Water fasting.

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melting

Quote from: Yungster on January 21, 2020, 04:41:42 PM
Any comments/ideas ?
Yeah, eat very healthy once you break the fast. Load up on vitamins, especially C all day everyday.  
Fasting besides intermediate shouldn't be done too often. I guess you get some bad stuff flushed out.(which shouldn't be put in again).
Great program otherwise with the stretching etc. keep improving.
Daily Transdermals and Traction/VED solved my Peyronies Disease https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,12587.0.html (DMSO+X)

Yungster

End of day 4 (out of 5)
-Water Fast
-Added some sea salt on day 2 because was getting arhythmia (irregular heartbeats, sign of lack of magnesium, has stopped since taking the salt)
-usual routine - most supplements (=hyperthermia, mild P stretching, light exercise, pelvic muscles streching)
-kept taking L-carnitine though
-no masturbation or sex

Peyronie's-wise
-Plaque: cannot really say if there is any difference
-Pain: I have had absolutely no pain apart from once in the 1st day, but absolutely nothing since then
-Penile function: NO spontaneous erections (same as before starting the fast), could achieve a voluntary one with a lot of effort (in order to examine the curvature)
-Curvature: did NOT get worse, I think it got better! flaccid looks the same as on 'healthy' days. erect looks slightly less curved.
-Bloodflow: it seems the bloodflow has improved, Mr P. hangs more fully than usual (even if skipping one or two hyperthermia sessions which happened today) even though it's really cold here. I think we can still attribute this to the hyperthermia (been doing it daily for 2 weeks)

Recap
Day 1 was fine just like any other day
Day 2 was hard, low energy, strained, went to a yoga class = loads of stretching
Day 3 was harder, but went for a light workout at the gym + sauna
Day 4 is better but still I'm not up to much, have been having deficient focus and memory since day 2
Day 5 SHOULD get better as I should be fully adapted into ketosis

Evaluation
Improvements made since beginning the fast (cannot for sure be attributed to the fast): Curvature has slightly improved to the eye (like it would look on a very good day), and I have had absolutely no pain (none at all since day 2) and barely any discomfort (could almost say NO discomfort, seeing how much it has decreased)


Update tomorrow or the day after.
Take care.
currently 20yo
curvature started after injury @16yo

hope794

Thank you for the updates, youngster!
26 yo from Italy.
Peyronie's since abt 2014
Abt 20-25° bend, w/ a moderate twist to the left
ED for 4 years and getting worse
From pornstar-like to moderately depressed - still fighting for a solution.

Yungster

Overall after 5 days, it seems there has been no improvement. I will give it another shot in a couple months, for a longer time (and start/end with a dry fast)
currently 20yo
curvature started after injury @16yo

JS1991

Just wanted to say I'm back to water fasting. The goal is to fully abstain from ALL sexual activity for the duration of the fast and a day or two afterwards, in order to loosen tight muscles in my pelvic floor that give me hard flaccid. I plan on "freestyle" fasting for the next few months, and will likely be completing water fasts ranging from 2-20 days in this duration. I always refeed half as many days as I water fast. I will update on the state of my hard flaccid as time goes by. I believe if I can stack the minor gains I've gotten from fasting in the past regarding my hard flaccid, while living a STRICT lifestyle conducive to not making it worse, I should be able to slowly cure myself. We'll see! Abstinence from edging and orgasm will be key.
Do your homework before attempting a prolonged fast. JS1991 Timeline - Peyronies Society Forums (updated)

JS1991

I thought I'd add that this was where I originally got the inspiration to water fast my hard flaccid away, over a year ago: https://www.pegym.com/forums/penile-anomalies-injuries-pelvic-floor-issues/54162-hard-flaccid-recovery.html

To be honest, my biggest downfall when it comes to hard flaccid is abstaining. I find it extremely, extremely hard to do. Not even porn or masturbation, but not having sex with the many women available to me, and not touching myself when they message me or send me pictures. It is F^@$!ng excruciating to abstain from sex at my age and purposely cancel out my sex drive. Fasting does help because it lowers the sex drive greatly, but mine is so naturally high that I still have trouble. That being said, the only serious improvements I've had (that weren't long and drawn out over time) came upon completion of long fasts while FULLY abstaining and allowing the muscles to relax.

I'll update on my situation as I go.
Do your homework before attempting a prolonged fast. JS1991 Timeline - Peyronies Society Forums (updated)

NeoV

JS, add traction to abstinence plus fasting and you will see massive improvements. Remember that 25% of men using traction experience pain or discomfort afterward. For me, sex does not bother my penis anymore at all compared to masturbation. I say sex is fine as long as your diet is good (low carb high fat). Fasting alone is NOT good enough. Breaking your fast with carbs causes devastating effects on your blood vessels and research supports this. Eat low carb for life and fast.

