain that does indeed cause pain and irritation problems.  For ejaculation strength you can try doing kegels, although I am not sure what effect it has on men with Peyronies Disease so you may want to ask some of the vets.  The kegels can help with the pain possibly.  Also the loss of size could just be mental, I measured myself a while back before injuring myself and then at some times I would get paranoid and think I'm losing size due to the disease but measurements show that it's mostly mental for right now.  

LWillisjr

I recall one or two other members who posted once about symptoms. They stated that when flaccid that just the head (glans) of the penis just brushing in their underwear caused pain. I do not recall them posting what they did or if they were able to find a treatment.
Developed peyronies 2007 - 70 degree dorsal curve
Traction/MEDs/Injections/Surgery 2008 16 years Peyronies free now
My History

zariche

Heres a piece of what I was talking about.

Pelvic Floor - In every day life, your pelvic muscles contract and release with every thought.  These muscles are extremely connected with your brains thoughts and emotions.  As your brain processes thoughts, your pelvic muscles either relaxes or contracts.  Even in your sleep.

Tip Of The Penis Pain - When your Lavator Ani muscle    (a muscle that is in your pelvic floor next to the prostate)    is in a constant state of tension, it irritates your prostate.  Your prostate is close to a large bundle of nerves.  One of the nerves is called the Pudendal nerve.  This nerve runs from your anus to the tip of your penis.  When there is constant contraction and tension by your Pudendal nerve, it sends direct pain signals to your penis tip.  This is what causes Penile Pain at the tip of the penis.  It can also lead to you having pain around your rear end, making it very hard to sit.

Kegels - When I was doing the Kegel exercises, I over worked my Levator Ani muscle, thus  causing my pelvic floor to be in a constant state of contraction.  This tense and tender Lavator Ani muscle irritated my pudendal nerve and thus caused referred pain to the tip of my penis.


So apparently Kegels may not be the answer, but it may help.  You can try placing heat and massaging the muscle between the anus and testicles to see if that helps also.  

Farinthesouth

Well, I finally got a date and visited my uro. He said that pain that I feel at the tip of penis and upper glans, may be due to the plaque pressing (Up) the dorsal penis nerve. I´m doing now Laser and ultrasound, but no pain improvement so far. He told me that Laser is quite effective, but same was a very slow process and that it could take more than 20 sessions to achive any relieve. ( I´m on the 13 th now) My pain is similar to what was explained by Mike except I dont feel it when urinating or erect. Pain was present also for the last 7/8 months. It´s really frustrating
Regards

jackp

Nerve Pain

The usual treatment for nerve pain is Neurontin. My wife had some nerve ending pains and that is what her doctor prescribed. Worked like a charm.

Jackp

Brightdog

Quote from: bertie67 on April 09, 2010, 04:29:52 AM
Will this pain/discomfort ever go away? I have come, more or less, to accept that my penis will be "bent" for the rest of my life. However, the thought of erectile pain (something that would have been incomprehesible in my youth) really gets me down. Can anyone else "out there" give me some advice/thoughts on how long this "phase" might last? Is there any solution? Help please.

This differs from person to person. It did not go away for me, and the only solution (after trying the vitamins and the injections) was to finally have the surgery last month. I know lots of guys have concerns about loss of length or hardness, but my main concern has been and still is the question of pain. No point having lots of inches if it hurts to use it!

The pain was also a problem for my wife - who did not like the thought that our lovemaking was hurting me. Everything ground to a halt. Fortunately we have a very solid and communicative relationship, so we're still good.

Fred22

Quote from: MikeSmith on July 08, 2010, 12:10:07 AM
 I don't know if other posters have noticed the VED cuts down pain - or how that could even work... but it seems like it might be having a positive effect.  

I talked with Chris Spivey at Urology Centers of Alabama about VED use and pain reduction.  She said that VED therapy could be useful if you have plaque trapping a nerve....that over time the stretching could pull the plaque away from the nerve, resulting in a decrease of pain.  Take that for what it's worth. Fred

newguy

Quote from: Fred22 on August 24, 2010, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: MikeSmith on July 08, 2010, 12:10:07 AM
 I don't know if other posters have noticed the VED cuts down pain - or how that could even work... but it seems like it might be having a positive effect.  

