ORAL TREATMENTS - GENERAL - Vitamins, Prescriptions , Herbs, Supplements

[Iceman]

can anyone comment on the effects of this please please as I am about to place an order and want to vary my regime:

7-keto DHEA + pycogenol -

1) has anyone used these
2) has there been any benefit ( reduced pain curvature etc)
3) how does it relate to Peyronies Disease?

Please dont just go over this email and add another question so this get lost PLEASE!!!

[ocelot556]

I took 7-keto for about a month and a half, though I had to discontinue it due to budget reasons. I was taking it with another supplement (Calcium-D-glucarate? I know that's not right, but off the top of my head that's what I came up with) with the intent of using the two to raise my T levels. I noticed some improvement in my energy levels and libido, but no improvement in plaque size or curvature. I've since decided to boost my T naturally by adding a few dozen reps of leg presses a day - the legs/glutes are the largest T producing groups of muscles, so you can boost your T better than 7-keto can with some bodybulding)

I never used pycogenol, so can't weigh in on that on that one.

[despise]

Hey guys im reading up from the beginning of this post   trying to get all my knowledge down and I just finished reading page 78 and 77. So far my questions are -

"I am taking 1500mg of Bromelain per day, it's a proteolytic enzyme commonly used for tennis elbow and other types of plaque buildup"

1)What exactly is Bromelain? I only saw this one guy post this and no feed back what so ever. Quite odd because it seems like it could be usefull in the fight for peyronies.

2) Do you think acetyl l carnitine is worth taking? I am a 18 year old male and am not quite sure if it would be worth my efforts, simply because I can't afford a lot of oral medication. I just simply don't have the money to be spending on these oral treatments.

3)Lastly I am quite curious about trazadone, it seems to be very useful with night time erections and I am also curious on what it does for depression, it brings up the question about other anti depressents. I currently have a pschiatrist that I am lucky to be able to see for free and he has tried to get me on anti depressents but I have passed on everything he has tried to describe me except for Xanax, simply because I know Xanax is a synthetic drug that won't harm peyronies, and won't harm me in other way as long as I take it only once and a while, and don't get addicted. As for the other anti depressents, I can't recall what they were but I will get a update on that. They were all also addicting and had to many scary side affects, so I ended up not taking any of them. I tried lexapro for a week and then decided it wasn't worth it and discontinued taking them. I would also just like to answer a question I saw on page 77." I have never seen a post from a guy with Peyronies Disease who said he had strong nocturnal erections in 2 years on any forum.  If you are out there, could you post?" I am young and you would think that if anyone I would get strong night time erections, however that is not the case. I wake up sometimes with a erection but it will seriously deminish in a matter of seconds. I haven't woke up with a strong erection in a long time, long enough to remember. It's 4:18am over here in Los Angeles, and I took a nap from 8 to 2, I did notice I woke up with a erection but it was pretty pitiful and just went right away. Is this a bad thing or something I should not worry about? Is there even such a thing as a STRONG night time erection? Should I not be worried about not maintaining a erection after I wake up? I have noticed that my erections even with stimulation and masterbation go away pretty easily, which does worry me because again I am young, but I guess that's peyronies disease for ya.  

[slowandsteady]

I haven't had much luck with enzymes (like serrapeptase and nattokinase). If you try them, make sure it's on an empty stomach, otherwise it will be wasted for any Peyronies Disease benefit.

ALC has reduced curvature in a small study with Peyronies Disease at 2g/day. That has been posted about here a bit. Hint, use google:

Code Select Expand


site:www.peyroniesforum.net carnitine
site:www.peyroniesforum.net bromelain
site:www.peyroniesforum.net pycnogenol arginine


For nighttime erections, improved blood flow, and improved NOx production, pycnogenol and arginine are a great nutritional intervention.

s&s

[ocelot556]

While I have no actual evidence, I feel that most of my (marginal) improvements have come while talking Acetyl-L-Carnitine, in addition to a whole host of other supplements. But I have, occasionally, phased ALC out separately - I feel that while taking it alone won't cure your problems, it's doing something (at least for me) in conjunction with other drugs such as L-Arginine, to help my peyronie's pain/plaque size.

As for trazodone, I have a scrip for it, though I haven't taken it in a long while. It gave me IMMEDIATE results - strong erections the first night of taking it. The kind that would wake me up when I was rolling over in my sleep, because I was that hard that my body would go "okay, you have to mind this thing while you're tossing and turning". I don't remember getting nocturnal erections that hard even before I had peyronie's.

I don't think it helps in any way other than encouraging nightime erections, but if that's your goal... go for it. I've heard that it's fallen out of favor as a depression medication in most instances, but I do know it works on a path different than most SSRI's. Which you want to stay away from unless you really need them, as I hear they can cause sexual dysfunction problems all their own.

[Ted Williams]

Wow!  I started something with the "Zone Diet"!  

I am just getting back.  My thanks to George and Skjaldborg for their explaination.  

Regarding fish oil, my attraction to this is because of its anti-inflamatory qualities.  I go from personal experience.  I actually have a bit of a paleo-lifestyle.  After discovering Peyronies, I changed my lifestyle to be more healthy.  I work out very intensely in a mixed cardio-weight scenario and I do it frequently.  To recover faster, I was advised to take fish oil.  I was told it would mitigate the pain I was feeling post work-out.  (ice-packs on both shoulders.)  It was a miracle.  I recover much faster and feel great after the work outs.  This sent me on the path of Zone-Anti-Inflamatory eating.

To Fred:  

With Fish Oil, the trick is to get the highly purified oil.  Fish may contain toxic levels of heavy metals like Mercury and Lead.  That is why you should be careful w/your selection.  I go with the Zone brand for no other reason then that they advocate highly purified.  I am not familiar with your brand of fish-oil.  

