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[slowandsteady]

Seems you should be able to take more than 200 mg magnesium without causing diarrhea.  I take the NOW Foods mag. citrate and can take 400 (their recommendation) with no problem.  Of course, I'm chronically constipated due to anti-anxiety, anti-depressat meds. Fred

I don't get full blown diarrhea, just loose stools. It seems to throw off my electrolyte balance a bit, making distance runs more difficult.

The arginine trick seems to be working so far. I took 400 mg mag glycinate with 1 g arginine last night, and so far so good. I have a 12 mile run tomorrow.

[Fred22]

I'm still taking magnesium and still having good results with it. Since I last posted I've been trying different forms. In addition to malate I've tried some of the chelated forms patented by Albion like Mg glycinate (like this one). I've only been able to take 200 mg Mg this way due to diarrhea.

It appears that taking l-arginine with magnesium might work well together to prevent loose stools (which you really don't want, since it throws the absorption of everything in the gut out of whack and depletes you of electrolytes). From this source:

In several people trying this offbeat technique, three grams of L-arginine (in compressed tablet form) per meal caused severe to extremely severe constipation while using magnesium supplementation that previously caused diarrhea. Serious constipation did not seem to occur with one gram of L-arginine per meal, although is could cause mild constipation. On the other hand, the literature says that too much L-arginine will cause diarrhea, not constipation. Who knows!

I found the same in a literature search as this writer did, that high doses of l-arginine cause diarrhea instead of constipation. Maybe things are different with magnesium in the mix.

I'll give that a test, as I'd like to go up to 400 mg of Mg glycinate. I think I'll try 500 mg of l-arginine, 100 mg of B6 as P5P, and 100 mg of pycnogenol at bedtime.

Seems you should be able to take more than 200 mg magnesium without causing diarrhea.  I take the NOW Foods mag. citrate and can take 400 (their recommendation) with no problem.  Of course, I'm chronically constipated due to anti-anxiety, anti-depressat meds. Fred

[slowandsteady]

I'm still taking magnesium and still having good results with it. Since I last posted I've been trying different forms. In addition to malate I've tried some of the chelated forms patented by Albion like Mg glycinate (like this one). I've only been able to take 200 mg Mg this way due to diarrhea.

It appears that taking l-arginine with magnesium might work well together to prevent loose stools (which you really don't want, since it throws the absorption of everything in the gut out of whack and depletes you of electrolytes). From this source:

In several people trying this offbeat technique, three grams of L-arginine (in compressed tablet form) per meal caused severe to extremely severe constipation while using magnesium supplementation that previously caused diarrhea. Serious constipation did not seem to occur with one gram of L-arginine per meal, although is could cause mild constipation. On the other hand, the literature says that too much L-arginine will cause diarrhea, not constipation. Who knows!

I found the same in a literature search as this writer did, that high doses of l-arginine cause diarrhea instead of constipation. Maybe things are different with magnesium in the mix.

I'll give that a test, as I'd like to go up to 400 mg of Mg glycinate. I think I'll try 500 mg of l-arginine, 100 mg of B6 as P5P, and 100 mg of pycnogenol at bedtime.

[George999]

NOTE that S&S is taking magnesium MALATE.  Malic Acid has its own health effects so it is really hard to know whether the benefit S&S is seeing is due to the Magnesium component or the Malic Acid component.  I am just beginning to transition off of Magnesium Citrate, which certainly hasn't had any effect for me over the years, over to Magnesium Malate.  I think it is a win win with both Magnesium and Malic Acid having potential health benefits.  Certainly I don't know of any great stand alone benefits from Citric Acid.  - George

[Farinthesouth]

Has anyone else given magnesium a try? I feel like I'm getting great results with a modest dose of 400 mg (inflammation is way down, plaques are not painful).

Hello: How long did you take the dose up to when you begun to feel the results?

Thanks

[Fred22]

Has anyone else given magnesium a try? I feel like I'm getting great results with a modest dose of 400 mg (inflammation is way down, plaques are not painful).

I've taken magnesium off and on for several years for symptoms of mitral valve prolapse.  I just started back on 600 mg mag. citrate.  Haven't noticed any improvment yet, but I haven't been on but maybe a couple of weeks  (I need to start keepimng a journal on this stuff).

Fred

[slowandsteady]

Has anyone else given magnesium a try? I feel like I'm getting great results with a modest dose of 400 mg (inflammation is way down, plaques are not painful).

