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Peyronies Disease TREATMENT Discussion Boards => Alternative Treatments of Peyronie's Disease => Topic started by: birdman73 on October 18, 2018, 06:16:59 AM

Title: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on October 18, 2018, 06:16:59 AM
Hello,

This is my first post.  I am an American living in Austria.  45 years old...

Very brief history: I have (what I consider a major case, but probably minor as I don't have bending) Peyronies Disease, where I have a mass inside of the penis, with some pain, and it blocks perhaps 50-60% of the blood flow during erection to the last 1/4 and head of my penis.  I can still have erections, but they are sometimes painful and smaller than before (in the blocked area...so overall length is less).  This began in August of 2017 and have been to two Urologists and both have confirmed Peyronies Disease.  I tried Pentox as prescribed by the first Dr., but had a severe allergic reaction (broke out in hives over my entire body).  I have tried for the past 5 months the normal consumption of over the counter (although sometimes difficult to find in Austria) drugs such as suggested in the welcome thread here:

CO Q10 - 200 - 400 mg daily divided into 2 or 3 doses. (If over 40 yrs old, consider substituting the more expensive Ubiquinol)
Acetyl L-Carnitine 1.5 - 3 grams per day divided into 2 or 3 dose
L-arginine 1.5 - 3 grams per day divided into 2 or 3 doses


It seemed to have little to no effect as it still seemed to get worse over time.

I have been following a semi-primal diet for the past 3 years, but only for weight and fitness aspects (I would be considered fit ~6' (185cm) and ~170# (80kg)).  Didn't follow it too strictly (it's hard as I travel a lot for business and have many many customer dinners in foreign lands...plus Austria has some amazing food and drinks, but all very not carb friendly).  I started researching the Keto Reset Diet from Mark Sisson (who also started me in Paleo after reading the Primal Blueprint) as I seemed to feel better the more strict I was with it...less tired, not as hungry, slept better, more energy...  I started the Keto Reset about 5 months ago and also felt that the bump(s) were less severe or sensitive when I was serious about it.  But again, was not strict enough.  I also regularly do IF by skipping breakfast...

After seeing some posts on here about the positive affects of a Keto Lifestyle and IF, I am going to try a long stint of this and track everything.  I started again two days ago and the urine strips were saying this morning my keytones were in a good range for ketosis...  I know that as I get fat adapted urine strips won't work anymore, so I have a Keto Mojo ordered and waiting for me in Michigan when I go there in the end of this month...  Then I will also have blood readings.  I am tracking all my food and drink intake using Carb Manager on iOS and will be documenting it all in Excel.  I had also ordered Serrapeptase 250,000 SPU, Nattokinase 2,000 Fu, and Lumbrokinase 20mg at the same time from Amazon and will also be taking that to try and break down the fibrosis...even though I now read that this might have been a waste of $$.  Or maybe if things seem to be improving before I get there, I send them back...

If there is interest in any progress, I can give regular updates...  If not, then I won't bother except maybe at the end of some time frame if I do or do not see any progress, I just give a conclusion and close the topic...
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on October 18, 2018, 06:25:03 AM
BTW...I have also tried:


Most of these I did not try for very long as zero obvious effect or even additional pain afterwards didn't seem like a positive thing...

Also, I forgot to mention that in 2015 for about a year I had tingling sensations at the end of my penis...it was really strange and even had multiple STD and other tests to see if everything was ok and everything came back fine.  I wonder if this was actually the start 2 years before the lumps started appearing...  It was like I could never get comfortable and the penis was always irritated...  Thought it was from swimming in pools, or the underwear I was wearing (even tried switching brands, different laundry soaps, etc...).
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: JS1991 on October 18, 2018, 04:00:17 PM
Hey, welcome to the forum! I'd love to hear of your progress, so please keep us updated. The only additional advice I can give you:

VED treatment takes a 6-12 months I've heard to be effective, so I believe you did not do it long enough. And in terms of diet, I would consider extending the intermittent fasting to the point where you're only eating in an 8 hour window, possibly less. In my opinion, for Peyronie's, the shorter the feeding window, the better. I plan on eating once a day after I do an extended (14-42 day) water fast. Regardless, I've heard specifically of masses like yours that block things in the penis reducing greatly from keto diet/fasting so it seems you're on the right track!
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: zipolite on October 18, 2018, 06:10:51 PM
Hey Birdman

Yes, please post your updates.

I am 7 weeks into 16 hr fasts and keto....basically slashed the bad carbs; sugar, bread, pasta rice. I have burned off all belly fat, got rid of bloating and flatulence, improved skin tone and lowered anxiety. Man how sugar messes up your body. The Autophagy process has been working as my skin tags are shrinking and falling off. I am feeling better overall.

As for the Peyronies, I have noticed a reduction in plaque  but not enough yet to improve the curve and dent. I am being patient with that. The first thing is to get your body functioning as evolution had intended, and the rest should take care of itself.

Happy Cannabis day

Zipolite


Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on October 19, 2018, 05:30:37 AM
Thanks for the feedback.  OK, I will post my results.

Also thanks for the feedback on the VED use both here and in PM's.  I will look into it further and continue to give it a shot.

Of course the scientist part of my brain wants to try everything one at a time so I know precisely what was the cure (if something works) but at this point I would be beyond ecstatic if something does work and I could narrow it to a few things.  I just want to be back to normal...
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Bachelek on October 19, 2018, 05:48:33 AM
Birdman73:
I also started a week ago with a sort of Keto diet.
Have diabetes 2 for about 15 yr. and about 2 kg overweight.
In 4 days! stopped with insulin, and 2 day after that with metformin.
Only by not taking carbs and sugar!
Success with your diet and don't give up!
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: skunkworks on October 19, 2018, 06:43:35 AM
4 days?! Crazy fast.

I'm not surprised at all about you beating 'incurable' type 2 diabetes just with diet, I've seen first hand too many cases of it to doubt any longer. But 4 days is very fast.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Bachelek on October 19, 2018, 11:11:57 AM
It's indeed unbelievable
I don't know how to attach a file from apple numbers
Or send me a pm with your mail so I can send it to you.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: TonySa on October 19, 2018, 02:26:26 PM
I understand wanting to try one approach at a time to know if it's effective.  However, it appears at least adding a physical therapy to your treatment regimen improved outcome w synergistic effect.  Also, treatments can take 6-12 months for effect so you could be trying one approach at a time for long stretches if time perhaps to no avail.  I'd at least try to add both VED (or traction) and low dose daily PDE5 inhibitors to your regimen.  What about xiaflex injection into the plaque?  Please keep us posted.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on October 20, 2018, 04:45:03 AM
Agree with Tsanchez here for oral meds!

Yes, please report birdman, we're all very interested in your perspectives :-)!!!

Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on October 23, 2018, 06:26:21 AM
Thanks for the feedback.

Just some replies, and then a status.

@TonySa "What about xiaflex injection into the plaque?"

Can someone give me a recommendation of who I could contact for this in the US?  I looked into a bit here in Austria and struck out.  They are very strict here when it comes to medicine (you even have to go to a pharmacy here for ibuprofen)...

I will also give the traction device a try more.

So...after one week into Keto, some observations:

- I am being very strict.  My net carb limit is 26g per day and only exceeded by 2 carbs one day.  The rest of the days have been much less.
- My Urine has shown a lot of Keytones since a week ago.  But, the readings, I think, are very dependent on the level of hydration you have. 
- Working out you really get tired fast.  But, I still do it to really try and burn through any Glucose I have in my body.  It also depletes the Keytones in the body I think so they register lower on the urine strips for a few hours after.
- Looking forward to getting my blood meter to see how it compares to the urine strips.
- The biggest thing is really mental to change the mindset to really consume a lot of fat.  And to get out of the normal mindset, especially with veggies, that "oh...I can eat these red peppers because they are a vegetable and vegetables are good..." ...  Also to maintain the right mix of protein....
- I am suffering a little bit of the Keto flu now as I think I am in the transition phase to getting fat adapted...
- I have also stopped drinking alcohol for this to try and not stress my body at all in addition and to make sure if I feel like crap it isn't the gin tonics or whisky or red wine
- I am also intermittent fasting, typically from 9pm until either 1pm the next day, or sometimes even dinner...maybe once per week when I go out for business lunches where there is not a suitable keto lunch available.  Or when on long haul international flights...but it will be sad to miss the amazing airplane food ;-)

I am trying to post an attachment of my daily log (.bmp) or embed a picture from dropbox but it doesn't seem to work...any suggestions?

As for results...  Of course I wish I could give you real hard facts on a reduction of the Peyronies Disease, but I "feel" like it is getting better...or at least not getting worse.  I think there is less pain and I also feel like it is reducing a tiny bit...but again it is COMPLETELY subjective...  But, I am going to definitely continue. 

It's strange, some days or times, it feels better than others...  Is this normal?

Thanks for the support.

-D
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on October 23, 2018, 11:18:17 AM
Hey Birdman,

Amazing account, thank you very much!!

I can relate a little to what you live, because it seems to be in some way comparable with what I have been feeling these last months, between low carb/high fat diet + IF + working out... God sport gets SO difficult... But keep on Birdman, you're doing the right thing and we are grateful for your experience!

Hopes your Peyronies is going to improve a lot.

Cheers,

G
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Bachelek on October 23, 2018, 11:38:33 AM
In EU there is a cardiologist named Aseem Malhotra, wich developed a miditerrain diet, named The Pioppi diet.
This is also a kind of Keto diet.
This man says that it's very good for preventing heart diseases, reversing diabetes 2 and obesity.
The example of reverse diabetes 2 is just typing this msg.
I hope it does also something for Peyronie....
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on October 29, 2018, 05:53:00 AM
Update: Oct. 29

So, I have been in Ketosis for 2 weeks now.  I am taking multiple urine tests per day and most are registering between 1.5 and 4...with only dips down to 0.5 after workouts.  I have had no readings below 0.5. 

I feel pretty good without feeling the "keto flu" anymore...  Still being very strict.  The biggest help is lots and lots of water, but also salt, minerals...  I find that  if I take a "post workout" salt and mineral pill this helps with any related headaches...

I am very cautiously optimistic, as I don't want to jump to conclusions...but...

I think it is working!  I no longer have any pain when either examining the lumps nor when having an erection.  I used to have significant pain during erection and I no longer have this. 

The size of the lumps also seems to be reducing.  I still have some restriction in blood flow during erection, but I am hoping it gets better and better.  I am feeling like more blood is getting to the head of my penis but still have a reduction in size after the area of restriction.  I have not started using any physical treatments (traction, vacuum, etc...)...

I will start a long business trip this week for 10 days which will be a food and drink challenge, but have a stop home during the weekend where I will pick up my blood meters and I am very interested to see a new level of analysis.  Also, picking up some keto related items that I am not able to get in Austria.  I will also get the Serrapaptase, Nattokinase, and Lumbrokinase pills that I ordered and will take those to see if they help too.  But, I am very excited about the results so far... 

Of course it could be a coincidence that it seems to be getting better right when I started this diet, but the more I research this diet, the more I am convinced that the improvement is related to the diet.

Any questions are welcome.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: JS1991 on October 29, 2018, 03:30:09 PM
Wow, great results! I've heard of very similar outcomes from multiple people. Consider adding intermittent fasting into your routine (8 hour feeding window every day; strict water fast the other 16) I think it will really help you out a lot.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on October 29, 2018, 03:51:35 PM
Yep.  IF is already part of my program...
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on October 30, 2018, 03:41:56 AM
WOW Birdman, thanks a lot for your this post, this gives us great hope!! What a willpower you have here, you can be proud of yourself!!!

So, after 15 days of keto + IF you already stopped your pain in erection ?... that's another mental step for me toward trying ketosis... I have tried almost everything for 13 months about it (meds, supps, diclofenac, essential oils, traction/VED, injections, diet, IF...) but nothing really totally works, and pain in erection does not seem to improve anymore.

Was it more or less your case (I mean, a pain that won't go in spite )?

