Peyronies Society Forums

Erectile Dysfunction Forum - for all men with ED => VED's, Rings, Devices to Treat Erectile Dysfunction => Topic started by: Christopher1 on May 18, 2018, 03:32:30 PM

Title: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on May 18, 2018, 03:32:30 PM
So I decided to get creative with a device I have.

As some of you know, I have successfully used shockwave therapy to improve my ED a bit - but it was very expensive. I feel that - ideally - shockwaves should be received weekly (once per week; NOT more) for the rest of your life.

Why? Because this vibrating impulse releases histamine and brings in activated platelets that attract stem cells. Think of it like exercise for the penis. More often would probably me harmful. Less often would be less effective.

So what do I use? I use a Jeanie Rub Variable Speed Massager. Works tremendously well. I did not link it here, because it is against the rules.

Now what you do is you use this massager gently on your penis - as you lie your penis towards your navel while in the supine position. Just use it to comfort. It should not hurt at all, but no more than 5 minutes. Afterwards, your penis should feel warm and maybe even tingly. This is a good thing. (NOTE: pain is NOT a good thing. Stop immediately if you feel pain.)

For practice, try using the device on your leg first. Hold the device over your leg until your leg becomes warm and itchy. This is sort of the sensation you are going for (release of histamines and activation of platelets for stem cell recruitment).

Good luck and PM me for questions (or preferably post them here).

Dr. C
Title: Re: NEW MODALITY: Erectile Dysfunction and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on May 18, 2018, 04:53:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On77uZkIcrQ

It does not look powerful, but it is. Do NOT use at full strength.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: TonySa on May 19, 2018, 12:31:24 AM
That massager is huge, you've used it on your penis?
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: NeoV on May 19, 2018, 04:51:19 AM
They have a lot of vibrating messages here in Japan, I'll try one!
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on May 21, 2018, 09:48:01 PM
Yes - I use it on the penis.

I recommend that brand, because it is ridiculously powerful. It has enough force to generate histamine and bring in platelets.

Going to your local Sharper Image or Wal-Mart and picking up a cheap massager will not do.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: TonySa on May 21, 2018, 10:10:44 PM
What setting, for how long and how frequently do you use?
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: WhatNext81 on May 21, 2018, 11:56:39 PM
I recall reading someone claiming they used a sonicare toothbrush in a similar manner. They claimed that in conjunction with castor oil broke, it broke up the plaque. I have a really powerful one, but it's for my teeth. Obviously, you're using the opposite end, the base, but one could probably wrap it with plastic wrap and use whatever oil is thought to be most effective. I think the toothbrushs like that are only $40? Just a thought.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Tony52 on May 22, 2018, 12:59:40 AM
Christopher1 - Do you apply heat before and/or after using the Jeanie Rub?  Also would obtaining an erection while using it hinder its effectiveness in any way?  Thanks
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: pey ron on May 22, 2018, 02:18:03 AM
Aren't histamines bad? I've been taking large (4x) doses of allegra because i was under that impression...
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on May 22, 2018, 06:35:25 PM
"What setting, for how long and how frequently do you use?"

Moderate intensity. 5 minutes or so (or until it starts to itch [histamine reaction]). Once per week.

It is basically shockwave therapy from the comfort of your home.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on May 22, 2018, 06:39:02 PM
"I recall reading someone claiming they used a sonicare toothbrush in a similar manner. They claimed that in conjunction with castor oil broke, it broke up the plaque. I have a really powerful one, but it's for my teeth. Obviously, you're using the opposite end, the base, but one could probably wrap it with plastic wrap and use whatever oil is thought to be most effective. I think the toothbrushs like that are only $40? Just a thought."

The amplitude and force of the toothbrush would not be sufficient.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on May 22, 2018, 06:40:52 PM
"Christopher1 - Do you apply heat before and/or after using the Jeanie Rub?  Also would obtaining an erection while using it hinder its effectiveness in any way?  Thanks"

I do not apply heat, but it couldn't hurt. Heat brings in fresh arterial blood.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on May 22, 2018, 06:42:53 PM
"Aren't histamines bad? I've been taking large (4x) doses of allegra because i was under that impression..."

