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Welcome to Dr. Landon Trost - Directly answering member questions in the "Medical Professionals" section below the Treatment boards. https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,16512.0.html

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Author Topic: MAGNESIUM related topics  (Read 38382 times)

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George999

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2010, 11:33:03 AM »

Guys, there is actually a much better substance now available for chelation.  It is Pectasol chelating fiber.  It is easy to take, extremely gentle and has no known side effects.  It has been tested and found safe and effective with small children.   It is very effective at pumping lead and mercury out of the bloodstream and thus out of the body.  I have been using it for some time and am very happy with the results I am getting.  - George

http://www.econugenics.com/p-70-pectasol-chelation-complex.aspx
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Iceman

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2010, 03:40:05 PM »

so george - do you think that we should buy this product - basically ive reduced everything now down to :
pentox + ubiquinol - so do you suggest I do add this to the regime?

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crashbandit

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2010, 05:06:43 PM »

How does one know they might have a heavy metal build up? I ate alot of tuna at one time that was apart of a protein diet.
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George999

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2010, 06:44:52 PM »

Guys, the whole question of chelation is a tough one.  On the one hand, its yet another product and expense added to the list.  On the other hand, there are stories of people having gotten significant relief from all sorts of issues by doing it.  I came upon, not because of Peyronie's, but because of ideopathic neuropathy.  That is just the type of issue that REALLY brings up the subject of chelation since multiple heavy metals are actually neurotoxins.  So I was ready to do DMPS or DMSA which are really heavy duty in terms of harshness and potential side effects and I even discussed it with my doctor and was on track to do it when I came across Pectasol.  I DEFINITELY feel that it has been helpful for the neuropathy because I just about don't have it anymore and that from a point of it being really debilitating.  The Peyronie's, I'm not so sure.  For certain it hasn't hurt anything.  But Pectasol makes it easy enough that I am continuing to do it off and on just to get and keep myself well cleaned out.  For Peyronie's, I would put any potential effectiveness for Pectasol way down the list.  Pentox and Ubiquinol are top of the list must do treatments.  Pectasol is something every guy would have to figure out for themselves.  I only mentioned it because Mateo brought chelation up.  I really can't recommend DMPS or DMSA to anybody because of the availability of Pectasol.  Personally I feel Pectasol is better and safer than EDTA, but that is just my own opinion on that matter.  As far as tuna, the type of mercury contained in tuna is organic mercury.  This is a different animal from elemental mercury which one gets by being exposed to industrial sources like mercury containing paints or broken fluorescent lamps.  In my case, I have gotten more than my share of exposure to both, plus significant exposure to lead.  Organic mercury also produces different symptoms than elemental mercury although both cause serious problems.  The problem with heavy metal poisoning though, is that it causes lots of inflammatory problems, so for that reason getting rid of it would no doubt be beneficial for Peyronie's.  But it really is very difficult to know whether you have it or not because heavy metals tend to settle in the tissues which makes blood tests pretty useless.  They can give you a rough idea whether you have a problem or not, but really don't do a very good job of evaluating how serious the problem might be.  Personally for me Pectasol has been worth the cost.  But everyone has to make their own decision as to whether or not it is worthwhile for them.  - George
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samsabina

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #54 on: March 22, 2011, 10:58:54 AM »

Someone below says not to take Magnesium and D3 together.

That's probably true for people on dialysis or with kidney failure. But you have to understand, D3 *helps* with Magnesium absorption. Many Magnesium supplements have D3 in them, because it helps the Magnesium get into the blood.

Of course, people who can't get the magnesium out of their blood (because of compromised kidney function) would be more likely to get overly high levels of magnesium if they stick more magnesium in their blood. But I don't think that's the issue for most people here.

But I'm planning to take my D3+K2 sublingual tabs at the same time as the magnesium.
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crashbandit

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2011, 01:24:06 AM »

Someone below says not to take Magnesium and D3 together.

That's probably true for people on dialysis or with kidney failure. But you have to understand, D3 *helps* with Magnesium absorption. Many Magnesium supplements have D3 in them, because it helps the Magnesium get into the blood.

Of course, people who can't get the magnesium out of their blood (because of compromised kidney function) would be more likely to get overly high levels of magnesium if they stick more magnesium in their blood. But I don't think that's the issue for most people here.

