VED study from the UK

[ComeBacKid]

I also think size varies greatly in erections, I noticed when I"m not on pentox my erections are "weak" and don't fill up properly, my penis looks smaller and thinner.  Then when I'm on the pentox its filled up and looks bigger.  Flaccid stretched is the only good way to measure, and usually an increase in flaccid will correlate to an increase in erection size, however a small flaccid size or big doesn't necessarily correlate into a small or big erection, I just mean the gain shown (change in size). 

Comebackid

[skunkworks]

Having given it some thought stretched flaccid length does seem like the only way to measure which eliminates variables rather than introduces them

[Hawk]

To each their own but doctors always seem to use stretched length and I think it is for good reason.  Erection length varies because erection intensity varies.  In addition, changes in body fat causes variations in the length of penis that extends beyond the body as Old man pointed out.  Properly conducted, stretched penis length measurements eliminates these variables.

Stretched length is consistent if done properly.  I think it is usually referred to as "Bone Pressed Flaccid Length".  A ruler in pressed against the pubic bone rather than just to the skin surface of the lower abdomen.  The reference point remains the same regardless of fat gain or loss.  Unlike erections, stretched length remains the same so you now have a consistent tissue state measured from a consistent reference point.

[mike67]

Thanks for posting the measurement info Les. Makes sense.
Mike

[lwillisjr]

It is a confusing subject. And I'm glad it has come up here. I think some of the confusion comes if one is referring to the angle that one's erection "hangs" or potrudes from your body, or whether referring to a degree of curvature.

for the first topic above, measuring the angle the erection leaves the body. I am not aware of a "standard" for measuring this as Old Man mentioned. But a common reference seems to be that straight out from the body is a reference line of 0 degrees. So if a straight erection is absolutely horizontal to the ground, then this is considered 0 degrees. If you erection points say up midway between  horizontal and straight up, this would be +45 degrees. If you point down midway between horizontal and straight down, this would be -45 degrees. Straight up +90.....  straight down -90. You get the idea.

However, as far as curvature is concerned, there is a standard for this. Forget the angle that the erection leaves the body. You follow the initial line of your erection and this is your point of reference. You can measure any curve up or down from this line of reference with a protractor. Shallow banana shaped curves are more difficult to measure than an acute curve. But is possible.

[Old Man]

mike67:

I really don't think that there is any set way to measure the angles of ones penis. The rule of thumb that I always tell guys who ask is this:  First get an erection - whether natural or one produced by the VED or other mechanical/chemical means. Then assume that the penis is normally in a straight out position. However many guys point upward, other point downward, some have a "U" or upward curve of the shaft, some have an "N" curve or downward curve of the shaft.  Strike a "happy medium of that shape or angle, then measure any degree of curve of up or down, left or right from that position. assuming a horizontal straight out position.

There is really no definite accurate measurement of these dimensions or angles. One just has to assume some arbitrary measurement based on the above. Some uros measure the length and girth of a flaccid penis and others measure it in an erect state. So, bottom line, there is always some degree of inaccuracy in these measurements, just a base rule of them, etc.

The above is based on my working with many guys over the years of ED and Peyronies Disease problems.

Old Man

[mike67]

Can someone , possibly Old Man , always so helpful , tell me what  patients use to measure the curvature?
Newly diagnosed and just joined this week.
Thanks
Mike

[skunkworks]

Having thought about it, stretched length was probably the only reliable measure they could get across the board, as a good percentage of the men in the study were most probably either impotent or had severely diminished erectile capacity. It was a Peyronie's study after all, and everyone on this board is all to familiar with this conditions effect on erectile capacity.

[newguy]

Some good points, OldMan, I hadn't thought of that aspect before.

I send an email to one of the guys behind the study, trying to enquire into areas where they didn't go into much detail. I don't know if I'll hear back or not, but it can't hurt to find out .