Depends on what you are referring to. Local histamine just leads to some mild vasodilation. Systemic histamine release can cause hypotension and fainting.

In this case, the histamine is a good thing.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Tony52 on May 22, 2018, 09:53:55 PM
Thanks, Christopher1.  Tony52
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Paolo on May 23, 2018, 03:13:47 AM
And magnesium chloride oil (spray) would mitigate histamine response  :)
Paul.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on May 23, 2018, 07:29:00 PM
.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: TheTollundMan on May 23, 2018, 11:45:26 PM
Huh, interesting.

I've noticed a couple of other people on message boards claiming to have "cured" their peyronie's with an electric toothbrush.
It would be wild to see an actual study done on that. Just imagine if it worked?
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Gabriel on May 24, 2018, 08:04:54 AM
Well, actually I must confess that I tried... And it did pretty nothing, except a little pain reduction for a few hours, and, according to my uro to whom I talked to later, may have done more harm than good :s
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: pey ron on May 24, 2018, 11:17:26 PM
Quote from: Christopher1 on May 22, 2018, 06:42:53 PM
In this case, the histamine is a good thing.

I thought they would cause inflammation, no?
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on May 25, 2018, 05:47:20 PM
"Well, actually I must confess that I tried... And it did pretty nothing, except a little pain reduction for a few hours, and, according to my uro to whom I talked to later, may have done more harm than good :s"

With a toothbrush? I never recommended a toothbrush. It is kind of like Gainswave, basically.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on May 25, 2018, 05:47:53 PM
https://gainswave.com/peyronies-disease-treatment/
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on May 25, 2018, 05:49:05 PM
"I thought they would cause inflammation, no?"

Vasodilation. Histamine and nitric oxide are both paracrine vasodilators.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Health3man on May 28, 2018, 11:22:31 PM
I tried the Sonic Toothbrush technique last year during fall and winter times, and it made my peyronies worst by increasing my curve to the left more by a few degrees.

Now my result is because I did push it too hard on my plaque with the device each session I did and did nothing else after each session i.e. no traction, no VED, no massage, etc.

So now I'm implementing the Sonic Toothbrush technique as part of my routine with traction and massages, but I'm only using it to lightly massage my plaque in a testing attempt to see if it really does help to soften or break down collagen.

For example I also tested it recently on a bruise on my nose, and it did help reduce the size a bit. Plus if it caused my plaque to worsen then it must had an effect on it in some way that causes it to tear, which I presume now and have been testing is that the Sonic Toothbrush technique simply needs to be managed better in application pressure and include massage with traction to possibly may it work for my benefit.

This testing is mostly speculation, so please do not take this as beneficial fact or evidence to prove Sonic Toothbrush works to diminish Peyronies plaque.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: WhatNext81 on May 29, 2018, 12:45:24 PM
Christopher1-You've had results with this?
Any reason to believe that for $200 that this is more effective than VED?
I don't own a VED so comparing the two makes sense especially since they're around the same price.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on May 30, 2018, 09:21:09 PM
If you have to choose between the VED and the massager, I recommend the VED.

It has far more evidence behind it. It will not, however, do much as far as histamine/platelets. I think there is some evidence the VED clears out TGF-beta. But who knows. The idea, I believe, is that you are forcing rich blood into the more distal, smaller capillaries. (A good thing.)

Traction caused more scar pain for me, so I stopped it. I like the VED though.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on May 30, 2018, 09:23:25 PM
Again, I do not recommend the toothbrush.

For instance, use the toothbrush on your thigh (quadriceps femoris) for 3-5 minutes. Now use the massager I recommend on the same area.

