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slowandsteady

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MAGNESIUM related topics
« on: December 17, 2009, 07:11:17 PM »

The full text of an article in Nature on the biological role of magnesium is available. One of the roles of Mg is in apoptosis (cell death):
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There is a strong relation between Mg and the immune system. We have reviewed different studies showing the role of Mg in different aspects of the immune response, both in animal models and in human systems. Mg involvement on inflammation, apoptosis, thymocyte gene expression and even in histological and cytological effects in animal models, as well as its relation with asthma, the immune system in athletes, aging processes and apoptosis in humans have been discussed.

One potential connection with Peyronies Disease is that Peyronies Disease tissue has accumulation of some cells that don't die when they should. Another potential connection is the disregulated immune response involved with Peyronies Disease (there are some links between Mg deficiency and autoimmune illnesses).

I've never tried the MgCl form of magnesium, but I think I will.

s&s
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George999

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2009, 07:57:48 PM »

My suggestion would be to first try to get a spectracell test to actually see what your nutrient levels really are before assuming that magnesium would be helpful.  - George
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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2010, 01:11:45 PM »

Here's an article on an in vitro experiment looking at magnesium deficiency and fibrosis, Intralymphocyte magnesium decrease in patients with primary aldosteronism. Possible links with cardiac remodelling.

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Consequently, to shed some light on the relationships between magnesium and tissue fibrosis we tested the in vitro effects of incubating human fibroblasts in low magnesium medium on mRNA collagen I and III gene expression by northern blot analysis. Both collagen I and III mRNA gene expression were increased by magnesium deprivation. The increase in collagen expression was similar for both collagen I and III. These data are in favour of a potential link between magnesium homeostasis and collagen synthesis. A physiopathologic mechanism linking magnesium homeostasis to the state of collagen turnover may have important clinical correlates such as cardiac remodelling in congestive heart failure.

And in the discussion:
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These data are in favour of a potential link between magnesium and collagen synthesis. An obvious limitation of the present study relies on the in vitro model which is far from the physiological condition in that the cells underwent 24 hours of complete magnesium deprivation. Despite this limitation we believe that these preliminary data confirm the anecdotal reports of increased fibrosis in animal models of magnesium deficiency. Shivakumar et al. describes in rats that the aortas of rats on a magnesium-deficient diet demonstrate an increase in the rate of collagen synthesis [12]. The same authors reported a similar increase in collagen synthesis in the heart of rats on a magnesium-deficient diet [13].

We know that Peyronies Disease is characterized by pathological collagen I and III deposition.

Here's a rat study I find interesting, Effects of oral magnesium supplementation on chronic experimental cyclosporin A nephrotoxicity in rats. Apparently the immunosuppressant drug cyclosporin A induces Mg deficiency. The authors of this study wanted to find out if supplemental Mg can overcome this.

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Hypomagnesemia is a common finding in cyclosporin A (CsA)-treated patients and has been proposed as both a cause and a consequence of CsA-induced nephrotoxicity. The present experiment was conducted to investigate the role of magnesium (Mg) depletion in the pathogenesis of chronic CsA nephrotoxicity and especially about interstitial fibrosis in rats. Rats kept on a low-sodium diet with different Mg content (normal Mg 0.05%, high Mg 0.6%) were randomly assigned to treatment with CsA 15 mg/kg/day (CsA) or olive oil 1 ml/kg/day vehicle (VH) s.c, for 28 days. Food ingestion in VH animals was adjusted to the intake of CsA animals. With normal Mg intake, CsA induced hypomagnesemia and the rats developed characteristic renal histological changes including striped interstitial fibrosis that resembles the human lesion in patients receiving CsA therapy. Magnesium supplementation raised plasma Mg level to normal and abolished CsA-induced renal fibrosis with mononuclear cell infiltration. CsA accelerated renal cortical mRNA expression of extracellular matrix proteins, plasminogen activator inhibitor type l , transforming growth factor-.BETA.1 and a macrophage chemoattractant, osteopontin, but magnesium supplementation suppressed mRNA expression. Systemic blood pressure was not affected either with CsA or different Mg intake, but CsA treatment increased renal vascular resistance in the normal Mg group while not in the high Mg group. CsA decreased glomerular filtration rate, while Mg supplementation prevented it. In conclusion, Mg depletion was implicated in the pathogenesis of chronic CsA-induced interstitial fibrosis and glomerular dysfunction. It was suggested that Mg replacement prevented CsA-induced renal interstitial fibrosis by attenuating mRNA expression of transforming growth factor-.BETA.1 and osteopontin. Furthermore, Mg replacement protected CsA-induced glomerular dysfunction possibly by ameliorating renal vasoconstrictor action of CsA.