JS1991

Neo, Concerning traction, well, I began traction when I first got Peyronies, which was the month  you started your YouTube channel. I did not have hard flaccid at the time, but I ended up getting it about a month later. After getting hard flaccid it became difficult to apply traction, and it would even make my hard flaccid worse. I did manual traction for months afterwards but decided to stop and wait until my hard flaccid went away. Part of me thinks traction might have caused it, since it seems to be one of the leading causes along with excessive masturbation. Plus, I was perfectly fine when going into a heat/traction session, and literally mid-session developed the condition; I may have been pulling too hard.

That being said, I was under the impression that traction is mainly for Peyronies and not so much to help hard flaccid. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this! Thanks for all the advice over the past two years, you're a great guy.

On the topic of carbs and sugar spikes on refeeds, I just read the research, thanks for pointing that out. I literally just refed last night from a 72 hour water fast with a sandwich and French fries lol, so will be more careful in the future! For those interested, you can read it here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.medicalnewstoday.com/amp/articles/324894.php
Do your homework before attempting a prolonged fast. JS1991 Timeline - Peyronies Society Forums (updated)

JS1991

A small anecdote that explains why I fast for hard flaccid: after completing my longest dry fast (9 days) I refed on,  I believe, a Thursday. That next morning (Friday) I awoke in the middle of the night with a huge nighttime erection, on the verge of ejaculating because the head of my penis was extremely sensitive to touch (in a good way) and as my erection rubbed up against my sheets it felt so good I almost came. This hadn't happened in so long I forgot what it felt like to have sensitivity and bloodflow in the head of my penis. I've also experienced this to a lesser degree with water fasting. That is why I'm attempting to tap into this vein of healing called fasting, and experimenting as much as I can; there is definitely something to it, for it to have given me those results.

Another thing I've figured out regarding hard flaccid, and this is potentially a huge breakthrough. Usually when I ejaculate it tightens my muscles up and makes it worse, but occasionally it will actually make me feel good and loosen me up. I've been trying to identify markers in my body that help guide my decision on when it is good to ejaculate and when it is not. I've discovered that when my balls hang low and loose I get relieving orgasms. When they don't hang low, tingle, or feel tight, it is a bad time to ejaculate. I've only just discovered this, so next time my balls hang low (lol) I'm going to test it by ejaculating and return with my results. Hopefully I'm onto something here. If I can have consecutive positive ejaculations, I feel I'll be quickly on my way to healing this condition. Especially when combined with fasting, therawand, reverse kegels, stretches, abstinence, all that good stuff.
Do your homework before attempting a prolonged fast. JS1991 Timeline - Peyronies Society Forums (updated)

samsung

My apologies if you've answered this somewhere else but did you have any curvature that the fasting corrected?
45 y.o. Single. Onset of symptoms (pain-stinging like a wasp) @ 6/2018. No sudden injury. Curve developed slowly. 40 deg. dorsal. Hourglassing. Torsion to left flaccid. 4 rounds xiaflex. Restorex, DMSO+, heat, arginine, cialis, lipoic acid, vit. K2

Whyisthishappening

or any pain related gains ?
alc ,vitamin e, propolis,pde5,NAC,nsaids,olive oil massage,nsaids,aspirin,essential oils cockteils,keto,IF,green tea,coffee

TonySa

One individual reported indentation decreased w fasting, but no reports of improvement in the curvature.  As all anti-inflammatory treatments it's crucial they are in addition to manual therapy, oral meds and or Xiaflex.
PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

JS1991

Several individuals including myself and skunkworks have had major improvements in indentations (mine are filled in). I don't have much curvature (maybe 10 degrees) but it hasn't changed at all since fasting. PAIN, however, has been my biggest gain. My pain decreased by about 90% since I began fasting. In my opinion, that is what fasting is best for:dcreasing pain/inflammation. Each time I completed an extended fast there was a noticeable difference.

In other news (and I know this has nothing to do with peyronies or fasting but figured I'd post it anyway), I just tested my theory on ejaculation and hard flaccid. I waited until I felt relatively loose, my balls were hanging low, no numbness or tingling, no muscle spasm, and I purposely masturbated to completion. Once again, the orgasm successfully loosened my muscles a bit as opposed to tightening them. I'm going to start another water fast Sunday night, hopefully go until Friday morning while abstaining, then next Saturday I'll test another orgasm, this time with a woman, to further confirm my theory of ejaculation and hard flaccid. I've been abstaining for weeks and months at a time since around this time last year, so if I can freely ejaculate as I please with this method it will be an amazing improvement for me in quality of life; I HATE abstaining.

I have unlimited fight in me, so I will literally be battling hard flaccid for as long as it takes (years if necessary) until I defeat it, while updating you guys along the way. Once my hard flaccid is resolved I'll be able to incorporate VED and stretching comfortable into my routine, to finish treating my peyronies. The hard flaccid exaggerates penile deformities, so I'm looking forward to getting a better, more accurate assessment of my peyronies scarring once I'm healed from it.
Do your homework before attempting a prolonged fast. JS1991 Timeline - Peyronies Society Forums (updated)

samsung

I'm not knocking here, if things work for you, more power to you.