And another important question: which sport do you practice, and how are the workouts now that you're fully into keto? I myself made the try: I do can swim in HIIT or do yoga with very few if any carbs, but it's impossible to do a full body 1h weightlifting session in such a state (tried during 1 month and a half, felt terrible all the time, couldn't progress anymore, was always exhausted). But maybe strength comes back when you really switch to ketosis?

Thanks for your answer buddy!!
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on October 30, 2018, 05:51:17 AM
Hi @Gabriel,

Yes, previously I would have some pain during the normal night erections that would wake me up.  But, when I really had an erection (during sex with my girlfriend or "good" night erections) that were quite painful.  This pain is totally gone (I specifically woke up last night having to pee with an erection with zero pain).

Also, previously, just examining the lumps (or my GF examining it) could be quite painful if the right spots in the lumps were pressed.  This pain is also gone (I have not tried to really press hard to make some pain happen).

I can honestly say now that the lumps are reducing in size.  I checked again this morning in the shower and the reduction is quite significant (maybe 15-20%).  It is still hard, but smaller.

As for sport, I ride bikes, run a few times per month, but mostly lift weights and swimming.  Before, I could go hard and heavy for an hour and swim 30 minutes (crawl stroke) but now I lift weights for an hour but MUCH lighter weight as I fatigue quickly (I could go heavy for the first few reps, but crash after 3-4 reps).  So, I reduced the weight and shoot for 10-12 and focus on slow controlled movements and strong contractions and this is working well for me.  I am completely exhausted after so I only do 15-20 minutes of breast stroke to cool down...  If I just swim, I can still easily do longer swims...  I also get tired quicker biking and know this is a lot of stress on my body so I am dialing that back until probably the spring. 

From my understanding, once fat adapted, strength should come back.  But, I also wonder if maybe the non-carb fueled body can have the same level of sport performance/muscles (and is it really needed for non severe lifestyles actually...like professional athletes, construction workers, etc...).

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: zipolite on October 30, 2018, 06:55:24 AM
Hi Birdman

Great to hear of your progress.

I am into my 9th week of being fat adapted. I am a runner and had similar weakness issues in the first 3 weeks. That passed and I am actually finding I have a stronger finish when running. I am also experiencing less post run muscle stress and fatigue.

I do sneak some carbs in before a run but those burn off quickly and I can tell when I am back to burning fat. I am doing 16 to 20 hour IF so that needs to be managed into my routine

As for the Peyronies, I am seeing improvements in the curve - minimal but going forward. I have seen a significant number of physiological changes since going fat adapted and all for the better.

Zipolite





Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: JS1991 on October 30, 2018, 10:02:21 PM
In terms of athletic performance you can perform in ketosis once adjusted, but there's no getting around the fact that you need carbs to perform at the highest levels, so take that fwiw. And once again congrats on the results! According to my research it seems as though the keto diet kills inflammation and the fasting (autophagy) steadily eats away at the plaques.

Are you in the acute phase or the chronic phase, birdman?
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on October 31, 2018, 03:54:16 AM
Hey Guys,

Birdman, Zipolite, thanks a great lot for your detailed answers, which are fascinating to me. I take good note of all that info, which will certainly help me taking the step to keto, and help me finding the strength to maintin it!!

From what you said, two suggestions came to my mind about the sport/energy problem:
1) Have you tried to add BCAAs and L-glutamin to your regimen, especially around the training/effort moments? Both are absolutely great to reduce muscular catabolism and provide a huge amount of energy directly to your muscles without the smallest amount of carbs, and without the smallest rise of insulin. I have not come to glutamin yet, but I widely use BCAA when I do a swimming or weightlifting session (it's the only thing that prevented me from crashing after 3 reps when I was very low carb), and also when I want to lose more fat (it acts like a shield for your muscular cells and forces your metabolism to burn fat instead of protein, particularly when carbs and glycogen are missing).

2) So, Zipolite, you do say that we can actually sneak a few carbs in (like 40-50g?) when we are to produce a great and durable effort, and thus without threatening the whole keto system?? That would be great. Personnally, I have stayed pretty low carbs for the last 2-3 weeks, but I went back to using Vitargo mixed with my BCAAs when I do sport: it's the fastest carbs we know, i.e. they are almost immediately bioavailable, used a source of energy and quickly eleminated when you ingest them while doing sport. Well, the results were incredible, as I was able to progress in performance for the first time since like 4 months (when I went low carb); maybe that Vitargo could also be a solution for you guys, if it does not threaten the general ketosis mode.

Oh BTW, Zipolite, apart from long-term efforts (running, swimming...), after those 3 weeks into keto, have you also noticed a return of strength when you have to produce a great effort for a small amount of time (like when lifting heavy stuff, climbing stairs very fast...)?

Thanks again guys ;-)
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: zipolite on October 31, 2018, 06:23:28 AM
Gabriel

I will start out by saying I am still early in the process of understanding fat adapted and performance. I am making adjustments as I go along.

I am probably at about 30- 50 grams of carbs daily. I am 5'6" and 129 pounds so that context is needed as 50 carbs on me compared to a 180 pound person is a factor. I am boosting keto with 18 - 20 hour IF and exercise - sounds like you are in the same area.

Yesterday I had about a 20 carb breakfast/lunch at 12 and then ran a 6k at 5:00. I was strong the whole run and picked up the pace for the last kilometer. I was definitely in fat burn mode the whole run. So did I burn off the carbs before the run? Maybe the carbs are a psychological crutch.

I do add stairs into the end of some runs (8 flights) and don't see any difference from pre-keto days. In the early days of adapting that would have been tough.

I am low weight and high reps in weights so i can't offer much there.

Hope that helps

Zipolite







Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on November 01, 2018, 03:55:17 PM
Hey Zipolite,

Thanks for your answer!

This is fascinating. And indeed, it helps a lot!!

I've been reading today about ketogenic diet, starting to gather scientific info, to understand metabolic ways... It does look like a solution that is worth trying for us; and I recognized a lot of phenomena you're describing throughout my reading. Carry on mate!

By the way, I've also been reading that the n°1 danger while going keto for a while is a chronic general acidosis, which can cause HUGE problems at every level in the body; of course, I assume you are all aware of these risks and know how to recognize and prevent them (besides, my memory tells me that the subject has already been discussed somewhere, maybe in Neo's "Peyronies & diet" thread).

About that, I've been thinking that taking potassium and/or sodium bicarbonate daily in order to keep your PH not so low (acid) might be a perfect solution... Has anyone tried already? Personally, thanks to Paolo's and Old Man suggestions (somewhere here), I've been taking potassium and sodium bicarbonate for like 2 months now, and feel great from it (no more acid reflux, less general inflammation feeling, perfect digestion that facilitates good sleep at night...).

Anyway, stay strong guys, and keep us updated about your progress :-)!

Bye,

G
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: JS1991 on November 01, 2018, 05:15:31 PM
It's been a theory of mine that a small amount of carbs introduced pre-workout can be burned off instantly allowing intense workouts with minimal loss of time in ketosis. And on acidosis: be careful in keto if you're drinking coffee all day while intermittent fasting. This can promote acidosis.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on November 03, 2018, 07:27:57 AM
Hi Everyone,

Short update as I now took my first blood reading this morning.  Been on business travel the last three days with a 11 hour flight and awake for 23 hours on Wednesday and 13 hours of flying and driving yesterday.  IF for the flights and only drank a cup of coffee (just normal coffee, nothing added) and water.  The best I've ever felt flying actually...wish I would have done this 10 years ago...

@JS1991 - Sorry...I am not sure how to answer your Acute or Chronic question.  I am not sure what the difference means...

So, I am now at my parent's for the weekend and used my Keto Mojo for the first time.  My blood readings this morning were:

Ket: 1.2 mmol/L
Glu: 88 mg/dL , 4.9 mmol/L
G:K 4.1

My Urine test this morning was also registering in the 1.5 range so it was somewhat aligned...

From my understanding this means I am in a pretty good state of Ketosis.  Doesn't mean I am fat adapted yet, but I can say I feel great.  More "awake"...

I also got my supplemental drugs (Serrapaptase, Nattokinase, and Lumbrokinase) which may/or may not help with reducing the plaque...but I will take them anyway...

As far at the Peyronies Disease...  Still feels like it is improving, but still a long way to go.  At least the pain is severely reduced...and when I am going to the bathroom holding my penis I don't feel it as much which is a huge mental boost...like you aren't reminded about it throughout the day.

BTW...I found a very good podcast...  The Keto Answers Podcast...  Listened to it for maybe 5 hours yesterday during my travels.  Even thinking about if my results are positive to contact the MD behind it to possibly start a research program on the affect of a Ketogenic Diet on Peyronies Disease...

Still very cautiously optimistic... 
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on November 03, 2018, 09:12:01 AM
Hey Birdman,

Another great post. Thank you, and congratulations for what seem to be very promising progress!

On my side, I just finished reading extensively this amazing site about ketosis, which seems ultra-complete and very pedagogical : https://www.ruled.me/guide-keto-diet/

This, your posts and Neo's thread definitly push me towards keto... I think I'll finish my set of PRP/HA injection, let christmas/new year's eve pass, and go full keto on january...
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on November 03, 2018, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: Gabriel on November 03, 2018, 09:12:01 AM
On my side, I just finished reading extensively this amazing site about ketosis, which seems ultra-complete and very pedagogical : https://www.ruled.me/guide-keto-diet/

Thanks for the link.  You are right, looks like a great source of information. 
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on November 04, 2018, 05:37:13 AM
Keto also cured my premature ejaculation that I acquired when my insulin resistance got bad.

The new girl I'm having sex with is 20, and ultra hot, so I wondered how that would go. I have zero problems with that and the sex is amazing.

My anxiety toward women and sex is just zero now, and I think all my anxiety since I was a kid was based on blood sugar / insulin, which no tests will even show (particularly if it's on the mitochondrial level). Of course I have also been going out every day so that is a big part of it. My heart used to pound constantly, all my life, and a lot with women and I used to struggle to get an erection. Now I don't feel my heart beat at all, and never with women. I get erections just talking to girls, so there's been quite a switch in how my arousal and physiology are working now. Things just feel natural.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on November 05, 2018, 12:48:25 PM
Hey Neo,

It's good to see you on this thread man!

What you claim about keto diet here and there is absolutely great; I've been reading a lot lately about it, and feel more and more pushed toward this kind of regimen. I came across a lot of miracle stories, which remain what they are (ie uncheckable narratives), but when taken together provide huge hope all the same.

It's funny you talk about premature ejaculation, because I developped that symptom too at the very same time I developped my "CPPS" problems (+ hair loss, etc.); that was 6 years ago, when began what I finally identify as a "general strange inflammatory condition".

Do you really, rationaly and scientificly believe that your ED/premature ejaculation/anxiety were caused by insulin resistance and cured by keto? Also, I too noticed that I could feel my heartbeats at the same periods where I felt downs in my general inflammatory state; I attributed them to inconscious anxiety, but do you believe this could have to do with insulin levels?

Thank you, and thanks a lot guys for this amazing thread!
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on November 06, 2018, 08:47:48 AM
Premature ejaculation is WELL known to be caused by (primarily) by insulin resistance. This is due to nerve damage to the penis and autonomic nerve dysfunction, among probably some other things. A google or PubMed search will show blood sugar and premature ejaculation links.

That's crazy you mention hair loss. I also got hair loss, joint pain, Peyronie's, and all this at the same time when the insulin resistance began. Now I refer to it as glucotoxicity, since no real test will show it but it's very clear it's related. Hair loss is something I'm unsure about...
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on November 08, 2018, 03:54:22 PM
Hey Neo,

Again, thank you so much for your posts, which make me explore a totally new universe of factors, explanations and maybe revelations about the conditions I've been suffering from for years now.

Just googling "ejaculation and insulin resistance" 2 minutes seconds ago, I effectively came across a huge lot of studies associating ED to insulin resistance, and I stumbled mostly on THIS: https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/43360900/Insulin_Resistantce_and_ED_.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A&Expires=1541713322&Signature=LE%2FsqHjef0YeYH8pzvw8X5%2BcdCQ%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DORIGINAL_RESEARCH_ERECTILE_DYSFUNCTION_I.pdf

--> This study makes, for the first time to my eyes, a direct link between insulin resistance, prostate volume, lower urinary tract symptoms, low testosterone and ED: ALL the symptoms that began AT THE SAME TIME 6 years ago, along with pubic/facial/cranial hair loss and a general swelling sensation in my lower abdomen...