So we see increased fibrosis, TGF-beta, and the macrophage chemoattractant osteopontin in these rats with chemically induced Mg deficiency. I think there's some evidence that TGF-beta can cause an increase in osteopontin too.

It's remarkable how many of the mechanisms involved in Peyronies Disease are also involved in Mg deficiency.

s&s
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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2010, 05:32:19 PM »

Over the next few weeks I'm going to increase my magnesium intake. To start with, I'm trying an attack dose of 1200 mg/day of elemental magnesium from magnesium glycinate, in three divided doses spread out through the day. I might back off to about 800 mg/day after 2-3 weeks.

The current US RDA for Mg is 400 mg, though I understand it will be raised to 500 mg. Most people are apparently deficient in magnesium, and it appears to be a challenge to get as much as recommended by diet alone.

Things that deplete magnesium include intensive endurance sports (any other marathoners out there?), coffee, and alcohol.

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SSmithe

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2010, 07:52:33 PM »

Slowandsteady,
Keep us posted on your Magnesium efforts.  I too am going to start taking it in smaller doses than you as my body doesn't want too any more pills...
SSmithe
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32 years old.  Peyronies since 22. Stabilized peyronies plaque.  ED.  Trying to stay positive.

slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2010, 02:36:30 PM »

Slowandsteady,
Keep us posted on your Magnesium efforts.
SSmithe

Going to 1200 mg/day of magnesium glycinate might be a bit much (gave me the runs). I'm backing off to 800 mg for now.
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skunkworks

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2010, 10:43:44 AM »

I've been taking magnesium baths for a few weeks now, and the one definite improvement has been no more firm flaccid penis. It now hangs like it used to before injury.

Fred22

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2010, 02:00:13 PM »

. Most people are apparently deficient in magnesium, and it appears to be a challenge to get as much as recommended by diet alone.

Why would you assume that "most people are apparently deficient in magnesium"?
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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2010, 07:36:19 PM »

Why would you assume that "most people are appaently deficient in magnesium"?
I was using the word 'apparently' is a qualifier. It's something you hear bandied about in forums etc., and I hadn't looked into in depth to find hard data to back that up.

Blood tests are uninformative for plasma Mg since it's highly regulated by the body (same for calcium); a magnesium loading test seems to be the best method of testing (ref).

I was able to find this paper in the European Journal of Cardiovascular Prevention & Rehabilitation, Environmental magnesium deficiency as a cardiovascular risk factor:
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Magnesium is abundant in nature and the major routes of intake are through food and water. Through changes in the treatment of foodstuffs and altered diets, as well as increased use of surface water with low magnesium content, magnesium deficiency is present in modern society. Magnesium deficiency causes cardiac arrhythmia and several studies suggest that a low level of magnesium in drinking water is a risk factor for myocardial infarction, particularly among men.

