Peyronies Society Forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: BLOOD PRESSURE meds effect on Peyronie's  (Read 3398 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

George999

  • Major Contributor
  • ****
  • Country: us
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2774
Re: blood pressure meds
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2012, 12:05:48 PM »

I have never heard of any problems with either of these two meds.  Irbesartan is VERY safe and, if anything, would prevent or lesson the impact of Peyronie's.  It is very anti-inflammatory in its effects.  Diltiazem on the other hand COULD be a factor.  It works by messing with calcium channel metabolism, so while I have never heard of it triggering Peyronie's, if one is susceptible to Peyronie's in the first place, it would seem to me very possible that a calcium channel blocker could tip the scale in that direction.  Also, I might mention, I would also be a bit suspicious of Prazosin (Minipress).  Because of Prazosin mode of action, it would occur to me that STOPPING Prazosin could create a rebound effect that could trigger Peyronie's.  Prazosin works by relaxing smooth muscle.  When you STOP taking it, you are going to trigger a sudden constricting effect on smooth muscle tissue which could significantly limit blood flow to critical tissues for a period until the body adjusts.  This would actually concern me more than the effects of Diltiazem.  And I see totally NO possibility that Irbesartan could be a problem.  - George
Logged

capone

  • PDS Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1
Re: blood pressure meds
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2012, 06:16:29 AM »

In 2000 for blood pressure control, I was taking Minipress (Pfizer Australia) and had no ill effects. I was changed by my specialist to Karvea (Irbesartan) and Cardizem (Diltiazem) - both supplied by Sanofi-Aventis Aust.

Immediately after taking these new medications, with my first erection, the effects of Peyronie's disease appeared. I did not know that it had a disease name until 2011. It was obvious to me that it was instantly caused by either of these drugs or a combination thereof and I changed my GP and he ceased this medication. Over the 10 year period there has been no pain or inflammation and it is neither improving nor getting worse. I have recently reported this to both Sanofi-Aventis and the Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration.

Has anyone else had adverse reactions to Karvea or Cardizem?
Logged

Luciano

  • Major Contributor
  • ****
  • Country: at
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 339
Re: Metformin/Berberine ...
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2012, 05:31:00 AM »

So just give yourself some time to process the information and then do your best to be creative.
Thanks George, thats exactly what I am doing... but I am considering surgery for Peyronies Disease, as I reached a point I cant handle everything at once.
The problem now is to find the correct method and of course the right surgeon to do it.
Logged

George999

  • Major Contributor
  • ****
  • Country: us
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2774
Re: Metformin/Berberine ...
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2012, 09:38:35 PM »

Luc,  I don't envy you at all.  I remember when I was working a high stress job and not eating well as a result and that was where my problems began.  It is EXTEMELY difficult to take care of oneself in the midst of a demanding and challenging job, ESPECIALLY when travel is involved.  I know that you are doing your best considering what you have to work with.  Every little effort counts even if you can't get everything exactly right.  So just give yourself some time to process the information and then do your best to be creative.  The way I do it may not work for you, but you may have opportunities that I don't.  So keep up the good fight as best you can.  It will all be worth the extra effort in the end.  - George
Logged

Luciano

  • Major Contributor
  • ****
  • Country: at
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 339
Re: Metformin/Berberine ...
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2012, 03:57:45 PM »

I know George your approach is absolutely correct.
As for me i would not be able to do it. For example today, I was covering the events in the french town of toulouse, from 4 in the morning on. until 7 pm. i didnt have time to eat, or do anything else because I was on air nearly all the time. I am very tired now and will have a steak and salad to eat. I know i should have had some food during the day and not only coffee, but there really was no time.
So i will now do my ved therapy and go to bed. I also know that if I want to get all my levels correct, I would have to find a new job that would contain less stress, and give me time to monitor my diet and do more excercise.
I will try and follow your way, because it really is worth it.
Luc
Logged

George999

  • Major Contributor
  • ****
  • Country: us
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2774
Re: Metformin/Berberine ...
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2012, 11:37:45 AM »