Regarding the web-site, it is designed to get you to buy his book.  It will give you enough information that you need to get more.  The first book is "Enter the Zone" I believe.  It will give you the information you are looking for.  He is out to make a buck, but he is a sincere man...  I don't mind profit on a good product.  

Regarding the snack bars.  I buy them for a little more than a buck each.  I am going to start buying them in bulk.  

Basically, I use them prior to a work out, 3:30 snack and a late night snack.  Of course I have other snacks I eat, but if I don't feel like fruit or I am on the run, a Zone Bar hits the spot.  The concept is eating in a way that is like creating a food "dose" to maximize your hormonal levels through-out the day for maximum performance.  High sugar levels are not a concern if you are behaving well through out the day.  It is the carbo-component of your snack... it is just a lower quality carb...

On the days that I "stay-in-the-zone", I feel great.  On the days that I go to Burger King... I feel like crap.  

As for the relation to Peyronies... I have several plaques, and they have all remained soft or have softened.  Their is mild improvement with life-style change and I think I have set my body up to maximize my response to Pentox, VED and eventually Xiaflex.

I hope this is helpful... great info from everyone on the diet concepts of Paleo and Zone... I am a fan of both.

Ted.

[Fred22]

Ted,

Thanks for the info.  I figured there was a book expaining this concept, but for some reason didn't see it adverised on the website.  I may check it out.  BTW, what is "molecular baking"?

Fred

[skunkworks]

the taste of l-arginine and taurine is one of the most horrible things I have ever tasted.

[PTMAN]

HELLO TO ALL.
I HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER I AM POSTING IN THE CORRECT PLACE, AS I AM VERY CONFUSED REGARDING "OUR" WEBSITE". I HAVE READ SO MANY POSTS IN THE PAST YEAR AND A HALF, THAT I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE TO START! LET ME BEGIN BY THANKING EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU ON THIS FORUM, AS YOUR WORDS HAVE CARRIED ME THROUGH SOME DARK TIMES, AND OCCASIONALLY MADE ME LAUGH. MOST TIMES I LEACH A BIT OF HOPE FROM YOU ALL. A SPECIAL THANKS TO OLD MAN, TIM, ANGUS, LIAM, (HOPE I HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN SOMEONE), FOR CONTINUALLY RUNNING AN INFORMATIVE AND DISCIPLINED SITE.
BY WAY OF INTRODUCTION, I AM A 49 Y/O WHITE MALE, AND HAVE SUFFERED THE EFFECTS OF PEYRONIE'S SINCE EARLY SUMMER 2008. IT BEGAN WITH A DOWNWARD CURVE TO APPROX. 50 DEGREES.
PAIN WAS VENTRAL AT THAT TIME, ALL ALONG THE SHAFT. AFTER READING ABOUT THE FASTSIZE TRACTION DEVICE, I ORDERED ONE. I, LIKE MANY, FOUND IT VERY DIFFICULT TO WEAR THIS THING MORE THAN 2 HOURS A DAY, AND SUBSEQUENTLY STOPPED AFTER ABOUT A MONTH. AFTER A PERIOD OF APPROX. 4-5 MONTHS AFTER D/C'ING THE FASTSIZE, THE PAIN HAD ESSENTIALLY GONE AWAY, REPLACE BE A "TIGHT" FEELING BENEATH. SHORTLY AFTER THIS, I NOTICED A "NODULE" FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, HAD FORMED ON THE LEFT SIDE OF MY MEMBER, RIGHT AT THE BASE, AND SHORTLY AFTER THAT, A HEAVY "DENT" APPEARED AT THIS SITE. THIS BENT ME TO THE LEFT AND DOWNWARD. NOT LONG AFTER, A SMALLER NODULE APPEARED ON THE RIGHT SIDE, AND RECENTLY, ONE ON TOP... ALL AT THE BASE OF THE SHAFT. IT SEEMS NOTHING HAS HAPPENED SINCE THEN, THANK GOD, AND I THINK I AM NOW STABLE (KNOCK ON WOOD)(INSERT JOKE HERE)...IN MY TEENS, I MEASURED JUST OVER 7", BUT AM NOW AT 5". NASTY BUGGAR OF A DISEASE! AS I AM IN THE HEALTH CARE FIELD, I KNEW ALL ALONG WHAT I HAD, AND EDUCATED MYSELF, MOSTLY ON THIS BOARD. GOD BLESS YOU ALL, AS TO WHAT COULD BE DONE. I HAVE WAITED PATIENTLY FOR A YEAR AND A HALF TO BE ONE OF THE APPROX. 33% WHO RESOLVE. NO LUCK... I HAVE THEREFORE APPROACHED MY FAMILY DOCTOR, JUST THIS MORNING, ABOUT THE PROBLEM. HE AGREED TO PRESCRIBE TRENTAL, AND OFFERED TO REFER ME TO A UROLOGIST 50 MILES AWAY. I HAVE NO IDEA IF THIS DOCTOR HAS ANY KNOWLEDGE OF PEYRONIE'S TREATMENT OR NOT. I DECLINED. MY REASONING: HE CAN TELL ME I HAVE PEYRONIE'S, WHICH I ALREADY KNOW. HE COULD DO SURGERY, WHICH I WON'T GO FOR AT THIS TIME. HE COULD DO "INJECTIONS", WHICH I WON'T ALLOW BASED ON ADVICE OF MAJORITY ON THIS BOARD. IF THERE WAS ANOTHER "MAGIC BULLET" OUT THERE, I'M RELETIVELY CERTAIN ONE OF YOU WOULD HAVE PUT IT OUT IN 10 INCH HEADLINES! IN SHORT, I'M MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE WITH MY DOCTOR FOR NOW, AND HE'S SHOWN A WILLINGNESS TO WORK WITH ME. I HAVE TODAY, STARTED A REGIMEN OF TRENTAL 400mg 3 TIMES A DAY, ALONG WITH L-ARGININE 1000mg 2 TIMES A DAY, VITAMIN E 400 UNITS 3 TIMES A DAY, AND SAW PALMETTO FOR A SLIGHTLY ENLARGED PROSTATE. I PLAN TO CONSUME 8 OZ OF POM WONDERFUL 2 TIMES A DAY, AS IT IS REPORTED TO "OPEN" CLOGGED ARTERIES, AND CAN HENCE IMPROVE SEXUAL FUNCTION. I ALSO WILL ORDER THE VITALITY FROM FITZ BASED ALMOST SOLELY ON ADVICE FROM "OLD MAN".
I HAVE SO MUCH TO SAY, BUT I'LL TRY TO KEEP FUTURE POSTS SHORTER.
I'M NOT AT NEARLY THE EDUCATION LEVEL AS SOME OF YOU, ESPECIALLY IN THE AREA OF CELLULAR BIOLOGY, SO BEAR WITH ME, BUT I MAY HAVE AT LEAST A FEW THINGS TO ADD TO YOUR DISCUSSIONS. AND IF I POST IN THE WRONG PLACE, PLEASE CORRECT ME, AS I'M NOT EXACTLY "MR. COMPUTER".
I LOOK FOREWARD TO GETTING TO KNOW EACH OF YOU, AND BEING A FAIRLY FREQUENT POSTER.
WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO COMMENT ON MY SELF-MEDICATION REGIMEN?  