[Old Man]

newguy:

I have my own opinion about stretched length versus erect length. However, I must qualify what I am saying this way: since I have to use retainer rings to hold up my erect length, it is much longer than my flaccid length. The reason being is that the retainer rings are placed quite a bit further down the shaft where the excess body fat appears (not much though!!) to push out from my stomach region. The cylinder on the VED pushes back up into the body further and when the rings are slid off, they retain the extra shaft length. (Since the penis extends way back up in the pelvic area where the suspensory ligaments start the actual length is from that point rather than from the exterior body point, etc., but the measured length is from the exterior body point out to the head tip.)

The above will occur in most all cases where guys have to use the retainer rings to hold up their erections for the same reason stated above. I have observed this in several guys that have been counseled in VED usage by me. At any rate, it is a plus factor in that the added length is most welcome by all!!

The above is just my observed opinion based on local experience, etc.

Old Man

[newguy]

Why do they measure stretched penis length instead of erect length?

Maybe it's the standardised way in which they measure penis length. I say a program about penis enlargement and they used the same method. The stretched flacid penis length is the same as the erect length. Also, due to the curvature isues with peyronie's it may be easier to simply stretch the penis out to get a measurement.

One thing I noticed about the study is that they stated those with waist deformity did not see improvements in that area. I wonder if that is true of peoples experiences here, or something to do with the cylinder used in this study (no info on dimensions available at this time).

[skunkworks]

Why do they measure stretched penis length instead of erect length?

[skunkworks]

Remember that less is better than more with the pressure.

I learnt that the hard way, won't be forgetting it any time soon.

[Old Man]

Skunkworks:

Yes, you can do two sessions of VED therapy a day. However, adjust your time so that you do not over extend the time. Remember that less is better than more with the pressure.

You can also adjust the holding time between pumping cycles to suit your individual needs. Three minutes as suggested by their protocol is really not too long, but one must be careful to hold the vacuum pressure low enough not to experience any pain or discomfort with the pressure.

I am personally happy to see some study showing positive results from vacuum therapy now being published even if it is not in the USA. Sooner or later, our uros must come around to accepting that vacuum therapy can and will give positive results in more cases than not, etc. I have known for many years now that vacuum therapy could and would help with Peyronies Disease in most cases, just was not able to convince my doctors that it would.

Keep us up to date on how your modified protocol works for you.

Old Man

[skunkworks]

Well I personally will be switching to twice daily pumping due to this study. They maintain the vaccum for quite awhile though, which I am not sure I will emulate. I might start holding it for longer than 10 seconds though.

[newguy]

Brief summary below. Check the attached pdf for entire study.


The role of vacuum pump therapy to mechanically straighten the penis in Peyronie's disease.

Raheem AA, Garaffa G, Raheem TA, Dixon M, Kayes A, Christopher N, Ralph D.

Department of Urology, St Peter's Hospitals and The Institute of, Urology, London, UK.

Abstract

OBJECTIVE To assess the efficacy of vacuum therapy in mechanically straightening the penile curvature of Peyronie's disease (Peyronies Disease).

PATIENTS AND METHODS Modelling of the tunica albuginea has been shown to be possible during penile implant surgery and this principle has been applied as an alternative conservative therapy. In all, 31 patients with Peyronies Disease (mean duration 9.9 months; mean age 51 years, range 24-71) completed the study. Over a 12-week period, the patients used a vacuum device (Osbon ErecAid(R), MediPlus, High Wycombe, UK) for 10 min twice daily. The assessment at study entry and at completion after 12 weeks included the International Index of Erectile Function questionnaire, a perceived pain intensity score, stretched penile length measurement and the angle of penile deformity after an intracavernous injection with prostaglandin E1.

RESULTS There was a clinically and statistically significant improvement in penile length, angle of curvature and pain after 12 weeks of using the vacuum pump. Of the 31 patients, 21 had a reduction in the angle of curvature by 5-25 degrees , three had worsening of the curvature and there was no change in the remaining seven. The curvature was corrected surgically in 15 patients while the remaining 16 (51%) were satisfied with the outcome.

CONCLUSION Vacuum therapy can improve or stabilize the curvature of Peyronies Disease, is safe to use in all stages of the disease, and might reduce the number of patients going on to surgery.