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Peyronies Disease TREATMENT Discussion Boards => Developmental Drugs & Treatments => Topic started by: PPeroni on May 17, 2014, 11:19:03 AM

Title: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: PPeroni on May 17, 2014, 11:19:03 AM
Hey guys,

I found this article dated April 30, 2014. It is written by Dr. Virag - the inventor of the Virag technique . Basically it is about four injections of the patient own plasma with hyaluronic acid as biological support with local anesthesy. It is supposed to be a two month process. It has been tested on 13 men only so far. More test are planned. Have a look at the (poorly google translated) article :

" [...] That is why any new therapeutic innovation is considered. That we have presented the first results is to treat the condition early enough before the plates are too thick and calcified .

A new innovation to regenerate diseased tissue

It is innovative in that it seeks not only to fight against its harmful effects but also promotes regeneration of normal tunica .

Is used to clean the patient's plasma rich in regenerative cellular components : platelets and growth factors. This is what is called autologous cell therapy is already widely used in other areas : muscle or joint burns, skin defect , tendon disease .

The plasma thus injected into the lesion sites is capable of regenerating or destroys the diseased tissue . In the particular case of Peyronie 's disease that were made ​​thirteen volunteer patients , this is to inject a mixed their own biological carrier serum ( hyaluronic acid ) in the plates identified by ultrasound and course under local anesthesia.

As is known experimentally with hyaluronic acid, injected plasma activity keeps a fortnight , it was realized in the space of two months, four sessions for each patient.

Eleven of the thirteen patients have a satisfactory result

Many criteria have been designed to monitor : the main ones being the maintenance or return of sexual activity, the disappearance of the angulation caused by the curvature and erasure of ultrasound images .

Eleven of our thirteen patients have a satisfactory outcome with a mean follow up of nine months. This is a very encouraging start that pushed us, with the help of the firm that produces the special tubes necessary for the collection and centrifugation of blood, to undertake a study involving nine centers , five in France and four in abroad in order to confirm the potential of this new therapeutic approach to Peyronie 's disease .

It goes in the direction of the future of medicine : use own resources of the individual and open the road to tissue engineering. Recreating tissues and organs from ourselves".


I am actually going to Paris for work next month. I am trying to meet the Doctor. Let's see.

Apologies if this developmental treatment has been already reported. 

original article :
Maladie de Lapeyronie, ou l'érection molle : vers un traitement pour les tordus du pénis ! - le Plus (http://leplus.nouvelobs.com/contribution/1195955-maladie-de-lapeyronie-ou-l-erection-molle-vers-un-traitement-pour-les-tordus-du-penis.html)
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: NeoV on May 17, 2014, 11:24:47 AM
How is this different than PRP? aka Priapus Shot? Sounds great.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: PPeroni on May 17, 2014, 11:37:02 AM
Good day NeoV,

I do not know if there is a difference. I am quite new here. Anyone ?

For those who understand french or who simply want to see how the injections are made and the results. The Doc introduce the treatment with a PowerPoint presentation including descriptives slides:

http://www2.academie-chirurgie.fr/sean/?cle_seance=592
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: lgrace on May 17, 2014, 04:14:12 PM
Thank you, very interesting.

Several forum members are currently undergoing this type of treatment, mainly in the US (and one in Indonesia!) with at least a few reporting success.

What is particularly interesting here is

- the addition of hyaluronic acid, which allows the PRP to remain longer (2 weeks).
- the injection directly into the plaque, guided by echography (ultrasound)

I do not know if this is also done by other practitioners, namely in the US (Dr. Runels).

The Powerpoint presentation is interesting and reveals a few additional details: the 2 "failures" as he calls them were the 2 only patients with calcified plaques.

However, he claims that 10 had improvement in curvature (but one got worse) and all had reduction of the plaques (confirmed by echography).

He says the improvement usually appears after the second injection (and injections take place every 2 weeks).

All patients reported improvement in erections I believe.

He did not give details about the study, but he says that they will compare results between patients injected directly into the plaques (echography assisted) and others injected without echography guidance (not in the plaque I suppose).

It is good to know that a specialist unrelated to penis enlargement bull* is conducting a study on this treatment.

It is worthy to note that it is the company that sells the centrifugation tubes that finances the study... I hope it doesn´t play a role though.
And it is always depressing to see that such a study would only be financed if a company sees potential gain.



 
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on May 17, 2014, 05:38:46 PM
Some information in English:
: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD (http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1062-HYALURONIC%20ACID.aspx?activeIngredientId=1062&activeIngredientName=HYALURONIC%20ACID)
Hyaluronan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyaluronan)
Quote- the injection directly into the plaque
Not new, if possible, (needle can penetrate the plaques) the PRP in also injected to the plaques.
What I don't understand is how they are extracting the hyaluronic acid.
From webmed:
QuoteThe hyaluronic acid that is used as medicine is extracted from rooster combs or made by bacteria in the laboratory.
It is not clear for me if it is PRP with an other name, or hyaluronic acid is added to the PRP:
QuoteOn utilise pour ce faire le propre plasma du patient riche en éléments cellulaires régénérateurs : plaquettes et facteurs de croissance.
Sounds exactly like PRP
QuoteDans le cas particulier de la maladie de Lapeyronie ce que l'on a fait sur treize patients volontaires, c'est injecter leur propre sérum mélangé à un support biologique (l'acide hyaluronique) dans les plaques repérées par l'échographie et bien sûr sous anesthésie locale.
Is stating that the injected hyaluronic acid is from the patient itself.
No explanation on how they are extracting the hyaluronic acid.
Maybe my French is not as it was, but to me seems like PRP injections.

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: lgrace on May 17, 2014, 07:41:23 PM
it is PRP, of course. But hyaluronic acid is added, not extracted from the patient.
French is my mother tongue. But I am not a doctor, nor a chemist ;)
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on May 18, 2014, 12:19:53 AM
lgrace

So how you translate to English this sentence:
Quotec'est injecter leur propre sérum mélangé à un support biologique (l'acide hyaluronique)
As I have said, my French is not as it was in the past.

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: lgrace on May 18, 2014, 10:16:44 AM
"Dans le cas particulier de la maladie de Lapeyronie ce que l'on a fait sur treize patients volontaires, c'est injecter leur propre sérum mélangé à un support biologique (l'acide hyaluronique)"

= "In the particular case of Peyronie´s disease, what was done on 13 voluntary patients was to inject their own serum mixed with a biological support (hyaluronic acid) ..."

It does not specify the source of the hyaluronic acid, but I am pretty sure it would have been mentioned if it was also extracted from the patients.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: lgrace on May 18, 2014, 02:50:24 PM
loyalty, I will gladly translate the abstract for you. I am currently underway, but will be able to translate if you paste the abstract in your post. So far I have only seen an article in a newspaper (Nouvelobs) and the movie.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on May 18, 2014, 05:30:35 PM
loyalty

Try to copy the article to google translate.
Not perfect, but maybe enough to understand.

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Chef Chris on May 18, 2014, 05:31:36 PM
No mentioning of ved directly after the treatment or the weeks after?
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on May 18, 2014, 05:36:13 PM
No mention of VED from my understanding.
Hope lgrace can approve that.

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: loyalty on May 18, 2014, 07:33:43 PM
Thanks for offering to translate, Lgrace.  I am also going to see if the medical library where I work can get the entire article.  If so, the Methods and Materials section may be crucial.

Résumé
Plus de deux cents ans après sa description princeps par l'un des fondateurs de notre académie, la Maladie de Lapeyronie (LAP) reste assez méconnue et toujours dépourvue d'un traitement curateur efficace. Nombreux sont les traitements prometteurs proposés puis abandonnés. C'est avec humilité et espoir que nous vous présentons les premiers résultats d'un traitement novateur basé sur la régénération tissulaire autologue. Après un rapide état des lieux de la clinique et des concepts étiologiques actuels de LAP, nous expliquerons en quoi consiste le plasma enrichi en plaquettes (PRP) associé ou non à l'acide hyaluronique (HLA) et sa très large utilisation dans de nombreuses pathologies notamment cutanées, tendineuses, articulaires et ophtalmologiques. Depuis près de 4 ans nous utilisons le PRP dans diverses situations de troubles de l'érection et de LAP. C'est le résultat de notre expérience sur 13 patients porteurs de LAP et suivis de 3 à 36 mois que nous vous présentons.
La moyenne d'âge de cette courte série est de 57.5 ans (48 à 71). Huit patients n'ont pas d'étiologie reconnue, quatre invoquent la pratique d'injections intracaverneuses et un des interventions multiples sur la verge pour hypospadias. Dans 8 cas on relève une angulation > à 50°, et dans 5 cas un rétrécissement disharmonieux. Dans 7 cas l'activité sexuelle est gravement perturbée. Dans neuf cas c'est principalement l'albuginée dorsale qui est pathologique ; et pour les 4 autres la fibrose est disséminée sur le septum et/ou l'albuginée ventrale. Le traitement consiste en l'injection répétée (4 durant deux mois) de 4 à 8 ml de PRP+ HLA (kit Regenlab® prêt à l'emploi) dans les plaques préalablement repérées et mesurées à l'échographie. Chaque séance est pratiquée sous anesthésie locale par bloc pénien et les injections sont effectuées sous contrôle échographique. Le premier contrôle est effectué un mois après la 4°injection avec faculté de procéder à une cinquième séance suivant l'évolution. Le suivi est ensuite trimestriel la première année puis bisannuel. On ne déplore aucune complication en dehors d'un hématome important avant que les injections ne soient écho guidées. Neuf patients ont un recul = ou > à 3 mois avec une moyenne de 9,3 mois. L'angle de la courbure est < à 15° sauf dans un cas en cours où il s'est aggravé. L'activité sexuelle mesurée par l'Indice International de la fonction érectile (IIEF-5) est normalisée ou conservée dans tous les cas sauf un. Au total, onze des treize patients (dont 4 avec un recul =/ > 9 mois) enrôlés dans cette étude préliminaire ont vu une nette amélioration de leur état clinique sur le plan fonctionnel et sur le plan anatomique. Ces résultats encourageants demandent confirmation sur la durée et sur un plus grand nombre de cas. C'est pourquoi, une étude internationale impliquant neuf centres experts, dont quatre autres centres français sous l'égide de l'Association Française d'Urologie, va débuter incessamment.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: incautious on May 19, 2014, 07:36:04 AM
It appears that they may use the hyaluronic acid in place of the VED which does the same thing( at least in theory) in keeping the PRP localized. It is exciting in that they have gotten very similar results as the priapus shot in that there is a reduction in curvature and an improvement in ED. Hyaluronic acid is needed for wound repair, and by injecting PRP your body is tricked into thinking that there is a wound and works to heal the area. I've stated in that past that the theory of PRP is of sound medical science and that it does have the potential to repair damaged areas of the body even one's manhood.
A side note about the VED, since the priapus shot was initially developed as a way for male enhancement, the VED most likely served a dual purpose that is keeping the prp localized and working to increase size.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: lgrace on May 19, 2014, 01:51:52 PM
This is my unofficial translation.
Hope it will help.