But for me, not eating for 9 days seems like an extreme length to go to to resolve a minor dent or a little pain. If it resolved curvature or shrunk plaque or something, o.k. Otherwise why make yourself extremely uncomfortable?
45 y.o. Single. Onset of symptoms (pain-stinging like a wasp) @ 6/2018. No sudden injury. Curve developed slowly. 40 deg. dorsal. Hourglassing. Torsion to left flaccid. 4 rounds xiaflex. Restorex, DMSO+, heat, arginine, cialis, lipoic acid, vit. K2

JS1991

Samsung, It was mainly for the hard flaccid which was driving me nuts. I'm a bit extreme in everything I do; I was experimenting. I got the result I was looking for and I haven't gone that long since. On top of that, I will say that, although dry fasting can be difficult, water fasting for 9 days is actually extremely easy.

Also happy to report (and I'm probably just going to make a separate thread for this specific topic) but I've managed to orgasm for the third day in a row with zero I'll effect. My technique of waiting for my balls to hang low and loose before ejaculation has worked perfectly. This is the first time in two years (since I developed hard flaccid syndrome) that I've came three days in a row. I am absolutely thrilled about this breakthrough in understanding the condition. Hopefully someone can benefit from this info as well. That's why I share my experiments.
Do your homework before attempting a prolonged fast. JS1991 Timeline - Peyronies Society Forums (updated)

Whyisthishappening

 i remember when i fasted hard flaccid was gone
alc ,vitamin e, propolis,pde5,NAC,nsaids,olive oil massage,nsaids,aspirin,essential oils cockteils,keto,IF,green tea,coffee

skunkworks

For me too, but I had this weird occurence where it would come back with a vengeance on the third day then be better than ever on the fourth and further.

No idea why, but if it gets worse for some on the third day, keep going.
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

JS1991

For those exact reasons I feel like a super long water fast of 14 days or more may just fully release it. I don't know but I have nothing to lose and it's worth trying. At the least, it should provide some permanent relief as long as one doesn't retard the healing process by edging or otherwise ejaculating mid-fast and for a day or two afterwards.


I also just came, symptom/setback-free, for the 4th day in a row using my "low hanging balls" method lol. I don't know how I should proceed from here; do I just keep jerking off all week and see how loose I can get? Do I abstain and fast for a few days then cum on Saturday when I meet with a girl I know? Not sure but I'll keep everyone updated lol. I am definitely hanging looser than I was 4 days ago so this is a pretty big breakthrough for me. Very happy.

Edit: I just ejaculated for the second time today with no bad side effects. I'm going to jump into a water fast (starting now) and end it Friday while fully abstaining. The bad effects of edging seem to be reset by a "positive" orgasm, in that muscles are no longer as sore. Saturday I see a girl I know, so hopefully my currently loosened state plus a 4 day water fast while fully abstaining will give me a very loose pelvic floor. For anyone reading this, remember the trick: make sure your muscles aren't spasming, your balls are hanging low and loose, your penis is as loose as it's going to get, no tingling in your balls, nothing like that. Feel your balls as you masturbate and make sure they don't tighten up; it might fluctuate. If my balls tightened up I would just assume "happy baby" pose and do some deep belly breathing with reverse kegels and it they would loosen back up again. Lying down in a comfortable position, possible with your feet propped up and resting on something helps as well. Right before you cum, check your balls. If they feel super loose, orgasm quickly. As you cum, let the natural contractions and kegels come and pass. Don't force anything, be gentle. Relax for a few seconds and keep your mental state positive; panicking for any reason at this moment (like thinking you did it wrong) will tighten you up. After the involuntary kegels subside and you've rested for a good 30 seconds, go back into happy baby pose, let your pelvic floor loosen up, and do some reverse kegels with belly breathing. This just helps keep things loose. From here you should be good. There seems to be a short refractory period after orgasm where your penis will be slightly tight. This is fine, your muscles are just tender. Overall, your pelvic floor should feel pretty loose and your balls should still hang. Your balls are the key: check them for looseness throughout if you want to assure yourself you've done it correctly. And that's it, enjoy the ability to ejaculate again, care-free!

Hopefully mixing this with other treatments will give total release over time. I'm going to go in internally and release any trigger points I have tomorrow morning with my therawand (I'm almost about as skilled as one can get at using it), for example. I'd love to have one of you with hard flaccid try this and tell me how it goes. Regardless, I really hope this helps someone.
Do your homework before attempting a prolonged fast. JS1991 Timeline - Peyronies Society Forums (updated)

ConcernedandWorried

Has anyone had results in terms of indents filling in with scars older than brand new? I got my Peyronies about 2 years ago now, coming up. I have many scars, unfortunately, about 5 shallow dents. Luckily, none of them are huge per se, they're just "big" to me, because I also have hard flaccid, which increases their visibility when flaccid. I'm worried that it's too late to fast. I waited a while because I was hoping that Peyronies would blow over/stop, and that perhaps I had a little bit of late growth to go (I had read that some guys keep growing up until 30). I know that fasting can stunt growth, so I wanted to avoid doing any regular or extreme fasting until I was closer to 30.