Aha, here's some good evidence in PMID 9513928, Dietary magnesium intake in a French adult population:
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Magnesium intake was assessed using six 24-h dietary records during a 1-year period in 5,448 subjects (3,111 women 35-60 yrs old and 2,337 men 45-60 yrs old) in the SU.VI.MAX cohort, selected at a national level in France. The overall mean dietary intake was estimated at 369 +/- 106 mg/day in men and 280 +/- 84 mg/day in women. 77 per cent of women and 72 per cent of men had dietary magnesium intakes lower than recommended dietary allowances; 23 per cent of women and 18 per cent of men consumed less than 2/3 of these RDA. A strong positive correlation existed between energy and magnesium intake (r = 0.79; p < 10(-4)). Slight variations were observed according to socio-professional and educational levels and place of residence. Cereal products represented the main contribution in both men (21 per cent) and women (19.8 per cent). In men, the second source was represented by alcoholic beverages (11.7 per cent), which were a lower source of magnesium in women (5.5 per cent). Dairy products, vegetables, meat and poultry were the other main sources of dietary magnesium intake.
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newguy

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2010, 06:05:35 AM »

I'll be interested to see how this pans out. It's always good to explore new areas using the information we have about our condition. I was thinking about doing a post on magnesium on my peyronie's disease blog, but I think I'll wait until we know more. I have mentioned coq10 on it though, and have placed the recent study there.
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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2010, 01:57:21 PM »

For me, taking 400mg of magnesium glycinate at once is too much (intestinal upset). I'm working my way down to 200mg twice daily.
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skunkworks

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2010, 05:58:20 AM »

In men, the second source was represented by alcoholic beverages (11.7 per cent), which were a lower source of magnesium in women (5.5 per cent).

Hmm that is strange to see there, as the vast majority of alcoholics are deficient in magnesium.

Fred22

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2010, 02:43:01 PM »

Don't take your magnesium and D3 at the same time.  According to Drugs.com interaction checker, this can increase your risk of hypermagnesemia.  The interaction was rated as "moderate" but especially risky if one should have any kidney problems.
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George999

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2010, 05:14:25 PM »

Fred,  That warning really has to do with people on dialysis.  I have been taking 12,000 IU Vitamin D3 and lots of Magnesium for a year now and have had no problems at all.  If you look at hypermagnesemia on Wikipedia you will see that it causes hypocalcemia.  Therefore if you are checking your serum Vitamin D levels AND your serum calcium levels regularly like you should be if you are taking more than 2000IU of Vitamin D3/day, you will be at no risk of hypermagnesemia.  If the drugs.com warning is to be taken seriously, how do you explain that many multivitamins contain both Vitamin D3 AND magnesium?  The answer has to do with the fact that the problem is NOT with how much you are taking, but rather with your blood levels of Vitamin D.  You get them too high (200ng/ml+) and it can screw up a lot of things, magnesium being only one of them.  That is the part that drugs.com does not explain.  They are only covering themselves in light of the fact that there is a certain hysteria in the medical community about imagined risks with Vitamin D.  The real message here is that IF YOU ARE TAKING VITAMIN D, GET YOUR BLOOD LEVELS OF VITAMIN D CHECKED REGULARLY until you know how your body is handling it.  UNLESS you have another underlying problem, you will always be safe with Vitamin D3 blood levels around 50ng/ml.  I would also NOT take more than around 600mg/day magnesium, since it puts additional stress on the kidneys to eliminate it.  IF magnesium is giving you the "runs", that is a sign you need to cut back on it.  It is also one of the reasons it is hard to overdose on magnesium.  It tends to let you know when you're getting too much.
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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2010, 04:15:59 PM »

Has anyone else given magnesium a try? I feel like I'm getting great results with a modest dose of 400 mg (inflammation is way down, plaques are not painful).
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Fred22

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2010, 12:11:40 PM »

Has anyone else given magnesium a try? I feel like I'm getting great results with a modest dose of 400 mg (inflammation is way down, plaques are not painful).

I've taken magnesium off and on for several years for symptoms of mitral valve prolapse.  I just started back on 600 mg mag. citrate.  Haven't noticed any improvment yet, but I haven't been on but maybe a couple of weeks  (I need to start keepimng a journal on this stuff).

Fred
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Farinthesouth

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2010, 12:44:59 PM »




Has anyone else given magnesium a try? I feel like I'm getting great results with a modest dose of 400 mg (inflammation is way down, plaques are not painful).