More than 200 years since its description by one of the founders of our academy, Peyronies Disease remains rather unknown and still devoid of efficient (curating) treatment. Many treatments have been promising and were then abandoned. It is with humility and hope that we present the first results of an innovative treatment based on autologous tissue (adjective of tissue) regeneration.  After a brief overview of the current clinical and etiological of Peyronies Disease, we will explain what is the PRP associated or not with hyaluronic acid (HLA) and its very wide use for numerous pathologies, namely cutaneous, tendinous (adj. of tendon), articular and ophtalmological. It has been almost 4 years that we have been using PRP in different occurrences of ED and Peyronies Disease. We present the results of our experience on 13 Peyronies Disease patients followed over periods of 3 to 36 months.
Medium age: 57.5 (48 to 71). 8 patients with no recognized etiology, 4 report having practiced intracavernous injections and 1 had multiple interventions on the penis for hypospadias. in 8 cases the angulation was > to 50 degrees, and in 5 cases there was a disharmonious shortening. In 7 cases sexual activity was severely disturbed. In 9 cases it was mainly the dorsal albuginea that was pathological; and for the other 4 the fibrosis was disseminated on the septum and/or the "opposite of dorsal" albuginea. The treatment consists of repeated injections (4 over 2 months) of 4 to 8 ml of PRP +  HLA (kit from Regenlab, ready to use) in the plaques that have previously been located and measured through echography (ultrasound). Every session is done under local anesthetic (by penal bloc) an the injections are done under echographic control. The first control is done one month after the 4th injection with a possibility to administer a 5th round, according to the evolution. The controls are then every trimester for the first year, then twice a year. No complications were observed except for one important hematoma before the injections were guided through echography. 9 patients have been followed for 3 or more months with an average of 9.3 months. The angle of curvature is less than 15 degrees except in one case in which the angle aggravated. Sexual activity measured through IIEF-5 was normalized or preserved in all but one case. In total, 11 of 13 patients (out of which 4 were followed for a period equal or superior to 9 months) enrolled in this preliminary study have noticed a clear improvement of their clinical status on the functional level as well as on the anatomical level. These encouraging results call for confirmation on a longer period and on larger number of patients. This is why an international study involving 9 expert centres, including 4 other French (...), will commence very soon.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: PPeroni on May 19, 2014, 04:15:13 PM
Gentlemen,

I might have an appointment with Dr. Virag next month (I ll be in Paris for work). Is there any questions (I cannot ask dozens but a few might do) that might be really important and relevant regarding this treatment ?
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on May 19, 2014, 06:47:04 PM
lgrace

Thanks for the translation.
The bellow sentence is bothering me somehow, as PRP to my knowledge is from ones own blood.
QuotePRP +  HLA (kit from Regenlab, ready to use

PProni
If question, I think have no answer in the translation to:
Is the PRP from the patients own blood?
From where the HLA?
No rejection or other allergic reactions were observed?

James 
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: lgrace on May 20, 2014, 07:52:12 AM
Of course James, the PRP is extracted from the patient's blood. The kiit only refers to the HLA.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Conway96 on May 28, 2014, 01:42:51 PM
PPeroni - at the end of the presentation it's mentioned that there's an international study beginning soon. Maybe you can get some additional information about this study? I've searched online, but have yet to find anything. Has anybody had any luck?
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: UrsusMinor on May 29, 2014, 02:15:45 PM
I'm not sure that the Hyaluronic acid with PRP is all that new--although injecting it into the penis is!

Here's what it says on the Priapus Shot website:

So, back to the Priapus Shot ® procedure, here's thepotential complications of using hyaluronic acid fillers(Restylane & Juvederm):

1.With Restylane you can, especially in the forehead, see the side effect ofskin necrosis(it turns black and dies and must be surgically removed)! Not a pleasant thought when considering part of the skin of the face, so I never inject the forehead with Restylane where this is known to occur. But, even more disturbing it is to think of necrosis of the penis.

2.Lumpiness and nodules can occur with Juvederm and Restylane. Not common in my practice (reported in research as 1 in 10,000). But, I discontinued the use of another hyaluronic acid filler, Hydrelle, because I did see a higher than expected rate of nodule formation. In the face, a nodule is bad enough but in the penis, I just did not want to accept the possibility.


So, I never injected my penis with Restylane.

So, I'll be following the Frech research with great interest, but for the moment I'd be disinclined to let them anywhere near my little buddy with any HLA injections!
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on May 30, 2014, 05:21:52 AM
Skin necrosis?
No thank you, not for my penis, I will stick with PRP and VED.

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Milouzze on May 04, 2015, 04:09:07 PM
Hi everybody,

This is my first post on this forum, I'll do my best to give you my feedback on that treatment (I'm French). I hope you will catch my English...

First I have to tell you a bit about my situation. A plaque appeared 1 month after a trauma in Sept 2013.
At that time the plaque was tiny and located at the center of my penis (septum area) with no deformation of my penis. But I could feel it was growing and moving weeks after weeks.
First time I heard about Lapeyronie's disease was in January 2014. Then I saw 3 urologist between January 2014 and September 2014. They all made the same conclusion: "we can't do anything".
After 1 year, my plaque had turned quite big (10mm diameter I would say; I will not speak here about doctors measurements as I'm not sure to understand what they explained to me). In addition, I had 2 more plaques: a small one (distal, again at septum area, 4mm diameter) plus a medium size one on the top ("standard shape"), provoking a bend (around 30°).
My erections went poor (rigidity problem above plaques areas) and the additional consequence was a significant reduction of the length of my penis . I was really depressed.

Then I heard about this new treatment.
After a discussion with my "preferred" urologist, I decided to contact the doctor who wrote this article. One month after I had my first visit, and I started the treatment November 2014.

This treatment is experimental: it is a mix of PRP and Hyaluronic Acid injections. In addition, you have to take a L-Aginine based nutriment daily.
You start with 4 cessions during 2 month (one every 2 weeks). Two doctors are working together: Dr Sussman is manipulating the echography machine while Dr Virag is injecting the mixture of PRP (from your own blood) +HA. Both are highly skilled and experienced. Their dexterity is remarkable I have to say. This point is really important as my main plaque is "septal" and very difficult to access.
After those cessions, we decided to continue with one cession every month. For personal reasons (nothing to do with the treatment), I had to stop from February to now.

Today I had my 6th cession.
My feed back: from one cession to another one, the results were very variable, but mainly positive: I can remember only one cession (the third?) that didn't brought significant positive results.

I don't want to give people "false hope" as we would say in France. Maybe my case is unique, maybe not. Future will tell us.
What I can say now is: my 2 "additional" plaques have totally disappeared. The original "big" one is still here but is now around 3~4mm thick. Curvature is almost not noticeable to me (it was the quickest result, maybe 2 cessions were enough to get rid of it).
Unfortunately my main problem (erection rigidity) is still here, even if the situation is much better, rigidity hasn't be back as I would like it to be. So I'll continue this treatment.

My feeling is the plaques density has dramatically decreased which is tremendous but the fibrosis is still present. I hope today's injections will give good results.

To conclude I have to say, even if it is not perfect, the results are very good. I feel much better.

Now I'm asking to myself if I should start VED in addition (to force the "full" irrigation of my penis) as some of you are doing in addition with PRP treatment. I'll probably ask Doctors next time.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on May 04, 2015, 04:49:07 PM
Thank you for posting Milouzze
Reagding rigidity, did you try it also with some ED drug? Like Viagra, Cialis, etc'
Do you know what is the relation between the PRP and the Hyaluronic Acid? I mean % of the mixture?
The original post stated that the trial was made on 13 volunteers. Do you know how many people have done it until now?
Can you tell us the cost of the procedure?

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Milouzze on May 06, 2015, 01:56:17 AM
James,

I'll start Cialis 5mg for a month. I already tried Spedra 100mg (didn't change much the situation: my problem seems to be 100% physical). I'll give you a feedback later.

Sorry I don't have the % of components of the mixture.

I can't say either how many people is trying this new treatment. The program seems to be quite active: each time I meet the doctors, I ask them about the others ones and their results. To sum up, the feed back I have is: "we have encouraging results, but it seems 4 cessions only are not enough". It is just my feeling but I would say the program could represent 10% of their activity. Could be 30-50 patients?

The cost is 350€ per cession. I couldn't say if this price is temporary (just to start the program) or not. 
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on May 10, 2015, 07:54:24 PM
Thanks for the information Milouzze.
I have asked the question I had 4 sessions of PRP with no help, but if I will know the % of the Hyaluronic Acid and the total volume of the injected I may want to try it here where I am living.

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Jack1909 on May 14, 2015, 11:58:11 AM
I'd love to know the combination too. I mean..it was nice if I found some doctor able to perform it in Italy. Nothing against France, but I have been jumping between London and Wien for a long time. I think it's enough.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: incautious on May 15, 2015, 07:38:51 AM
Milouzze, Since you are seeing some results, If I were you I would use both VED and traction if you have not already. VED twice a day for 10 minuets each and traction twice a day if you can for about 30 minuets each.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Jack1909 on May 22, 2015, 03:47:44 AM
I'm trying to get in touch with the dr. Virag, but I have been not responded until now. I'm available to start this treatment as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: koolx on May 24, 2015, 10:30:36 AM
Jack, stay away from doctors in italy. I got a couple of friends who have had VERY bad experiences with stem cell/PRP treatment there. If anything, go with the french. Theyre honest and are more involved in trials.