So, I must confess I'm a little crazed and baffled: could all the mysterious symptoms I've been suffering from for years (in and outside stress periods, it has to be mentioned) just be related to some mysterious insulin resistance that couldn't be detected in my glycemic analysis? And so could that explain the fact that I managed to keep some of my prostate symptoms at bay by changing my diet over those years (less refined carbs, less cofee/tea, more veggies...)??

All of this is so tempting, I feel like I have to be intellectually super cautious here...

Any advise is preciously accepted, Neo and guys!!!
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: JS1991 on November 08, 2018, 09:48:49 PM
Well, only one way to find out. Go full keto! Also, the link to the article doesn't seem to be working.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on November 10, 2018, 01:14:02 PM
Another link to the study, this time functional (the previous one was on pdf): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24836928

Hey JS, going keto is now officially on my agenda; for various reasons I'll begin only in january; in the meantime, I would like to gather as much information as I can about the possible link between my symptoms and insulin.

Besides, this is not entirely clear to me yet:
1) Will a keto diet produce zero or insignificant amounts of insulin? What about the sweeteners (like stevia) I still want to use in my drinks or shakers, and that are more and more said to cause an insulin rise?
2) Do you finally have glucose circulating in your metabolism while on keto, or does the body directly used ketones to make ATP?
3) If you don't have any glucose circulating, why could insulin rises have negative effets on you and your Peyronie's?

@Neo: my other mysterious symptoms include :
- Localized, circular, massive and temporary hair loss on the head (apart from the general hair rarefaction): that began with everything else, and seem to have stopped since I changed my nutrition (less inflammatory food, more veggies);
- Insomnia with "electric muscular discharges" for like 15 - 20 min when I'm about to fall asleep: began almost exactly with Peyronie's;
- Some other minor things I can't think of now.

--> Have you ever experienced something similar, or that mysterious, that would have been caused by IR and cured by keto??
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on November 11, 2018, 01:27:47 AM
Your body will have very low amounts of insulin and will get enough glucose from protein and triglyceride conversion to glucose. The body requires zero glucose from outside

High insulin in the body lowers nitric oxide production and causes inflammation all throughout the body. Insulin itself is a disaster for the penis, and it alone causes the whole fibrotic cascade from what I have read.

Gabriel the falling asleep zaps and electric issues is insulin resistance. I had it so severe that my arms would flail at night, and now a friend of mine is developing diabetes and cannot sleep well at all due to neurological issues identical to this. Neuropathy is one of the earliest symptoms for most people with IR (despite most people having a degree of it).

Keto cured facial numbness, penile numbness, hand arm and feet numbness, which originally began as burning. My feet used to burn at night, and my father has this so bad that his feet are mostly numb at the bottom. My zaps stopped, and anxiety episodes which would results in my heart pounding. Also sleep apnea, waking up gasping for air and heart pounding. That is very serious and only happened to me when my IR was bad but is now cured. I always had arrhythmia since a teenager, that is cured as well and is caused by autonomic nerve damage. A healthy person should hardly notice their heart beat. Arrhythmia is very common in diabetics.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Paolo on November 11, 2018, 05:43:00 AM
NeoV, have you tried either Glycine or Gelatin for IR control??, Glycine inhibits lipolysis.
Paul.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on November 11, 2018, 06:20:09 AM
Neo, thanks again for your post!

Each step in this IR field is like a major breakthrough for me.

Doing some researches, I've just discovered that this zaps and electric shocks at night can be caused bt diabetic conditions; I also remembered that my grandfather dramatically suffered from the restless leg syndrome for like 15 years, which could also be correlated. And it also came back to my mind that when Peyronies Disease began, I suffered from strange numbness (more like tingling actually, I guess), in my hands and forearms when I would fall asleep; these are not very disturbing and come and go now, I believe thanks to much better diet + fasting.

I too had episodes of waking up and gasping for air, but mysteriously it seems to be gone.

Neo, could you please draw us a short chronology of how and when your majors symptoms (Peyronies Disease + those "general metabolic" ones) faded and disappeared while going keto?

Also, is there any way, any means of getting your IR tested and put numbers on all these parameters??

Again, thanks a lot :-)!!!

Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on November 12, 2018, 02:23:43 PM
Hi Everyone,

I am back from my business trip to the US and Canada and have a bit more information and curious tidbits to share...  It's been a discovery event for me...  BTW...thanks guys for keeping the conversation going in my absence.

I talk a little bit about my Keto experience first...  Some is first hand experience and some is from what I have read or heard since I started...  Want to help some not make the same ,,mistakes" I did (although I put mistakes in ,," as I am sure I learned from it...).

First of all...you need to track your progress somehow.  My experience and feedback now tells me that the way to go is a blood glucose monitor.  The urine strips are easy, cheap, but only really work in the beginning.  Once your body gets adapted, then it seems to stop peeing out excess ketones (and your body probably is getting sorted on how much to produce).  But, in the beginning it is a good motivator to see the pad turn pink meaning you are producing ketones...

As for measuring ketones and glocuse with blood...I bought the Keto Mojo which does both and I am still tracking both.  But, from what I have heard and now know from my experience, the glocuse reading is much faster after eating and is also much cheaper to do.  So, if I were to do it again and you are on a budget, I would just get a simple blood glocuse monitor and use the pee strips in the beginning to see if you get into ketosis, and then use glucose the rest of the way.

I managed to stay in ketosis the entire trip and honestly I felt great.  I didn't have the normal stomach issues I used to have and actually didn't find it hard to eat (along with some days of IF).

I did have some issues of high glocuse levels and low ketones some days but now I think I know the cause.  I found out the Nattokinase and Lumbrokinase pills I was taking were full of Maltextrose and think they were spiking a response.

As far as the Peyronies Disease...this was good and bad.  I was and still feeling a much reduced lump and no pain most of the time, but some days in the evening, the lump felt more swollen and the pain returned.  So, I was playing with things and now think it was one of two things...both of which I will still explore.

I believe that it was either dairy as I had heavy cream in my coffee some mornings as well as cheese several of the days or it was after the few dinners I had a vodka spritzer or glass of red wine with dinner.  So, I think either dairy or alcohol.  I have avoided those the last 3 days and the pain has stayed away (even though I continued with the rest of my medications).  I will omit both for the next 5 days and if everything still stays great then I will try one and see if it has an affect...

I feel great on Keto and once you figure out how to eat, the food is great and not to hard to make...

Will keep updating the progress.

Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: JS1991 on November 13, 2018, 04:01:46 PM
Although dairy could be the cause, I have a strong feeling it was the alcohol. Let us know what happens!
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: skunkworks on November 13, 2018, 08:17:25 PM
Reactions to the sulfites in wine are quite common, but so are reactions to dairy.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on November 13, 2018, 09:51:19 PM
Gabriel yes you can get your fasting insulin tested. I haven't done it but my case was so obvious based on my symptoms that I likely never will. Also know that metabolic disease begins in the mitochondria and I doubt one can test for that very well. Moreover, each organ has its own metabolic profile. Someone with Alzheimer's has IR in the brain, but no blood test will show this.

Alcohol at a high enough volume makes my penis much worse as well as my IR symptoms.
Cheese and cream on the other hand are my staples! :)

I hope you stick to it birdman. The first several months were hard for me and I lost a lot of weight. Now it's just normal for me and I feel great.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on November 15, 2018, 03:16:50 AM
Had another business trip yesterday and fasted for 26 hours before taking my blood level again and 36 hours in total...

Hit my best numbers yet...probably helped by the huge grilled salmon filet and sautéed in coconut oil Brussel sprouts I had right before my fast...

Numbers at hour 26 when I returned home:

Glucose: 74
Ketones: 4.1!
G:K of 1!!

Numbers at hour 36 when I woke up this morning...

Glucose: 67
Ketones: 3.7
G:K of 1.3

Sorry...just excited for my personal record...

Penis feels great again!

Happy Thursday everyone!
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: diehardpatriot on November 15, 2018, 02:21:57 PM
Hey guys, I'm a bit confused here. I tried keto for about a month and a half. penis pain was the same however my wrists and ankles which usually are in pain after vigorous exercise (basketball) (wrists and ankles have been sprained in the past and my body never lets me forget) we'rent in pain. This is when I thought it may be the keto

Anyway, a few questions
1) how important is IF when doing keto for Peyronies Benefits? I plan on excesing a lot including basketball and weight lifting. So calories will be burned, lots.

2) how does IF add benefits and in what way is it different than just keto alone?

3)what do y'all mean by "feeding windows"

2)will I see benefits doing keto and eating 2 or 3 times a day and lots of calories?
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: JS1991 on November 15, 2018, 07:23:39 PM
 Hey patriot! In my opinion IF goes hand in hand with keto in terms of benefits and will give you a boost for sure if you didn't do it in the past. Also, adhering to strict keto (as opposed to cheating a little on carbs) seems to be important as well.

IF adds benefits via autophagy, the body's natural waste removal process and subsequent natural stem cell regeneration. Autophagy activates in a state of fasted ketosis, which is obviously easier to achieve when already on a daily keto diet. Autophagy also won a Nobel prize in 2016, google it!

A feeding window for intermittent fasting is broken down within the 24 hours of a day. So a feeding window of 8 hours (a common variant of IF) would mean eat from roughly 1-9pm (or whenever you want) then consume nothing but water from 9pm-1pm. You essentially do a short water fast after dinner, while you sleep, and for a few hours after you wake up, then repeat. You can also do OMAD (one meal a day) and 24-48hr+ fasts, and eventually extended water fasts of 7-42 days if you want to get crazy. I plan on getting crazy lol.

Yes, I'd say you will see benefits. But I'm not a doctor, as you know. The beautiful thing about intermittent fasting is that it can help heal and clean your body out. In terms of your case, there is even a chance that it could help with erectile dysfunction. You can only find out for sure if you try! Regardless your health will benefit.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: diehardpatriot on November 15, 2018, 07:37:42 PM
THANK YOU JS. Thankfully, I do not have erectile disfunction. Awesome!!! I'll probably do IF with a 6-9 hour feeding window. Eating lots of high fat snacks so I am fueled for my workouts or to play basketball. The goal here would be for my pain to go away. If the lump goes down that'd be an added bonus. Honestly, I think we should all participate in our own little study to really see if this works. NeoV is already living proof as his pain is completely gone, his bend greatly reduce and his sex life back to normal. Dm me so we can discuss if that's something you all would be interested in .
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: TonySa on November 15, 2018, 07:51:09 PM
I'd love to hear what degrees improvement one has in there curve or other measurements on keto and/or IF!
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: JS1991 on November 17, 2018, 06:08:47 AM
Here is a great interview with Dr. Jason Fung on fasting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Aw0P7GjHE

The initial clip (first minute or so) he explains synergy between keto/IF. Worth checking out! I plan on buying his book (The Ultimate Guide to Fasting) and I'll share any gems I find with you all.

Edit: Here is another clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufnFuwB7aCA that addresses a big issue one can come across when fasting/keto: hair loss. It is due to nutrient imbalance and I think EVERYONE should arm themselves with this knowledge in order to perform the keto/fasting properly.

Edit 2: As a companion to the link I posted in the water fasting thread, here is the "Keto Cured My..." story thread that I just found: https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/7m4lb0/keto_cured_my_what_are_your_stories/ check out the "Fasting Cured My..." link in the other thread.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: james1947 on November 18, 2018, 04:02:01 PM
I don't want to broke the "Diet" party, but I will post my experience in the subject. I will try to make it short.