[LWillisjr]

HE COULD DO "INJECTIONS", WHICH I WON'T ALLOW BASED ON ADVICE OF MAJORITY ON THIS BOARD. IF THERE

LOOK FOREWARD TO GETTING TO KNOW EACH OF YOU, AND BEING A FAIRLY FREQUENT POSTER.

WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO COMMENT ON MY SELF-MEDICATION REGIMEN?

PTMAN,
Unfortunately.......   welcome to the group. Clearly you have done your homework and are off to a good start. I think your med plan at the moment is a good one. Just don't expect any overnight results as it takes time.

Regrading the injections....  I'm going to to out on a limb here. I don't agree that the "majority" on this board advise against the injections. I do know that Old Man and Jackp did have bad experiences with injections and I respect their advice and opinions. And many others on this forum will say they don't recommend the injections based on this and the fact that many of us don't want anything jabbed into our penis and will therefore also recommend against it. But keep in mind.... there are those who have had the injections although with limited success, but with no side effects. I for one had them, and although they did not help, there were no side effects. And there have been some recent posts from people who had the injections and stated they helped them. I only say all this to simple say not to totally rule out injections as a possibility. I go to Dr. Levine and it is usually part of his standard treatment approach to at least try a few of them. He has many patients and has published studied regarding this approach. The injections have there best chance of helping during the first 12 months of Peyronies Disease detection druing the active phase. Beyond this I think there is little chance of success from VI's.

Which leads me to my next thought.......  It is great you have found a doctor you can work with. That in itself is half the battle. I don't know where you live but would encourage you to seek out a male functional specialist who also specializes TREATMENT of Peyronies Disease. Many doctors can diagnose it..... few are specialists in treating it.

And finally.....   welcome to the group. Looking forward to future posts and sharing.

Les Willis

[PTMAN]

THANKS, WILLIS!
GOOD TO MEET YOU (KIND OF)...
ONE OF THE MEDICINES IS REALLY MESSING WITH MY HEAD. KINDA DIZZY AND "DRUGGED" FEELING, NOT IN A GOOD WAY!
HAVE NOTICED A DIFFERENCE SINCE MY FIRST DOSE IN THAT THE MEMBER FEELS SLIGHTLY WARM... WONDERED IF ANYONE ELSE HAS NOTICED THIS. ALSO, HAD SOFT "WOOD" ALL NIGHT LONG, WITH REALLY RESTLESS SLEEP. PRETTY TIRED TODAY. WILL I ACCLIMATE TO THIS DRUG, AS I ASSUME IT'S THE TRENTAL?
I HAVEN'T RULED OUT ANY TREATMENT OPTION COMPLETELY, BUT AS I AM ABLE TO "DO BUSINESS" AT THIS TIME, I HATE TO UPSET THE APPLECART. MY HEART GOES OUT TO THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE FAR MORE DAMAGED THAN I.
THE ONLY COMPLAINTS I REALLY HAVE IS THAT IT APPEARS SOMEONE HAS TAKEN A RATHER LARGE BITE OUT OF MY MEMBER AT THE BASE (AGAIN, INSERT JOKE HERE) AND I HAVE LOST APPROX. 2" OF LENGTH. BUT FROM THE THINGS I READ HERE, I COUNT MYSELF FORTUNATE.
ONE QUICK QUESTION: I HAVE SEEN SEVERAL POSTS REGARDING ANYONE WHO HAS HAD SUCCESS WITH ELIMINATION OR LESSENING OF THE "DENT". I HAVE SEEN FEW IF ANY REPLY POSTS AS TO THIS QUESTION. LEADS ME TO THINK THERE IS LITTLE HOPE FOR THIS PROBLEM SHORT OF INJECTIONS OR SURGERY? CAN ANYONE CLAIM SUCCESS WITH THIS PROBLEM?