Hello: How long did you take the dose up to when you begun to feel the results?

Thanks
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George999

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2010, 05:43:23 PM »

NOTE that S&S is taking magnesium MALATE.  Malic Acid has its own health effects so it is really hard to know whether the benefit S&S is seeing is due to the Magnesium component or the Malic Acid component.  I am just beginning to transition off of Magnesium Citrate, which certainly hasn't had any effect for me over the years, over to Magnesium Malate.  I think it is a win win with both Magnesium and Malic Acid having potential health benefits.  Certainly I don't know of any great stand alone benefits from Citric Acid.  - George
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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2010, 04:37:17 PM »

I'm still taking magnesium and still having good results with it. Since I last posted I've been trying different forms. In addition to malate I've tried some of the chelated forms patented by Albion like Mg glycinate (like this one). I've only been able to take 200 mg Mg this way due to diarrhea.

It appears that taking l-arginine with magnesium might work well together to prevent loose stools (which you really don't want, since it throws the absorption of everything in the gut out of whack and depletes you of electrolytes). From this source:

Quote
In several people trying this offbeat technique, three grams of L-arginine (in compressed tablet form) per meal caused severe to extremely severe constipation while using magnesium supplementation that previously caused diarrhea. Serious constipation did not seem to occur with one gram of L-arginine per meal, although is could cause mild constipation. On the other hand, the literature says that too much L-arginine will cause diarrhea, not constipation. Who knows!

I found the same in a literature search as this writer did, that high doses of l-arginine cause diarrhea instead of constipation. Maybe things are different with magnesium in the mix.

I'll give that a test, as I'd like to go up to 400 mg of Mg glycinate. I think I'll try 500 mg of l-arginine, 100 mg of B6 as P5P, and 100 mg of pycnogenol at bedtime.
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Fred22

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2010, 02:46:11 PM »

I'm still taking magnesium and still having good results with it. Since I last posted I've been trying different forms. In addition to malate I've tried some of the chelated forms patented by Albion like Mg glycinate (like this one). I've only been able to take 200 mg Mg this way due to diarrhea.

It appears that taking l-arginine with magnesium might work well together to prevent loose stools (which you really don't want, since it throws the absorption of everything in the gut out of whack and depletes you of electrolytes). From this source:

Quote
In several people trying this offbeat technique, three grams of L-arginine (in compressed tablet form) per meal caused severe to extremely severe constipation while using magnesium supplementation that previously caused diarrhea. Serious constipation did not seem to occur with one gram of L-arginine per meal, although is could cause mild constipation. On the other hand, the literature says that too much L-arginine will cause diarrhea, not constipation. Who knows!

I found the same in a literature search as this writer did, that high doses of l-arginine cause diarrhea instead of constipation. Maybe things are different with magnesium in the mix.

I'll give that a test, as I'd like to go up to 400 mg of Mg glycinate. I think I'll try 500 mg of l-arginine, 100 mg of B6 as P5P, and 100 mg of pycnogenol at bedtime.

Seems you should be able to take more than 200 mg magnesium without causing diarrhea.  I take the NOW Foods mag. citrate and can take 400 (their recommendation) with no problem.  Of course, I'm chronically constipated due to anti-anxiety, anti-depressat meds. Fred
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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2010, 02:56:09 PM »

Seems you should be able to take more than 200 mg magnesium without causing diarrhea.  I take the NOW Foods mag. citrate and can take 400 (their recommendation) with no problem.  Of course, I'm chronically constipated due to anti-anxiety, anti-depressat meds. Fred
I don't get full blown diarrhea, just loose stools. It seems to throw off my electrolyte balance a bit, making distance runs more difficult.