For the last five months I'd been symptom free, so I figured maybe I was out of the woods. Then I went through a terrible breakup and miserably masturbated one too many times in a row. Got stinging pain, just like every other Peyronies scar. Immediately fasted for three days, and then I've been keeping it low on carbs for the past two weeks. I've also stopped masturbating. All the same, it looks like one of my existing dents underneath the head deepened.

I'm freaking out, because I don't have much to show off to begin with. My penis looks so ravaged and dented. I'm starting to worry I've gotten to the point where I've lost enough girth across all the dents that my penis is, for practical purposes, significantly smaller than before. Is there any hope with my original scars, assuming I start fasting now? Can I see results? I know that JS1991 had big results, but he also started fasting within the first year IIRC.  

TonySa

If you're worried your condition is worsening, I'd start multiple treatment strategies: anti-inflammatory such as low carb w intermittent fasting, low dose nightly PDE5i, and manual therapy such as VED or traction.  One modality on its own is rarely successful.
PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

JS1991

Concernedandworried, a few things. First of all, if you have hard flaccid you need to realize that it is GREATLY exaggerating your penile deformities, especially in the girth department, and once released will be much closer to what you used to be than you would believe. It is the main cause of your penis looking "ravaged and dented". Just remember that although peyronies scarring is the root of the issue, it is being greatly exaggerated by the hard flaccid.

Next, I know guys can get insecure about their penis size. How old are you? I personally think not fasting until 30 because you think it's going to grow more and are afraid of "stunting growth" is retarded (no offense) but do what you think is right for you. I'm 28 by the way.

I started fasting in December 2018; I developed peyronies January 2018. So 11 months in. And continued fasting on and off ever since. I don't think it's too late, no. And freaking out about it is only going to give you worse hard flaccid so relax your mind. Step 1 for you should be ridding yourself of hard flaccid. Step 2, other treatments. At least, that's my two cents.

Also wanted to mention that smoking weed tightens the crap out of my pelvic floor and I don't think it's conducive to loosening the muscles.

I believe I've identified a case of a man being relieved of his hard flaccid, and only being left with the remaining, underlying Peyronie's disease. It is this post here: https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,7281.0.html if you scroll down to "what happened" (ignore the rest) and read it, I honestly believe that (whether he realizes it or not) the man recorded his account of a spontaneous resolution of his hard flaccid syndrome. I've read similar stories on other forums. Let me know what you guys think. Personally, this is what I expect to experience once my stubborn hard flaccid is gone. And then afterwards with physical therapies I expect a full recovery from peyronies. I'm extremely optimistic, to be honest; I feel like I have it all figured out it is just extremely stubborn and hard work to do.
Do your homework before attempting a prolonged fast. JS1991 Timeline - Peyronies Society Forums (updated)

Godisreal

I had constant hard flaccid for 1,5-2 months straight after on set, one day it was gone; so yeah, in my case it was definitely spontaneous improvement.
Personally, I'm stuck with a curve and some narrowing. Feels like it's fixable tho.
Could anyone explain what a dent is? I've never understood that word...
Lastly, I can't say I share your opinion on weed, JS1991; but however, the thing about the balls hanging low is definitely accurate, because I feel that too.
Nowadays, sometimes my balls feels like they're gonna go back in my body lol, not sure why tho; could it be because of tight pelvic floor, perhaps? Hmmm, really unclear this sh*t.
30 degree dorsal curve, immobility and heavy loss of girth.
My body seems to get very inflamed when I masturbate too often or eat unhealthy.
Using antioxidants, Pentox and hirudoid cream, as well as manual traction, heat and Cialis.

NeoV

Quote from: JS1991 on February 15, 2020, 03:31:04 PM
This hadn't happened in so long I forgot what it felt like to have sensitivity and bloodflow in the head of my penis.

This is exactly how I feel after several days of fasting or simply ultra therapeutic keto or OMAD. I could not believe how my sensitivity, erections, and ejaculation were. Blood sugar and metabolic issues are so critical to penile health it's shocking, and quite saddening.  

melting

Is it the fasting which does the good or is the avoidance of foods? Get what I mean by that?
 

What happens if you only eat apples instead of fasting or vegan or a carnivore diet? (depending on what works for you)
It's known that certain foods/diets can increase inflammatory responses that are surely not good for Peyronies Disease.
Daily Transdermals and Traction/VED solved my Peyronies Disease https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,12587.0.html (DMSO+X)

TonySa

Restricted calories. Low carb, intermittent fasting, low protein can all be anti inflammatory.
PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

NeoV

Melting, it's glucose by FAR. Yes, fasting is a level up from therapeutic keto, but fruit is not a good idea.