I talked with Chris Spivey at Urology Centers of Alabama about VED use and pain reduction.  She said that VED therapy could be useful if you have plaque trapping a nerve....that over time the stretching could pull the plaque away from the nerve, resulting in a decrease of pain.  Take that for what it's worth. Fred

I was under the impression that Chris Spivey was quite elusive. I wonder if she can provide some kind of update or further insight into the VED protocol. It would be good to know if she has anything further to contribute that could be of value to us. As for VED cutting down pain, I do tend to agree that it's something I've noticed too.

Fred22

Quote from: newguy on August 24, 2010, 04:15:28 PM
Quote from: Fred22 on August 24, 2010, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: MikeSmith on July 08, 2010, 12:10:07 AM
 I don't know if other posters have noticed the VED cuts down pain - or how that could even work... but it seems like it might be having a positive effect.  

I talked with Chris Spivey at Urology Centers of Alabama about VED use and pain reduction.  She said that VED therapy could be useful if you have plaque trapping a nerve....that over time the stretching could pull the plaque away from the nerve, resulting in a decrease of pain.  Take that for what it's worth. Fred

I was under the impression that Chris Spivey was quite elusive. I wonder if she can provide some kind of update or further insight into the VED protocol. It would be good to know if she has anything further to contribute that could be of value to us. As for VED cutting down pain, I do tend to agree that it's something I've noticed too.


Here's how I happened to get in touch with Ms. Spivey.  I clicked on the UCA e-mail link somewhere on this forum, provided a very short description of my experience with Peyronie's, and the next day a very nice lady named Sherry from UCA called me and discussed my condition.  She then said she would see if Dr. Christine (the head surgeon) was still in the building (it was around 5:30 in the afternoon) and after a short wait she said that he had left the building, but she would check to see if Chris Spivey was still around.  Afew minutes later Ms. Spivey was on the phone and we had a good discussion of their treatment options, etc.  She said that the first thing they address at UCA is the pain issue and get that resolved before exploring other options.  Sherry also told me that she would have Dr. Christine call me and then called me back a couple of days later to ask if he had called.  She said he "promised her faithfully" that he would call me.  She even tried to locate him.  I still haven't heard from Dr. Christine, but I'm not that interested in talking with him as I don't think I'm a candidate for surgery since I've been in pain for over 4 years.  I was told by Dr. Milam's assistant at Vanderbilt that they might opt to perform surgery but we'd have to have a serious discussion regarding the fact that surgery could possibly make the pain even worse.  (Not what I wanted to hear).  If I do hear from Dr. Christine, I'll post any information I receive.

Fred  

Fred22

Dr. Brian Christine from UCA called me yesterday and we had a good discussion regarding pain, which is my major issue.  He told me the same thing that Dr. Milam's assistant had said; that surgery could actually end up making it worse.  In fact, he left me with the impression that if you go into surgery with pain, you'll likely come out of surgery still in pain.  He also said they had had some good results with Trental (pentox), which I tried and had to stop because it spiked my anxiety level.
Fred

Brightdog

Quote from: Fred22 on August 27, 2010, 10:44:39 AM
In fact, he left me with the impression that if you go into surgery with pain, you'll likely come out of surgery still in pain.  

This is the only positive change I have noticed since my surgery just over a month ago - less pain. I am thankful for this, because any stimulation at all caused pain before. Now I am not really getting much happening in terms of erections, but at least what I DO have is much less painful. So it seems this issue - like so many Peyronies Disease issues - may be widely variable and depend on the individual.

crashbandit

I've had penis pain for 1 month now, consistantly. It sucks. I'm hoping this goes away eventually. How long did or has your penis pain lasted for?
Cheers

BrooksBro

My most severe pain lasted a couple of months.  30-days of prescription ibuprofen reduced the pain to a tolerable level, but not completely.