Trust me. With the toothbrush, you will feel nothing. The massager will make your thigh itchy (histamine) and pink/red (oxygenated blood).
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: blackdiamond on June 02, 2018, 07:47:46 AM
RS
I'm about to start my 2nd round of shock wave next week. Twice a week for 3 weeks.............
It is electrical,sound, or some kind of wave that is applied with a sort of hand wand, kind of like a microphone.........
Its applied to one side as I was told it goes thru the penis to the other side.........
For me, all I hear is a bunch of clicking with no pain at all.........Some people say it feels like a bee sting but I don't feel that.......
Again for me , no numbing necessary at all.......In fact I don't think they even consider it......
   So far after 6 sessions then a 3 week break I THINK I am seeing some improvement but certainly not earth shattering.....
Was told most folks start to feel something during the break.......That's my story..........
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on June 02, 2018, 09:28:22 PM
Christopher, you have received the shockwave therapy and you think this massager gave you the exact same effect? What improvement did you see pre-use and post-use. I never imagined shockwave therapy was essentially a giant, powerful vibrator, I thought they used soundwaves. Did they give you numbing cream when you went for shockwave therapy?

Yes - I received shockwaves. It gave me better erections.

Yes - shockwaves are technically better (but far more expensive i.e. not worth it). Yes - they gave me numbing cream but I did not need it.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on June 02, 2018, 09:29:44 PM
Shockwaves are indeed not earth-shattering. I think you need to get them indefinitely once per week (just my opinion).

Hence, my recommendation for this extremely powerful massager.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Brentor on September 30, 2018, 06:09:42 PM
I bought the Jeanie Rub massager off eBay and followed your instructions.  I saw some results the following 4 days.  I'm just starting the process, thank you
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on October 06, 2018, 12:18:10 AM
Very cool. Glad to hear it.

Consistency is key.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: JS1991 on October 09, 2018, 02:59:59 AM
Christopher, I have found an ultrasound shockwave machine that is actually cheaper than the device you described. I can't link it, but do you think that your device, this massager, truly offers the same release of histamines that ultrasound does? My main goal, other than opening up old capillaries, is recruitment of stem cells.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Hawk on October 09, 2018, 08:10:51 AM
Quote from: JS1991 on October 09, 2018, 02:59:59 AM
Christopher, I have found an ultrasound shockwave machine that is actually cheaper than the device you described. I can't link it,

Just curious, Why can't you link it?
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: pey ron on October 10, 2018, 12:47:01 AM
it's against the forum rules... @js1991: can you please send me the link in a message?
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Hawk on October 10, 2018, 12:59:16 AM
It is not against forum rules to post a single link or a link on very infrequent occasions IF you are an established forum member as long as it does not appear you are promoting a site in return for money and as long as it is a reputable site.   It is spammers and scammers we are trying to eliminate.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Christopher1 on October 13, 2018, 09:31:17 PM
I do not think ultrasound will have the same effects, sadly.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: JS1991 on October 15, 2018, 06:11:15 PM
Pey ron, you are correct, I thought it was against the rules. User "Alibaba" sent me the link, he has used it if anyone wants to PM him. It was a link to a machine on eBay but the link no longer seems to work. Here is another one that is very similar: https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Original-Ultrasound-Ultrasonic-Therapy-Machine-for-Pain-Relief-1-Mhz-U101/301585772421?_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160706105314%26meid%3D29d7fa8568cb405aa7cea563e73274b4%26pid%3D100643%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26%26itm%3D301585772421&_trksid=p2045573.c100643.m3226

Christopher, What makes you think that massage device is more effective than ultrasound?
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: pey ron on October 16, 2018, 01:35:55 AM
I already have an ultrasound wand without the box. I can't remember if it was 3MHz or a 1MHz wand and the label doesn't say :(
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Hawk on October 16, 2018, 10:27:29 AM
My guess is there is model number or model brand name on it somewhere if you search the device.  If you find such, just Google it and you should be able to get the details.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: pey ron on October 25, 2018, 01:23:27 AM
It's the HS-3040, so it's 3 MHz. @JS1991: you sure 1 MHz is better than 3 MHz?