Also as TonySa said, even protein can spike blood sugar and insulin to a degree, however, the insulin LOWERS and so does your blood sugar much faster than if you ate bread due to how glucagon works. I say fast with therapeutic keto carnivore or plant based is fine. In the case of plant based, supplement properly since a vegan diet can be quite dangerous.

TonySa

Neo, do you have any evidence that vegan can be "dangerous"?
PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

popopo

Try getting all your nutrients in while eating vegan. It's nearly impossible to do unless you take a lot of supplements.
Age: 25
Date of onset: 17
Symptoms: sharp pains, numbness, change in shape/size, hourglassing and discolaration from jelqing/VED usage as a teen. Diagnosed with a venous leak and possible scarring.
Treatments tried: cialis, pentox and VED didnt help

TonySa

I know you believe that, but where's the evidence?  

Medical support that it's healthy and can even treat diseases and lower need for medications:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/
PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

skunkworks

Quote from: TonySa on March 25, 2020, 11:28:06 PM
I know you believe that, but where's the evidence?  

Medical support that it's healthy and can even treat diseases and lower need for medications:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/

Quote from: TonySa on March 25, 2020, 07:48:02 PM
Neo, do you have any evidence that vegan can be "dangerous"?

At the most basic level, veganism is unsustainable without supplementation.

Supplements themselves are rarely independantly verified chemically to actually contain what they claim to contain.

But beyond that, supplements are created based on epidemiological studies and they are inherently flawed. Beta carotene is a good example, diets high in beta carotene from food reduced cancer risk in smokers. But supplemented beta carotene increased cancer risk in smokers...

Something similar happened with lycopene. It was theorised that because increased tomato consumption correlated with a decrease in the incidence and severity of prostate cancer, that lycopene would be good for prostate cancer. Studies with supplementation did not support this conclusion.

Then there is the fact that no native human population has ever been vegan.

And the fact that a vegan diet is devoid in EPA and DHA, and having low levels of those increases depression, IQ and visual acuity in adults, and actually causes irreversible damage to brain and eye function in infants. Conversion from ALA is both miniscule and hugely variable between individuals, relying on conversion is inherently idiotic.

Then the study which showed that creatine increased IQ in vegans but not in omnivores. Creatine, a chemical which we know is important for brain function. Pretty easy to see that it was bringing them back to baseline rather than actually improving.  
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

melting

I think what many miss is that it differs between people.  
If you put an eskimo that eats a meat based diet since 20+ generations on vegan it might not work.  

I find there's a logic in that if you use a diet that isn't fitting to your dna/body it will react badly to it which then leads to inflammation.  

Many people can't consume dairy cause it was never part of their ancestors diet. If they do consume dairy it will result in inflammatory responses.
Daily Transdermals and Traction/VED solved my Peyronies Disease https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,12587.0.html (DMSO+X)

François Gigot

Quote from: skunkworks on March 26, 2020, 09:40:50 AM
At the most basic level, veganism is unsustainable without supplementation.
I think it's dangerous to promote this kind of idea !
You can have all the nutriments you need with a vegan diet.
To be clear, just some salad is not a vegan diet.

A lot of athletes have improved their performances with this diet: Venus Williams, Carl Lewis, Kendrick Farris, Patrick Baboumian ...
Even Schwarzenegger don't eat meat anymore ! Like he says, we want you to eat meat because it's a big business !

The WHO (World Health Organization) encourage people to don't eat red meat, which is highly inflammatory and a cause of cancer.
Milk is highly inflammatory too.


Quote from: skunkworks on March 26, 2020, 09:40:50 AM
Then there is the fact that no native human population has ever been vegan.
Hummm, have you ever been in India ?
The followers of Jain culture and philosophy existe since the 6th century BC, and don't eat meat or milk.
Vegans + Vegetarians (vegans who drink inflammatory milk) are 500 millions in India.


Quote from: skunkworks on March 26, 2020, 09:40:50 AM
Supplements themselves are rarely independantly verified chemically to actually contain what they claim to contain.

But beyond that, supplements are created based on epidemiological studies and they are inherently flawed. Beta carotene is a good example, diets high in beta carotene from food reduced cancer risk in smokers. But supplemented beta carotene increased cancer risk in smokers...
Vegan people don't need Beta Carotene supplement, they eat carrot !
Concerning Supplements, you can not sell what you want ! In Europe it's higly controlled & chemically verified !

And your approch is flawed too because you associate "supplements" with "veganism" but a lot of eat meaters take supplements too.


Quote from: skunkworks on March 26, 2020, 09:40:50 AM
And the fact that a vegan diet is devoid in EPA and DHA, and having low levels of those increases depression, IQ and visual acuity in adults, and actually causes irreversible damage to brain and eye function in infants. Conversion from ALA is both miniscule and hugely variable between individuals, relying on conversion is inherently idiotic.

Then the study which showed that creatine increased IQ in vegans but not in omnivores. Creatine, a chemical which we know is important for brain function. Pretty easy to see that it was bringing them back to baseline rather than actually improving.
A lot of studies against veganism have been debunked, because they were financed by meat/milk lobbys.
Plus, creatine is naturally produced in the human body from the amino acids glycine and arginine.