From my reads and people's experiences with stem cell and PRP treatments, I'd say these following countries have the best track record:

1. Germany
2. France
3. Spain
4. England
5. Mexico
6. Argentina
7. Korea
8. Canada
9. China, Thailand, southeast Asian nations.
10. Russia
11. USA

USA is of course last on the list so I'd be careful of USA also. The stem cell treatments offered aren't really real stem cells, but stromal cells - soup of growth factors and some stem cells passed on and marketed as true stem cells when in reality theyre not.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: yyy on May 25, 2015, 07:39:28 PM
hope it will work
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Jack1909 on May 26, 2015, 02:44:39 AM
Koolx thank you, unfortunately I experienced on my own body how much miserable is 'my' country.
I'm going to do PRP plus HLA in France soon.

Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: bonsomi on May 26, 2015, 03:45:40 AM
Koolx, where in Germany? I am still unable to find prp here. Many people do it, but they refuse to inject my penis....

Regards
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on May 26, 2015, 03:51:40 AM
Jack

Who will make the PRP + HLA for you in France?

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Jack1909 on May 26, 2015, 04:05:25 AM
I'm in contact with dr Virag, the article author.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on May 26, 2015, 06:03:00 AM
Thanks Jack
Too far from me to get to him.
The reason I have asked % is that I may give it a try here where I have done the PRP.

James

Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Milouzze on May 26, 2015, 04:09:14 PM
Hi,

Just to let you know the last cession wasn't that good: I can not feel any difference regarding the plaque's dimension. I'm not disappointed anyway: it happened already one time in the past. Maybe the next one will be the good one.

Cialis 5 mg is working fine, maybe it help more than I was expecting: I feel better as I don't have to worry about my erection.

I started VED, it makes a real positive difference, seriously, I will not wait 2 weeks after next time's PRP+HA cession before starting VED (maybe 1 week is enough).

Regarding Dr Virag drug and HA %, I think the best would be to ask him directly. I'll ask. To be honest, I don't know if he wants to disclose this information.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on May 26, 2015, 08:21:17 PM
Thanks for the information Milouzze.
You are right regarding:
Quote.....I don't know if he wants to disclose this information

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: yyy on May 28, 2015, 09:59:34 AM
Quote deleted by moderator - James

how many degrees of curvature did you have at the beginning?
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Milouzze on June 17, 2015, 01:17:19 PM
Hi Yyy,

My first plaque was very central so the curvature wasn't my real concern at the beginning (I was more concerned about the pain during erection and the restriction). After few month other plaques appeared, including one that made a noticable curvature and we decided to start injections for it. I think at its maximum it was around 30-35°. After a unique cession it came back "normal" (less than 10°). This very quick result was probabely due to the quick action.

I still have a light curvature but I don't really care.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Jack1909 on June 18, 2015, 06:46:19 AM
Tomorrow I'm turning 25, so I've decided to make me a big present: I'll be in Paris to have an injection from Dr. Virag :D
I'll keep you updated.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on June 18, 2015, 07:07:05 AM
Please Jack, keep us updated :)
If you can find the % of the HLA will be very grateful  :)
Wish you excellent results :)

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Jack1909 on June 19, 2015, 01:54:01 PM
On my way home back from Paris..what I can say, Virag and hus assistant looked very experienced and skillful. The procedure was quite painful, more than i expected..a dorsal injection made me jump..let's see if I have improvements on my diffuse but superficial fibrosis. Virag said it may be very useful.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on June 19, 2015, 05:17:39 PM
Keep us updated Jack :)
Hope Dr. Virag is right and the results will be very good. :)

james
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Jack1909 on June 24, 2015, 10:43:12 PM
I'll do it, but I don't know how much my case can be taken as example since my condition is almost unique. From it has been pointed out by an ultrasound properly done, my tunica is 4 times thicker than normal.  Superficial Fibrosis is everywhere and this explains why I can't reach my stretched length when I have an erection (even using cialis high dosage)..it's not just ED, in my opinion my tunica has been damaged so much than it has lost its elastic ability to lengthen. I need a new tunica..this is the reality probably.
Anyway I'll have a second shot on the first days of July, and if I don't see improvements, I'll quit. I will not go for Xiaflex, it would be just a waste of money in my condition.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on June 25, 2015, 05:02:47 AM
jack

Is Dr. Virag also in the opinion that if the second round will not help no need to try third and fourth?
You made the first round on June 20 and will make the next on the first days of July, it means two weeks.
This is the interval Dr. Virag recommends?
You are now 5 days after the first round. Can see some improvements?

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Jack1909 on June 25, 2015, 05:38:11 AM
Yeah He told me if we don't see any improvement after the second shot, it better quit.
And yes, around two weeks is the right time between shots since the PRP is supposed to stay inside the penis for two weeks.

At the moment I'm not seeing improvements.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on June 25, 2015, 06:08:58 AM
Thanks for the answer Jack
Try to ask him what is the % of the mix, maybe will tell you. Who knows?

James
Title: Re: Stem Cells & Adult stem cell injections for Peyronie's
Post by: itachi on July 04, 2015, 12:58:01 PM
James,

Unfortunately, a peyronie's sufferer.
About Dr kuehass, i have read only one publication in wich he participated (with dr Egydio). But Dr Sansalone seems to have participated in much more publications (in peyronie correcting surgery) and he worked with both Dr Egydio and Dr Perovic. So, could Dr Sansalone be a better option than Dr Kuehass. Maybe Dr Kuehass can be better to correct congenital curvature as he seems to have developed the STAGE technique with Dr Egydio. But when it comes to peyronie's disease, Dr Sansalone have done WAY MORE surgeries than Dr Kuehass. Dr Sansalone knows the Egydio technique since many years and he has done it in more patients than Dr Kuehass did. So after Dr egydio, the second surgeon who are more experienced with the Egydio technique seems to be Dr Sansalone. But you can argue that even if a surgeon is more experienced than an other surgeon it not means he does a better job. I just can say that Dr Sansalone has more experience with this technique but does he give better results ? i don't know...

JAMES, i also want to share an other interesting publication about PRP to treat Peyronie's disease. It had been done by french doctors. They did intralesional injection of PRP and Hyaluronic Acid. It's a really promising therapy showing really good results in curvature (in my opinion). I post the link here. The publication is in french but there is an abstract in english (maybe you can also find the entire publication in english). And as i told for the publication on stem cell, this is an INTRAlesional injection. They inject the PRP and HA INSIDE the plaque (and not only around as it was the case for some guys in these forum).


http://www.academie-chirurgie.fr/ememoires/005_2014_13_3_096x100.pdf (http://www.academie-chirurgie.fr/ememoires/005_2014_13_3_096x100.pdf)
Title: Re: Re: Stem Cells & Adult stem cell injections for Peyronie's
Post by: Jack1909 on July 05, 2015, 02:54:23 AM
We already know the publication and we know Ronald Virag. Thank you anyway.

Dr Kuehhas performs 100/150 peyronie surgeries per year.
Title: Re: Re: Stem Cells & Adult stem cell injections for Peyronie's
Post by: james1947 on July 05, 2015, 04:37:56 AM
Back to hyaluronic acid (HLA).
Can somebody tell the % of PRP and HLA?
Regarding doctors, I am not arguing who is better.
The only point I have is that on the forum we know Dr. Kuehass, we don't know Dr. Sansalone.
We also don't know how much surgery Dr. Sansalone makes a year.

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Jack1909 on July 06, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I don't know the percentage of the mix.

On Friday I'll have the second round of my PRP plus HLA injections. It seems I have had a very very little improvement with the firs shot. The fibrotic area (my fibrosis area is very superficial, on the Buck and Dartos..so very noticeable by touching) may be a little less stiff. No improvements on the curvature for the while, but I want to remind you my condition is very peculiar. If I had a plaque, I'm quite sure I'd have had a more effective improvement.

Moreover, I'm in contact with the doctor from the Denmark group that Kuehhas talked me about. They are setting up the clinic and nothing is going to happen before this autumn. Once there, he told me he wants me to be seen by one of his team urologists. Kuehhas told me, without going into detail, the group is leading in the field of stem cells and he feels very positive about their work (they offer penile regeneration, of course).

Thus, I have been starting for one week a ointment as that one it was described by a member somewhere in here, with pentox. Being said that my problems are very superficial, using the right carrier, it could lead me to some unexpected results.

I think I'm a solid contributor :)

Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Jack1909 on July 07, 2015, 02:44:34 AM
...and two granulomas popped out where the needle was stuck. Just for completing information.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on July 10, 2015, 11:04:47 PM
You are indeed a solid contributor Jack :)
Still struggling to find out the %.

James
Title: Re: Re: Stem Cells & Adult stem cell injections for Peyronie's
Post by: drew67 on July 12, 2015, 09:20:09 PM
Quote from: rellisacct on December 12, 2014, 12:19:36 PM
Penis replacement trials are going to begin much sooner than that, but not in America. ...In order to get things moving, the clinical trials will begin in Mexico by Spring 2016 at the latest.

How do you know this?
Title: Re: Re: Stem Cells & Adult stem cell injections for Peyronie's
Post by: james1947 on July 13, 2015, 08:17:20 AM
Thanks for the link itachi
Unfortunately my French those days not enough for fully understand the PDF.
Maybe someone can translate to English?
If not, maybe someone can find out the the % is mentioned or not?