Output Power   24 VDC
Voltage   110V / 120V
Timer   Automatic off
Resonance   Pulse and Continuous
Output frequency   3 MHz /Sec Adjustable
Switch   ON / OFF
Intensity   Low~ High A djustment
Depth of Radiation   about 3~6 cm
Treatment Area   Probe Diameter: 4 cm / 1 5/8 "
Weight   135 G
Dimension   18.5 x 6 x 5 cm / 7 1/8" x 2 1/4" x 2"
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: JS1991 on October 25, 2018, 04:15:40 AM
I have no idea if 1 is better than 3, I assumed the opposite. I'll look your device up.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: NeoV on October 25, 2018, 06:16:56 AM
This is super exciting to me. I still haven't bought anything for this but now that my symptoms are so much better (nearly gone), I'm considering new things like this. I'll see what I can find here ><..
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease
Post by: Hawk on October 25, 2018, 09:15:35 AM
NeoV, if you improved without it, I am not sure I would introduce it.  Could it possibly inflame or trigger Peyronies Disease?

Are there any studies of ultrasound on Peyronies Disease or ED?

Would you use 1mhz or 3 MHz and why?

Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for erectile dysfunction and Peyronies Diseas
Post by: blackdiamond on October 25, 2018, 01:46:27 PM
Hi guys........Just my 2 cents.......
I did the full process of Shock Wave Therapy..
!2 sessions--------1800$
I hate to say but it didn't help my ED at all.............So yes my bend went from 75 degrees to 15 degrees after Xia, Traction, VED and manual modeling but what good is a straight dick if you
can't use it........
I have low T but don't want to start taking that so I'm going to start w injections of HCG.....
HCG I'm told should bring up the T levels within a few months.......
Good Luck
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for erectile dysfunction and Peyronies Diseas
Post by: Hawk on October 25, 2018, 02:17:36 PM
While T levels have a clear impact of libido I think many agree they have only a modest effect on ED.   If you do not find an acceptable solution for ED in oral meds and T replacement then it is probably time to at least consider an implant.  They have a higher satisfaction rate than any other ED solution.

Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for erectile dysfunction and Peyronies Diseas
Post by: Hawk on October 25, 2018, 02:19:10 PM
I am not sure I am picking up on the connection in this topic between Shockwave and ultrasound.  It is two totally different things.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for erectile dysfunction and Peyronies Diseas
Post by: Christopher1 on October 25, 2018, 09:51:30 PM
I never said I recommended ultrasound.

I have no experience with ultrasound besides using them in the clinic for ultrasound-guided injections or diagnostically.

The whole idea behind the Jeanie Rub is the tapotement. Ultrasound is a soundwave at a certain frequency. It does not cause tapotement of the tissues.

You need to use the Jeanie Rub until the machine makes your skin itch. This itch is what causes the histamine release.

Jeanie Rub --> itch --> local histamine release --> vasodilation --> fresh blood --> platelets for healing etc.

With that said - if you want to try the ultrasound, go right ahead and post your results.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for erectile dysfunction and Peyronies Diseas
Post by: Christopher1 on October 25, 2018, 09:53:05 PM
I was not quite correct in the above post.

"This itch is what causes the histamine release." <--- incorrect

The histamine release is what causes your tissues to itch, rather. Hope that makes sense. I was typing in a rush.
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for erectile dysfunction and Peyronies Diseas
Post by: YoungFella on November 13, 2018, 11:17:40 AM
Quote deleted by moderator. Please read the forum rules.
Hcg ? You gotta be kidding me.
Inject high dose testosterone with some dht steroid, and consider some nitiric oxide supplement like beet root powder.

People on this forum clearly doesn't have a CLUE about androgens and endocrinology.
I would take steroids for life than an implant.
At least testosterone pellets
Title: Re: Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for erectile dysfunction and Peyronies Diseas
Post by: TonySa on November 13, 2018, 02:47:13 PM
Great male hormone replacement protocols here: https://www.lifeextension.com/Protocols/Male-Reproductive/Male-Hormone-Restoration/Page-01