12 years ago, before even knowing that have such a thing "Peyronies" I had some problems with slightly enlarged prostate.
After a comprehensive research I found a doctor that was lawyer before that cured his prostate cancer without surgery and/or medications.
I bought his book, PDF download, $20.
Followed the book religiously, fasting, cleansing, expensive supplements, taking out all my amalgam tooth fillings (some of 40 year old) for more than 18 month.
For example, 7 days on grapefruits only. Water fasting for up to 48 hours.
Results:
* Very significant weight loss.
* Destroyed tooth, no any ceramic fillings hold more than 1 year.
* No any effect on my prostate and urinary problems.

Wrote him an email, asking for advice, maybe I am doing things wrong.
I got a prompt, long answer from his wife. I will just summarize it:
QuoteI am Dr. X wife, sorry to inform you that our dear... passed away...etc'.. from prostate cancer
And all this after he cured himself already from prostate cancer. How sad :(
The wife still sales the book, she lives now in Florida, surrounded by young beech boys I suppose, from the book incomes.

Just my experience :( Other may have much bigger success with fasting and cleansing  :)

James
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: JS1991 on November 19, 2018, 03:53:14 PM
Hey, james thanks for the input! Allow me to make a few arguments. First of all, I'm not sure about cleansing, expensive supplements or taking out all of my tooth fillings. I wouldn't recommend that. You mention that your only extended fast was on grapefruit juice, which would not allow autophagy to take place as a water fast would. 48hr+ water fasts I'm assuming might have done you some good, but how often did you do this? And this was pre-Peyronies?

In terms of these claims of autophagy eating cancer, well.. I believe if you look at how autophagy works, it's believable that it could in SOME cases help, but it definitely does not cure cancer. So I'm not surprised the man you spoke of ended up dying. Everything I've read of cancer-healing with autophagy states that you should fast as a strong preventative measure to cancer.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: diehardpatriot on November 19, 2018, 10:13:39 PM
James, I gotta say super interesting and insightful story and sadly made me giggle, the irony... poor guy. I have to ask though, did the book include any scientific studies or evidence to support his conclusions on why his diet works? In our case with keto and IF, there are more than 4 scientific studies that support the theory that keto is beneficial for Peyronies.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on November 20, 2018, 06:16:56 AM
There is good evidence that keto inhibits prostate cancer. At least three studies with another trial ending soon in December this year.

Ketogenic diet in cancer therapy. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3757152/)
Low-Carbohydrate Diets and Prostate Cancer: How Low Is "Low Enough"? (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3757152/)


The only cancers that do not benefit cancer are some skin cancers due to the BRAF pathway, but this has only been demonstrated in rats. Keto so far is becoming one of the most effective adjunct therapies to cancer, NOT because of autophagy, but due to the warburg effect.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: james1947 on November 24, 2018, 07:51:56 AM
I don't have the book anymore as it gone when my computer blowup some 11 years ago.
Sadly I had just partial backup, just for important technical things.
If I remember correct, the book end was full with testimonies of people that were successful following the book, but I don't remember studies, just some studies regarding the supplements he advised.
The 48+ water diet I made just a few times because I shared my time between office and field work. And all this was pre-Peyronies.

James
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: zipolite on November 24, 2018, 08:19:40 AM
A few weeks back there were some posts exchanged regarding adding carbs before exercise. I was adding a small amount before a run knowing I would burn them off fairly early. This was in response to a couple of bad runs without carbs where I struggled to finish.

So this is an update for those managing exercise and keto; I am closing in on 3 months being in keto and building up my distance. The last two Sunday runs were 18 kilometers and on both occasions I did not take in any carbs and had no issues with energy and felt like I had gas in the tank at the end. This was also after 16 hours of fasting....after a very low carb dinner.

So, is my body adapting to being in keto?

oh yes, my ketones were at 4.0 mmol/l after too.

Zipolite

Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: JS1991 on November 24, 2018, 05:17:07 PM
Wow, that's great news zipolite! It seems like your body has adjusted to ketosis, I'm very happy for you! How long were your runs pre-keto as a comparison?
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on November 25, 2018, 06:41:34 AM
Hello guys!

Back on track after a sudden and quite long hospitalisation for a severe colitis (lol... nothing to do with Peyronies Disease I guess ?). Very weird by the way: ever since I quit smoking and follow a good diet (more than one year now), I have never been sick!

Well, anyways, guys, Birdman, Neo, Js, Zipolite and everyone, thanks a lot for keeping this fascinating thread so dynamic. I just read your answers with great interest and pleasure!

By the way, how bad was all your adaptation to keto? I mean the keto flu thing, exhaustion, depression & irritability symptoms, etc.: is reasonably possible to consider switching to keto during a week of work, or would you rather wait for vacation/long weekend??
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on November 27, 2018, 06:13:52 AM
Hi Gabriel, all,

For me the adaption was rough, then really rough, then rough...but now is great.  I had keto flu, then the keto headache for two days really bad...with some others off and on.  I would say I had some aspects of adapting for 3 weeks...

But since the last two weeks I have been feeling good (except when I cheated a little and ate a piece of Thanksgiving pie...but I really wanted to see how I felt and how fast I got back into ketosis).

And like the others, I have tons of energy during the day, my workouts are back to full blast (or even more)...  When it's time for sleep, I am out, and then I am getting up earlier and earlier full of energy.  I feel like a new person.

As for my peyronies...I would say that the progress of reduction has slowed, but at least the pain is gone and it doesn't seem to be getting worse.  Maybe I am just getting out of the acute phase and it isn't the result of the keto diet...  But, I am just happy there seems to be some progress...or at least less/no worsening...

My ketones are now more than 1.2 always, often over 3, and even more if I eat enough fat during the day/evening.  I am really learning new recipes that are amazing and even Thanksgiving was very Keto friendly.  Other than the slice of apple pie...but I ate it.  Then had a stomach ache and later my restless legs was back (it has been gone since keto)...

So, I keep going...  Monitoring glucose and ketones every morning...tracking it all.  Not looking back and missing the ,,bad" stuff less and less every day. 

BR
Don

Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: skunkworks on November 27, 2018, 06:19:38 AM
When you've really settled into keto, I suggest trying a 2-3 day fast.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: diehardpatriot on November 27, 2018, 03:24:52 PM
Skunkworks: that's what I plan on doing when once I'm adpated for a while
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on November 27, 2018, 03:56:02 PM
OK. I will try a 2-3 day fast next week...
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on December 04, 2018, 07:05:32 AM
Just completed a 40 hour fast and it is surprising how easy it was.  And the lumps seem to be smaller than before so I will continue this on a weekly basis.  Very interesting improvement.

Keto / Glucose numbers during the fast are amazing...  Feel great and able to make good workouts too.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: JS1991 on December 04, 2018, 04:24:36 PM
Wow, the lumps decreased in size off of one 40 hour fast? And in terms of difficulty, it seems like fasting is WAY easier than anyone expects.

patriot, I would experiment with fasting now if I were you; no need to wait until you are fat adapted. It does not make a difference. Search "Snake Diet" the man behind it knows what he's doing even though he's a little annoying.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on December 05, 2018, 02:37:53 PM
I may have been overly optimistic as my girlfriend says it feels about the same...  But in any case, I will keep it up. 

I think the ability to fast at will for up to 48 hours can come in handy...  It was amazing how hungry I was not...and how much energy I still had. 
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: diehardpatriot on December 06, 2018, 09:07:29 AM
JS: i really want to. But I got very skinny on keto and IF. I'm doing both at the same time and I've thinned our a lot. Neo told me this would happen. I have people telling me I look very skinny. I don't want to get even more skinny. That's why I want to wait till I'm adapted and not as thin. I'm gonna make a post sharing what happens throughout my journey
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on December 06, 2018, 02:52:41 PM
Hello guys!

As nothing seems to take me out of the acute phase and as I am still doing my hormonal treatment for other problems, I have been taking a break off the forum and Peyronie thoughts until I can try going full keto in a few weeks/months.

So just to tell you I'm very glad to see this thread going on, and all the progress Birdman and Zipo are reporting; you're keeping hope alive guys, thanks a lot and congratulations for your achievements!!

Take care and never give up :-),

G
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: hope794 on December 06, 2018, 06:46:52 PM
Hello guys, i see that you're experimenting a cure with diet. That's great.
But i'm sorry to say that, IMHO, this is not really a "scientifical method": what i mean is that you have to measure plaque reduction with an ultrasound. That's the only way to know if it is really bigger, smaller, or it is the same. I think that this would be the correct way to make science.

I just gave my opinion, i think that it is GREAT that someone here is experimenting,i really appreciate your will.
A question: anyone else tried keto diet? Did it work to improve your plaque / ED / Curvature?

Thank you brothers.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on December 06, 2018, 10:43:52 PM
Here is a study on men with Diabetes and Peyronie's, their plaques got smaller when they treated their diabetes.
-----Improvement of chronic Peyronie's disease symptoms after diabetic compensation: a retrospective study. (2013) (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235715553_Improvement_of_Chronic_Peyronie's_Disease_Symptoms_After_Diabetic_Compensation_A_Retrospective_Study)

Insulin directly increases tgf-beta receptors on cell surfaces, and is therefore thought to cause fibrosis. Avoiding insulin spikes is key to slow aging and fibrosis.
-----The insulin response integrates increased TGF-β signaling through Akt-induced enhancement of cell surface delivery of TGF-β receptors. (http://stke.sciencemag.org/content/8/396/ra96)

Pre-diabetics have higher tgf-beta levels.
Regulation of transforming growth factor-β1 by insulin in prediabetic African Americans (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0085253815545274)

Insulin also lowers nitric oxide, which is why those with hyperinsulinemia (prediabetic state, not shown by a standard blood test), get more heart disease and cancer and fibrosis.
-----High Glucose Inhibits Insulin-stimulated Nitric Oxide Production without Reducing Endothelial Nitric-oxide Synthase Ser1177 Phosphorylation in Human Aortic Endothelial Cells (http://www.jbc.org/content/278/21/18791)

I may not use the word cure, but it is the only logical preventative dietary measure I can think of.

This is only scratching the surface of many other studies I have compiled.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: TonySa on December 07, 2018, 08:45:35 PM
The diet and potential impact all make sense, but I'm still watching for measureable progress beyond smaller plaques.  Ie, smaller plaques that resulted in measureably reduced bends and/or hourglassing/dents.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: skunkworks on December 07, 2018, 11:59:48 PM
It'd probably work something like an icecube though, for palpable plaques. The bigger it is the slower it melts.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: JS1991 on December 10, 2018, 05:00:06 AM
Some advice for those suffering keto flu: a 48 hour WATER ONLY (or snake juice) fast should clear it right up. My belief is that keto flu comes from flirting with ketosis and forcing it via fasting will result in a more intense 12 hour flu followed by zero symptoms and the ability to follow the diet without having to deal with keto flu. Let me know if that helps any of you!

Also, once you are 2-3 days into a fast you stop being hungry if you have fat on you to burn. Headaches and muscle cramps can be dealt with via snake juice (electrolytes/salts/water). Look up snake diet on youtube (more a fasting regimen than a diet), that is the path I've decided to follow, and I'm going to end it with a one meal a day carnivore diet. The guy than started the diet curses and yells and I didn't like him at first but he actually really knows his stuff, in my opinion. Super legit.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on December 10, 2018, 11:03:15 AM
Quote from: hope794 on December 06, 2018, 06:46:52 PM
what i mean is that you have to measure plaque reduction with an ultrasound. That's the only way to know if it is really bigger, smaller, or it is the same. I think that this would be the correct way to make science.

I agree completely...  Any ideas how to get my hands on a ultrasound machine?
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on December 25, 2018, 12:32:02 PM
Fell "off the wagon" and out of ketosis for a week or so.  I think it was a bad keto bread recipe which knocked me out both times I ate it.  I am sure the Christmas drinks, even though they were "keto friendly" also didn't help.  I think the stress alcohol puts on the liver causes a reduction in ketone production.

Anyway, it was good for one reason.  I now have more information. 

I can say for a fact that the pain and uncomfortable feeling in my penis returned.

When I got back into ketosis, most of the pain and tingling went away again. 

Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on January 20, 2019, 12:21:17 PM
Hey Birdman,

How are you buddy? How is your Keto adventure going? I just read it all over again, and I'm very curious to which point you have arrived!