Luc,  I know that when one develops full blown Diabetes, the issues become far more complex and challenging.  That is why I'm pulling out all the stops to paddle myself in the other direction.  And that is what I am trying to communicate here.  Blood sugar issues are nothing to fool around with and in the Western world the standard mindset is to ignore the issue until one's health collapses and dire measures are required.  And I have resolved not to go there.  I already have tasted more Diabetes associated diseases than I have a taste for and will do whatever is required to get my insulin sensitivity back up to optimal levels.  A number of docs here in the US are claiming success in reversing full blown Diabetes with diet, exercise and drugs/supplements targeting insulin resistance directly.  That is the model for my approach and it is working beyond my wildest expectations.  My energy levels are through the roof compared to what I am accustomed to and right now I just want more of that.  I want to get my body to the point where I can enjoy comfort food now and then and not have my blood sugar levels going sky high.  And I want to get rid of Neuropathy, Hypertension, urethral inflammation, skin lesions and Peyronie's AND off of prescription drugs FOR EVER and I am seeing this route as the best shot at making that happen.  - George
Logged

Luciano

  • Major Contributor
  • ****
  • Country: at
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 339
Re: Metformin/Berberine ...
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2012, 03:23:42 AM »

I know you are right George but,
what I was trying to say is in my case, for example, diabetis was trigerred by stress. (I am journalist, and sometimes work 24/24, go into dangerous places (ex: egypt during revolution etc...)
Now my doctor thinks that main thing is to reduce stress. Having to watch hourly glucose levels, having to think what I eat every hour, being shocked while observing levels going up just after eating an apple, will induce new stress, making the levels go up without eating anything.
So his theory is to make the best of it. and controlling ac1 levels every 10 days is stress enough. I also monitor levels once a day.
Luc
Logged

George999

  • Major Contributor
  • ****
  • Country: us
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2774
Re: Metformin/Berberine ...
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2012, 10:13:05 PM »

Luc,  The problem is that if you read my posts in the New Theory thread you will see my reference to MULTIPLE studies demonstrating damage from blood sugar levels that pass Fasting Glucose and A1C tests.  So medical science is proving conventional medicine to be wrong on the assumption that these spikes above 122 are safe.  Additionally, insulin can do as much or more damage than the glucose itself.  Insulin levels spiking above 5µUI/mL are flat out dangerous.  Excessive insulin encourages auto immune activity AND causes genetic damage.  That has been demonstrated in recent research studies.  Life Extension says that current accepted levels are way too high http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2011/jan2011_Glucose-The-Silent-Killer_01.htm and so do Functional Medicine docs http://www.examiner.com/healthy-living-in-national/expert-says-diabesity-is-the-single-biggest-health-challenge-we-face.  For those who ALREADY HAVE Diabetes, ONLY reversing the Diabetes can eliminate the risk of Diabetes caused diseases.  Simply treating the Diabetes with Insulin may lower the risk, but it doesn't come anywhere near eliminating it and it can raise risks of insulin driven disease such as Cancer.  That is the bottom line.  The recent studies I have been seeing pour out have scared me to death to the degree that I will never more let my blood sugar levels spike up above 100 where they have been going for years.  Peyronie's itself is STRONGLY associate with Diabetes.  Now research shows that Neuropathy which is also STRONGLY related to Diabetes can be caused by blood sugar level FAR below what almost all doctors, including the best Diabetes docs pronounce OK.  So I now know that my docs have been lying to me about this and am certain that this is what has caused my Neuropathy AND my Peyronie's and other problems.  It is absolutely amazing to me that my Neuropathy problems have literally gone away since I have gotten my blood sugar levels down below 100 and kept them there.  For me the possibility that I can reduce my Peyronie's symptoms as well by lowering my blood sugar AND insulin levels is a huge opportunity that I am going to waste no effort in exploiting.   - George
Logged

Luciano

  • Major Contributor
  • ****
  • Country: at
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 339
Re: Metformin/Berberine ...
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2012, 02:22:34 PM »

Well there is blood sugar problem and blood sugar problem.
I am trerated by one of the best docs for internal medicine they have in this country (Austria).
He told me, as you do also George, to monitor the glucose levels closely.
and for a year I also had to have daily "Lantus" (Insulin glargine) shots to keep levels down.