The arginine trick seems to be working so far. I took 400 mg mag glycinate with 1 g arginine last night, and so far so good. I have a 12 mile run tomorrow.
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newguy

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2010, 07:15:38 PM »

Thanks for keeping us informed s&s. How is your peyronie's in general nowadays? Quite stable?
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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2010, 01:22:52 PM »

Things are mostly going very well, no worsening and I'm not in pain. I feel as though I'm just starting with magnesium, and that it might hold a lot of potential. It takes a while apparently to tank up if you're deficient. I still take NAC, ALCAR, and curcumin (and vitamin D of course).
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newguy

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2010, 02:10:46 PM »

Here an interesting article about magnesium raising testosterone levels: http://www.ergo-log.com/magnesiumtestosterone.html
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newguy

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2010, 10:26:56 PM »

Have you settled on a type of magnesium to use? I'm going to put an order in an iherb soon for a few supplements, and am thinking of adding magnesium. I would prefer one that doesn't give me bad side effects such as a bad stomach and so on. I don't mind if there are short term side effects to a supplement/medication, as long as it's not something I always have to deal with. I'm going to start on Q10 soon, since the positive study came out, and maybe will give magnesium a try too. I don't appear to be having much pain of late, which is positive, but I want to keep ploughing ahead with what are seen to be potentially useful treatments.
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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2010, 05:45:17 PM »

I seem to get some amount of intestinal upset no matter which form of oral Mg I try. I'm actually experimenting with topical magnesium in the form of magnesium "oil" (which is MgCl2 brine) and magnesium sulfate cream.
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newguy

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2010, 08:22:26 PM »

I seem to get some amount of intestinal upset no matter which form of oral Mg I try. I'm actually experimenting with topical magnesium in the form of magnesium "oil" (which is MgCl2 brine) and magnesium sulfate cream.

That's a shame. Maybe it depends on the individual. I'm definitely interested in giving some form of magnesium a test run. Have you tried Magnesium Taurate?

I just noticed on the heart scan blog, there is mention of magnesium in the latest post;

"I generally advise supplementation with the well-absorbed forms, magnesium glycinate (400 mg twice per day) or magnesium malate (1200 mg twice per day). Because they are well-absorbed, they are least likely to lead to diarrhea (as magnesium oxide commonly does)."

You're already tried both of those of course, but as it was on toic I thought I'd include it here.

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Fred22

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2010, 12:31:17 PM »

I seem to get some amount of intestinal upset no matter which form of oral Mg I try. I'm actually experimenting with topical magnesium in the form of magnesium "oil" (which is MgCl2 brine) and magnesium sulfate cream.

That's a shame. Maybe it depends on the individual. I'm definitely interested in giving some form of magnesium a test run. Have you tried Magnesium Taurate?

I just noticed on the heart scan blog, there is mention of magnesium in the latest post;

"I generally advise supplementation with the well-absorbed forms, magnesium glycinate (400 mg twice per day) or magnesium malate (1200 mg twice per day). Because they are well-absorbed, they are least likely to lead to diarrhea (as magnesium oxide commonly does)."

You're already tried both of those of course, but as it was on toic I thought I'd include it here.



Magnesium citrate is also well absorbed according Dr. Andrew Weil.  I take the citrate, but it can cause some GI distress also.
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angelinadiaz

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2010, 03:15:55 AM »

Hey i have heard that cherries,berries contain lots of magnesium and potassium which are beneficial for peyronies disease.
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newguy

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2010, 12:41:53 PM »

I eventually went with Magnesium Malate. Once again I'll make this a five to six month trial and will evaluate the situation at that time. Many peope have magnesium deficiency I believe, so I see more up side than down. Once again, I'm not really noticing any side effects of note.
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MikeSmith

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Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2010, 04:25:11 PM »

I can't believe I just read this.  I never came across this before...Considering the level of calcium I have in the tunica (without injury) I think this might be part of it...not to mention I have no calcitonin production due to thyroid disorder (and synthroid does not replace calcitonin)... finally this is starting to make sense for my case (30 yr old / no injury):

Magnesium is needed for calcium absorption. Without enough magnesium, calcium can collect in the soft tissues and cause one type of arthritis. Not only does calcium collect in the soft tissues of arthritics, it is poorly, if at all, absorbed into their blood and bones. But taking more calcium is not the answer; it only amplifies the problem. In fact, excessive calcium intake and insufficient magnesium can contribute to both of these diseases. Magnesium taken in proper dosages can solve the problem of calcium deficiency.