[PTMAN]

TO ALL:
BY WAY OF TRYING TO ADD SOMETHING, I THOUGHT I'D MENTION AN OBSERVATION OF MINE OVER THE PAST FEW MONTHS... I TAKE IT FROM MANY POSTS THAT NIGHTIME ERECTIONS ARE IN SOME WAY BENEFICIAL TO PEYRONIE'S SUFFERERS, ALTHOUGH I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHY. (PERHAPS THE STRETCHING OF THE TISSUES?)
I NOTICED MONTHS AGO, PRIOR TO STARTING THE DRUGS YESTERDAY, BUT AFTER THE DISEASE HAD SET IN, THAT AT BEDTIME, IF I RAISED MY MEMBER TO THE "UP" POSITION AND LET MY BREIFS HOLD IT THERE ALL NIGHT, I WOULD HAVE HAVE SEMI RIGID WOOD MOST OF THE NIGHT, AND IN THE MORNING.
THIS DIDN'T WORK EVERY NIGHT, BUT MY ESTIMATE IS APPROX. 80% OF THE TIME... DON'T KNOW WHY.
I TESTED THE THEORY MANY TIMES. UP ONE NIGHT, DOWN THE NEXT. WOOD IN THE DOWN POSITION WAS ABOUT 20% OF THE TIME. I KNOW THIS IS A REALLY TRIVIAL THING AND IT MAY HAVE ALREADY BEEN COVERED, BUT THOUGHT I'D MENTION IT... MAY HELP SOMEONE .

[PTMAN]

CAN SOMEONE HELP... I READ A WHOLE THREAD A DAY AGO REGARDING USE OF "TIGER BALM" AND ULTRA BENGAY. AS I AM NEW TO THE BOARD, I CAN'T FIND IT AGAIN TO SAVE MY LIFE! WHERE DO I FIND IT, AS I HAVE BOUGHT SOME...

[jackp]

Pitman

After reading through your post this morning I would strongly advise you going to the VED board and start the VED routine ASAP.

Why, for your penile health, it will also help restore lost length. It will keep your penis healthy in case you need surgery later on.

You can read my success with the VED at My History, there is a link at the bottom of this post.

Jackp

[Tim468]

PTMAN, George wote about trying TigerBalm (I recall - perhaps in error) and he thought it helps. But, if you read on, he also thought it was too hard on him and ultimately was a no-go.

Go to the "Child Boards" or the introduction to topics and get caught up before you go charging off in the probably wrong direction!

Tim

[PTMAN]

HELLO, JACKP!
REST ASSURED THAT I FULLY INTEND TO BEGIN THE VED THERAPY, AND CONVERSE WITH YOURSELF, OLD MAN AND OTHERS. JUST GOTTA MAKE ONE MORE PAYMENT ON THAT PESKY CREDIT CARD. HOPFULLY WILL BE ORDERING WITHIN THE NEXT 2-3 DAYS. I PLAN TO TAKE OLD MAN'S ADVICE AND ORDER THE FITZZ 3 CYLINDER MODEL. I FEEL I HAVE TO TAKE ANY REASONABLE ACTION I HAVE AVAILABLE TO IMROVE MY CONDITION, IF ONLY SO I CAN LOOK BACK AND SAY "I DID EVERYTHING I COULD".
I WANT NO REGRETS...
I READ YOUR ENTIRE PROFILE.   MY GOD MAN, YOU'VE BEEN DOWN SOME DUSTY ROADS!!! (SORRY, MY TEXAS LINGO WILL COME OUT SOMETIMES). I THOUGHT MY LUCK WAS THE WORLDS WORST, BUT YOU'VE GOT ME BLOWN OUT OF THE WATER!!!
I'M CURIOUS THOUGH... ARE YOU STILL DOING OR TAKING ANY TREATMENTS FOR THE PEYRONIE'S, OR HAS THE IMPLANT RENDERED THAT UNNESSESSARY?
AGAIN, THANKS FOR YOUR POSTS!

[PTMAN]

HI TIM...
THANKS FOR GETTING BACK TO ME AND FOR ALL YOUR POSTS. I'VE BEEN READING THEM FOR MONTHS, AND YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN MORE HELP THAN YOU KNOW!!! I'M SO GLAD SOME COMPUTER LITERATE PERSON (UNLIKE ME) STARTED THIS FORUM.  I JUST SHUDDER TO THINK WHERE I WOULD BE WITHOUT THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE ACCUMULATED!!! PERHAPS WHERE JACKP IS WITH ALL HIS COMPLICATIONS...(SHUDDER)  ANYWAYS, THANKS A LOT!
ANYWAYS, WITH REGARDS TO THE TIGER BALM... I READ THE ENTIRE THREAD VERY CAREFULLY, AND WANTED TO READ IT AGAIN BEFORE I STARTED WITH IT. IF I RECALL, HE HAD A DRAMATIC REDUCTION OF THE "NODULES" WITH THE BALM INITIALLY, ALONG WITH SOME SEVERE "BURNING", BUT LITTLE CHANGE IN "DENT". MY LINE OF THOUGHT WAS THAT IF IT HELPED THE NODULES DIMINISH IN SIZE, OR ELIMINATED THEM ALTOGETHER, PERHAPS A MAN COULD SLOW THE PROGRESS BY USING LESS/BEING MORE PRECISE IN PLACEMENT, ETC. JUST THOUGHT IT TO BE TOO EFFECTIVE TO JUST DROP THE IDEA ALTOGETHER. I AM ABOUT TO ORDER THE FITZZ 3 CYLINDER UNIT AND THOUGHT IF THE NODULES WERE ELIMINATED OR REDUCED BY THE TIME I GET THE UNIT / START USING IT, THIS MIGHT HELP THE VED EFFICACY. (METHOD TO THE MADNESS? THANKS  PTMAN

[PTMAN]

O.K., TIM...
I GUESS I'M A HOMER, BUT I JUST DON'T KNOW.
I CAN'T SEE ANYTHING ON THE "HOMEPAGE" THAT IS TITLED "CHILDS PAGE" OR "INTRODUCTION TO TOPICS". LIKE I SAID, NOT MR. COMPUTER MAN:)

[jackp]

Pitman

If I can do it you can too. It just takes a never - ever give up attitude. Of course my wife was a lot of support and never complained.