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Jack1909 on July 17, 2015, 02:55:44 AM
Dr Virag said that from a comparison between the ultrasound before and after the first shot fibrosis has reduced. This I why I'll have another shot in the first days of September..
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Jack1909 on July 17, 2015, 03:03:38 AM
James I don't know the percentage of HLA but from what I saw it seems it has some kind of phials (or test tube) already ready that contain a standard amount of HCLA. Maybe it buys them somewhere.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: yyy on July 22, 2015, 05:21:07 PM
Will start the treatment too in September. Virag looks really skilled

James I dont suggest you to reply the mixture elsewhere as you need an expert to inject HLA. It could lead to skin necrosis If bad injected, dont risk.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on July 22, 2015, 06:29:08 PM
Thanks for the advice yyy
The doctor that injected me the PRP is very skilled, she is using HLA, but I will reconsider the subject :)

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: yyy on September 01, 2015, 04:06:27 PM
Ok 1st session finished. No pain, he uses a different approach And goes  into The lump with The help of the ultrasound so he always knows where exactly the needle is. We discovered 2 new spots, this time inside the corpora: they are clearly the result of my xiapex shot, because The "skilled" Salamanca injected The drug inside the corpora. Hope The spots will dissolve with other prp shots. Peace men
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on September 01, 2015, 04:10:31 PM
Thanks for the update yyy :)
Wish you successful outcome :)

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: yyy on September 01, 2015, 04:15:37 PM
If I get results The everyone will do. My plaque is big and strong as fu.ck. Ill keep u all updated
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Dros on December 29, 2015, 10:18:37 AM
Just as a quick side-note for those of you asking for percentages. The treatment protocol is actually described in much detail in the paper itself:

"A chaque séance on prélève dans deux tubes sous vide, 4 ml de sang total dans chacun des tubes. Ceux-ci contiennent en outre 2 ml d'acide hyaluronique en gel, 2 ml d'un gel polyester inactif et filtrant, et 0.6 ml de citrate de sodium à titre d'anticoagulant"

So two tubes, in each tube there is 4ml of blood, 2ml of HAL, 2ml inactive and filtered 'polyester-gel' (whatever that is) and 0.6ml sodium-citrate.

Hope that helps :-)

I'm thinking about visiting Dr. Virag myself, even though it is very expensive...
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: DrRunels on December 30, 2015, 10:40:56 AM
Hello,

It's been a while since I was on the forum and am honored to see the continued intelligent discussions and sharing of ideas world wide.  If you'll permit me, I'll share a few up dates that relate to the current discussion. I am NOT looking for more patients so please do not think I'm soliciting nor contact me to see me as a patient...I'm here to help provide information to this very useful forum. Hope it's useful, if not just delete me, no hard feelings... :)

First, a little background.  I was the first to inject the penis with PRP and coined the name Priapus Shot® so that I could protect patients by helping them identify doctors who use our methods and agree to use FDA-approved kits for preparing PRP.  One of the FDA approved kits I have used for the procedure is Regen and I shared my ideas with the Regen company.

The Regen® prp company (based in Europe) hired Dr. Virag to extend my ideas with research using a kit that has not yet been approved by the FDA here in the US--where the PRP is activated by an HA filler. The kit is available in Europe. Dr. Virag and I both lectured in Venice Italy 2 years ago and have shared our ideas and research. He's also world renown and brilliant researcher and one of the first to write about injectable vasodilators for the penis. Because he's researching that particular form of PRP, he's keeping the study clean by not introducing another powerful variable (like a pump). If he includes more than one variable, then the positive results become confusing (was it the PRP or was it the pump?).

There's much discussion about what PRP actually is and about which method works best for which technology. Here's one of the recent research papers on the topic to show you how complicated the issue can be.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=platelet+rich+fibrin+matrix+definition (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=platelet+rich+fibrin+matrix+definition)

From the beginning (6 years ago), in my own office, I made a mixture of Juvederm with PRP and injected my own penis.  There may be some increased benefit for growth but I do not think it's as needed for Peyronie's (I'll explain why later). But, the mixture must be done correctly and otherwise there could be some risk of granuloma or necrosis.  I think using the correct mixture, I can do it safely but the problem is that in the US, mixing PRP with Juvederm technically is making a new drug that's not been approved by the FDA so I can't roll this out and treat other people without spending millions for FDA approval.  But, here's the good news with Peyronie's...

The HA adds a scaffold for growth and activation, but is not needed to hold the PRP in place (otherwise, you'd have to inject juvederm to hold the PRP in place to heal from normal surgery or from a simple cut on the hand).  The PRP forms a natural gel--platelet-rich fibrin matrix which holds the PRP in place.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=platelet+rich+fibrin+matrix (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=platelet+rich+fibrin+matrix)

How to form that matrix (activation with calcium outside the body, activation with and HA --what's in the Regen kit used by Dr. Virag, or activation by collagen in the body (what happens with a normal wound like surgery or a simple cut on the hand)...how to form that matrix is debatable, but in the case of Dr. Virag's study, the main function of the HA is to activate the PRP and form a ready made matrix.  But the matrix may be more useful for healing scars where volume is needed. See this video about a scar I treated.https://vimeo.com/47093322 (https://vimeo.com/47093322)

For now, we don't really know...but here's a summary for now when it comes to Peyronie's disease...(summary posted here)http://priapusshot.com/peyronies/ (http://priapusshot.com/peyronies/)
1. A combination therapy for Peyronie's has been shown in multiple studies to work better than single therapy. (you can see that research on this page)http://priapusshot.com/research/ (http://priapusshot.com/research/)
2. The pump when used with the Priapus Shot®, I originally intended to help hold the material in the penis until PRP turned into platelet rich fibrin matrix.  Over the past 6 years, I've found the pump may not be needed for that purpose but still serves much function to improve results with ED, Peyronie's, and with growth.
3. A pump alone helps many people (see the research page)http://priapusshot.com/research/ (http://priapusshot.com/research/)
4. PRP mixed with HA is not approved by the FDA yet in the US.
5. Dr. Virag is a brilliant researcher who has done amazing work to build on my original ideas and I highly recommend him as a physician but recommend you do the whole protocol here unless you're part of his study where he's watching to see what happens with PRP & HA alone.
6. Other excellent providers can be found on our list. If you're in Europe and want to use one of the kits with PRP mixed with HA, our providers there can use those kits....which I think are excellent.  Other kits can actually provide a higher concentration of platelets...we do not yet know which PRP preparation method works the best.

Thank you for allowing me to comment on this very helpful and intelligently monitored forum.

Very best regards,

Charles

Charles Runels, MD
Inventor of the Priapus Shot® procedure
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: yyy on December 30, 2015, 06:26:19 PM
The problem is that you need 6+ injections to PROBABLY see some results. Some of us (Europeans) cannot go every 2 weeks in Paris because our jobs don't allow this. Without considering the money you have to spend to go 6 times in Paris and do 6 injections. Wasting 3-4000 euros, with a simple hope it could help, is not something that everyone can afford.
I did 1 injection with no results so I quit for the reasons I mentioned above. I believe only stem cells would possibly help us concretely.
Moreover the risk of necrosis due to HA is really disquienting, because a penile necrosis is the end of everything.

Too many of you only think about how to earn money, no matter if this gives results or if it could create permanent damages. The proof?
Offer the injections for free, in order to help also the "non-rich patients" and to collect a serious amount of data and cases with tangible results, to be published worldwide. Naa, it's Pure utopia, I know it.
I remember you that We are taking all the risks exactly like guinea pigs, spending a fortune, and the best possibilty is that nothing negative will happen. and I'm fed up with all of you.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: kuaka on December 31, 2015, 10:53:28 AM
While this is not a "new" condition, it seems to have grown as far as % of men affected by it.  At least I would hope that it is not simply a matter of more discussion of the issue.  If indeed the % has increased, then an epidemiological examination is in order.  Epidemiology is basically population changes which take, in the case of humans, years to manifest the results.  Perhaps we have reached a threshold of Magnesium deficiency in combination with an increase in aberrant sexual behavior.  The latter in an effort to become more "accepting" of "lifestyle" choices.  The former due to the accumulated effects of modern farming techniques and the continued departure from "natural" food sources.  Magnesium is best obtained through the consumption of nutritious green vegetables...and who eats enough of those?

At any rate, my personal opinion is that we should look first to metabolic deficiencies, THEN at "medications".
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Freemason on January 01, 2016, 12:53:00 PM
Thanks so much Dr Runelsfor your feedback and efforts! This disease cam be psychologically devastating.  Have you thought about a mixture of Superoxide Disumtase, PRP, and HA?
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Dros on January 01, 2016, 01:03:42 PM
I have an appointment with Dr. Virag on January 11th, and I'm planning on doing at least 4 sessions if the first session isn't a complete failure. I hope this will give those of you interested in the treatment some new information. For those interested in my background: 30th birthday present - Peyronies Society Forums (https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,7130.0.html)

Let me know if you have any specific questions for Dr. Virag :-)
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on January 03, 2016, 07:35:43 AM
Hi Dr. Runels

Happy to see you still around.
I was a very big fun of the PRP shots, unfortunately it didn't helped me and almost no one on the forum.
I even considered a few new round of PRP with HA, but nobody knows the % of PRP and HA except I suppose Dr. Virag and to fly to France from where I am living is $1500 at least, ticket only.

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Dros on January 03, 2016, 07:42:47 AM
James, read my comment below, the % of HLA is actually mentioned in the paper :-)
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on January 03, 2016, 07:54:21 AM
Thank you for the tip Dros, unfortunately I didn't find the %.
The links on Dr Runel post not mentioning HA and %.
Can you give me a better connection?

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on January 03, 2016, 08:26:07 PM
Thanks Dros

The content of the two tubes will be injected as two separate injections at the same time?
If yes, why the separate tubes?
How many injections in how many places?
I don't understand also the inactive and filtered 'polyester-gel' as polyester I am using in boats building and it is used also in cloths fabrication.
Sorry Dros for my many many questions, I just don't understand and would like to know as I can make the treatment quiet cheep here.