When calcium is elevated in the blood it stimulates the secretion of a hormone called calcitonin and suppresses the secretion of the parathyroid hormone (PTH). These hormones regulate the levels of calcium in our bones and soft tissues and are, therefore, directly related to both osteoporosis and arthritis. PTH draws calcium out of the bones and deposits it in the soft tissues, while calcitonin increases calcium in our bones and keeps it from being absorbed in our soft tissues. Sufficient amounts of magnesium determine this delicate and important balance.

Because magnesium suppresses PTH and stimulates calcitonin it helps put calcium into our bones, preventing osteoporosis, and helps remove it from our soft tissues eliminating some forms of arthritis. A magnesium deficiency will prevent this chemical action from taking place in our bodies, and no amount of calcium can correct it. While magnesium helps our body absorb and retain calcium, too much calcium prevents magnesium from being absorbed. So taking large amounts of calcium without adequate magnesium may either create malabsorption or a magnesium deficiency. Whichever occurs, only magnesium can break the cycle.
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Iceman

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2010, 02:06:05 AM »

so what does this mean???
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Tim468

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2010, 10:45:13 AM »

To me it means this: If you have a problem (and most of us do) than perhaps we should check out serum Ca and Mg levels and also consider a densitometry study (requires an MD order) to look at bone stores of calcium (serum levels may be normal but total body calcium might be down).

If we are out of whack, we might want to consider supplementing with Mg and or Ca, but not with just Ca alone.

Tim
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52, Peyronies Disease for 30 years, upward curve and some new lesions.

MikeSmith

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2010, 01:40:24 PM »

yeah thats what i meant ... i have been desperately searching for WHY scar tissue in the tunica would calcify for 10 months... finally, i came across an article that seemed to make sense in my case (regarding calcitonin) and in the case of a lot of people (magnesium might be low).  so, that was the point.

So yeah - I think people with calcified plaques (particularly those that calcified quickly like mine) should get magnesium & calcium checked in their blood... i'm not sure what the lab order is specifically for this.  i think it's a "free calcium" lab order - not calcium ion... i will find out soon.   (also btw if you crave chocolate, that supposedly means you are low in magnesium...or are about to have your period...)

in general, i think taking a magnesium supplement would be wise as well.  

in my own case, i am going to get my calcitonin level checked - but thats due to existing thyroid problems.  id be surprised if other guys here had an issue with that.

To me it means this: If you have a problem (and most of us do) than perhaps we should check out serum Ca and Mg levels and also consider a densitometry study (requires an MD order) to look at bone stores of calcium (serum levels may be normal but total body calcium might be down).

If we are out of whack, we might want to consider supplementing with Mg and or Ca, but not with just Ca alone.

Tim
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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2010, 03:00:19 PM »

I have a thread on magnesium. There are a lot of parallels with magnesium deficiency and what happens in Peyronie's tissue at the cellular level.

I also cannot recommend vitamin K2 (and of course vitamin D) enough for reversal of soft tissue calcification.
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MikeSmith0

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2010, 07:02:51 AM »

I have a thread on magnesium. There are a lot of parallels with magnesium deficiency and what happens in Peyronie's tissue at the cellular level.

I also cannot recommend vitamin K2 (and of course vitamin D) enough for reversal of soft tissue calcification.