With my implant I have a straight hard erection. The only thing I do now is exercise the implant. I pump it up at least twice a day for five minutes.  

Jackp

[George999]

PT,  The deal on the TigerBalm is that, yes, initially it worked for me, but after a few days of it, it is so irritating to the skin that you can't go on and everything just regresses to where it was before.  There are just a huge number of treatments listed on this site that some of us have found helpful.  There are others that seem promising, but no one here is sure as to their effectiveness at this point.

---BUT---

I STRONGLY recommend that to start out you go for those treatments that are KNOWN to work.  DON'T WASTE TIME on the other stuff.  The things that work are:

1)  VED as recommended to you by Jack.  Not much I can say about the VED.  Almost everyone here who has tried it swears by it.  The only thing I know of that give faster results is number 3 in my list below.

2)  Pentox which a number of us would also recommend to you.  Pentox will really reduce nodules and pain over time.  Pentox will most likely stop the Peyronie's from progressing and may even push it back a bit.  It is inexpensive, few side effects, low risk and reasonably easy to take.  Pentox requires a prescription which takes some effort.  Pentox is what I am mainly relying on for control of my Peyronie's.  It works much better than TigerBalm.

3)  If you want really fast and certain results, there is only one way to achieve that at this point and that is via surgery.

Once you take action with one or more of the above items, THEN you can begin to look at other approaches.  - George

[Old Man]

PTMAN:

Correction to Tims post about going to the child boards. That heading is no longer used on the forum. The forum was reformatted several months and we now have a home page that lists all of the "boards" that are in the forum. Each board has topics or threads listed in them.

So, just go to the home page which comes up as you log in and scroll down the page until you see the board that you want to access. Click on that link and it will bring up the sub topic items you want to use, etc. You then click on and open those you might need.

As Tim says, just scroll around on any and all of the boards that look interesting and relevant to your case.

Good luck and let us know if you have any further questions.

Old Man

[PTMAN]

Hope this isn't inappropriate, but I'd like to address several members with one post.
Old Man... thanks for clearing that up... I kinda figured it out. I can't run a "search" for Tiger Balm on the home page, or I only come up with my own posts. Gotta be on the right section.

Jackp...you sound a lot like me. At times in my life people say I'm like a bulldog when i get an idea in my head -just can't let it go till I see it through. Also been said that I'm "like a dog with a bone".
I'm left to believe I must be some sort of dog.  
Also, I believe you said in your profile (correct me if i'm mistaken) that you once had nodules. I was just wondering if you still have them, or they were removed, went away over time, etc.?

George... Homework done. Started Pentox yesterday, and about ready to order ved. Have already touched base with Old Man regarding this. We must be similar, you and I, for I too tend to think outside the box. But on your suggestion, I believe I'll take the Balm back. Besides, It's for Tigers, I'm a dog.  

Thanks to all for replying!!!    PTMAN

[skunkworks]

PTMAN - Could you cut it out with the caps? No need to have everything typed in capital letters, makes it harder to read also.

[PTMAN]

Already handled, skunkworks  

[Philip]

Newbie here and would like to know whats the best route to go in terms of Oral Treatments?
From the looks of things on here L-Carnitine, Arginine, Bromelain?  

[jackp]

PT

My peyronies started in 1995. The only oral treatments I received at the time was 400IU of Vitiaman E three times a day and Potaba. I stopped the Potaba in about a year but stayed on 400IU of vitamin E until my heart doctor took me off with my first stent in 2006.

The only signs of peyronies I have now is the scar on top of my penis and loss of length.  Regardless of what your hear other wise the AMS 700 LGX will straighten the peyronies curve if done by a skilled surgeon. www.amslgx.com.

With the help of the VED protocol and now my implant I have been able to restore my length back to 90% of my pre peyronies length. My girth has been fully restored and now a healthy 6.28".

Any time I or anyone else on this forum can be of assistance just let us know.

Jackp

[PTMAN]

Philip:
As a newby myself, let me say welcome to the forum.
From reading the posts for some time, I believe the consensus to be split between arginine and carnitine, with some believing one is better, others the other. I have read good things about both, but can unfortunately give you no personal experience, as I am new as well, and just started treatment.
I will paste my new regimen below, compiled from advice from those on this board, and research of my own. It was at least "approved of" by lwillis, who's a longtime member and one I would trust.
Again, welcome to "We Band of Bent Brothers"!!  


I HAVE TODAY, STARTED A REGIMEN OF TRENTAL 400mg 3 TIMES A DAY, ALONG WITH L-ARGININE 1000mg 2 TIMES A DAY, VITAMIN E 400 UNITS 3 TIMES A DAY, AND SAW PALMETTO FOR A SLIGHTLY ENLARGED PROSTATE. I PLAN TO CONSUME 8 OZ OF POM WONDERFUL 2 TIMES A DAY, AS IT IS REPORTED TO "OPEN" CLOGGED ARTERIES, AND CAN HENCE IMPROVE SEXUAL FUNCTION. I ALSO WILL ORDER THE VITALITY FROM FITZ BASED ALMOST SOLELY ON ADVICE FROM "OLD MAN".