James
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: yyy on January 03, 2016, 10:14:05 PM
from what I remember the substances are mixed in a machine and injected together, so the tubes are not separated when ready to be injected
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: Dros on January 04, 2016, 06:44:10 AM
Ok, James, here is the protocol from the study, translated with the help of google translate (I tried to correct obvious mistakes, but my french skills are quite basic):

"The treatment consists of repeated injection (four for two months) from 4 to 8 ml of PRP + HLA (Regenlab ® kit ready for use) in the plaques previously identified and measured on ultrasound. In each session, two vacuum tubes are used with 4 ml of whole blood in each tube. Both tubes contain further 2 ml of hyaluronic acid gel, 2 ml of an inactive filter and polyester gel, and 0.6 ml of sodium citrate as an anticoagulant. After blood collection tubes are immediately centrifuged for five minutes at a force (RCF) of 1500 g. After centrifugation, in the sealed tube, the whole blood is fractionated: red blood cells are trapped in the gel, whereas the cellular components contained in the serum are deposited on the surface thereof. HLA is above the serum (Fig. 4). A slow and repeated inversion of the tubes is necessary to homogenize the preparation. During these preparations, a regional anesthesia is practiced by penile block with pure lidocaine (10mg / ml). Injections into the patient albuginea are then performed under ultrasound (Fig. 5 and 6) When the plaque is thick (> or = 3 mm) and very fibrous 18G needles are used with which the plaque is dilacerated before injecting . For less dense plaques and especially ventral or septal locations 25G needles are preferred. The same protocol will be repeated every two weeks for two months. An initial check is performed one month after the last injection, then three months, six months and annually."

no word on why they use two tubes, but I can ask next Monday when I have my first session.
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: skunkworks on January 04, 2016, 07:04:48 AM
Quote from: DrRunels on December 30, 2015, 10:40:56 AM
Hello,

Charles Runels, MD
Inventor of the Priapus Shot® procedure

Hi Dr Runels, some questions re points from a previous discussion on this forum with yourself:

Quote from: DrRunels on May 15, 2015, 11:07:06 AMThe studies everyone is looking for are being done; so, I tried to encourage by letting the group know what research is being done and gave the name of one physician (of 3 different urology groups) that is doing those studies.

Have any of those studies been completed yet and if so are the results available?

Also, do you have case studies of successful Peyronie's treatment from your procedure, and if so did any of the patients have Doppler Ultrasound testing (before and after) the procedure? If not, would you consider creating such a case study when opportunity presents?
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: james1947 on January 04, 2016, 11:58:45 PM
Dros

Thank you for your effort :)
Will be happy if you ask Dr. Virag why 2*4 ml andnot 8 ml
From what I read, I understandthat the mixing is before extracting PRP from the blood. It is correct?
My English is not something of a high level. :(

James

Title: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: Dros on January 12, 2016, 05:39:29 AM
I had my first appointment with Dr. Virag yesterday. First of all, I have to say that he - as well as Dr. Sussman - seem to be very competent and professional. For those of you who are not aware, Dr. Virag is actually quite famous as an urologist (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Virag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Virag)), so that (to me) makes the treatment more credible. He is also quite easy to talk to and he seems to take an interest in his patients, something that can't be said for many doctors. I brought along a memory stick with pictures (which I might share on this forum once (or if) I improve my curvature) showing my deformity, which was a 45 degree curve to the left when I took the pictures. Since then my curvature actually got worse and is at 60 degrees at the moment (even though I started taking Pentox one month ago). Dr. Virag seemed very sursprised that my curvature was this bad, especially at my age (30). This didn't help my nervousness...

After the survey I went to the other room where Dr. Sussman did the ultrasound. For the first 10 minutes, she actually did not find anything and was beginning to wonder if I had any plaque at all. She called in Dr. Virag and the two tried to find out what was going on together. To find out where to look they actually induced an erection, which meant a first injection already. They finally found the 'plaque' (if you can even call it that) and Dr. Virag was even more surprised, that the small amount of plaque was enough to give me such a bad curvature. After discussing my history some more and after I told him about a popping noise during sex before my Peyronie's started, he was actually convinced that I had a partial rupture of the tunica albuginea. What sounded bad to me seems to actually be very good news: Since my plaque is very soft and neither calcified nor very fibrous, and since only my tunica albuginea is affected and not my corpora cavernosa, he actually thinks that I'm the perfect candidate for the PRP treatment, which is very good news indeed. He wouldn't promise me anything (as no good doctor should), but he said that I should be able to achieve good results during the treatment (4-6 sessions). The PRP should - in his opinion - be able to heal the scar tissue. We will see. I talked a bit about the possibility of Xiaflex as well, and he was actually *very* confident, that his treatment is better than Xiaflex, since it is actually regenerative and doesn't just destroy the plaque. I'm not sure what to make of this, as many members reported good results with Xiaflex. My guess is that it really depends on the specific case, as (and he agreed on that) every case is different and bad scarring might no more be treatable with PRP.

After they marked the location of my plaque they drew blood from me and prepared the serum. James, I was able to ask Dr. Virag why they use two tubes, and the answer is really simple. The HLA kit they use (from RegenLab, I think it is this one: http://www.regenlab.com/PRP-HA-CellularMatrix (http://www.regenlab.com/PRP-HA-CellularMatrix)) is sold in tubes already, and the tubes are not large enough for 8ml of blood. That's the only reason, and since they inject 8ml of PRP they have to use two tubes. I asked him about the use of hyaluronic acid and he confirmed that it is mainly to keep the PRP in place (he was very confident that PRP alone would not be a good treatment because the PRP wouldn't stay put long enough, but I didn't ask him if a vaccuum pump could also do that job). I didn't ask him about the possibility of skin necrosis (I'm not sure I would want to know), but he told me that he didn't have any serious side effects in over 100 patients. If that's true then that's very, very impressive.

They added the blood to the tubes and started the centrifuge. After 5 minutes, everything was ready for the injections. First, I was given two shots for local anesthesia, after that Dr. Virag started to inject the PRP/HLA mixture. Dr. Virag told me that it is very important that Dr. Sussman used the ultrasound to show him where the needle goes, so that he was able to inject the serum exactly at the right place. He thought it to be really careless that doctors who use Xiaflex don't use ultrasound, as injecting the wrong spot can have very serious side effects with Xiaflex. The injections itself where somewhat painful, but not as bad as I expected. I really do think that it is extremely important to have the right person do injections on your penis. As I understand, Dr. Virag was actually the first doctor to use injections for ED and he has literally done thousands of injections in the last 30 years, so that definitely helps. One day after the injections I have to say that I have no pain and no swelling, which is amazing to me.

On a side note. I read on here that the Priapus shot is administered at different locations of the penis and people had a very 'full' penis afterwards. My injections were very different, as they were ONLY administered to the plaque itself and the surrounding area. So, in my case, only to the middle of the left side. As the HLA is supposed to keep the PRP in place I'm not sure if there is any PRP in the rest of my penis... As the rest of my penis is fine, I don't really care, but I thought that I mention it nonetheless.

To sum it up, as of yet I don't know if the shots had any positive effect. I have my next appointment in two weeks and Dr. Virag told me that I shouldn't expect any results before that. If I do notice anything, I will let you know though. All I can say is that I have a much more hopeful outlook on my Peyronie's (at least for now) and I feel like there is actually a silver lining... let's hope that I won't get disappointed. With my curve, sex seems to be out of the question for the time being...
Title: Re: Recent French article : New treatment ??? (own plasma with hyaluronic acid)
Post by: yyy on January 12, 2016, 04:59:53 PM
thanks for keeping us updated. Dr Virag is a competent urologist, you are in good hands
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: krazylord on January 12, 2016, 10:27:45 PM
Hi Dros,

Thanks for your detailed and explanatory post. It is great to hear and I really hope that it works for you. Please, keep us posted on your results.

Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: james1947 on January 13, 2016, 02:01:14 AM
Thank you for the details Dros
I am sure your post is very helpful for many of us

James
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: Dros on January 15, 2016, 04:06:59 PM
A short update: After 4 days, I don't see any improvements yet. Still hopeful though :-)
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: yyy on January 16, 2016, 04:59:26 AM
really too early, don't worry
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: Dros on January 16, 2016, 09:04:59 AM
yes, that's what he told me. I'm just surprised that there are some people in the PRP trial who claim that they had results in the first 24 hours...
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: yyy on January 16, 2016, 01:18:21 PM
placebo effect
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: skunkworks on January 17, 2016, 12:18:49 AM
So he estimates 4-6 sessions for you to see considerable improvement, how long between sessions?

Did he give you an overall estimate of how long the whole course of treatment would take?
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: yyy on January 17, 2016, 06:42:51 AM
they should be done after 2 or 3 weeks
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: skunkworks on January 17, 2016, 07:06:13 AM
So between 8 and 18 weeks for the full treatment course?
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: Dros on January 17, 2016, 02:18:38 PM
four sessions, two weeks apart, and then two more sessions, one month apart.

X - 2 - X - 2 - X - 2 - X - 4 - X - 4 - X

14 weeks...

When the paper was published, they actually only did the first four (and for financial reasons I might do the same). That would mean 6 weeks in total :-)
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: Dros on January 26, 2016, 06:15:48 AM
Had my second session yesterday. So far, there has been no improvement. Dr. Sussman told me that most people notice improvements after the third shot (statistically speaking). Considering the price, it kind of sucks to do a treatment that might not help, but I will at least do the third shot before I consider stopping the treatment. Will keep you updated.
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: james1947 on January 26, 2016, 07:58:21 AM
Thanks Dros for the update.
As a veteran of PRP injections, waiting to see your results.
If they are positive, I will try to see if my PRP doctor can inject me with this compound :)
Wish you good results :)

James
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: Dros on February 10, 2016, 01:57:39 PM
So, I had the third session on Monday. So far, my condition has not improved, unfortunately... still a 60 degree curve. According to the Doppler ultrasound, my fibrosis has decreased in thickness though, from 3.4mm to 2.8... Dr. Sussman and Dr. Virag think that the curve will not improve while the fibrotic area is thicker than 2.5mm... So all I can do is hope for the best and continue the treatment I guess... even though my money is running out fast :(

To those that have seen improvements with PRP, could you elaborate on how quickly you noticed the results?
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: james1947 on February 10, 2016, 02:59:43 PM
Thanks for posting Dros
Wish you will start having results.


James
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: NeoV on February 10, 2016, 03:57:32 PM
Those two doctor's seem pretty good. It's interesting to see them seem so confident that the PRP could straighten you out and get rid of the scar tissue. My PRP shots definitely made it straighter during those few weeks it was in my penis. Other than that I have no idea what it did, but I am better off than I was for sure. In fact, my erections are really really good these days, to the point where my wife comments that it got longer and bigger than before.

When I had the PRP in my penis, I got myself as hard as possible several time a day and even used VED a bit. My penis was much bigger and the erections from all the fluid seemed to stretch out the scar tissue. I only did one round though : (

I think it's a good thing to do and mostly harmless. But there is no real consensus and no real studies that I know of that demonstrate it's effectiveness.
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: yyy on February 11, 2016, 04:50:21 PM
mine is 4 mm, worse than yours.