Oh i actually did a search before I posted & didn't see it...glad we concur though.  I looked into the vit K you recommended.  Would you choose the drops over the pills?  I was thinking - just one thing less to go through the digestive system (with pentox, arganine, pyncogenol, viagra, vit E, vit D, etc....)  my stomach is taking a beating.
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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2010, 04:07:39 PM »

I was thinking - just one thing less to go through the digestive system (with pentox, arganine, pyncogenol, viagra, vit E, vit D, etc....)  my stomach is taking a beating.
I like the Thorne drops for K2-MK4 (these are taken orally; I use 2 drops/day). I also take a weekly gelcap of K2-MK7.
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crashbandit

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2010, 10:59:43 PM »

I just got a bottle of megnesium malate 150mg tabs. I take 3 of these a day. Do you think I may need to supplement calcium too? I really hope not... Can too much magnesium deplete the calcium?
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MikeSmith

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2010, 06:05:57 PM »

I just got a bottle of megnesium malate 150mg tabs. I take 3 of these a day. Do you think I may need to supplement calcium too? I really hope not... Can too much magnesium deplete the calcium?

im not sure... vit D and magnesium, calcium, phospherous all interact... but i dont really know how.

i think i got overly excited about mg.   my levels are normal.  and, a doctor told me people with hypercalcemia (high calclium) do not have higher rates of Peyronies Disease... but i dont think there's been a study on this per se.  he reiterated that the problem is with collagen, not calcium - until after the collagen creates a problem.  it's really a collagen disorder first. 
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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2010, 06:39:20 PM »

I just got a bottle of megnesium malate 150mg tabs. I take 3 of these a day. Do you think I may need to supplement calcium too? I really hope not... Can too much magnesium deplete the calcium?

If your vitamin D level has been normalized by supplementation and you eat leafy greens and maybe occasional dairy, I don't think you need to take any additional calcium at all. Magnesium doesn't deplete calcium, only the other way around.
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crashbandit

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2010, 01:13:50 AM »

If your vitamin D level has been normalized by supplementation and you eat leafy greens and maybe occasional dairy, I don't think you need to take any additional calcium at all. Magnesium doesn't deplete calcium, only the other way around.

Vitamin D is linked to magnesium? What do you mean vitamin D has to be normalized?
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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2010, 10:02:22 AM »

I mean that most people are vitamin D deficient, and need to get their levels up to about 50 ng/ml (and the argument can be made the those with Peyronies Disease should go higher, to around 80  ng/ml). This advice is good for anyone, as vitamin D is perhaps the single most important supplement you can take. I would recommend doing some reading on grassroots health or the vitamin D council sites. The best form of D is D3 in an oil filled gelcap, which a lot of manufacturers make.
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MikeSmith0

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2010, 11:56:53 AM »

i think i might have a problem absorbing vitamin D.  my levels are actually below normal and only went up like 1 ng/ml in the 1 month that i supplemented w/ 1000 IU (or mg?) D3 pills from Whole Foods.  Also, I spent some time in the sun...quite a bit actually.  Does the body not store vit D that well?  I thought it was fat soluable and so then it kinda stayed around.
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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2010, 08:41:57 PM »

I needed 5000 IU to get to 50 ng/ml. 1000 IU sounds like it's too little for you.

My blood levels of D went down to the mid twenties over the summer when I took a break, thinking that the sun I got was going to make up the difference. I'm back at 5000 IU now.
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crashbandit

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2010, 09:22:09 PM »

I needed 5000 IU to get to 50 ng/ml. 1000 IU sounds like it's too little for you.

My blood levels of D went down to the mid twenties over the summer when I took a break, thinking that the sun I got was going to make up the difference. I'm back at 5000 IU now.

Do you notice any difference in overall well-being during the dip and elevation of your Vit D levels? 
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BSSS

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #45 on: October 28, 2010, 01:11:15 PM »

FWIW,

I've always suspected calcium (and some inflammatory response) related problems being involved in my peyronie's.

At about the same time I acquired peyronie's I also had my first bout with kidney stones.  They were the calcium based type.  I also noticed bone spurs developing in places I hadn't seen them before; my kneecaps for instance have protrusions now that they didn't have before.  All this stuff happened at about the same time to me and when I mention it to my primary I might as well be speaking Greek.