Footnote: You might also want to seek out Old Man on the board, as he may have further recommendations for you!

[LWillisjr]

The recommended drugs are referred to as the PAV cocktail. You can search on this. It is a combination of several drugs including:

1. P -Pentoxifyline (Pentox, Trental)
2. A - L'Arginine, Carnitine, etc.
3. V - Viagra, Ciallis, Levitra

Vitamin E is also encouraged along with watching your vitamin D levels.

No one drug works on you would see it in capital letters on this forum somewhere and some drug company trying to market the magic Peyronies Disease elixer.

[skunkworks]

VITAMIN E 400 UNITS 3 TIMES A DAY

That is a very large dose of Vitamin E, and could be damaging to your health. Everything I have read says the dosage should be kept under 400 if you are going to be taking it long term.

[jackp]

skunkworks

That was instructions from my doctor. The reason my heart doctor took me off was he put me on Plavix.

Do you have any published information by doctors to back up your statement?

Jackp

[George999]

Actually my doctor instructed me to take 800IU of Vitamin E per day indefinitely.  As with Vitamin D, there is a lot of disagreement among doctors as to what constitutes an excessive dose.  I would certainly be interested in seeing any research that indicates that large doses of natural vitamin E are significantly hazardous to heart health.  For several months I was taking several thousand IU per day.  I stopped because one has to be very careful about potential bleeding problems when doing so and also because I found that high dosages are no better than smaller amounts in terms of Peyronie's benefits, at least not for me.  - George

[PTMAN]

skunkworks,
I read up on both this site and Googled it at length before deciding on 1200 iu/day.
When I could find a listed dosage for Peyronies, they usually mentioned this amount.
I did read where excessive use could cause problems, though. This was usually mentioned with dosage several hundred iu/day higher. I came away realizing that there is no accepted dosage for peyronies, only a range considered to be bordering on "too high". I am well below this level...
That's my rational. If you find or know something that I don't, please let me know!
You've got me re-thinking now, which may not be such a bad idea.
Thanks for looking out for me!!
P.T.

[Iceman]

can anyone please tell me the best vit e to get from iherb as im about to place an order.

thx

[skunkworks]

Google returns many results on this, but if doctors are still recommending high doses then there must be enough of a grey area in the studies to justify the use of higher than 400iu doses.

I personally also use a higher dose, but thought he should be aware of the potential risks. It seems he has done the research already though, which is commendable.

I chose my 3 x  500iu dose based on this study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10098440

[PTMAN]

Iceman,
I recently did some study on Vitamen E types. Admittedly, I don't understand what I read, but decided on some called "Ester-E" because it had at least 2 if not 3 different "dl" types.
Sadly, I can no longer find it at the local Wally-World! Couldn't tell it worked any better than the "Spring Valley" brand they now sell, as I have taken one, then the other, for some time, and had no appreciable success. Wish I could be of more help...  

[ComeBacKid]

Dear Reader,

Vitamin E, also known as alpha-tocopherol, is an antioxidant in the form of a fat-soluble vitamin. Your body's supply of fat-soluble vitamins, which also include vitamins A, D and K, accumulate and are stored in the liver and adipose (fat) and muscle tissues. In contrast, water-soluble vitamins such as vitamin C and the B vitamins are not stored but excreted regularly from the body. This means that you do not have to replenish your intake of fat-soluble vitamins as often as you do your water-soluble vitamins. Fat-soluble vitamins are also more easily absorbed by the body when consumed with some fat (the property that gives rise to the term 'fat soluble'). As with other vitamins, nutrients and minerals, it is often best to get your vitamin E by eating a varied and healthy diet rather than using supplements unless your doctor or other medical care provider specifically recommends otherwise.

The U.S. Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for vitamin E in individuals 14 years or older is 22.5 IU (15mg). If a woman is breastfeeding, that requirement increases to 28.5 IU (19mg). There is no need to exceed the RDA level of intake unless you have been diagnosed with a vitamin E deficiency or another condition that would put you at risk for a deficiency. With those numbers in mind you may find that taking 1000 IU, or even 400 IU, of vitamin E daily over the long term can do some damage to your wallet (and possibly your body) without much benefit. Don't forget that the pills are not the only source of vitamin E going into your body; you will also be getting vitamin E through foods such as:

almonds, peanuts, filberts
wheat germ, cereal grains
turnip greens, broccoli, spinach, leafy greens
peaches, strawberries
egg yolks
milk fat
liver
sunflower and safflower oils
If you have been taking vitamin E supplements, you don't need to worry just yet; it does not appear to be harmful in large doses of up to 1500 IU per day over a short period of time. However, recent studies have shown that taking supplements of over 400 IU over the long term is associated with an increased risk of mortality (from all causes). The reason for this association is not clear and some of these studies have been criticized due to flaws in their designs, such as small sample size and use of subjects who were already sick. However, you might want to consider your reasons for taking vitamin E supplements before adding them to your routine over an extended period of time.

One of the potential dangers of long-term use is that high levels of vitamin E may increase one's risk of prolonged bleeding, especially for those who suffer from a vitamin K deficiency or those taking anti-coagulants (blood thinning agents) such as warfarin, heparin or aspirin. The body needs vitamin K in order to form blood clots. Taking high doses of vitamin E can greatly increase one's vitamin K requirement, which, for someone who already has a vitamin K deficiency, could put her/him at a greater risk for hemorrhaging. Vitamin E has not been found to produce blood-clotting abnormalities in individuals who are not vitamin K deficient.