Did you see any other improvements like better morning wood, better erections or increase in length?
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: Dros on February 11, 2016, 06:07:22 PM
yes, I have seen some improvements like better erection quality, a more natural flaccid hang, and I also believe that my curvature has somewhat improved when not fully erect...

BUT I'm not sure what is responsible for those changes. I have been taking Pentox, L-Arginine, ALCAR, low dose Cialis and Q10 daily and have also continued with traction (2-3 hours daily, continued a couple days after each session) and VED (started one week after each session)... the PRP might have contributed, but I guess the erection quality is mostly due to the supplements...
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: Dros on February 18, 2016, 06:19:36 AM
So I compared pictures of my penis in Photoshop and I can say that my curvature definitely hasn't improved. This condition really starts to eat at me, especially since I'm ready to move on from my last relationship. I have my 4th session with Dr. Virag next Tuesday, and I'm very curious whether he thinks that this treatment might yet be beneficial for me...
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: yyy on February 18, 2016, 02:14:17 PM
ask him to show you clearly the improvement of the fibrosis comparing the ultrasounds.
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: lespleen on February 23, 2016, 12:35:40 AM
Presumably your fibrosis has decreased in thickness from  3.4mm to 2.8. This is as clear an indication as any. And according to Virag, no visible alteration will occur so long as the plaque is < 2.5. So why are you worried about before and after pics? If the decrease from  3.4mm to 2.8 is attributable to prp,  you're clearly on the right track. Ideally, you would stop the other treatment modalities for a time in order to fully assess the effectiveness of prp? It is conceivable , however unlikely, that the period during which you're receiving the prp therapy coincides with a period during which the  other supplements/medications have begun to make a difference? Or that the prp enables the  supplements/medications to act more effectively... in which case the prp is still doing the heavy lifting. If  prp is really the difference maker here, seems like you would want to be at least  85% sure so that you can continue to allocate resources toward this end ... and not give up on the heels of a breakthrough.
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: Dros on February 23, 2016, 04:56:30 PM
Thanks lespleen. I actually just came home from my 4th session. The fibrosis has not improved between the 3rd and 4th session and is still at 2.8mm. I asked Dr. Virag whether I should continue with the treatment and explained to him that money is a big issue and I would rather know now whether I have to save up for another treatment. He told me that it was indeed strange that I did not see any improvements yet and that most people with conditions such as mine see results faster (he told me: "when it doesn't work, usually we know why, but with you I don't know. you should be much better considering the small amount of fibrosis you have"). We agreed to wait three more weeks, after which I send him an up-to-date image of my dick. If there is still no improvement I will look at Xiaflex. If I see at least *some* improvements however, he would advise me to continue as that would mean that we are on the right track.

I will not use the VED for the next three weeks (he advised against it) and just use traction (and warming pads, as it seemed to work for some on here and I read that heat might activate PRP even more). What I found quite interesting is that he actually advised me to use manual traction while fully erect (pushing against the curve). I know that this is not encouraged here and I asked him if that wasn't dangerous. He seems to believe that it isn't (though I don't know if that is a general statement or just regarding my condition + PRP). So I will do that and use more force with traction...
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: Lucketts on February 23, 2016, 05:37:18 PM


I imagine that pushing (not stretching) against the curve would be fine.  The protocol after a xiaflex injection is that if you have a nonsexual erection, then one time a day or night,  you can gently bend against the curve.
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: james1947 on February 23, 2016, 06:10:07 PM
I hope that this treatment will not go on the "regular" PRP way :(

James
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: lespleen on February 23, 2016, 10:05:03 PM
Thanks, Dros. This is purely speculative but is there any fact of the matter about how PRP + HYALURONIC ACID will act in a patient taking a variation of the PAV  cocktail ? I know that  injecting  anti-inflammatory agents to specific joint sites cannot be carried out in patients taking anticoagulants. The patient has to stop taking the anticoagulant ( including low dose asprin!) 8 days before the shot is administered to the knee, wrist, elbow, affected site in order for the injection to prove effective. Manual manipulation via traction aside, perhaps the variation on the PAV cocktail you're on is interfering with the ability of the PRP + HYALURONIC ACID  to deliver its payload and anchor itself in palce? Perhaps  the PAV cocktail, however beneficial it might be in itself, is somehow "diluting" the action of the PRP + HYALURONIC ACID? Have you discussed this possibility with Virag?
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: Dros on March 04, 2016, 03:43:44 AM
I did not talk to him about Pentox directly, but he knows from the survey that I take Pentox, so I guess he doesn't feel like it's a problem...

Anyway, it's two weeks after my 4th session and there are still no results when it comes to curvature... I guess it's either Xiaflex or surgery now... Unfortunately, Xiaflex is not covered by insurance in Switzerland, so I might well do it with Dr. Virag, as the way he uses echography to make sure where to inject seems actually perfect for Xiaflex, as there is almost no palpable fibrosis in my dick and the right injection site would be hard to find without echography.
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: yyy on March 04, 2016, 03:39:47 PM
Also dr Kuehhas in London performs Xiaflex shots together with an ultrasound
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: james1947 on June 08, 2016, 08:24:08 PM
No news's from people treated by Dr, Virag?
So good that just not logging in anymore?

James
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: Dros on June 09, 2016, 07:28:43 AM
Well, in my case it was, unfortunately, a waste of time, money, and energy...  :-\
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: james1947 on June 10, 2016, 08:18:41 AM
Thank you for the answer Dros

Like me, sadly, with the PRP :(

James
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: lespleen on September 20, 2016, 02:48:20 AM
It is worth noting that dr. Virag uses the Regenlab product in his published studies. I spoke with their new Regenlab USA headquarters and they confirmed that Virag uses their system. Whether or not Virag was using this system when you received your injection is another story. The Regenlab product produces one of the lowest concentrations of PRP out there and indeed they actively compare their  product with competing products on the basis of this criterion.  This might not have worked to your benefit.
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: fredukas on September 26, 2016, 03:44:00 AM
I met Dr Virag and Sussman last Friday for a first clinical assessment. Their clinic is located about a block from le Palais de l'Ellysée which made it easy to find. After the first exam with Dr Sussman to locate and size my plaque with an echography, they also deicded to induce an erection to take photos. My deviation is about 50 degrees to the left and upwards. I must say that I have had Peyronie's since Sep 2015 and have been treated with injectable corticosteroids for six months that have offered nothing in terms of improvement. My urologist wanted to try another round of injections before surgery that I simply refused. I also explained to my urologist about the PRP treatment and was amazed that he simply hadn't a clue. In any case, and as I am health care professional, I discussed at length with Dr Virag of the treatment that I will start next month.  I also mentioned that I had looked into going to London or even the USA and brought to his attention the notorious P shot that he labeled as a scam that doesn't work. His name has also been associated with the father of the P shot concept that he resents greatly. He then allowed me to see his research project that he will present at a conference in Venice next week. basically he has more than 150 subjects enrolled in his research project but will present 75 of them that he has followed for the last four years. I saw the stats and he was very straightforward and honest with me. The results of his study show that only one case was entirely cured but that 85% of the group showed major improvement with an average reduction in angle of 27%, firmer and better erections. He did mention that the only way to work this issue is to inject into the plaque and to follow the 4 plus two injections as per protocol. Most of his patients return once a year to get an annual maintenance treatment. His stats also showed that 85% of his patient were satisfied with the treatment but he did tell me that I would not recover my penis like it was before. I want to share this with the folks on the forum so they can realize that all of those paying big bucks for a P shot are wasting their time as it is a money making gimmick. We also discussed the use of VD or an extender and he is quite favorable but told me to hold off until we do a few treatments. I am not sure how well I will improve but will keep the forum informed of my progress over the weeks and months. My hopes and expectations are to be in the 85% group who showed significant improvement and to maybe try to use an extender after to augment my chances of a full recovery. Again, just want all to know that Virag and Sussman are REAL health specialists who care about their patients not the $ making schemes that are growing in popularity.
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: lespleen on September 26, 2016, 04:22:46 PM
Virag selectively injects prp into penis by targeting the plaques or plaque involved. The so called P shots involve 6 injections of PRP with three on each side. Virag is using a kit namely the Regenlab kit which produces one of the lowest concentrations of PRP out there. The P shot administered in the USA varies  in the degree of platelet concentration according to the proprietary system or systems used by the physician. The P shot isn't one unitary thing. It might not be effective in treating peyronnies because it isn't administered so as to target the plaque specifically. But it might neverthless prove effective in improving ED for the same reason Virag has met with some favorable results with Peyronies Disease despite using an inferior PRP processing system.
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: Gabriel on April 28, 2018, 11:12:46 AM
Hi guys !

A little up on this topic: has anyone experienced Dr Virag's injection since Dros' attempt ?

After 7 months with all the oral package + topical mixtures + traction/VED and no sign of progress, I myself took an appointment with Dr Virag for the last week of may.

Although I have well understood that I should keep low expectations about his method, I will keep you informed if I see any progress or learn something new :-)
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: TonySa on April 28, 2018, 12:07:28 PM
Have you tried xiaflex, or is it considerably more expensive?  Unlike PRP it shows success.
Title: Re: Dr VIRAG PRP & Hyaluronic acid treatment
Post by: Gabriel on April 28, 2018, 12:25:52 PM
Well, actually my two urologists seem to be convinced that I should save Xiaflex as a "ultimate solution" when I enter the chronic stage (after 7 months I'm still inflammatory  :()... I think first of all I'll have Virag and Susskin examine my penis with erect echodoppler (something I never did), and see what they tell me !
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on June 19, 2018, 12:59:19 PM
Hi guys,

Just had my first injection of PRP + HA from Dr Virag & Sussman (still very kind, listening, patient and professional).

As I am stupid as f**k, I had not understood that I needed to spread the anaesthetic cream 30 min after arriving at the office... So the injections hurted VERY BADLY (like 8/10 on an arbitrary scale).

Now (3 hours later), my junk looks like a mutant eggplant with especially a HUGE ugly swelling on the left side. And some pain is still there... According to the dr, it should subside tonight... Let's hope so, cause it's quite painful and visually almost terrorizing.