But he also told me that to have a level 150 after a good meal is something completely normal (btw a dietician told me that fruit (ex. oranges) is something that make your levels rise most)
What is though the most important you have to monitor is your Glycated hemoglobin level.
That is your HbA1c level.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycated_hemoglobin

actually only a lab can do that after a blood test, but it shows your average glucose level for the last weeks.
it should be between 4.0 and 6.1
A friend of mine had 9.0, wich means that he probably had peaks of 300 at some times after meals.
I had 7.5 and had to take "Lantus" shots for a year plus a strict diet. Now I'm back at 5.8 wich he says is ok.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_glargine

What He also told me is not to drive myself crazy if I was slightly over the levels.
quote: If you feel like eating a peach.. eat it and dont spend time worrying. A one time fault doesnt really matter.
Now I have a blood test done every 10 weeks, the most important value being the HbA1c level.
Luc


Logged

George999

  • Major Contributor
  • ****
  • Country: us
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2774
Re: Metformin/Berberine ...
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2012, 12:20:05 PM »

ONLY diet can REVERSE the blood sugar problem.  BUT, in some cases, diet alone is NOT enough.  What researchers are discovering is that for people like me, whose blood sugars are spiking over 122mg/dL EVEN on a Paleo type diet, additional meds/supplements are needed for a time to suppress the blood sugar levels while the body heals.  In my case, my goal is to not have my blood sugar levels ever going over 100mg/dL.  For me that is no where near achieveable with diet alone.  My fasting level was 94.  Even the slightest bite of fruit would send my sugar levels up over 122.  And you cannot cut fruit intake radically without sacrificing nutrients.  So for me a small dose of Berberine is doing the job magnificently.  This also why you can't DEPEND on a diet to cut blood sugar levels.  Without KNOWING what your blood sugar levels are doing after a meal, 15min, 30min, 45min, etc., you have no way to KNOW where your blood sugar levels are.  For a long time now I have been following a VERY restrictive diet and I was horrified at where my blood sugar levels ACTUALLY were.  I can't imagine where they were going before I started watching my diet.  No wonder I ended up with Peyronie's and all these other problems.  - George
Logged

dioporcolorisolvo

  • Solid Contributor
  • ***
  • Country: it
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 189
Re: Metformin/Berberine ...
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2012, 02:40:45 AM »

To eliminate the problem of sugars is necessary to follow a paleodieta.
Logged

George999

  • Major Contributor
  • ****
  • Country: us
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2774
Metformin/Berberine ...
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2012, 11:30:09 PM »

The results of multiple studies are now showing that NON-DIABETIC blood sugar levels can CAUSE Diabetic Neuropathy.  (See my posts on Causes->New Theory thread for more details on this).  This is a major smoking gun.  IF such NON-DIABETIC blood sugar levels can cause Diabetic Neuropathy which is MISDIAGNOSED as IDIOPATHIC because the patient passes the Diabetes tests, then it seems to me HIGHLY LIKELY that the Peyronie's many of us are experiencing is actually DIABETIC Peyronie's, in which case lowering blood sugar levels could easily be an effective treatment, especially since lowering blood sugar levels effectively treats Neuropathy in such a situation.  (I have NEVER tested Diabetic AND I am seeing MAJOR relief from neuropathy by carefully managing my blood sugar levels.)

ADDITIONALLY, there are demonstrated pathways by which blood sugar levels can 1) damage your genes and/or 2) induce autoimmune processes.  These are mediated by insulin.  When insulin rises too high it can cause genetic damage which can result in all sorts of maladies up to and including cancer.  Higher than normal insulin levels also result in lower DHEA levels which produces an imbalance between DHEA and Cortisol and, in turn, destabilizes the immune system opening the door for autoimmune syndromes.

One way to more closely assess your risk in terms of blood sugar is to get an OGTT (Oral Glucose Tolerance Test).  This test is MUCH more sensitive in terms of detecting glucose metabolism/insulin resistance problems that the conventional fasting glucose and A1C tests.

The first level of response is, of course, diet and exercise.  The second is drug therapy.  Drug therapy should consist of either Metformin or Berberine or perhaps lesser treatments like Gymnema Silvestre or traditional blood sugar adjuncts like Cinnamon.  What should be avoided are Sulfonylureas which actually reduce blood sugar by increasing insulin production.  Since insulin is an intrinsic part of the problem, increasing it will only make matters worse.