[George999]

Fred,  That warning really has to do with people on dialysis.  I have been taking 12,000 IU Vitamin D3 and lots of Magnesium for a year now and have had no problems at all.  If you look at hypermagnesemia on Wikipedia you will see that it causes hypocalcemia.  Therefore if you are checking your serum Vitamin D levels AND your serum calcium levels regularly like you should be if you are taking more than 2000IU of Vitamin D3/day, you will be at no risk of hypermagnesemia.  If the drugs.com warning is to be taken seriously, how do you explain that many multivitamins contain both Vitamin D3 AND magnesium?  The answer has to do with the fact that the problem is NOT with how much you are taking, but rather with your blood levels of Vitamin D.  You get them too high (200ng/ml+) and it can screw up a lot of things, magnesium being only one of them.  That is the part that drugs.com does not explain.  They are only covering themselves in light of the fact that there is a certain hysteria in the medical community about imagined risks with Vitamin D.  The real message here is that IF YOU ARE TAKING VITAMIN D, GET YOUR BLOOD LEVELS OF VITAMIN D CHECKED REGULARLY until you know how your body is handling it.  UNLESS you have another underlying problem, you will always be safe with Vitamin D3 blood levels around 50ng/ml.  I would also NOT take more than around 600mg/day magnesium, since it puts additional stress on the kidneys to eliminate it.  IF magnesium is giving you the "runs", that is a sign you need to cut back on it.  It is also one of the reasons it is hard to overdose on magnesium.  It tends to let you know when you're getting too much.

[Fred22]

Don't take your magnesium and D3 at the same time.  According to Drugs.com interaction checker, this can increase your risk of hypermagnesemia.  The interaction was rated as "moderate" but especially risky if one should have any kidney problems.

[skunkworks]

In men, the second source was represented by alcoholic beverages (11.7 per cent), which were a lower source of magnesium in women (5.5 per cent).

Hmm that is strange to see there, as the vast majority of alcoholics are deficient in magnesium.

[slowandsteady]

For me, taking 400mg of magnesium glycinate at once is too much (intestinal upset). I'm working my way down to 200mg twice daily.

[newguy]

I'll be interested to see how this pans out. It's always good to explore new areas using the information we have about our condition. I was thinking about doing a post on magnesium on my peyronie's disease blog, but I think I'll wait until we know more. I have mentioned coq10 on it though, and have placed the recent study there.

[slowandsteady]

Why would you assume that "most people are appaently deficient in magnesium"?

I was using the word 'apparently' is a qualifier. It's something you hear bandied about in forums etc., and I hadn't looked into in depth to find hard data to back that up.

Blood tests are uninformative for plasma Mg since it's highly regulated by the body (same for calcium); a magnesium loading test seems to be the best method of testing (ref).

I was able to find this paper in the European Journal of Cardiovascular Prevention & Rehabilitation, Environmental magnesium deficiency as a cardiovascular risk factor:

Magnesium is abundant in nature and the major routes of intake are through food and water. Through changes in the treatment of foodstuffs and altered diets, as well as increased use of surface water with low magnesium content, magnesium deficiency is present in modern society. Magnesium deficiency causes cardiac arrhythmia and several studies suggest that a low level of magnesium in drinking water is a risk factor for myocardial infarction, particularly among men.

Aha, here's some good evidence in PMID 9513928, Dietary magnesium intake in a French adult population:

Magnesium intake was assessed using six 24-h dietary records during a 1-year period in 5,448 subjects (3,111 women 35-60 yrs old and 2,337 men 45-60 yrs old) in the SU.VI.MAX cohort, selected at a national level in France. The overall mean dietary intake was estimated at 369 +/- 106 mg/day in men and 280 +/- 84 mg/day in women. 77 per cent of women and 72 per cent of men had dietary magnesium intakes lower than recommended dietary allowances; 23 per cent of women and 18 per cent of men consumed less than 2/3 of these RDA. A strong positive correlation existed between energy and magnesium intake (r = 0.79; p < 10(-4)). Slight variations were observed according to socio-professional and educational levels and place of residence. Cereal products represented the main contribution in both men (21 per cent) and women (19.8 per cent). In men, the second source was represented by alcoholic beverages (11.7 per cent), which were a lower source of magnesium in women (5.5 per cent). Dairy products, vegetables, meat and poultry were the other main sources of dietary magnesium intake.

[Fred22]

. Most people are apparently deficient in magnesium, and it appears to be a challenge to get as much as recommended by diet alone.

Why would you assume that "most people are apparently deficient in magnesium"?

[skunkworks]

I've been taking magnesium baths for a few weeks now, and the one definite improvement has been no more firm flaccid penis. It now hangs like it used to before injury.

[slowandsteady]

Slowandsteady,
Keep us posted on your Magnesium efforts.
SSmithe

Going to 1200 mg/day of magnesium glycinate might be a bit much (gave me the runs). I'm backing off to 800 mg for now.

[SSmithe]

Slowandsteady,
Keep us posted on your Magnesium efforts.  I too am going to start taking it in smaller doses than you as my body doesn't want too any more pills...
SSmithe

[slowandsteady]

Over the next few weeks I'm going to increase my magnesium intake. To start with, I'm trying an attack dose of 1200 mg/day of elemental magnesium from magnesium glycinate, in three divided doses spread out through the day. I might back off to about 800 mg/day after 2-3 weeks.

The current US RDA for Mg is 400 mg, though I understand it will be raised to 500 mg. Most people are apparently deficient in magnesium, and it appears to be a challenge to get as much as recommended by diet alone.