Finally, as with any dietary supplement, the amount of vitamin E in each pill can vary greatly because the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) does not regulate nutritional supplements. That is, your 400 IU supplement may contain much more, or much less, vitamin E than what is listed on the label. After reading all of this, if you feel a vitamin E supplement is a good choice for you, it would be wise to speak with your health care provider about how much to take and how to find a reliable supplement brand.

Alice

Source- http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/0962.html

I've read and heard the same as skunkworks, not to go above 400IU per day for a long period of time.  There is no study that shows vitamin E works for peyronies, nor have I ever heard anyone in the last 10 years tell me it helped them.  Compare that to all the people who have said pentox helped them and Dr. Lue's studies, and its  a no brainer...

[George999]

I've read and heard the same as skunkworks, not to go above 400IU per day for a long period of time.  There is no study that shows vitamin E works for peyronies, nor have I ever heard anyone in the last 10 years tell me it helped them.  Compare that to all the people who have said pentox helped them and Dr. Lue's studies, and its  a no brainer...

If I had it to do over again, I would not be fiddling around with Vitamin E and supplements.  I would go straight for the Pentox.  The ONLY exception in terms of supplements for me would be vitamin D, and in that case I would make it a priority to get tested and take Vitamin D3 accordingly.  But Vitamin D is NOT a true vitamin.  It is rather an essential naturally occurring hormone.  When it is insufficient the damage is far more nasty and widespread than vitamin deficiencies.  And of course another strategy that is proven is the VED.  So as we old timers around here can afford to debate the merits and intricacies of all sorts of arcane approaches to treating Peyronie's, it is VERY IMPORTANT that new comers start out with things that are known to work from the get go.  If you are a newcomer, and especially if you are newly diagnosed, you will NEVER have this opportunity again.  Doctors will advise you to "watch and wait".  Voices from all directions will advise you to try this and try that.  Other voices will try to convince you to pay big money for an elusive but certain "cure".  But my advice as one who has seen it all is to get on something that WORKS and do it quickly.  If your doctor won't prescribe it for you, find one who will.  But don't fiddle around with stuff like Vitamin E, not even with premium forms of Vitamin E.  Instead, don't waste any more time and get yourself on Pentox while there is still possibility of stopping Peyronie's in its early stages.  - George

[Skjaldborg]

Regarding vitamin E, I asked Dr. Lue point blank if there were any other anti-fibrotic, pro-healing medications at all in the world that I should be taking in addition to pentox, side effects be damned. He said no, pentox is the one. This guy would know.

Vitamin E is another in a long line of medications that are generally harmless but of dubious efficacy that we all take at first because most uro's have vaguely heard something or other about vitamin E being good for Peyronie's and vitamin E "won't hurt." It's part of the throw-everything-at-the-wall-and-hope-something- sticks-mentality that occurs when there's no real cure.

I stopped taking vitamin E in month 3 or 4 because I read that it is a blood thinner and shouldn't be  taken in conjunction with other blood thinners-like pentox.

-Skjald

[ComeBacKid]

Vitamin E will harden your arteries if taken at high levels over 400IU for a long period of time.  This is what I've read and heard.

[jackp]

CBK

Any medical literature to back up that statement?

Jackp

[Iceman]

just ordered pycnogenol - anyone had anything to do with this or any positive results??

Thx

[skunkworks]

If I had it to do over again, I would not be fiddling around with Vitamin E and supplements.  I would go straight for the Pentox.   George

This seems to suggest that the two are mutually exclusive. I agree that pentox is the first and foremost treatment we have available.

However this study suggests (to me) that there could well be a benefit to taking both at the same time.

Striking regression of subcutaneous fibrosis induced by high doses of gamma rays using a combination of pentoxifylline and alpha-tocopherol: an experimental study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10098440

[ComeBacKid]

Sorry, I was mistakened, it is smoking that causes hardened arteries over time.  The only thing I've read is what i posted below, that vitamin E can be unhealthy in large doses, more studies are needed on this. After 6 years of reading postings and learning new contradictory information, it will make your head spin!  

Although I will say I haven't heard one person tell me vitamin E helped them, it wouldn't hurt to take it, but I personally wouldn't go over 400IU.  If I did take it  for a peyronies treatment I would only do it for a few months, maybe two and then quit.  I have read not to take high dosages though cause it is unhealthy, I thought it was cause it hardened your arteries.

[Iceman]

does anyone think this is interesting:


 

07/15/2009
Study Demonstrates the Anti-inflammatory Properties of Pycnogenol® on Inflammatory Mediators COX-2 and 5-LOX

Pycnogenol® found to inhibit pain and inflammation causing enzymes

GENEVA, Switzerland – A recent study published in "International Immunopharmacology," reveals why Pycnogenol® (pic-noj-en-all), an antioxidant plant extract from the bark of the French maritime pine tree, is effective for reducing inflammation and soothing pain associated with various health problems. Dr. Raffaella Canali of the National Research Institute on Food and Nutrition in Rome, Italy, found that Pycnogenol® inhibits the generation of COX-2 and 5-LOX, two naturally occurring enzymes associated with a host of inflammatory conditions.

"This study reveals that Pycnogenol can actually decrease pain and reduce inflammatory conditions, as has been previously reported, by shutting down the production of specific enzymes involved with inflammation," said Dr. Canali.

Inflammation is a tightly controlled, concerted action of immune cells fighting infections, irritations and injuries. When inflammation goes out of control it may target the body's own tissue such as in arthritis or asthma. The worst known cases are the auto-immune diseases.

The study investigated healthy volunteers ranging from ages 35-50, who consumed Pycnogenol® tablets (150 mg) for five consecutive days in the morning before breakfast. Blood was drawn before and after supplementation to investigate how immune cells respond towards pro-inflammatory stimuli. The behavior of specific white blood cells (leukocytes) for generating a repertoire of enzymes in inflammatory condition was tested by real-time PCR. The gene expression of enzymes COX-2, 5-LOX, FLAP and COX-1 were monitored and the products these enzymes generate, prostaglandins and leukotrienes, were quantified.