Remember: Pythagore was vegan.

skunkworks

Vegatarianism is not veganism. Do not conflate the two, they are not the same. There are no native vegan populations. It is an invention of the modern world.

The mandatory Jain diet is Lacto vegetarianism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacto_vegetarianism

The funding source of a study does not debunk a study, but it does warrant one taking a closer look at the methodology and raw data. That same argument (that funding source debunks a study) can be used against pretty much every study which is used to promote the purported health benefits of the vegan diet.  

The Pythagorean diet includes eggs and milk. Pythagore was a vegetarian, not a vegan.

Veganism is unsustainable without supplemention, every reputable vegan information source will confirm this, so if you think this factually correct idea is dangerous to promote, then maybe the issue there is with you.

"Vegan people don't need Beta Carotene supplement, they eat carrot !"

You have completely misunderstood that whole point. Plus meat eaters may take supplements, but vegans require them, especially during pregnancy.  
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

François Gigot

The only supplement you need in a vegan diet is B12.

anchorout

FWIW, I've been vegan 26 years, no supplements. Peyronies Disease began in the last 2.  
Age 60, first erectile pain mid-2018. Noticed hourglass deformity late 2019 (hadn't actually been looking prior). Now moderate bend, hourglass turned into overall reduction of about 40% in girth and length, cannot have intercourse.

skunkworks

You will be eating or drinking something fortified with b12, which is essentially supplementation.
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

defo28

Hello,

Since some time ago I've had a curve upwards and pain with it. I searched after ways to improve the situation, but then recently I got injured and the symtoms increased. So after that I found out about this and tried a 48 hour water fast and got great results. The curvature got better (almost as before the injury) and the pain is nearly totally gone. More flexability too. Don't know if it has the same effect for older plaque, but considering the amount of people who have mentioned water fasting it could possibly help with that too. Important to do reaserch before doing a fast.  
Got Peyronies Disease around 2014
Currently 19 years old

TonySa

Is it the pain that improved?  I wouldn't think there'd be a change in the curve so quickly?
PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

Holistic

Quote from: NeoV on July 04, 2019, 05:21:11 AM
From my experience, the more spasms and struggles you have with fasting or keto, the more you NEED to do it. That just shows how dependent your body was on glucose.

So how does one go about monitoring or investigating glucose? I mean I eat fairly healthy. My breakfast just about every day is a smoothie with: 1/2 oats, 1 cup organic blueberries, 1 organic banana, some organic green (spin or kale), about a teaspoon each of chia and flax seeds, sometimes an apple or pineapple, then i fill it up with water and blend. Usually have it in the AM but might save it for lunch to do morning fasts. Lunches are usually brown rice bowls with a veggie and protein and dinner is about the same due to bulk cooking. sometimes ill order sushi or a quinua salad. Weekends i usually go out one night for dinner. No desserts really.

Now I have counted 2 certain fibroid balls that are new and in my signature description, I do feel as of recently my penis has other little fibroid balls and the dorsal tendon of my penis does feel tighter than usual. Not sure if this is Peyronies or some fibrotic autoimmune thing.
32 yo. Unknown cause. 1st plaque proximal left base near pelvis 9/19. Expanded and shrunk after 8 mo by 50% (still working on it). Minor bend but malleable. 2nd small plaque 5/20 superficial distal right just under tip. Currently growing. No bend.

Holistic

Quote from: JohnnyDoe on July 04, 2019, 06:53:59 AM
Probably true, have been eating more rice lately.

Any update on the cutting of rice? I eat a good about of brown rice
32 yo. Unknown cause. 1st plaque proximal left base near pelvis 9/19. Expanded and shrunk after 8 mo by 50% (still working on it). Minor bend but malleable. 2nd small plaque 5/20 superficial distal right just under tip. Currently growing. No bend.

Holistic

Quote from: NeoV on August 01, 2019, 08:00:31 AM
For the record, my symptoms are less and curvature reduced after over two weeks OMAD (one meal a day meaning a daily 23 hour fast every day). This is coming off two years straight of regular keto, which DID help massively. But I am getting more results with daily fasting.

I think fasting with keto plus the physical therapies is truly miraculous when used together.

Are you still doing one meal a day? And has your curve completely disappeared?

Im thinking of adjusting my diet to veggies and lean meats. Use my crock pot to make veggie and meat stews/soups and use less rice and other sugar
32 yo. Unknown cause. 1st plaque proximal left base near pelvis 9/19. Expanded and shrunk after 8 mo by 50% (still working on it). Minor bend but malleable. 2nd small plaque 5/20 superficial distal right just under tip. Currently growing. No bend.

Holistic

Quote from: JS1991 on September 23, 2019, 02:06:10 AM
I regained sensitivity in the head of my penis which was a symptom from hard flaccid as well. Speaking of hard flaccid, that is my #1 struggle at this point.