I've been on keto for only 4 days and can already relate to a lot of changes you describe... I'm cautious but so enthusiastic!!

Tell us more when you want :-)

G
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: mikes on January 24, 2019, 04:22:47 PM
Hello everybody,

all this info on keto and IF is really helpful for all sufferers. I have had peyronie's for 4 years now but I thought I had it stabilized. However, during an ultrasound examination my urologist over-pressed a calcified plaque and caused pain and inflammation in the area. So maybe I am back on the acute phase or maybe not but I am trying to prevent a plaque from forming, taking pentox 2x daily, serrapeptase and voltaren to fight inflammation. I also started on intermittent fasting and a keto diet, keeping carbs at a minimum. This might be helpful but it might be placebo as I have only started 5 days ago. Would you think keto and IF to be appropriate to calm down recent injury and inflammation? As cheese is considered an inflammatory food would you think it fits a keto diet for me? Would you think there would be a better strategy for me to prevent plaque formation rather than a keto/IF regimen?

Thanks

ps James, I thought that this is relevant to this thread, if you think otherwise then move it elsewhere.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: popopo on January 25, 2019, 05:45:00 AM
Quick question regarding pentox and intermittent fasting. Does taking medication (like pentox) break your fast or not? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: One Op on January 27, 2019, 07:49:38 PM
Hi Guys
With the keto diet with all the evidence and personal collective experiences of so many i think its the way to go. Especially if you are able to do more research re mitochondrial dysfunction in the TA of the penis being found commonly in cross section and samples taken of peyronies patients. And Keto and becoming fat adapted is all about using a different source of fuel to get those mitochondria working again ( as far as im aware).


My point i wanted to make is if your a high intensity athlete ie high intensity on and off for 6 hrs of activity and then high intensity power lifting sessions too / how could you incorporate keto into your commitments and also not lose weight and strength. Im sure they will be hacks and ways to do this  / but being 20 i haven't had the chance to undergo the experience and learn for myself. Would there be anyone who could give some pointers and science on this?


Thanks so much
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: diehardpatriot on January 27, 2019, 09:14:05 PM
One op. As a high intensity athlete (and I mean high intensity, like maybe a. High school athletes with intense practices everyday of the week) you can get away with a few more carbohydrates (and probably should eat slightly more). I'd say for high high intensity athletes either incorporate slightly more protein (protein is turned into glucose through gluconeogensis) or more carbs. Unless you are Olympic or college level and always doing high intensity workouts adding more fat into the diet should and will suffice. Go on YouTube and do research on keto diet. I've watched hours of videos and have tailored the diet to meet my fitness goals of gaining muscle.
Title: Keto Weight Gain
Post by: Tony52 on January 30, 2019, 06:53:51 PM
Has anyone gained weight on the Keto Diet?
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on January 31, 2019, 06:17:44 AM
Hey Tony, I have now gained weight back to pre keto, but it seems to be mostly muscle.

After a year and a half or longer now, my body needs VERY little to gain muscle or even put on fat, which is great. I just eat veggies and meat and am full and energized. At first, I lost a lot of weight, as I think my body had not yet adapted and had quite a fuel deficit.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Crooked_Stick on January 31, 2019, 11:57:42 AM
I started at 188 Lbs and dropped to 161 Lbs within 6 months. After a total of 9 months I'm back up to 168. Lost almost all of the fat around my middle. So yea I'm putting weight back on just not fat.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Tony52 on January 31, 2019, 07:34:46 PM
I've only been on Keto for 3 weeks and have gained 3 pounds.  The opposite effect than I was looking for. 
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: skunkworks on January 31, 2019, 08:48:00 PM
As odd as this may sound, I think a tape measure is a better tool for this than a scale. Measure your waistline.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on February 01, 2019, 05:22:01 AM
So...been a while...  But I have learned a lot.

For the Keto part, I have been experimenting with getting well into Ketosis for a few days (where blood ketone levels are 1.2 or more) and then trying different foods to see what kicks me out, and what does not.  I have also been testing on eating things now completely non-keto and getting completely out of ketosis and see how long it takes (and how it feels) to get back in.

I find now that I can enjoy a "cheat meal" or even a "cheat weekend" and then it takes me max about 20 hours (depending if I follow it up with a complete fast) to get back to my body making ketones where it registers on the keto-mojo (i.e. 0.1, 0.2) and then about 8 more hours to be above 0.5 (usually in the range of 0.8).  If I want to get back as fast as possible, I fast and this usually gets me completely back into ketosis in a day or so.  But, I also feel not the best as my body is going through the transition again without any new calories.  If I want to feel the best, I eat very keto friendly food, limit it, but at least give my body some fat, light protein, try to have 0 carbs (i.e. really make this a carb fast)...  Then I feel great and still back into ketosis rather quickly.

Unfortunately, I have found that dairy (heavy cream) very much kicks me out of ketosis, and even cheese does to a moderate level, but butter seems to be ok.  So, I have reduced my diet and recipes to no pure dairy, very limited cheese, but still allowing butter.  But I switch a lot to Ghee now...

I have lost 5 kilo and I often get comments that it is very noticeable.  The funny thing is I have also been working out quite hard and am in better shape than I have been in a while and the combination makes my GF happy...me too actually as I feel amazing and look the best I have ever looked.

It also helps that all my friends know I am on a keto diet and even several are joining in as they could rapidly see the effects.

As for my Peyronies Disease, it is not getting worse, but I would say that the improvement is slower than in the beginning.  I sometimes have pain, but this seems to be more when I tried some different foods and fell out of ketosis.  When I am in ketosis, the pain is very limited (only sometimes during sex with strong erections).  I still have the blockage and the limitation of blood to the last 1/4 of my penis which also take a mental toll, but that is more an issue with support from my GF...  The lumps seem to be smaller, but again, this seems to fluctuate...

I am continuing the research and monitoring the progress.

Cheers and nice weekend!

Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Bent Ding Dong on February 23, 2019, 11:54:00 PM
I've been on keto for 2 months now, lost fat, was 20% body fat now about 15%, haven't noticed any improvements yet to peyronie's or do I need to be lower in fat to stimulate autophagy?  Struggling to put muscle on but that's always been the case for me. I've been strict with it, zero sugar, only low carb veggies and meat. Haven't tried fasting as I'm too skinny as it is? Also taking alcar 2000mg each day and natural vitamin e.

How long did it take for others to start see improvements when on keto? Was there a level of body fat that you got down to where things started to improve with peyronie's?
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: TonySa on February 25, 2019, 01:49:15 PM
I've been on keto for over a year and there are many other medical benefits.  Here, I read folks quite excited about it w improvements in the health of their penis, but nothing yet in actually decreasing the degree of curve due to peyronies.  If anyone has experienced that, it would be great to hear details!
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: suicidecomingsoon on February 25, 2019, 02:45:04 PM
Quote from: TonySa on February 25, 2019, 01:49:15 PM
I've been on ketofor over a year and there are many other medical benefits.  Here, I read folks quite excited about it w improvements in the health of their penis, but nothing yet in actually decreasing the degree of curve due to peyronies.  If anyone has experienced that, it would be great to hear details!
Believe that keto can cure peyronies, reduce the curvature or the erectile dysfunction is pretty ridiculous
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Bent Ding Dong on February 26, 2019, 04:57:33 AM
I believe those who say they have improved. It would be interesting to know how bad the peyronie's was on those that improved. Did they have calcified scars, did they have to fast first to see any results?
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on February 26, 2019, 05:43:43 AM
Suicidecomingsoon, considering a 2013 study showed that men who lowered their blood sugar also had improvements in Peyronie's, your statement is simply ignorant. A ketogenic diet has been clearly demonstrated to cure type 2 diabetes and even type 1 in some cases. Considering all of the science (please read my entire document and educate yourself), we have very good reason to suspect keto, low carb, or fasting can help. Every single piece of science points us in this direction.

Does it mean it can CURE the disease? Well, what can "cure" the disease? Can anything?

My penis does not bend after sex anymore. I can have sex 3 times in a row with no pain and no bending. Part of this is from traction, but I never had this prior to keto. I am completely fat adapted, undoubtedly, and my diet is flawless. My erections are the best they have been in my entire life.

Keto and healthy eating is absolutely critical for any fibrotic disease. There is no guarantee you will cure anything with diet, but that doesn't mean it is effective if not the only true way to prevent a disease.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Bent Ding Dong on February 26, 2019, 06:41:08 AM
NeoV, can I ask what is your body fat percentage and how you can know if autophagy is happening?
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on February 26, 2019, 06:50:02 AM
My bodyfat % is on the lower side but I have not measured it. My goal is not autophagy at all. My goal is to get glucose out of my system so my mitochondria can properly oxidize fats and increase endogenous antioxidants, to not activate the wnt pathway, avoid rises in tgf-beta, avoid high intra-cellular calcium, inhibit HDAC, and lower ROS. I want insulin resistance gone and my mitochondria working properly.

My scars are softer than pre-insulin resistance, that is an obvious fact. My penis is also very straight, and I have not had bending in my penis for ages, despite having sex many times in a row. I am very very thankful for this.

Although I have no way to know that autophagy is happening, a ketogenic or low carb diet does enhance autophagy. Futhermore, beta-hydroxybyutarate does inhibit HDAC and TGF-beta and I can tell I am in ketosis due to a taste in my mouth after a fatty, low carb, moderate to low protein meal.

I eat one meal at noon, which consists of broccoli soaked in olive oil, a bit of meat, and mushrooms. An hour or so later I can taste the ketones and feel absolutely amazing. I have one more meal at about 7pm or so. Once in a while I snack but not too often.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Werther on February 26, 2019, 08:24:57 AM
Quote from: NeoV on February 26, 2019, 06:50:02 AM

My scars are softer than pre-insulin resistance

Your scars are still there though. This contradicts the claim that keto diet cures peyronie's.

I think that this is what some people are trying to state here: you might reduce your levels of inflammation by following a keto diet but you won't achieve fibrosis' reversal (the main goal).

As a matter of fact  I couldn't find any photo of dicks straightened after following this regimen. There's no evidence so far.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on February 26, 2019, 09:05:50 AM
Werther, there is no single treatment that "cures" Peyronie's. Take a second and think this through.

There is a study clearly showing that Peyronie's improved or reversed when undiagnosed diabetics reduced their blood sugar. What else needs to be said? Not a single person has said that Peyronie's can be cured with keto. In the same way, not a singe person has said that xiaflex or pentox can "cure" Peyronie's.

Keto has CLEARLY been shown to improve markers of vascular health, reduce inflammation, and cure diabetes. So, given that erectile dysfunction's MAIN cause is insulin resistance, what does that mean? It means you are simply not reading the literature.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Whyisthishappening on February 26, 2019, 03:46:52 PM
i believe  i am at my best  when on a combination of IF paleo,clean eating and partly pescatarian,eat meat only two meals per week max three
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Bent Ding Dong on February 27, 2019, 05:18:34 AM
NeoV, I think your right about high glucose and it's effect on peyronie's. I was really skinny for many years and mildly suffering peyronie's when I was fed up with being so skinny that I stated to eat 6 high carb, hi fat and protein meals plus a cup of sugar a day for about 6 weeks. In that time my body fat increased dramatically and I started to get all kinds of problems and it was at this time I noticed a large lump in the penis plus worsening of peyronie's symptoms. I've lost most of the fat being on keto but the lump still remains.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on February 27, 2019, 06:34:59 AM
I have read in studies that men with Peyronie's tend to be thin and frail (same as me, my dad, diehardpatriot).

The research also clearly shows that it's the thin men with diabetes that suffer the worst rates of cancer, heart disease, and other issues. Getting fat is actually the "correct" response to insulin resistance. Obviously there are overweight men with Peyronie's, but it's all very interesting.

New research is describing how hyperglycemia leads to lower muscle mass.
https://insight.jci.org/articles/view/124952

Furthermore, ketones are proving to be muscle sparing.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Werther on February 27, 2019, 06:06:43 PM
Quote from: NeoV on February 26, 2019, 09:05:50 AM
Keto has CLEARLY been shown to improve markers of vascular health, reduce inflammation, and cure diabetes. So, given that erectile dysfunction's MAIN cause is insulin resistance, what does that mean? It means you are simply not reading the literature.