A baseline study revealed that the volunteers' immune cells rapidly initiated production of COX-2, 5-LOX and FLAP enzymes upon pro-inflammatory stimulation. Taking Pycnogenol® almost entirely subdued COX-2, 5-LOX and FLAP induction in the immune cells of volunteers. Control studies showed that Pycnogenol® did not have an effect on generation of the COX-1 enzyme, thus the potential for typical NSAID side effects is defied. While Pycnogenol® is not a COX-2-specific inhibitor; it blocks the COX-2 enzyme production during inflammation only. There are COX-2 enzymes not involved in inflammation in other organs such as the kidneys, where it has important physiologic functions.

"Standard NSAID medications reduce the production of prostaglandins by COX enzymes for lowering the pain," explains Dr. Canali. "In contrast, Pycnogenol® turns to the root of the problem, completely stopping the production of COX-2 in inflammation. Thus far, Pycnogenol® seems to be a unique tool for modulating inflammatory processes."

These pharmacologic findings are consistent with past clinical trials of Pycnogenol® that showed significantly lowered leukotriene levels in asthmatic patients, a condition originating from 5-LOX. Three recent clinical trials also showed pain relief and a reduced need for pain medication in arthritis patients after taking Pycnogenol®, results that are linked to COX-2 inhibition. One arthritis study showed a significant reduction of inflammatory marker C-reactive protein. Pycnogenol® has been shown to inhibit inflammation in several dysmenorrhoea studies and also a reduction in skin inflammation related to sunburn and acne.

About Pycnogenol®
Pycnogenol® is a natural plant extract originating from the bark of the maritime pine that grows along the coast of southwest France and is found to contain a unique combination of procyanidins, bioflavonoids and organic acids, which offer extensive natural health benefits. The extract has been widely studied for the past 40 years and has more than 220 published studies and review articles ensuring safety and efficacy as an ingredient. Today, Pycnogenol® is available in more than 700 dietary supplements, multi-vitamins and health products worldwide. For more information, visit www.pycnogenol.com.

Horphag Research Ltd. is the exclusive worldwide supplier of Pycnogenol® (pic-noj-en-all) French maritime pine bark extract. Pycnogenol® is a registered trademark of Horphag Research Ltd.; Guernsey and its applications are protected by U.S. patents #5,720,956 / #6,372,266 and other international patents. Horphag Research Ltd. Is the recipient of the 2008 Frost & Sullivan North American Health Ingredients Excellence in Research Award. For more information about Pycnogenol® visit our Web site at www.pycnogenol.com

[jackp]

CBK

I agree with the smoking 100%.

I can attest to the fact that 400IU of Vitiamin E 3 times a day helped me. It helped keep the blood flow to my penis.

I attribute a lot of my blood flow problems to the testosterone gel's I was on for years. Even though I complained to my urologist at the time that was all he recommended. Every time I went to my arthritis doctor he would complain of my blood being too thick.

After I changed urologist and started the testosterone shots my blood level returned to normal. I also think the thick blood was a factor in my heart problems when I had to have stents. All this happend within a few months.

My heart doctor said the vitamin E I was taking was not a problem but after the stents he took me off it and put me on Plavix.

I do know that blood thinners help penile function and feelings in men with cornary artery disease. While I was on warfarin for 3 months I had a lot better feelings in my penis.

Just me take.

Jackp

[Ashen]

Iceman - there is a thread titled l-arginine at bedtime, give it a read.  You will find a handful of people using l-arginine and Pycnogenol together.  Taken around dinnertime people claim to have very good nocturnal erections.  I will be trying this combo out in a week or so once my Pycnogenol comes in.

I will first try 500mg of l-arg and 60mg of Pycnogenol and see what kind of results it gives.  Then I may step up the l-arg to 1g and keep Pycnogenol at 60mg.

[George999]

If I had it to do over again, I would not be fiddling around with Vitamin E and supplements.  I would go straight for the Pentox.   George

This seems to suggest that the two are mutually exclusive. I agree that pentox is the first and foremost treatment we have available.

However this study suggests (to me) that there could well be a benefit to taking both at the same time.

Striking regression of subcutaneous fibrosis induced by high doses of gamma rays using a combination of pentoxifylline and alpha-tocopherol: an experimental study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10098440

My comment was directed toward NEWBIES.  The complete post, I hope, would make that clear.  Once ON PENTOX. other options are open as well, but fiddling with them without Pentox is asking for a downhill slide.  - George

[ComeBacKid]

Jackp,

Your the first who has told me vitamin E helped you, I'm glad it did!  I'm not on a mission against vitamin E, but for years urologists would say take vitamin E and that was a bit of a joke.  Many people have tried it with no success.  Perhaps if you were on anything else that could of helpe dyou as well.  Pentox for me almost immediatlely helped the flow of blood to my penis as it grew in the flaccid size and looked pump, must have something to do with blood thinners and the blood getting to all the hard to reach areas, nothing could work that fast (within 24 hours).

[Iceman]

why doesnt anyone answer me anymore arghhhhhhh.....please dont dominate this forum guys....you know who you are.

[newguy]

why doesnt anyone answer me anymore arghhhhhhh.....please dont dominate this forum guys....you know who you are.

I think that Pycnogenol is potentially interesting when used alongside l-arginine (and moreso in conjunction with pentox and possibly viagra). Thanks for posting the study, the one relating to l-arginine and pycnogenol in relation to erection strength is worth checking out if you haven't already.