What is "hard flaccid?"
32 yo. Unknown cause. 1st plaque proximal left base near pelvis 9/19. Expanded and shrunk after 8 mo by 50% (still working on it). Minor bend but malleable. 2nd small plaque 5/20 superficial distal right just under tip. Currently growing. No bend.

NeoV

Holistic, that diet is a diabetic's nightmare. The old idea of healthy is ass backwards sadly (like many things in our world). Bananas and smoothies and protein spikes insulin and damages the body. The low fat paradigm has failed us, I highly recommend going keto or doing true 24 hour fasts. Even then, sushi etc is just too damaging and if you have fibrosis, a definite no-no.  

peyroniesurprise

I would say that water fasting the way OP suggests is not a healthy approach.

Fasting is something you get to do your whole life, not a pill you pop once and be done with. It's like hoping that going to the gym for one month every day would get you muscle for your whole life and you'd not go to the gym again.

Take it slow, again, it's a way of life. Start easy with not eating anything from 6 pm to the next day's morning and slowly fast more in the mornings too. I'd say ideally you get an 6-8 hour feeding period and 16-18h fast, out of each 8 is sleep. You don't need to do this daily, you can have off days if you feel like eating more. It's not like if you ate more 3 days a week you lose the progress you made in the other 4.

I personally now just feel the need to fast sometimes, i don't even think about it, it's natural for me not to eat for at least 12 hours. Sometimes if i gorge for a few days i feel the need to fast more and i go for one or two days of 16 hr fasting, then back to my regular 10-12 hours.

However i would say that fasting intentionally for 1-2 days does have it's merits, but it should be done scarcely and only once your body got accustomed to fasting.

I am sure fasting is the natural way to live and we're not supposed to stuff ourselves with food 24/24. The digestive system is resource heavy and it takes away from your body's other functions. If you give it a break, the other functions can start. I'm pretty sure fasting helped with my peyronies too.
31 yo, Hourglass Peyronies likely because of masturbation

Treatment: Vit E and fish oil (vitD+E), no more masturbation; good improvement so far, less hourglass both in flaccid and erect state, little to no pain during erection now

Godisreal

Even tho there's a clear connection with diet and Peyronie's (shouldn't be difficult to understand), NeoV has inherited autoimmune disorders, if I'm not mistaking.
At some point you're gonna have to ask yourself, is the juice worth the squeeze?
Cutting out all of your favorite meals because it helps a specific diabetic guy who has major blood-sugar issues, is something I would never advise to.
Just because there's a connection between metabolism and Peyronie's, does not mean all Peyronie's patients have issues with blood sugar levels.
That's just idiotic.
Also, to address NeoV's shots on smoothies... lol, smoothies can be super-healthy and a great way to get nutrients in an easier way.
It's not difficult to look up what ingredients cause insulin spikes and what ingredients doesn't.
It's not that black & white.  

30 degree dorsal curve, immobility and heavy loss of girth.
My body seems to get very inflamed when I masturbate too often or eat unhealthy.
Using antioxidants, Pentox and hirudoid cream, as well as manual traction, heat and Cialis.

Holistic

We as a collective should understand that we are all looking to fight and understand the same pathology. We will each have our own successes and losses. It should be important that we do not talk down to our discoveries. Using words like "idiotic" may be clear to the speaker but not as clear to new members or those who aren't as knowledgeable.

We can all disagree and scholastically provide arguments against each others discoveries. Healthy debate should be encouraged for the intention to understand treatment better and challenge each other to go back to the books and learn more. but not to disprove or make someones approach less than.

clearly Neo has had success that can prove beneficial. Because of him I have taken more investment in my diet while maintaining my likes. ill have sweets here and there. But Ive researched a lot of veggies and fruits to help me. Couldnt have done it without that boost. He hasnt advised anyone to do anything.

Lets try to be more conscious, kind and supportive when we speak to each other. May sound sappy to some. But this forum should be nothing but kind to any and all.
32 yo. Unknown cause. 1st plaque proximal left base near pelvis 9/19. Expanded and shrunk after 8 mo by 50% (still working on it). Minor bend but malleable. 2nd small plaque 5/20 superficial distal right just under tip. Currently growing. No bend.

Godisreal

I'm gonna fast for 3 days. Will I see any positives? Or is that too little time? Let me know please!  
30 degree dorsal curve, immobility and heavy loss of girth.
My body seems to get very inflamed when I masturbate too often or eat unhealthy.
Using antioxidants, Pentox and hirudoid cream, as well as manual traction, heat and Cialis.

Gabriel

Hey buddies,

Just passing by quickly again in this thread to give my 2 cents about 3 things:

1) JS, I'm pleased to read you again bro; it's always smart, always fun, always fascinating, and always a pleasure. Keep going man!!