The literature is simply not unanimous on this subject like you're trying to claim. According to some literature for example "long-term KD causes dyslipidemia, a pro-inflammatory state, signs of hepatic steatosis, glucose intolerance and a reduction in beta and alpha cell mass, but no weight loss. This indicates that long-term high-fat, low-carbohydrate ketogenic diets lead to features that are also associated with the metabolic syndrome and an increased risk for type 2 diabetes in humans" (source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259626939_Long-term_ketogenic_diet_causes_glucose_intolerance_and_reduced_-_and_-cell_mass_but_no_weight_loss_in_mice).

This is the exact contrary of what you're saying about what prolonged ketogenic diets should do.

And by the way I was only saying that I couldn't find any claim about keto being effective for reversing fibrosis and you actually didn't contradict this since you stated by yourself that you still have "scars" on your dick.

Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on February 27, 2019, 07:21:46 PM
That study on mice shows the opposite of what keto does in humans. I've been aware of it for a long time. Long term studies on humans show improvements in both IR and blood markers.

You are not reading enough. But I guess that's my fault for not making it clear. Let me post the research again after work so it is plain and clear. However, do see the link on ketogenic diets (the google sheets) in my document.

In my document, I also link a 2019 study on humans showing improved blood markers for vascular health (trig to HDL ratio), with even better results the lower carb they went. There is much more, however. Also, keto causes "physiological insulin resistance," which should not be confused with the IR we are talking about.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on March 28, 2019, 11:04:00 AM
Another short update...with good and bad news.

With some extended travel for business to India, China, Germany, Canada, and the US, I basically took off a month for my diet as I needed to be social with customers.  I also wanted to see what the affect of going back to a "healthy" American diet would be (avoided sugar, most bread, but was not strict when it came to some bread for India, rice for China, and alcohol).  Was definitely out of Ketosis verified by blood samples.

I can for sure say that the pain in my penis during erection came back, to the point again where nocturnal erections would wake me up again in pain.  Sex was almost impossible...  When I went back into Ketosis, the pain resided. 

So, at least for me, Ketosis helps with one aspect of this disease.

But, I have the feeling it is getting worse as one of the lumps is getting bigger and I have noticed another section of my penis no longer fills with blood during erections...  This of course is a big disappointing hit to the mental side of things.

Am now looking into stem cell treatment in Switzerland...  On that front, I am also now incorporating bi-weekly extended water fasts in (i.e. 72 hours)...to try and help with Autophagy and natural stem cell regeneration...

Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: TonySa on March 28, 2019, 11:50:33 AM
Hi Birdman,
Do you have the money to throw at stem cell treatments?  Still, no evidence - even anecdotal - that it helps treat peyronies.  Are you doing VED/Traction/Pentox/PDE5i along with keto (great anti-inflammatory treatment, but needs to be paired with other modalities)?
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on March 29, 2019, 07:17:14 AM
Actually...did a lot of research and searching last night and am now off the stem cell train.  Maybe was just so frustrated that I am grasping at straws...

Will continue to keep with the fasting/IF/Keto regime and add back in VED.  Was on Pentox but had a severe allergic reaction that covered my entire body with a horrible rash...

BTW...now at 68 hours of a water fast and it is surprising how good, awake, and energized I feel with almost no hunger...  Crazy...
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on April 05, 2019, 02:49:38 PM
Hey guys,

@Neo: I've been binge watching nutritional science videos + reading a whole bunch of studies for the last 2 months: I now understand everything you say and I'm 100% on the same side: the root cause of Peyronies Disease, as for a crazy number of modern disease, is very likely to be insulin resistance, which keto + fasting can cure for as long as they are maintained. I will make a big post in the next few weeks with my keto + fasting journal; thanks again for putting me on that path bro.

@Birdman: I'm glad to read from you, and to see that you have clearly identified that keto is doing you good. Even if you're Peyronies Disease is not over yet, that is very very encourageing material! Keep us up to date, and be well ;-)
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: skunkworks on April 05, 2019, 10:29:32 PM
Personally I think keto and intermittent fasting will only be effective as maintenance or prevention. Multi-day fasting is what does the real work once you're actually a Peyronie's sufferer.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Bent Ding Dong on April 06, 2019, 09:15:27 PM
I really don't know how you guys can fast so often and not fade away to nothing or have energy to last through the day? I've been on keto for 3 months now and have lost so much weight that I am built like a rake! I was on just meats, low carb vegies, mushrooms and cheese. I've been fatigued the entire time and have increased portion sizes and that didn't help the fatigue. I increased the cheese and meats with every meal and that didn't help fatigue so I added sweet potato with every meal and would now be out of ketosis but that also didn't help. So today I had a big bowl of oats and the fatigue is gone and I have energy for the first time in months.

What to do? Are there some people out there who just don't respond to keto? If I keep going with keto I will die of weight loss. Is there such thing as cheat days or carb loading days on keto?
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: skunkworks on April 06, 2019, 10:12:39 PM
Did you ever actually check if you were in ketosis? Ongoing tiredness tends to happen to people who are actually just dipping in and out of ketosis the whole time and never get fat adapted.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on April 07, 2019, 04:13:25 AM
Yep, after 3 months of ketosis, I confirm+++ what Skunkworks is saying: you absolutely have to control your blood ketones mate, if not chances are you're wandering in the awful "grey zone" between ketosis and glycolisis and feel like sh*t all the time...

Moreover, keto-adaptation has not been easy for me either, and I'm not even sure I'm now fully fat-adapted. Dom d'Agostino, PhD and recognized expert on the subject, talks about "3 to 6 months rather than 2 to 4 months in order to be fully fat-adapted" (see this AWESOME interview here if you're patient: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keSoSyu9m7c&t=7960s). But trust me, when it happens, being in full and functionnal ketosis is a bliss you couldn't even suspect.

Last thing: yes, you can cycle carbs (check "targeted keto diet" and "cyclical keto diet"), but it's absolutely NOT recommended if you're looking for the medical benefits of the diet, and anyway not before you're 100,000000% fat-adapted.

Cheers,

G
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Bent Ding Dong on April 07, 2019, 08:38:49 AM
I didn't check if I was in actual ketosis to be honest but I was on strictly on less than 30 grams a day of carbs and kept it that way for months. I also tried full carnivore (just red meat) but extreme fatigue set in and I had to stop.

I was also getting weaker every time I tried to lift weights and exercise was really hard to do. I forgot to mention that I would go through a bottle of olive oil each week too so I was getting plenty of fats plus meat and cheese, lots of cheese.

At this stage, I am that thin that I look like a junkie so the only way I know to put weight on is to add some more carbs as I can't see me putting any weight back on by sticking to the diet.

I will try it again once I have put some weight back on.

Gabriel, I watched the vid, cheers. I think fasting will kill me right now as I am dangerously thin.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: TonySa on April 07, 2019, 09:51:02 AM
When you wish to stop weight loss you add carbs back in until you stabilize and then stay at that carb level each day.  It's not the same for everyone.  Best to not focus on refined carbs.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: skunkworks on April 07, 2019, 10:41:39 AM
Quote from: Bent Ding Dong on April 07, 2019, 08:38:49 AMI also tried full carnivore (just red meat) but extreme fatigue set in and I had to stop.

When you did this what cuts of meat were you eating?
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on April 07, 2019, 10:35:35 PM
It took me at least 3 months to be adapted and not feel a kind of struggle within my body. Then you simply stop needing to eat, really at all. The way I got past the transition was just eating a lot, and I mean a lot, of veggies and meat. That probably wasn't the best choice but it worked, considering how bad my symptoms of IR were. Now I am weaning myself OFF meat in order to go lower insulin. I really just eat veggies, coconut oil, and avocados etc now, with a bit of fish or nuts. Nuts are also okay on keto, despite the carb count. Peanuts are lower insulin triggering than meat. The carb count is not the end all. Simply eat a bag of nuts daily.

The other thing to keep in mind is that salt is really key, and even eating salt directly in place of carbs can snap you into a good feeling state. The brain's carb craving mechanism is somehow intertwined with the salt craving mechanism, and we literally cannot tell the difference between carb cravings and salt cravings. Even if you think you got enough salt, sometimes just eating it directly can fix you completely. For example, I may eat two avocados, salted. But after if I don't quite feel right I'll simply eat more salt and boom, I'm fixed for the entire day.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on April 08, 2019, 03:19:55 AM
@Bent Ding Dong

You really need the fat to get the energy benefit. What other fats are you eating other than the bottle of olive oil per week? 
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on April 08, 2019, 03:55:06 AM
Hey Bent Ding Dong,

I feel you mate: ketosis is a long, mysterious and individualized process, and personnally even after 3 months in I still don't understand why I feel this way or this way sometimes. If it can help you, from the (whole bunch of) knowledge I gathered about the metabolic and biochemical processes of the keto diet, I don't see how it could ever be "not suitable" for this or this individual. I do not know why it's so hard on you though, but here are two things that I would have liked to understand sooner:
- At first, going below 30g of carbs is not enough at all; I started entering real and beneficial ketosis (again, buy a keto mojo bro, really!) when I went under 10g total carbs/day, with lowish protein, low dairy (which for some reason tends to mess GI tract and overall feeling for me) and a huge proportion of fat (+ a good multivitamin to compensate the lack of veggies). Now, after 1-2 months of this regimen, I can add much more veggies or nuts and stay in strong ketosis (2-2,5 mmol/L).

- Even if it's recommended +++, do NOT implement IF when you feel your metabolism is under some serious stress, fatigue or general lack of well-being. This not so for nutritional reasons (you're not properly lacking of nutrients), but more, I suspect, from psychological reasons (cutting carbs = huge inconscious/somatic stress, so you'll want to compensate by adding more food more often in order to avoid extreme fatigue/anxiety spurs like I had).

Anyway, if indeed you feel too skinny and exhausted, try taking a break and then starting keto again in another fashion (I highly recommend you Dr Bozworth + Dr Berg's videos in order to fully understand what going on and how you should handle it).


@Neo: God mate it's a relief to read that: I'm feeling too that I'm still struggling with my metabolism sometimes, and this has been worrying me a lot as I thought I should have been quite fully fat-adapted by now... Moreover, I can confirm for the confusion between sugar/salt cravings (theoretically at least, as I read somewhere, but never experienced it personnally... I'll try your technique Neo!).

PS: I just remembered a "bad" news: on my pre-keto blood check, my fasted insulin was already very low (like 2-3): does that mean IR wouldn't be the root cause of my Peyronie's? Grrrrr it's so frustrating to be still inflammatory after 18+ months...
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Bent Ding Dong on April 08, 2019, 05:59:41 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys.

@skunkworks, When I tried carnivore, I was eating 2 big fat rib eye steaks with lots of marbling and 500 grams of mince in a day. The first day I was as fatigued as I had ever been, I was pretty much on the lounge all day (lucky it was a Saturday). I kept going on the Sunday and although I felt slightly better, I was still way too fatigued and I had to got to work the next day so I had to scrap the carnivore and go back to keto on the Monday. This was a month or so ago. If I didn't work, this would be so much easier to do as I could ride it out and just lay down when I need to.

@birdman73, I was eating around 2 kilos of cheese a week. Also had olive oil, fish oil, lots of salmon, rib eye steaks so plenty of fat. Was eating big portions. I read that lipase helps to digest fats, maybe I'll try that?

@Gabriel, thanks for the tips.



Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Bent Ding Dong on April 08, 2019, 06:24:20 AM
This video has given me inspiration to try carnivore again at some stage:  https://youtu.be/q9wdYQfQpow?t=767

Dude is 52 and holds a world record for indoor rowing and only eats meat.

I need to put on some weight first before trying again and also wait until I can take a week off work so that the switch to fats can take place while I ride out the fatigue.