But I'm planning to take my D3+K2 sublingual tabs at the same time as the magnesium.


I always take my 5,000UI Vit D3 with a magnsium malate horse pill most nights, sometimes I skip the magnesium and do just the Vit D.

Is Vit D and Magnesium dangerous at all when taken together? Expecially for many nights in a row?
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George999

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2011, 11:12:16 AM »

Major calcium supplements, by default, are formulated with a combination of vitamin D and magnesium.  This whole chain of concern with Vitamin D and magnesium started out with something Fred posted based on information from drugs.com advising not to take vitamin D and magnesium together out of concern over hypermagnesemia.  Note that the concern is rated "Moderate".  I would ONLY pay attention to this if 1) you already have kidney issues OR 2) you are taking large amounts of magnesium.  I don't think this is a concern for someone taking one typical 500mg magnesium supplement a day along with their vitamin D.  Additionally, if you are taking more than 2,000IU of vitamin D, you should be checking your serum vitamin D levels to make sure you are not getting too much.  If you get anywhere near hypermagnesemia, you will end up with nasty and persistent diarrhea and you will know there is a problem.  If this is happening, then scale back your magnesium intake.   - George
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goodluck

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #57 on: July 26, 2011, 11:35:06 PM »

This whole topic of chelation is huge and controversial.  It is just a good idea to have your hair tested to get a very rough idea if you have any heavy metals.  You can order the test with out a doctor.  Doctors Data does it and I have used King James Labs in Cleveland, OH.  The hair test is not considered ultra accurate but it will give you an idea if you have a big issue.  Blood is not a good method to test as mentioned earlier.  A 24 hour urine test is better.  You can even do a provolked urine test by ingesting a chelator like DMPS the night before you collect your urine.   

There are many points of view and philosophies around this. I am still gathering information as it is a huge topic and conflicting opinions are everywhere.
One thing I have read more than once is that if you are very toxic you need to be carefull as to how you chelate becausue you can move the metals from soft connective tissue to your brain and that is not good.

I would recommend looking at the low dose chelation Yahoo group.  It is based on the works of Andy Culter who has several books out on the topic of chelation.  His books are on Amazon and he is considered an expert on the topic.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/?yguid=303518245

George, thanks for recommending Pectosol.  Do you have a recomended protocol on how to use it?
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George999

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2011, 01:17:38 AM »

Here are just a few links on Pectasol:

http://www.econugenics.com/p-70-pectasol-chelation-complex.aspx

http://www.econugenics.com/t-our-commitment.aspx

http://www.cancerdecisions.com/content/view/465/2/lang,english/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20462856

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18616067

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18219211

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17513886

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16835878

The instructions that come with it are pretty clear.  You can also look at what they used in the studies (links above).  Huge advantages over the old methods are that Pectosol is completely non-toxic AND it does not tend to move toxic stuff around in the body.  Whatever it pries loose it pretty much dumps in the urine.  But as a precautionary measure, even with Pectasol, the advice is to be safe and start out slowly giving possible heavy toxicity time to clear and then become more aggressive over time.  But it is really super stuff.  I am no longer using it at this point but plan to use it intermittently now and then just to keep my bod cleaned out.  - George

PS - iherb.com carries this product at a pretty reasonable price (its not cheap).
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crashbandit

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2011, 03:57:49 PM »

I have no idea what my metal levels are at but I sure would like to know. If I go to the doctors, can I ask them for a heavy metal test? Would a hair test be accurate like Goodluck had mentioned? Maybe I'll just get the Ca and Mg serum tested like Tim suggested, is that just a blood test?

I'm currently taking 1000mg Mag. Malate horse pills (only contain 150mg of actual Mag.) about once a week. Would this be sufficient in binding extra Calcium that might be kicking around? I wonder if the Mag. could collect the extra Calcium all ready deposited in the tissue? I'm thinking no.
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goodluck

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2011, 11:18:10 PM »

Most blood tests will not show a problem. Many false negatives. First of all it is a snap shot of that moment your blood is drawn. Secondly, the issue with metals is that they tend to lodge in tissue and often are not floating around in the blood.  A 24 hour urine test is more accurate than blood from all I have read. It shows what your body is excreting for a full day.  Some will say you need to take a chelating agent the day before the urine collection to force(provoke) the metals into the blood and then into the urine, if your kidneys do their job.  Andy Cutler is against using a provolked urine test as he feels it as too much risk.  He feels if you are very toxic it could dislodge metals and they may end up in the brain. This is controversial but you should understand both sides before embarking into it.   