Doing this successfully REQUIRES the use of a glucose meter.  The ONLY way to control your glucose levels is by testing your glucose levels rigorously, sometimes as often as every 15-30 minutes, to evaluate how your specific diet and specific oral routine is actually affecting your glucose levels (which are EXTREMELY dynamic) in real time.  To ensure safety, it also requires the assistance of a medical doctor as well.  But there is no doubt whatsoever any longer in my mind that lowering glucose levels would bring significant relief to many, especially those with "acute phase" symptoms.  Lowering serum glucose can radically reduce inflammation levels and should be considered as an option to attack Peyronie's symptoms.

- George
Logged

dioporcolorisolvo

  • Solid Contributor
  • ***
  • Country: it
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 189
Re: blood pressure meds
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2012, 10:22:14 AM »

I really think that these chronic diseases have MULTIPLE factors behind them.  I don't think it is any one specific thing.  Diet, lifestyle, meds, toxins in the environment, who all knows what else is what sets the metabolic stage for things like Peyronie's.  One thing is certain, chronic disease is much more common now than it was a few decades ago.  And it is striking younger and younger people.  I am convinced it is due to a conjunction of many very unhealthy factors that typify modern life.  - George

I subscribe.
Logged

George999

  • Major Contributor
  • ****
  • Country: us
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2774
Re: blood pressure meds
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2012, 08:39:55 PM »

I really think that these chronic diseases have MULTIPLE factors behind them.  I don't think it is any one specific thing.  Diet, lifestyle, meds, toxins in the environment, who all knows what else is what sets the metabolic stage for things like Peyronie's.  One thing is certain, chronic disease is much more common now than it was a few decades ago.  And it is striking younger and younger people.  I am convinced it is due to a conjunction of many very unhealthy factors that typify modern life.  - George
Logged

mike67

  • Solid Contributor
  • ***
  • Country: ca
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 155
  • surgery Feb. 2 , 2012 Plaque Incision & Graft
    • My Peyronies Surgery Story
Re: blood pressure meds
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2012, 05:32:28 PM »

I switched to Losartan Potassium ( Cozaar) 2 years ago. It is an ARB and I hardly have the cough since making the change.
Maybe the drugs had a hand in the Peyronies Disease but I don't think so. Looking back at the good old days , I think it may have been being a bit too aggressive from time to time.
I don't think anyone will be able to precisely nail the cause of this affliction. Everyone has an opinion , as valued as they are , but too many variables and no doctor will admit the drug he prescribed caused Peyronies. I have asked and they suddenly have to take a call .( figure of speech)
Logged
Mikey

hornman

  • Voting Member
  • **
  • Country: us
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 64
Re: blood pressure meds
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 01:21:55 PM »

George - At 1 point I was on Lisinopril but I developed a cough side effect.  Maybe I'll ask to try it again.  My Doc thought that since Amlodipine is a channel blocker like Verapamil it may actually help with Peyronies.

Mike - I guess its possible that the Amlodipine could have caused your peyronies to  develope slowly over a 4 yr period.  Unlikly but possible.

Thanks for your replies.

Bill
Logged

George999

  • Major Contributor
  • ****
  • Country: us
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2774
Re: blood pressure meds
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2012, 11:15:01 AM »

I would mention here that there *are* safer blood pressure meds.  ACE inhibitors such as the generic Lisinopril are less metabolically disruptive and may even be beneficial toward diseases such as Peyronie's.  The same is true of ARBs such as the generic Losartan.  On the other hand any drug that blocks major metabolic channels such as beta blockers, calcium channel blockers, etc are of a greater problem.  Statin drugs such as Lipitor can also be a problem since they directly affect glucose metabolism by altering activity of the liver.  This is why Statins are implicated in major tissue anomalies such as systemic muscle degeneration issues.  Statins obstruct CoQ10 metabolism in the liver.  CoQ10 is vital to mitochondrial health.  Over long periods of time Statins gradually wear away at the body's supply of CoQ10 and this causes gradual mitochondrial damage which can result in diseases like Peyronie's.  It doesn't occur over a short period because it takes time for mitochondria to deteriorate.  http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/statin-side-effects/MY00205  http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/health/01-09Golomb.asp - George
Logged

mike67

  • Solid Contributor
  • ***
  • Country: ca
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 155
  • surgery Feb. 2 , 2012 Plaque Incision & Graft
    • My Peyronies Surgery Story
Re: blood pressure meds
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2012, 10:06:41 AM »