Things that deplete magnesium include intensive endurance sports (any other marathoners out there?), coffee, and alcohol.

[slowandsteady]

Here's an article on an in vitro experiment looking at magnesium deficiency and fibrosis, Intralymphocyte magnesium decrease in patients with primary aldosteronism. Possible links with cardiac remodelling.

Consequently, to shed some light on the relationships between magnesium and tissue fibrosis we tested the in vitro effects of incubating human fibroblasts in low magnesium medium on mRNA collagen I and III gene expression by northern blot analysis. Both collagen I and III mRNA gene expression were increased by magnesium deprivation. The increase in collagen expression was similar for both collagen I and III. These data are in favour of a potential link between magnesium homeostasis and collagen synthesis. A physiopathologic mechanism linking magnesium homeostasis to the state of collagen turnover may have important clinical correlates such as cardiac remodelling in congestive heart failure.

And in the discussion:

These data are in favour of a potential link between magnesium and collagen synthesis. An obvious limitation of the present study relies on the in vitro model which is far from the physiological condition in that the cells underwent 24 hours of complete magnesium deprivation. Despite this limitation we believe that these preliminary data confirm the anecdotal reports of increased fibrosis in animal models of magnesium deficiency. Shivakumar et al. describes in rats that the aortas of rats on a magnesium-deficient diet demonstrate an increase in the rate of collagen synthesis [12]. The same authors reported a similar increase in collagen synthesis in the heart of rats on a magnesium-deficient diet [13].

We know that Peyronies Disease is characterized by pathological collagen I and III deposition.

Here's a rat study I find interesting, Effects of oral magnesium supplementation on chronic experimental cyclosporin A nephrotoxicity in rats. Apparently the immunosuppressant drug cyclosporin A induces Mg deficiency. The authors of this study wanted to find out if supplemental Mg can overcome this.

Hypomagnesemia is a common finding in cyclosporin A (CsA)-treated patients and has been proposed as both a cause and a consequence of CsA-induced nephrotoxicity. The present experiment was conducted to investigate the role of magnesium (Mg) depletion in the pathogenesis of chronic CsA nephrotoxicity and especially about interstitial fibrosis in rats. Rats kept on a low-sodium diet with different Mg content (normal Mg 0.05%, high Mg 0.6%) were randomly assigned to treatment with CsA 15 mg/kg/day (CsA) or olive oil 1 ml/kg/day vehicle (VH) s.c, for 28 days. Food ingestion in VH animals was adjusted to the intake of CsA animals. With normal Mg intake, CsA induced hypomagnesemia and the rats developed characteristic renal histological changes including striped interstitial fibrosis that resembles the human lesion in patients receiving CsA therapy. Magnesium supplementation raised plasma Mg level to normal and abolished CsA-induced renal fibrosis with mononuclear cell infiltration. CsA accelerated renal cortical mRNA expression of extracellular matrix proteins, plasminogen activator inhibitor type l , transforming growth factor-.BETA.1 and a macrophage chemoattractant, osteopontin, but magnesium supplementation suppressed mRNA expression. Systemic blood pressure was not affected either with CsA or different Mg intake, but CsA treatment increased renal vascular resistance in the normal Mg group while not in the high Mg group. CsA decreased glomerular filtration rate, while Mg supplementation prevented it. In conclusion, Mg depletion was implicated in the pathogenesis of chronic CsA-induced interstitial fibrosis and glomerular dysfunction. It was suggested that Mg replacement prevented CsA-induced renal interstitial fibrosis by attenuating mRNA expression of transforming growth factor-.BETA.1 and osteopontin. Furthermore, Mg replacement protected CsA-induced glomerular dysfunction possibly by ameliorating renal vasoconstrictor action of CsA.

So we see increased fibrosis, TGF-beta, and the macrophage chemoattractant osteopontin in these rats with chemically induced Mg deficiency. I think there's some evidence that TGF-beta can cause an increase in osteopontin too.

It's remarkable how many of the mechanisms involved in Peyronies Disease are also involved in Mg deficiency.

s&s

[George999]

My suggestion would be to first try to get a spectracell test to actually see what your nutrient levels really are before assuming that magnesium would be helpful.  - George

[slowandsteady]

The full text of an article in Nature on the biological role of magnesium is available. One of the roles of Mg is in apoptosis (cell death):

There is a strong relation between Mg and the immune system. We have reviewed different studies showing the role of Mg in different aspects of the immune response, both in animal models and in human systems. Mg involvement on inflammation, apoptosis, thymocyte gene expression and even in histological and cytological effects in animal models, as well as its relation with asthma, the immune system in athletes, aging processes and apoptosis in humans have been discussed.

One potential connection with Peyronies Disease is that Peyronies Disease tissue has accumulation of some cells that don't die when they should. Another potential connection is the disregulated immune response involved with Peyronies Disease (there are some links between Mg deficiency and autoimmune illnesses).

I've never tried the MgCl form of magnesium, but I think I will.

s&s

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