A hair test is considered a good first screening test.  It is an average over the past two months of what you body has been eliminating.
If you die you hair you can use pubic hair and even nail clippings.   Other things can sway it too like swimming pool chemicals and anti dandruf shampoos.  Swimming in the ocean will raise the Soduim content.  By and large the hair test it is considered the best screen test.  You can order it yourself from Doctors Data for about $90.  King James is about $50 but they don't test as many elements.

If you look at the Yahoo group I recomended you will find tons of informaiton.  They do have an opinion but you can find links to other views as well.

Most allopathic doctors don't know much about this topic and nievely order a blood test. Then dismiss the idea it when the test comes back negative.

Again, this can be a very controversial topic. I don't claim to know alot abut it but  I would start with the hair test. The blood test is good for calcium, mag, potasium, phosperous.  Hair and blood don't always correlate with minerals but it is more data that may give some insight.  Andy Culter has a book out just on interpreting hair test results.  He feels he can tell if you have a metals issue from it alone. There is more to it than just looking at what is in or out of range.

Aslo if you are worried about calcium deposites take vitamine K2 mk-7.  K2 mk-4 may help as well. This helps put the calcium in your bone vs. soft tissue. LFE has a complex of vit K as well as the individulals.

Magnesium is important too to balance out calcium.  
Interestingly I recently read that you need to take vitamin A with D to help prevent your Vitamin K from being depleted.  It was a bit complicated but my take away was if you consume either alot of Vit D or Vit A without the other, you create a situation where your vit. K2 is depleted resulting in calcium being pulled form the bone in placed in soft tissue.

Everyone here is probably supplementing with D and I see most here recommend it should be over 50.  I would make sure you are getting some vit A with it.

I can't recall the exact article but I think it was a study done at Tufts U. and I saw it posted on a Weston Price board.

As far as magnesium goes it does work with calcium.  The conventional thinking is a 2:1 ratio of Cal:Mag. I have been reading more that closer to 1:1 may be better for most.  They say you can't take too much mag.  The worst that will happen is you get loose stools.  Some people can't absorb magnesium well so they are advised to rub a magnesium oil on the skin.   This is something I have just started and will report on my observations later. One interesting thought is that magnesium is know to dilate blood vessules. It is used in Raynauds.  Could mag oil be used on the penis to help with circulation?  Has anyone tried it?

Anyone who knows more please weigh in.  
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George999

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #61 on: July 30, 2011, 10:56:22 AM »

The typical western diet has more than adequate vitamin A.  It is very easy to get too much vitamin A.  It is the one vitamin that I scrupulously avoid.  - George
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crashbandit

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #62 on: July 30, 2011, 09:32:43 PM »

Hey Goodluck,

That's some good stuff you got going there. I guess I will inquire with my doctor about hair testing for iron. I'm worried about my iron because I remember a doctor saying to me one time that my iron was high and all I said was, "Allright alot of iron," as I flex my bicept muscle in front of him. Not until now have I realized this isn't a good thing. And I am of strong Irish/English background, known to be heavy carriers of the mutated gene responsible for iron overloading.

What are some other metals are good to have the hair tested for? So if my hair test comes back positive for high concentrations of iron, what's the chances this could still be a false positive or even the false negative like you mentioned?

So how can a blood test be useful for calcium? Would it show a high concentration that could point to high concentration of calcium absorption into the tissues?
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George999

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #63 on: July 30, 2011, 11:55:44 PM »

The body regulates calcium pretty precisely, if you don't get enough in your diet, you bod saps it from your bones to keep blood levels within range.  The ONLY thing a calcium blood test is useful for is to check for para-thyroid function.  Its the para-thyroid that controls serum calcium levels.  - George
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goodluck

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2011, 08:11:30 PM »

Acording to King James Medical Labs/Omega tech.  They claim iron levels can not be interpreted from hair.  For some reason they still check it.   