Brightdog

Mine was only when I had arousal. A couple of years. Surgery seems to have fixed it for now.

crashbandit

Quote from: Brightdog on October 11, 2010, 12:27:56 PM
Mine was only when I had arousal. A couple of years. Surgery seems to have fixed it for now.

That's the exact opposite for me. Erections feel good with very little pain but after I ejaculate then my penis feels very achy and tired on the one side.

brooks, it was that painful eh? what kind of pain was it? You still have pain now?  
Cheers

BrooksBro

Early on, my erections were VERY painful.  After about 6-8 months, the discomfort became tolerable.  Since then, no "pain," just some discomfort when fully erect.

SSmithe

My erections have had pain for over 4 years now... after sex it is definitely ibuprofen for me.
32 years old.  Peyronies since 22. Stabilized peyronies plaque.  ED.  Trying to stay positive.

newguy

crashbandit - Just to point out, pain lasting mutliple years does not appear to be a common occurence. It certainly does happen, but I don't want you to assume it will happen to you by default.  

crashbandit

Quote from: newguy on October 12, 2010, 11:58:45 AM
crashbandit - Just to point out, pain lasting mutliple years does not appear to be a common occurence. It certainly does happen, but I don't want you to assume it will happen to you by default.

God I freakin hope nope not, and no offence to the guys that have experienced this. I should just get on pentox, it sounds really safe.  
Cheers

crashbandit

As soon as I get stressed out, my penis pain seems to intensify. My penis is weak or damaged along the left side and gets increasingly achy during stressful times.

Does anyone else notice this? What are some possible reasons for this aching reaction?  
Cheers

jackp

Bandit

Sounds like nerve pain. See your doctor and if it is nerve pain a prescription for neurontin could help.

Jackp

crashbandit

I was thinking about getting lyrica at one time for possible nerve issues with my Peyronies Disease but didn't.

How long for this nerve medicine to work? Is lyrica the same stuff, maybe better for Peyronies Disease?
Cheers

Fred22

Quote from: crashbandit on November 07, 2010, 01:33:34 AM
As soon as I get stressed out, my penis pain seems to intensify. My penis is weak or damaged along the left side and gets increasingly achy during stressful times.

Does anyone else notice this? What are some possible reasons for this aching reaction?

Yes...my pain often increases with stress.  My pain has been long term (4 1/2 years) so I suspect there is neurological involvement.

Fred22

Quote from: crashbandit on October 11, 2010, 03:38:32 AM
I've had penis pain for 1 month now, consistantly. It sucks. I'm hoping this goes away eventually. How long did or has your penis pain lasted for?

4 1/2 years and counting....but this is not typical.....Fred

jackp

Bandit

I do not know about lyrica. I know that neurontin will also help anxiety. It should help within about a week.

Jackp

crashbandit

Thanks jack,

Im going to talk to my doctor about trying this for abit. If it dosent work within a short period, like a month, I'll just stop taking it.

It's kindov scary when you read the information on Neurotin and it says, "Side effects can be mild or sever, temporary or permanent." I hate seeing that word permanent, although I'm sure the chances are very small.
Cheers

jackp

Bandit

My wife takes 100mg twice a day for vulva pains. It stopped the pains within a week. She is very sensitive to medicine but has had no problems with neurontin.

Jackp

crashbandit

I did a drug interaction between the trental, trazodone and the new comer, neurontin. It seems theses a moderate interaction between trazodone and neurontin. Something about CNS/respiratory depression but it says to monitor it. I don't really understand what this is saying, can I still take these drugs together but with caution and monitoring? I only take the trazodone at night and not always and just 25mg.

http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2228-0,1147-677,1826-1179
Cheers

newguy

Yes, there's no call for being alarmed, despite the more extreme examples of what can happen. Typically pain lasts months, but gradually improves over that time.  

Woodman

Mine will hurt more too when I am stressed, get upset over something, or being sleep deprived.

crashbandit

Quote from: Woodman on November 08, 2010, 09:43:54 PM
Mine will hurt more too when I am stressed, get upset over something, or being sleep deprived.

How long has this discomfort been going on for you woodman? And can you describe the pain you experience during these stressful periods? How is the pain when your relaxed and not high strung?
Cheers