2) As I stated in my recent big post (what has helped and what has not on nearly 4 years on constant experimentations), I positively think that diet changes, and especially keto, can help or even cure a number of syndromes (see for instance all enlightening Neo's stories about his journey). However, in my case, and I think it could be the same for many other folks here, going very strict keto for 1+ year, in a very controlled manner (keto mojo testing almost every day, very consistent bloodwork including insulin, blood glucose, CRP, etc. etc.), did not help at all with any Peyronies Disease paremeter (hard flaccid, pain, curvature, dents, EQ). I surely obtained many other benefits from it (see my long post on this subject), but after being out of it for 1 year now, I deem that the cost outweighed the benefits. Now that I'm back on a more "whole-food, plant-centered, moderate-carb-protein-fat diet", I still never catch disease just like when I started keto (2,5 years without a single illness and still counting :D), but moreover I have more energy, lost more fat and gained more muscle in 4 months of this lifestyle than in 1+ years of keto. I still regularily assess my blood sugar, insulin and CRP, while eating lots of fruits and clean carbs (legumes, whole grains, etc., which I demonized for so much time), and all my blood markers are all as fine and dandy as when I was on keto. Peyronies Disease hasen't moved, in any department, even when I tried a very high carb session for 1 month at some point (eating lots of bananas a day).

--> SO, just to say: yes, do try LCHF, and in particular do try keto. But if you're not seeing improvements in Peyronies Disease after 6 months, and if after an honest and sound discussion with yourself you find you are starting to decline (lower energy, libido, slower metabolism, dietary or social frustrations, etc.), please don't be dogmatic, and go back to a non-keto whole-food based diet. BTW, same thing applies for fasting: as narrated here in many posts, I did a whole bunch of fasts ranging to 3 to 15 days, while doing OMAD the rest of the time.... Well, for me at least, definitely not worth it; I'm back on a 14/7ish IF routine with same positive results and way more advantages (more energy, muscle gain, fast loss, libido, etc.).


3) About hard flaccid: after nearly 4 years now trying everything, I tend to think that a) The only stuffs I found to relieve it were each time just temporary (at least 5 days water fast; cialis; topical essential oils; inner pelvic floor massage by therapist); b) It does seem like traction and VED worsen it, but also in a very temporary fashion (ie after 2-3 days of rest, penis has always gone back to a "regular" hard flaccid status); c) It may not deserve as much worrying as we give it (I mean, I came to a point where I tell myself "ok, it looks bad from an esthetic standpoint, but 4 years after it still does not seem to change crap neither about erect diformity, nor about pain, EQ or anything... so, F~@< it!).


Anyway, this is just my experience guys. Surely Peyronies Disease is not to be tackled the same way bye everyone, especially in terms of diet, and I certainly do not intend to start a stupid 239328844th diet war here. We're worth way much as a community than Instagram or any trash social network on this regard. Just trying to encourage folks who may be losing time here to be smarter than me, and quicker in adjusting things for their benefit.

Take care,

G
- 35 yo, Peyronies Disease with chronic pain, general hourglassing with girth and length loss since 09/01/17.
- Pain almost cured with Hirudoid cream and diet/lifestyle changes (see my topics on this); deformity still here, but partly reduced with traction + VED.

Asphyxia

i have had a similar experience as gabriel, i transitioned from a keto diet to a fruitarian diet and there was no change with peyronies, started getting very frequent erections to a point where it was too much in terms of impulse control and libido

but it seems like it might be something individual, i cant seem to have the right mineral balance on keto and my muscles twitch and cramp all the time
even when supplementing with minerals.

same thing happens on a prolonged fast, i have done many of those, longest one being 24 days, it doesnt seem to be worth it, my blood circulation slowed down and erections stopped at a certain point.

1-5 days fast is the range i would stick with henceforth if i decide to do it again, with adequate mineral supplementation

but nowdays i much rather eat and keep the energy up while taking some nsaids and viagra.
by the way, i find fasting to be much better if im empty when starting it, which i do by juicing and/or by using magnesium/senna(which might deplete minerals i think) but i dont bother on short fasts.
its also a good idea to break the fast with liquid, vegetable juice or maybe a bone broth or meat broth for those on the carnivore diet
i tried to add to my diet juices from turmeric, black pepper and ginger and take shots of it during the day to lower the inflammation but i have issues with digestion and it didnt seem to work for me, but it might be worth getting my gut microbiome used to it by introducing it slowly.

im also not trying to start a diet war here, just sharing my experience
Age:23. Onset of symptoms: september 2020.
Curve mostly semi erect about 60 degrees, slight pain
Tried short & prolonged fasts, keto,carnivore, traction and most of the supplements.
Severe digestive issues, probably an autoimmune disorder

Godisreal

Guys, can I stay on Pentox (perhaps lower dose than right now) and Cialis when I'm water fasting?
Or will this result in a nasty stomach ulcer?
And will it "knock me off" my fast?
What's your experience?
30 degree dorsal curve, immobility and heavy loss of girth.
My body seems to get very inflamed when I masturbate too often or eat unhealthy.
Using antioxidants, Pentox and hirudoid cream, as well as manual traction, heat and Cialis.