I quote:

"Iron levels in the hair have no known significance. It is not possible to interprete iron levels in the hair........Hair iron may be low when body stores of iron are high or toxic........Serum ferritin is a much more reliable indicator of iron status."

When you order the hair test they will check for a variety of elements.  They will give you a rough interpretation of your results.

The $50 hair test included:
9 trace elements
5 essential macro elements
2 non essential elements
6 Toxic elements, ..... lead, mercury, arsenic, aluminum, nickel, cadmium

Again Doctors Data check for more elements but costs more.

Ask for a full iron panel.  Feratin, serum iron, TIBC, UIBC, % saturation.  This is usually done when someone is hypothyroid and they are having trouble with the effectiveness of their thyroid meds.
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crashbandit

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2011, 09:05:21 PM »

Acording to King James Medical Labs/Omega tech.  They claim iron levels can not be interpreted from hair.  For some reason they still check it.   

I quote:

"Iron levels in the hair have no known significance. It is not possible to interprete iron levels in the hair........Hair iron may be low when body stores of iron are high or toxic........Serum ferritin is a much more reliable indicator of iron status."

When you order the hair test they will check for a variety of elements.  They will give you a rough interpretation of your results.

The $50 hair test included:
9 trace elements
5 essential macro elements
2 non essential elements
6 Toxic elements, ..... lead, mercury, arsenic, aluminum, nickel, cadmium

Again Doctors Data check for more elements but costs more.

Ask for a full iron panel.  Feratin, serum iron, TIBC, UIBC, % saturation.  This is usually done when someone is hypothyroid and they are having trouble with the effectiveness of their thyroid meds.

Right on, I'm going to go get that full panel of tests done. I found this website that is pretty good.

http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/tibc/tab/test

Scroll down to the chart. I printed that off to take to my doctor with me.

If I get the full panel iron screening. Will it 100% comfirm iron overloading?

Thanks so much goodluck
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goodluck

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2011, 11:43:30 AM »

Crash Bandit,

I don't understand Iron loading or what is behind it.  Sorry I can't give you any guidance on this.
I do know those tests are given by doctors knowledgeable in thyroid care if the patient is having trouble with their thyroid meds.
 
It sounds like it would help you and probably others if someone with any knowldege about this could chime in and shed some light on the topic.

Goodluck
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George999

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #67 on: August 03, 2011, 10:26:22 AM »

As with calcium, the body normally regulates iron pretty efficiently.  But for a few people with genetic issues iron is a problem.  They can get sick from too much iron and that sickness can be pretty easily diagnosed.  That is the reason experts warn people about taking iron ... because a *few* people can get sick from it.  Most people cannot be easily poisoned by casual iron intake.  Now if you are taking it for a long time in extremely large doses, that *can* be a problem.  So its really the same as with calcium and vitamin D which are *only* a problem if you have para-thyroid issues.  So they tell everybody not to take vitamin D in an attempt to be on the safe side.  - George
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LauRenT

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2012, 11:05:28 AM »

 Tomorrow i'll add magnesium to my list of supplement, but i'm a little bit lost about when taking it in the day and how much.
 I read that nearly 420 mg daily seems to be the normal intake, and for people who want to add magnesium supplements, it's a maximum of 350 mg ( that mean nearly 420 mg + 350mg maximum of supplement intake... so 770 mg /day).
 I'll start for the beginining with 100mg of supplement.
 I take Vit d3 ( 3000UI daily ) with 90 mcg of Vit K2 ( MK-7 ) since 1 month, with my daily supplements ( pentox, ALC, Ubiquinol, L-arginine, pycnogenol ).
 Magnesium have some interaction with these supplements?
 Better taking MG in an empty stomach or not?
 
 Thanks for your advices, take care of you all.

Laurent
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goodluck

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2012, 09:49:25 PM »

Magnesium is a mineral so it is best absorbed with food.  I don't know of any negative interactions with what you have listed but I am no expert.  I take or have taken what you have listed with upto 400mg of Magnesium citrate and have not noticed anything negative.  As George pointed out you may see a softening of your stool depending on the type of Mg and  the amount.
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peterjackson

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Re: MAGNESIUM related topics
« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2012, 05:28:03 AM »

Since I last posted I've been trying different forms. In addition to malate I've tried some of the chelated forms patented by Albion like Mg glycinate.
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