On the bright side, the Drs told me that:
1) They don't use Regenlabs' PRP system anymore (but they couldn't tell me the exact name of their provider, as they use a French intermediary) ;
2) I may feel some quick progress about the pain (I'm still in the very acute phase), like from now until 30-45 days ;
3) I may see an improvement on the deformation in 2-4 months.

On the dark side, I've been told that:
1) I should not have sex from now until one week;
2) I should not use VED nor traction from now until 15 days;
3) I had to pay 550 euros, of which 350 euros not refunded by the insurance;
4) All of this could be pretty much useless, and Xiapex should not be an alternative as it has recently been shown to destroy almost much than to repair the penile tissues. According to Virag, all the recent studies shade the initial success of collagenase; him and Sussman even personnaly had a patient who almost lost his glans from necrosis after Xiapex; and thus they don't even offer Xiapex injections anymore unless the patient insists A LOT for it... And we're talking about doctors who practice injections at 4 hands with a live ultrasound, so I must say they are quite convincing. But I'm curious to hear about your opinions guys, as I believe to have read some pretty good Xiapex success-stories here.

So... next injections in late july, late august, and maybe late september if the situation seems to improve from this treatment. I'll keep you up to date; don't hesitate if you have questions!

Cheers,

Gabriel

Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: tiagofil on June 19, 2018, 05:19:09 PM
,
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: hope794 on June 19, 2018, 05:38:06 PM
Well said, tiagofil. I'm interested too.
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on June 19, 2018, 06:24:49 PM
Hello guys,

About PRP/HA, I think the only study is Virag's, and I does not seem perfectly rigorous; you'll find it there, in English: Evaluation of the benefit of using a combination of autologous platelet rich-plasma and hyaluronic acid for the treatment of Peyronie's disease (http://www.oatext.com/evaluation-of-the-benefit-of-using-a-combination-of-autologous-platelet-rich-plasma-and-hyaluronic-acid-for-the-treatment-of-Peyronies-disease.php)

And I guess CCH is Xiapex (Clostridium Collagenase ?...) ?
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: pey ron on June 19, 2018, 07:39:44 PM
@Gabriel, don't disappear, stp! keep us posted!

best of luck!
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on June 20, 2018, 04:12:56 AM
Haha don't worry Pey Ron, I do intend to stay around, cured or not... We're on the same boat, I'm not living it!

As for the sequels, on day 2 the swelling subsided a little, but 60% of my skin looks like a bloody rainbow (we've got red, pink, purple...)! Anyways, the doc said that the first effect I might experience (pain reduction) won't appear until a few days / weeks (/months)... I'll keep you updated, thanks for your support guys!
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: tiagofil on June 20, 2018, 05:13:43 PM
Great to read that there are doctors experimenting and documenting treatments (I'm going to read this paper), since this disease seems orphan from real scientific biomedical research. Good luck with the treatment. It seems all available treatments are secondary to other conditions. Traction was for micropenis, Xiaflex first for Dupuytren, etc.

CCH is indeed short for Collagenase clostridium histolyticum (xiaflex). Because it has slightly different brand names in Europe and North America I'm starting to use it more often.
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on July 05, 2018, 03:35:16 AM
Hi folks,

So, it's been two weeks since my first PRP + HA injection: as stated by Virag, I can't report any progress regarding hourglassing/bottlenecking/curvature/plaque reduction. Unfortunately, I can't report any progress either about pain during erections, which could have (or not) already subsided according to the doc. It doesn't seem to have worsened, though; maybe a good sign, but it's way too early to judge.

Next round of injections at the end of the month; you can count on me to keep you up to date if I experience the slightest improvement :-)!

Stay strong guys,

G
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: ghost264 on July 05, 2018, 11:04:58 AM
Thanks for update @Gabriel, hopefully you will see improvement.
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on July 24, 2018, 03:49:34 AM
Hello guys!

I had my second round of PRP + HA, done by Dr Virag & Sussmann 6 days ago (actually by Dr Sussman and her new assistant, as Dr Virag was on holydays; but the two ladies did the thing with much competence, and this time I barely felt any pain).

I was unsure about this and I still am, but at the same time I am too excited not to share it: for the first time in 10 months, my pain in erection has subsided a little!!

Actually, the first night after the shot, I had big, long-lasting and not-so-painful erections throughout the night, which was surprising to me, as after the first round of injections my penis was in so much pain that it did not get hard for like 2-3 days. Then, through the following nights (I did not get boners during the days, as I did not see any girlfriend nor had sexual stimulation), the erections subsided a little (albeit they are still there), as did the pain, which now seems stabilized. I'd say I went from a 7/10 to a 4/10 pain in erection, which is already awesome for me.

I hope SO MUCH that this is no fluke or illusion, and that the pain won't come back with a vengeance... Nothing to report about the difformity yet, but it's said to be normal after only 2 shots (I'm aware some did not see improvement even after 6 shots).

Anyway, I'll keep you updated of course!

Bye :-),

G
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: james1947 on July 24, 2018, 04:04:16 AM
Gabriel

Is he injecting in the plaque?
How many injections at one session?
Do you know the % PRP and HA and quantity?

I had PRP with no results, but if you will have results I may give it a try :)

James
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on July 24, 2018, 04:41:14 AM
Hi James!

Yes, they are injecting very, very precisely in the plaque, with live ultrasound (it's a 4-handed process). You get 4 injections in one session; I forgot how many mL, but it's quite a lot in total.

I never asked for the % of PRP and HA, but I know the quantity of PRP depends on the proportion of red cells you have in your own blood (for me they are quite numerous, so I "only" got 14 mL of PRP, which they told me was far enough).

Anyway, of course it's way too early to claim any result :-)... But we'll see, and I'll keep you up to date if things continue/stop changing!!!
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: james1947 on July 24, 2018, 10:36:46 PM
Thanks for the answer Gabriel :)

Can I know what is your platelets count? PRP stays for "Platelets Reach Plasma" so platelets quantity is important.
Mine is 1,000,000; more than double of maximum normal, so I can make the calculations according to the 14 ml you stated.
If you will have answer for the %, please let me know. I am living in the far east, not practical for me to make to fly to France.

James
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on July 25, 2018, 02:59:17 AM
Hey James,

You're welcome!

Unfortunately I have no idea of my platelets count, and don't think I ever had this kind of analysis... But I just took note of your question regarding the % and quantity of PRP/HA: it is now written in my "things-to-ask-to-Virag" file I carry with me everytime I go there, so I think I'll be able to give you an answer in late august ;-).

Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: james1947 on July 27, 2018, 03:41:39 AM
Thanks Gabriel

James
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on July 31, 2018, 06:29:02 AM
Hello guys,

So, it's been 2 weeks since my second injections, 1 month and a half since the first one. Here is what I can tell so far:
- Although the first one seems to have done pretty nothing, the second shot offered me a night of infinite-like erections and a tremendous decrease in erect pain for 12 days or so. Since 2-3 days pain has come back with a vengeance, but it's probably my fault, as I had a huge consumption of alcohol and marijuana this weekend, eating BS food for 3 days instead of my super healthy diet, and pain came back right on sunday evening... Hope it won't last... Anyway, I can say for sure the second shots greatly relieved my pain at least for a while, as this reduction happened literaly overnight after the second round.

- My left curve, which was progressing at high speed since may, has clearly stopped developing, and even subsided a little (it seems I went from ~25° to ~15°). I don't know if this is imputable to PRP, but it was concomitant.

- My hourglass, unfortunately, did not stop progressing, and even worsened a little. Since it all began 10 months ago, I've lost 1cm in diameter on the top half of the shaft, 1,5cm in length, and probably 25-30% in girth. I'd say the fact that it continue to worsen recently is not due to the PRP itself, but rather to the fact that I can't do traction or VED for 15 days after each shot... Which, as you can imagine, is hell of a dilemma. Anyway, I try to focus on the good sides, and I'm telling myself that I'm getting the Restorex if it's EU approved in january, and that it will get me some length/girth back along with the VED.........

Don't hesitate if you have questions!!

Best regards folks,

G

-
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on August 05, 2018, 07:03:55 AM
Hi folks,

So I've made a complete erection check this morning: the slight left curvature I had and which was developping very fast is now gone, or so (it's maye 5°). I resumed traction and VED just a few days ago, so these can have helped for sure, but they cannot be accountable of this recent great progress. Is PRP responsible? Or chance? Anyway, of course I rejoice of this news, but my main and terrifying problem remains my hourglass/bottlenecking and girth/length reduction which are not getting better at all...

I'll keep on doing traction and VED and see. BTW, I might have found something useful for pain, but it's too early to be sure so I'll tell you after a good amount of testing time.

Anyway, I'm flying abroad for vacation tomorrow for 12 days, so I won't be able to post until mid August :-).

Take care,

G
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: hope794 on August 05, 2018, 11:32:44 AM
Gabriel, from 25° to 5°!!! that's really great news!!
I'm really happy for you. Which effects are you noticing on EQ?

P.S. = i think that some of the issues you still have may be corrected using the VED.
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on August 05, 2018, 12:52:46 PM
Hi Hope, thanks for your post!

Well yes, that's very good news, albeit the curve had not preocupated me so much (25° was tolerable, but it's true I'm better off^^)!!

About EQ I really cannot tell, apart from this first crazy erections night I related: the thing is I had had psychogenic ED before Peyronie's, and since it started I almost always took daily cialis, so... I wont be able to judge properly until I stop cialis, which I don't want to do before inflammation stops!!

And yes, hopefully VED will help me regain some girth and length, but the problem is that so far it has not even allowed me to preserve my basic dimensions... Although it's true I could have been more compliant over the last weeks or months. We'll see, and hope!!!
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on August 24, 2018, 05:53:34 AM
Hello boys,

A little post to update you: although it has been, as always, very sinusoidal, I think a can report a little improvement regarding pain while erect. After a big setback when I ingested too much alcohol/THC/sugars (+ acting stupid), things cooled down again, and for like 10 days my night-time erections have become not-so-painful again. Also, I had sex last night for the first time since one month, and after the usual big sharp shot of pain while getting an erection in my pants, the pain subsided greatly, and I was able to achieve more than one position for the first time in 6 or 8 months (nothing glorious though, and still had to go super soft and super careful).