Hornman
I have been on Caduet since March 2006. It is a combo of 5 mg Amiodipine / 10 mg Lipitor.
My Peyronies started in May 2010 so I don't think I can blame this drug.
I guess only your doctor can determine if there is a corelation between your pain and the drug.
I have not experienced any of the symptoms you describe here.
Mike67
Logged
Mikey

hornman

  • Voting Member
  • **
  • Country: us
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 64
blood pressure meds
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2012, 06:36:33 AM »

I,m on Amlodipine ( a calcium channel blocker) and Hydrochlorizide.  I feel like it is making my peyronies worse over time.  The beginning of last year I stopped taking them ( my pressure is only borderline high) and my pain diminished.  In Aug I resumed and now the pain is back big time.  Any one else have experiences like this?

Bill
Logged

0x5555

  • Voting Member
  • **
  • Country: ca
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 93
Re: Question RE Blood pressure medications and Peyronie's
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2011, 03:26:22 PM »

Thanks for the insight Old Man.  I'm was actually mostly kidding.  Getting old is actually quite fun, not being able to bounce back from injury as much as I used to - not as much.  I'm pretty hopeful that my condition will either stabilize or possibly improve - and if not then I'll just have to deal with that then.

Logged

Old Man

  • Senior Member - Major Contributor
  • *****
  • Country: us
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1841
Re: Question RE Blood pressure medications and Peyronie's
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2011, 10:34:19 PM »

Ox5555:

WOW, only 30 years old! I am 82 plus and expect to live a lot longer yet. You are only getting started out in life at your age. Just kidding, but thought I would let you know that getting older can be a bitch, but try to relax and enjoy some of it as you grow older.

I know for sure that life can be a pleasant or a sad journey if you let it, so lighten up and try to get your symptoms under control. Let me know if I can help with your problems in any way. Physical or mental, etc.

Old Man
Logged

Skjaldborg

  • Major Contributor
  • ****
  • Country: us
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 526
Re: Question RE Blood pressure medications and Peyronie's
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2011, 07:42:07 PM »

I got a home-use BP cuff and have been monitoring for the last month. Turns out the ER nurse who took my BP had me bend my arm while taking it, instead of holding up to heart level. This makes BP drastically higher and thus, makes for an inaccurate reading. At home and with the proper technique I'm 120/60 ish so I'm not too worried anymore.

-Skjaldborg
Logged

0x5555

  • Voting Member
  • **
  • Country: ca
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 93
Re: Question RE Blood pressure medications and Peyronie's
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2011, 04:27:42 PM »

No comment except, yeah, getting older SUCKS.  30 years old here and I wish I could go back to my carefree days pre-injury. :)
Logged

crashbandit

  • Solid Contributor
  • ***
  • Country: ca
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 230
Re: Question RE Blood pressure medications and Peyronie's
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2011, 08:58:13 PM »

http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,1715.0.html

This is a great thread George started about hypertension (AKA High blood pressure) in another section of the forum.

I think HBP is a very important factor for blood vessel health and can greatly affect Peyronies Disease.
Logged
Please use Iherb referral code HIB910 and recieve $5 off your first purchase at iherb.com

Cheers

Skjaldborg

  • Major Contributor
  • ****
  • Country: us
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 526
BLOOD PRESSURE meds effect on Peyronie's
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2011, 05:02:00 PM »

Hi All,

My doctor has found that my blood pressure is a bit high. I'm 32, athletic (a runner) and otherwise very healthy. My body weight is right where it should be so I don't have the option of losing weight to lower my blood pressure. So besides reducing salt intake and increasing potassium, are there any medications that lower BP but DO NOT increase the risk for further Peyronie's?

I'm going to try diet modification first and see if that helps. I don't want to use any medications that effect erectile performance or can cause Peyronie's (i.e. worsen my condition, which has been stable for over a year). I purchased a digital BP monitor and have been using that to check myself throughout the day. Sometimes I'm as high as 145/85 even at rest. What kills me is that my resting heart rate is like 45 BPM, which is really good.

In other news: getting older sucks!

-Skjaldborg

Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
140 Replies
15186 Views
Last post September 23, 2013, 05:54:05 PM
by LWillisjr
6 Replies
464 Views
Last post December 19, 2013, 10:33:52 PM
by skunkworks
2 Replies
156 Views
Last post July 31, 2014, 08:49:18 AM
by baban