Only other downside is the cost of all the meat. It's not cheap, especially in Aus.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on April 08, 2019, 06:34:17 AM
Gabriel,

I strongly think there is more to the story than just hyperinsulinemia and high blood sugar, but I also think we are 100% on the right track and doing the right thing. I suspect it comes down to mitochondria again, or simply the genes that have been identified (wnt), or other glucose related pathways. I'll be looking into this in more detail again later this week and forward. I should also be more active here as well (for a few private reasons), so I look forward to it!
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on April 09, 2019, 04:49:00 AM
@Bent - just my $0.02 as I certainly am not an expert nor completely know your situation...

For me I have to be very careful with dairy, and this includes cheese.  So, maybe the cheese is actually kicking you out of ketosis, which then means your body isn't actually using the fat you are eating for energy, so then your are drained.

I strongly suggest getting a Keto-Mojo and doing some measurements to be sure you are in ketosis.

Then, I would also suggest trying to get more fat without so much protein. I read something recently (or maybe it was a YouTube video) about eating a lot of protein (meat) to help with muscle gain but you also then add to consume even more fat to keep you in ketosis...

Also, I suggest varying your fat sources to the many others...like avocados, butter, ghee, coconut oil, MCT oil, macadamia nuts, etc...  Also more veggies especially dark green veggies... 

I eat a huge baby spinach and salad greens salad with tomatoes, avocado, hard boiled eggs, tuna, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, hemp hearts, with lots of salt and pepper and MCT, olive, Pumpkin, and avocado oil and apple cider vinegar once a day, for lunch or dinner.  So yummy, and filling....
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Bent Ding Dong on April 09, 2019, 08:12:23 AM
@birdman73, thanks for your suggestions. I will have to order a Keto Mojo to see what's really going on and refine my diet based on this. I don't tolerate milk at all but seem to tolerate cheese OK but maybe I just think I can tolerate it because I don't notice any bloating symptoms from it.

OK. I was also having macadamia oil daily but not as much as olive oil.

Doesn't eating those size portions of veggies throw you out of ketosis?
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: TonySa on April 09, 2019, 02:48:53 PM
I'd always add a physical therapy and a nightly PDE5i, and maybe even pentox to keto, IF and/or fasting.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: birdman73 on April 10, 2019, 03:28:11 AM
@Bent I thought that too about veggies but I think if you are careful with which veggies you eat, you are ok. 

I avoid or limit ,,colorful" veggies like peppers and carrots....  But I can eat the dark green stuff like crazy and still am in ketosis.  Also cauliflower...  Of course all covered with butter, coconut oil, salt, pepper, etc...

As for cheese...I also can ,,tolerate" it as it also doesn't bloat me, but when I really checked my blood, my ketone levels went low after consuming too much cheese...  But cooked cheese like a keto pizza doesn't seem to kick me out...  Go figure...

Another reason why a meter like keto-mojo is important.  To really see what foods do to you....

On another side note but back to the Peyronies Disease topic, I noticed even though I was following strict keto and was having good numbers, and doing IF and fasting even more than 24 hours...my Peyronies Disease was flaring up and was getting painful again.  Then I realized that the new protein powder I was using post workouts was Collagen protein...  While good for keto, since Peyronies Disease is thought to be a build-up of collagen, I stopped taking it and within two days the pain has reduced and the lumps are back down again...
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on April 10, 2019, 03:31:44 AM
Hey Neo, I too feel we're doing the right thing while going keto and IF; there may be something else crucial to add, but at least this is a certitude that comes from both the head and the body. Don't apologize for having a private life; you already have done and still do a great lot for this forum and all the persons here (by the way, I read your document a few days ago; I won't discuss it here but it's just awesome), so thanks a lot man.

@Birdman, Bent: there are contradictory (all legit) opinions about too much protein triggering or not glucose production from amino acids (gluconeogenesis) and thus kicking you out of keto. Personnally, at the beginning of keto, I've clearly experienced that a high protein diet would turn off ketosis (and confirmed it with my ketonemeter); but now, I can actually eat a high protein meal (with lots of fat including MCT oil too) and stay around 2 -2,5 mmol/L, which is great. And for me, too much cheese can be a huge problem for my gut but does not seem to affect my ketones production! So Bent, just do your own experiment on yourself, with a keto mojo :-D!

Last but not least, the veggies. At first, I had the impression that more than 200g avocado/brocolis/spinach per day would slow down my keto-adaptation, so I cut them off and took a good multivitamin to try to compensate. But after 1,5 months in or so, I realized I felt MUCH better with daily brocolis/avocado, so I added back 200-300g of them every day, and they have not prevented me from striking high ketones scores ever since. So, I'd say, go easy on the veggies the first months, then crawl them back up while measuring your ketones until you find your sweet spot.

But damn, all this stuff around the carnivore diet is now tempting me too right now... I'll may try that in a few weeks!

Cheers guy, and Bent Ding Dong take courage in your path of regaining weight and regoing keto :-)!


Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on April 10, 2019, 03:36:55 AM
PS: just saw Birdman's last message. I totally agree with you man.

One important point about protein (whey) powder: I thought it was totally harmless during one year of Peyronies Disease (it even has already been discussed here somewhere), but, after going keto, I discovered and experimented several times that my pain/inflammation would flare up very little after drinking my whey isolate, and/or very little after taking L-citrullin (which contains a lot of leucin, at least the brand I used to do). But maybe collagen powder has other properties??

So, I'm beginning to highly suspect anything dramatically increasing M-tor (anabolic pro-inflammatory pathway), such as whey and particularly leucin, to increase pain and inflammation in our junks. This flare up does not happen when I eat a regular medium-high protein post-workout meal though; maybe because the protein is mixed to a lot of fat and does not act so brutally on insulin and M-tor levels. Anyway, it's interesting to note that everything we are naturally trying to activate with regards to calming the pain and reversing fibrosis converges to the AMPK pathway (the opposite of M-tor: it's catabolic, anti-inflammatory, and triggers autophagy).

But sorry to hijack the thread, we may keep that for another discussion.

Cheers guys
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on April 10, 2019, 06:09:03 AM
Whey and BCAAs do cause a major insulin spike and lead to insulin resistance. Interestingly, I got Peyronie's when I was taking three scoops of whey a day and sipping on BCAAs (also drinking beer and eating bread, pasta, etc to gain weight.)

I am now doing OMAD (one meal a day) keto style, so fasting 23 hours a day. My penis is very very elastic and I can feel an obvious difference from before fasting. Keto alone certainly achieves this, but there are degrees, it seems. If I eat therapeutic keto, or go heavy on higher carb things like nuts, for example. Fasting really gets my hands, feet, and penis feeling "real" and alive, as odd as that sounds. To be clear, I now have normal sensation in my body after being keto for two years now, but I still can feel it get even BETTER when I fast.

That said, I have just started OMAD or IF and my body is not used to it. I can feel it adjusting and I am very curious how this works out! I do think that fasting is the only logical conclusion after keto, but I think one should do it keto or low GI if doing IF or OMAD.

My single meal was one broccoli stalk raw with four eggs in a lot of coconut oil. I have been training while fasted as well and it feels just fine.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Bent Ding Dong on April 10, 2019, 08:00:24 AM
@birdman73, I was on the low carb veggies only for 3 months, then got too fatigued and lost so much weight and added in some sweet potato. To be honest, I have some kind of inflammatory bowel condition and grains, milk and alcohol trigger the inflammation so I avoided them. When on keto I still have bloating but it's minor but I want no bloating at all and suspect that I have a leaky gut and any kind of plant fibers keep irritating the stomach hence why I can't put on any muscle so this is why I was keen to try out carnivore to see if it will heal the gut.

That's strange about the cheese. I know that when I have cheese on a pizza I get really thirsty and feel like something acidic afterwards.

@Gabriel, so too much protein is also no good? I wonder how that Shawn Baker can eat 2kgs (4.4lbs) of red meat a day and be fine? Is it because of the zero carbs forcing the ketones?

Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: JohnnyDoe on April 10, 2019, 08:25:04 AM
I am probably not on Keto, not measuring, but I have moved to eating low-carb in a 6-7 hours / day since last month after reading everything here.
I see quite significant improvements at the moment: pain/inflammation reduction, less curve, better erection quality. Hard to say what other factors have had impact on this, but just going by what I have done. Had some numbness last week, but that has resolved itself in a few days.
Therefore, so far so good. Only a bit of weight loss - I am also quite skinny so I do not like to lose weight.

This is what I am eating:

Brunch (12pm):
- 1 slice of bread
- 3 eggs, tomatoes, 3 strips bacon OR kaymak cream (Turkish store)

Snacks:
- Mostly strawberries/blueberries, occasional orange
- Nuts (macadamia, almonds, pecan, few cashews)
- Block of 85% dark chocolate

Dinner (6pm)
- about 4 spoons of rice
- Meat and vegetable mix with meat or fish - cooked with olive oil, salt, pepper, turmeric, cayenne
- Salad (tomato, cucumber, onion, avocado, olives)
- Dark green leaves

Drinks:
- Tea
- Coffee (max 2 times a week)
- Water (sometimes with lemon juice)

Avoiding things I was eating before:
- Soda, fruit juice, alcohol
- Many slices of bread, a lot of rice/pasta, cake, cookies, chips, sugar, jam, cereal, raisons
- Bananas, other fruits containing high levels of sugar
- Not drinking milk or eating too much cheese because of intolerance
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: TonySa on April 10, 2019, 09:55:13 AM
Johnnydoe, how would you quantify your improvement in curvature?
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: JohnnyDoe on April 10, 2019, 11:07:33 AM
@TonySa - good question, and I should have explained this a bit more not to give misinformation or false hopes.

Mar - Dec 2018, I only had mild Peyronies, about a 5° curvature to the left. I did not take it very serious to be honest.
Since Dec 2018, things started getting worse, constant inflammation and I developed a dent left-side below glans. This dent was very painful and also made this area weak, so the curvature increased to 15°+. But I have to say, my erections were also not as strong, maybe because of the pain. I believe that hot water and light manual traction in my case made inflammation worse / prolonged the process. I even got pain at the base.
I have described my change in eating habits in the previous post and since about a week ago I see improvements in pain, erection quality, the dent area is less weak and looks slightly less pronounced, the curvature is back to 5°.

I am not making pictures, but have been measuring throughout the process.
Other factors might be less-to-no masturbation and started icing a few weeks ago whenever I felt pain.
Will write an update if anything changes.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: pey ron on April 10, 2019, 04:05:17 PM
Quote from: NeoV on April 10, 2019, 06:09:03 AM
Whey and BCAAs do cause a major insulin spike

AFAIK BCAAs raise mTOR and cause premature aging...
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on April 13, 2019, 04:45:07 AM
BCAA do raise M-tor because of all the leucin (that's part of why we take them), but I had seen a lot of studies and serious videos or article explaining why they were totally safe and even healthy... Maybe for someone without insulin problems or strong catabolic needs? Anyway, I'm cut them off, so as whey, and feel 100000% better ever since without any loss in muscle mass or performance (also because I run on ketones which are much muscle-sparing).


Bent Ding Dong: I also happen to have sort of a leaky gut issue and more generalli GI tract and transit issues since at least my teenage, which recently turned into an unexplained inflammatory colitis that unexpectedly brought me 4 days to the hospital. That almost life-long issue has been 80% solved with probiotics (bought randomly on Amazon, they're unbelievable), keto diet with IF and some "foodstyle" adjustements (eating slowler, keeping cravings for nuts and cheese at bay).

As for protein, some reliable sources say too much will kick you out of ketosis, some other reliable sources say it won't. Personnally, it has already done so, and after 2 years of trying to build muscle mass while stuffing my mouth with moutains of protein, I can 100% positively tell you that I started to feel WAY much better and had absolutely 0 muscle loss after I cut my protein intake in like 1,5 or 2. The video you posted about this carnivore guy is terrific though... I absolutely have no idea about how a carnivore diet should metabolically and biochemically work, as I haven't investigated this field yet, but it's very interesting.