Anyone know what causes magnesium deficiency?

Thanks,
BSSS

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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2010, 06:47:00 PM »

Do you notice any difference in overall well-being during the dip and elevation of your Vit D levels? 
To be honest it's really hard to say. Vitamin D usage might show up in fewer flu episodes.
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slowandsteady

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2010, 07:03:00 PM »

I've been able to take 400 mg of magnesium at night. Believe it or not, it's actually the citrate form (Source Naturals magnesium serene). I add hot water (it fizzes) and drink it as a tea at night before bed.

The secret is to take it with arginine. Fortunately, I'm taking arginine with pycnogenol at night anyway for the vasolidation benefits.

Arginine can deplete lysine, so I take 1 g arginine with 500 mg lysine. I don't know if that ratio is optimal; if anyone knows some better basis for determining the optimal ration, please let us know.
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newguy

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Re: Magnesium
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2010, 03:46:28 AM »

s&s - Thanks for the update - I'm still on Magnesium Malate. My regimen is very simple at the moment. It's

Pentox - 2 or 3 times a day
COQ10 300mg - 2 times a day
Magnesium Malate - 1 Time daily

In additional I occasionally take pycnogenol, resveratrol and l-arginine, as these seem to aid erection quality. However the quality of erections has been very good for the past two months or so, even though I'd eased up on mechanical treatments for a while (back doing them now though).

I don't experience many side effects from the magnesium, aside from soft stools.
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mateo

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Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2010, 11:40:55 PM »

I also noticed bone spurs developing in places I hadn't seen them before; my kneecaps for instance have protrusions now that they didn't have before.  All this stuff happened at about the same time to me and when I mention it to my primary I might as well be speaking Greek.

Anyone know what causes magnesium deficiency?

Although I can't post a link, you can Google for "Magnesium Recycling Barriers". The first result is a good summary of various causes of magnesium deficiency.

To supplement magnesium, use magnesium citrate or magnesium aspartate. Your intestines absorb these forms much more readily. (Citrate is my personal preference.) You can also take them on an empty stomach, which further improves assimilation. When taking magnesium, titrate to bowel movement. That means start with a low dose, and increase gradually until you feel the need to have to a BM. However, if you take magnesium carbonate (as opposed to citrate or aspartate) on an empty stomach, you'll get a false-positive way too soon! Taken properly, your dose tolerance for magnesium citrate will increase within a few days.

Magnesium is arguably the most important mineral in your diet. Titrating to BM is an effective way to gauge how much magnesium your body is able to use at any particular time. There is a similar method for vitamin C.

It's best if you don't take it at the same time as calcium or vitamin D. Ideally, one takes magnesium apart from calcium. Vitamin D is best absorbed when taken with some kind of fat (in a meal). Although vitamin D is necessary for proper calcium assimilation, your body can store vitamin D for later use.

If you supplement with calcium, use either the citrate or aspartate form, and also supplement with magnesium. The higher the ratio of dietary calcium to dietary magnesium, the more serious and numerous the symptoms.

Lead and other heavy metals in your body tissue can not only block mineral absorption, but displace minerals. For example, some of your dietary calcium should form calcium phosphate for assimilation into bone tissue. But heavy metals lodged in body tissue may displace some of that calcium, so instead it winds up in places where it does damage: soft tissue (including scar tissue, and even the brain).

Resolving this situation requires two things: appropriate mineral intake and chelation therapy. Although DMSA is one of the most effective chelation agents, EDTA is also extremely valuable. DMSA is better at removing mercury; but EDTA is safer, it can also remove displaced calcium. I've used both DMSA and EDTA many times. The first few times I used them, I could literally feel them pulling metals and/or minerals out of my penile scar tissue.

If you have heavy metals in your scar tissue, then this is one source of the chronic inflammation. The metals also cause free radicals to form, which imposes an additional burden on the immune system. This is one way in which you can actually remove one of the sources of your chronic inflammation, while freeing more of your body's resources to heal elsewhere.
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