Neo, be careful buddy, I've found that forcingly implementing systematic OMAD had been very painful and counter-productive for me (spurs of weakness, anxiety and depressionish symptoms), even while 2 months in keto. Maybe you'll react better as you're long deep into this, but I just wanted to remind you to go easy if you feel any trouble! Oh and for you and anyone who wants to cut off the BCAA, I think I can now recommend something I'm testing this days: a shaker with potassium chloride (1 tsp), magnesium sulfate (1/2 tsp) and pink salt (2 tsp)... I've been sipping it for like 3-4 hard weightlifting sessions these weeks, and it felt really good (maybe because placebo? It's to early to tell, but it's cheap and tastes good so you can try too!).





Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Bent Ding Dong on April 13, 2019, 08:41:46 PM
@Gabriel: That's no good about the hospital stay and having to deal with leaky gut. I too have been through a lot with it and it's been ongoing for the last 20 years. I've had no luck with probiotics. Have tried just about every kind of probiotic there is. I've had the most luck with keto when it comes to reducing bloating and a product called Restore for Gut Health.

That Shawn Baker carnivore guy was on the Joe Rogan podcast talking about the carnivore diet back in 2017. I watched the whole thing and many things he mentioned caught my attention such as his testosterone levels went up and his libido increased on the carnivore diet as well as no more join pains. He put his Dad on it the diet too and his Dad's muscle mass increased without doing any exercise. He has a website called meatheals.com where there are literally hundreds of people who post their carnivore experiences and there are some very interesting stories on there.

I am still keen to try carnivore as I have some time off work coming up and hope to be fat adapted before I return.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on April 13, 2019, 11:29:27 PM
Thanks Gabriel.

I have been OMAD since Tuesday (now Sunday), and I am getting additional benefits in penis/hand/feet sensitivity, energy, and mood. I still can't quite believe it. I am seeing that "time without food" is the real key here for me, while also staying keto or low insulin.
Penis tip is sensitive and hands and feet are coming even more "online" compared to before, I am just stunned, even if it makes sense.
I do sometimes eat salt but otherwise I am not tired at all. If anything I have more energy when lifting weights fasted, which has been simply great.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: zipolite on July 25, 2019, 07:19:48 AM
Hey guys

It's been a while since I posted here and a year since the onset of my peyronies.

I am happy to report that my treatments are working. I have gone from a 35 degree curvature to around 15 degrees. Strangely, most of the change have happened over the last 4 to 6 weeks.

I stayed with the treatments noted on my signature line but dropped the suppliments about 4 months ago. I increased the amount of manual traction around the same and feel that has had the biggest impact on the curve.

I plan on maintaining my low carb diet as I believe that plays a big role in prevention. I also plan on continuing manual traction for penile health as per NeoV's recommendations in his videos

So patience is need but in my opinion this was a better option than meds or surgery.

Zipolite
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on August 01, 2019, 04:48:24 AM
Hey Zipo,

It's very nice to hear from you man! I'm really happy to see that you've got so good improvements. Congratulations!

After 7 months in, I now also believe that a keto diet + fasting lifestyle (I mean, more than the regular 18/6 IF) is the best way to prevent inflammation and unwanted cell proliferation. If only it could act as a cure for me, as it did for some fellow members (mostly JS and Skunkworks I think) !...

Anyway, keep on taking care of yourself, and see you man!


Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: PDTX on September 05, 2019, 09:00:43 AM
Hey guys, first post on this forum for me. I am 37 and have been suffering from Peyronies Disease for about 12 months. My disease presented with an extremely painful erection that I wrote off initially, but subsequent pain and a lump led me to see a urologist and confirm Peyronies Disease. I was told to wait and see and take vitamin E. A few months later I had another painful erection episode which created a hard mass that restricted blood flow to the head, very similar to what Birdman has described. 

I can also attest that the lumps feel like they change size and hardness from day to day, but have not been able to isolate what does that. What I can say is staying in ketosis does seem to keep the pain away for me, and the loss of body fat helps to offset some of the self esteem issues that come from our disease. I normally have high blood pressure and suffer from generalized anxiety disorder, both of which have been shown in studies to get worse with sugar consumption. High blood pressure has been shown to be a risk factor for Peyronie's in previous studies as well, so that might explain why we reduce our pain levels significantly while in ketosis.

I am also interested in intermittent fasting and will try the 16/8 method while upping fats during my window. Best of luck to everyone on here!
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Gabriel on September 05, 2019, 09:32:04 AM
Hey PDTX,

Welcome among us man. Glad to see that the ketogenic diet works for you, that is great news. You'll see that the longer you do it, the more you keep reaping more benefits months after months.

About IF, starting with 16/8 is a good idea; but when you feel it's OK for your body, try to creep it to 20/4, and then OMAD, while injecting some 3 days fasts here and there during the year: it makes a big, big difference regarding autophagy, inflammation lowering and tissue repairing.

If you're interested, you can do a lot of research about these topics that are now quite extensively studied and confirmed. You can begin with Dr Berg, Dr Bozworth or Dr Pelz videos on Youtube, then get deeper in the studies and articles if you like to.

Bye,

G
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: MacMathuna on June 27, 2020, 09:39:39 AM
Has keto actually helped anybody with peyronie's deformity? e.g. softening /size reduction of peyronie's plaques?

I believe my Peyronies Disease is 100% trauma induced (one distinct trauma event), and my loss of sensation is from nerve damage/ plaques blocking sensitive tissue.


I went keto for a few weeks and I really disliked it. I just don't feel up for totally changing my lifestyle if there's no real reason to think it will do anything for my Peyronies Disease symptoms and if it will take 3-6 months before it has any potential effect at all.

Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Shafted on June 27, 2020, 10:09:36 PM
Hi Mac,

I've had improvement and keto is one of the techniques I employ.  Peyronies is an inflammatory disease and a ketogenic diet helps to reduce inflammation so at the very least it may help slow its progression. Aside from the possible positive impact on Peyronies, I really like the way I feel on a ketogenic diet.  To be honest, I don't know that a few weeks is long enough to experiment with Keto.  We're you strict on the diet or half in half out?  What did your diet consist of?
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: MacMathuna on June 28, 2020, 02:17:49 PM
Hey, Shafted.

I totally hear that two weeks isn't enough. I was shooting for 3 months, but it just didn't feel worth it. Plus I was starting other modalities like traction and DMSO and it all just felt like too much.

That being said, I feel like I was pretty consistent for those 2 weeks.

Mostly chicken, salmon, leafy greens--a lot of spinach and kale, a lot of eggs, olive oil, coconut oil, butter, heavy cream, cheese, almond milk, avocado, tomato, broccoli, cauliflour, a lot of ginger/turmeric/black pepper tea for inflammation, flax seed, peanut-butter in moderation, garlic.
I very occasionally cheated and had a tortilla chip or two.

I was consistantly under 30g net carbs daily, which maybe isn't perfect? Maybe 20 would be better, but that just didn't feel managable.

I found it really difficult to get enough calories on Keto. I felt really lethargic most of the time. I lost probably ten lb in the two weeks that I did it, and I'm already naturally pretty skinny. Also, Keto is expensive :/
All in all, it just doesn't feel like a sustainable choice for me, but if there's a reasonable chance that it will help, I'd be willing to stick it out for a sixth month spell at some point.

I hear that keto helps to reduce inflammation, but why not just follow an anti-inflammatory diet. There's so many anti-inflammatory foods that you have to limit or wholesale cut out on keto e.g. onion, garlic, roots like turmeric and ginger. Plus there's foods that are high in anti-oxidants, which I think is also good for inflammation e.g. beets, chocolate, etc.
I'm just saying that there are ways of reducing inflammation that feel WAY more accessible to me.

I'm not trying to trash Keto, I'm just feeling skeptical. Open to trying it again if I feel like it would help. But it is just such a big lifestyle change that I don't think I could manage motivating myself to do it unless I had some real reason to believe it would help me more than if I just loaded up on turmeric and black pepper.

Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: Shafted on June 28, 2020, 09:36:00 PM
Hi Mac,

Keto is definitely not for everybody because we are all different.  I find I have significantly more energy and less brain fog when I'm in Ketosis.  Your list of foods looks good... If you were lethargic I'd say you're not consuming enough fat - this is probably the number one mistake people make.

I think Keto can be cost effective depending on what you buy.  If you're ballin on a budget you're probably not eating Ribeye every night for dinner. Maybe you throw in more ground beef for example.  The way I see it is this.... I can spend $100,000 extra on healthy delicious food throughout my life and not have health problems when I'm older or I can eat crap and spend the 100K on medical bills.  I choose the healthy delicious food!

If you try Keto in the future, I'd recommend getting keto strips to piss on.  These little suckers will tell you whether or not you are in ketosis.  Very handy when first starting out!

— Shafted

Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on June 28, 2020, 09:54:29 PM
If keto is hard for you (or carnivore), it generally means you need to do it because you're addicted to glucose. It took me months indeed!
As far as keto strips, they are mostly unreliable so go for a blood monitor such as Keto mojo. That said, you are not either in ketosis or not, this is not worth thinking about really. Think about insulin spiking foods (avoid them) and your body will do the rest.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: MacMathuna on June 29, 2020, 03:44:12 PM
My main issue isn't that it's hard from a physical point of view.
My lethargy was definitely because I just wasn't getting enough calories on keto.

My issue is that I'm skeptical that it will do anything at all regarding my peyronie's disease.
I don't really encounter people on these threads who actually attest that they had a reduction in penile deformity, softening of plaques, etc. BECAUSE of a ketogenic diet.

Neo, I hear that diet has helped you a lot, and I buy that, but I also think our cases of Peyronie's disease are incredibly dissimilar. From the posts of yours that I have read, your Peyronies Disease seems to be mostly genetic with no discrete trauma event, and seems to be very connected to other health issues that you have e.g. numbness in your hands and feet. I also thing you've mentioned never having a palpable plaque.
I, on the other hand, had a trauma event, with most of my symptoms presenting immediately after the trauma, and I have palpable plaques.
We've both experienced some loss of sensation/numbness, but my loss of sensation is distinctly located in the places where I can palpate plaques, and as such I suspect that it's caused by scars covering over more sensitive tissue.

All that is to say, I think that our peyronie's cases are super different, and what works for you may not work for many others. My first concern in treating my Peyronies Disease right now is reduction in plaque density, volume, etc. and I haven't encountered much evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that keto does a jot to help reduce penile scars.

I hope I haven't mischaracterized your condition, Neo. I'm just going on memory.

Anyway, I'm opened to be convinced, and I'd love to hear any accounts of improvement in plaque due to keto.

Shafted, I'm also curious what your diet looked like before getting on keto.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: TonySa on June 29, 2020, 10:50:47 PM
If there's an anti-inflammatory diet that works for you-go with it.  If not, there are other anti-inflammatory treatment strategies.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: NeoV on June 30, 2020, 09:43:38 AM
Fasting and keto is unique in ways that cannot be ignored. BHB itself blocks tfg-beta and HDAC which was proposed as a way to treat peyronie's in a paper. Insulin is just massive, regardless of if you had an injury or not. People on keto recover faster from surgeries (injuries), this is well recognized now.

For the record, my Peyronie's symptoms (dents) began at 18 or so. At that time, I could have thought it was an injury. Then at 24 I did have a minor kind of injury that made things get much worse. It wasn't until I was 27 that my feet and hands began to go numb. My father, who also has Peyronie's, did not notice hand numbness until he was much older, yet he got Peyronie's younger due to certain incidents he could have perceived as traumas. I bring up neuropathy in my videos because most men don't even notice that they have it.

Interestingly, I have a friend (and I know other guys) who bang up their dick during sex in terrible ways multiple times, claiming it "almost snapped, it hurt all week afterward" over the last 6 years or longer I have known them. Never once did they get any bending or deformity.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: MacMathuna on June 30, 2020, 10:05:40 AM
Thanks for the clarifications, Neo.

What is Bhb? Tfgb beta? Hdac?

Maybe I will try again at some point.
Title: Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
Post by: terrafirma13 on February 05, 2022, 11:46:37 PM
Fix the plaques blocking sensitive issue. Thats my problem too. In 2018 i had two rounds of Xiaflex and the sensation came back turbo charged but after a while i lost it.... my plaque got bigger and was intterfering with the nerves again...havent been able to solve it ever since...