So, this might be due to PRP (I think so, partly at least), but maybe also to my ointment mixtures (I do think they help, but not with pain in erection actually), or chance (and that we will never know). But I'm also wondering: I have been taking potassium bicarbonate for like a week now, and I think this might be involved too... Dunno actually, I'm making a lot of research and experiments with bicarbonates/minerals lastly (after reading the interesting thread here about baking soda), I'm wondering if that could be a solid lead; we'll see!

Another good news is that left curve is now very close to 0°; I consider it gone. Bad news is that hourglass is still clearly worsening badly, despite daily full oral treatment, VED, traction, ointments... And I do think it's affecting EQ: last night again, I had no problem achieving a strong erection at the moment I was stimulated (I was under Cialis too), but I was loosing it in seconds at the moment I was not stimulated anymore. Also, the upper part of my shaft takes a little extra time to harden, which is usual I guess.

So, good and bad here; anyway, I'm having my third round of injections next thursday, I'll tell you how it went :-).

Bye guys!
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on August 30, 2018, 11:32:29 AM
Hey guys,

I just came back from my third round of injections: it has been much more painful than the second one, but still much less than the first one. Dr Virag said the additional pain of today came from the fact that they were "treating" and "sweeping" an area that had not been reached during the former sessions.

Anyway, a few important informations here:
- According to Dr Sussman, who performed as usual a long and thorough ultrasound before injecting, my plaque has subsided from 3,3mm to 3,00mm in one month. As I have read somewhere here, I have to be careful regarding such claims, as measures can vary a lot depending on the will of the pratician. I would like to believe it's good news, but since the bottlenecking has not subsided at all, I'll wait at least the next ultrasound session to rejoice about an eventual plaque reduction.

- Once again, the ultrasound showed no calcification at all, which might support the fact that plaques can actually un-calcify (cf. my previous posts).

- Drs Virag and Sussman confirmed, looking at the pictures, that my curvature went from 20° or so to 0° or so, which is obviously great news.

- Something more polemical: I asked both Drs about the potential danger of Andropeyronie compressing the plaque right at the place where my bottlenecking is located... Both told me, as Dr Galiano already had 6 months ago, that they were not big fans of Andropeyronie, especially regarding an hourglass/bottlenecking deformations like mine. Both said that they actually don't really know what to think about it, but that it would not be stupid to think that the "strangling system" of Andropeyronie has negative effects on such kind of deformation... SO, I finally just ordered the ESL40 AND the PMP, so finally I just spent 750 F^$=ING EUROS for my junk today  ;D... This HAS to stop quite soon, because money is REALLY becoming a problem here  :o.

Anyway, I keep hope and will tell you about any progress in the next few days or weeks :-)!
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on September 12, 2018, 04:17:55 AM
Hello everyone,

So, It has been now 3 months and half since my first injection, and 15 days since the last one; I was waiting to be sure about this, but I think I can now say that the two lasts injections made a huge difference!

Here is what I can report:
- Pain continues to decrease sinusoidally, injections after injections (and I mean that the changes occurred each time the day right after the injection session). Pain was approx 7-8/10 in erection before the treatment, 5-6/10 after the second injections, and now 3-4/10. Sex still has to be very careful and soft, but now I can achieve 5-6 positions (compared to only one 3 months before) and have a relatively mutually satisfying intercourse.

- The general penis inflammation feeling is going down too, also with the precious help of my essential oils mixture; it's now very rare to feel a shooting pain or strange tingling in my penis throughout the day.

- Curvature is now undoubtedly a total 0°.

- Hourglass/bottlenecking does not seem to have worsened over the last 3 weeks. It actually might have improved a tiny little bit; like I might have re-gained 2mm in diameter in one particular spot, but this is way too slight and uncertain to be significant (and I don't mesure girth, but diameter, struggling to maintin my erection with a rigid measuring tape, so...).

- EQ does not look better. The thing is, as I am on Cialis H24, I have no problem getting an erection, but at the second I stop being stimulated, it falls down... According to the Drs, it may be a venous leakage caused by the cup-shaped dorsal plaque preventing the dorsal vein from compressing properly. I hope the next injections sessions (~3) will break down some plaque and fix at least partly this issue...

Well, to conclude, I'm not cured at all but it seems like my Peyronie is FINALLY stabilizing and has stopped getting worse, which would already be a huge victory. I don't want to judge too early though, so I'm waiting for the next injection round...

Bye guys :-)

G
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: hope794 on September 12, 2018, 06:44:43 AM
Gabriel, i am really really happy to hear this!! Furthermore, i also have a dorsal plaque (in the left dorsal part, just near the glans) and i also have a venous leakage. Probably that part is the worst one to have a plaque, because of the issues it can create to the dorsal vein occlusion... I think that too.

Keep us updated!! :)
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: james1947 on September 12, 2018, 11:45:45 AM
Happy to hear your results Gabriel :)

James
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on September 12, 2018, 04:21:39 PM
Hey Hope and James, thank you very much, I appreciate your posts :)))!!

Hope, yes indeed we have an annoying condition... But, if I'm not mistaken, I believe that many folks here managed to better their EQ after long periods of daily VED use (like 12 - 18 months); I really hope it will turn out like this for us, and that our plaque will soften/shrink enough to let our dorsal vein be :)...

Oh James, I forgot to mention: I remembered your question, and asked it to Dr Sussman last time: the mix injected is actually ~12% HA and ~88% PRP, with an amount of PRP varying amongst people according to their red cells level.

I look forward to getting the next round of injections, and meanwhile I'm enjoying my new PMP, which allows me to progressively reach amazing tension power without feeling any pain... I will keep you informed ;-)!!

Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: james1947 on September 18, 2018, 05:49:41 AM
Hi Gabriel

Thank you for the answer :)

James
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Alibaba on September 18, 2018, 05:56:41 PM
1) I have no experience with this doctor or his technique.
2) I have experience with Hyaureaic acid ( sp) Rejuvenes collogen injections that were supposed to last 18 months to 2 years. My body would absorb the injection fillers in 2 weeks. The bit the your body replaces it with it's own collogen is total BS in my opinion. In my thinking, it only works in or right under the skin.
3) I have also had 2 rounds of stem cell treatment.  Again, I think it is total BS and the study I was in was discontinued because there appeared to be no benefit for any participants.
4) As I have stated before on FT,  Quick fixes are seldom a fix, costly $ that could be applied to well know more invasive proven fixes that could prevent lost time, worsening conditions, and depression that can cause you all kinds of grief.
5) I am old. Some of you are also, some not, but the time you waste on half assed fixes is time you will never get back. As an old guy, I have like a lot of you lesser experienced are testing now, have tried all the BS fixes and wish I had known about or pursued the best from the start.
6) I have a friend who just completed the xyaflex (sp again) treatments. Dick discussions have been the norm between us for a decade and he keeps me up to date. Other than pain of the injections that lasted a month at a time, it did nothing for him.
7) All the above mentions have been U.S. based by well known U.S. doctors at teaching hospitals.
For those who know me from other forums, as with my comments elsewhere, I don't have any opinion.  ;D ::)  Cheers boys.
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: JS1991 on September 18, 2018, 09:56:38 PM
1) This is important, thanks for sharing.

2) I have no experience with this, so cannot comment.

3) I do have experience with stem cells, and I've gained some girth back in my most severe area of hourglassing and the deepest dent on my penis has filled back in about halfway as well as smoothing out. I believe being in the acute phase helped with this. Were you in a placebo-controlled study?

4) This is true, I understand your skepticism.

5) Good advice, but I advocate for a research-based approach; I feel like we all do and we've been making progress because of it with certain therapies. Also, your age (and I'm assuming your chronic state of Peyronie's) could attribute to the lack of progress for you. Have you tried any of the physical therapies?

6) Xiaflex has been proven to work on some members of this board, although it does not have a 100% success rate.

7) Same.

Thanks for sharing your opinions, it's always good to know what other people think on the subject.
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Alibaba on September 19, 2018, 12:35:24 AM
There was no placebo side to the study I was in. The product manufacturer was providing product trying to build a chest full of success stories in advance to marketing it at a shockingly high price.

I agree about evidence based as long as we know where that came from. I.E., weed out the supplier financed studies or doctors selling their own technique.  Despite that, comparative results from individuals of there own results have value. Studies tend to be averaged in the end with percentages that do not tell an entire story. An example is comparing the immuno therapy I am on with the competing product.  Advertised to have 46% better outcome. Reading the details it is a numerical process to arrive at that. Bottom line is an average life expectancy of 2.7 months vs. 2.9 months.  That 2/10ths of a month by the time they get done with the 2 stage number play = their 46% claim.

Yes, I have tried the physical therapies. Weights, stretchers, vacuum pump. Have a whole box of gadgets used over about a 15 year span of time. I keep forgetting to put the XLab stretcher on eBay.
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on October 02, 2018, 11:06:05 AM
Hello guys,

Just coming home from my fourth PRP/HA session at Virag's. Hurted a little, but nothing unbearable (still MUCH better than the first time). And I scored a 19ml of PRP^^!

Anyways, according to the docs, my mean albuginea thickness went from 3mm (including ~1mm of plaque) to 2,8 / 2,9 mm ; since the beginning (approx. 3,3), that would be a 0.4/0.5mm gain, which, if true, is pretty encouraging. Plaque still covers all the top of the shaft like a cup, but according to Sussman it should show signs of regain in elasticity in the next weeks/months.

What I am truly wainting for right now is another reduction in pain: the 2 last sessions brought great results with regards to this, so I'll pay attention to what happens down there during my next nocturnal erections.

I'll keep you up to date of course!

Bye :-),

G

Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Bueller on October 18, 2018, 05:32:06 PM
Where did you get the stemcells done at? Has anyone tried gainswave? I was only using cialis and pentox and I felt like my condition stabilized but 5 weeks ago it got way worse so now I'm desperate for any help.
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on October 20, 2018, 03:57:28 AM
Hey Bueller,

My treatment is not about stemcells, but PRP, which I'm having with Dr Virag & Sussman in Paris (more détails along the thread).

I tried gainswave, as many here, with good but ephemeral results on ED, and none on Peyronies Disease itself (as almost everyone here).

Anyway, a good use of the research function will provide you with a lot of informations; if you still have questions later, we'll be here to answer them !
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on November 11, 2018, 06:37:03 AM
Hey guys,

Just a little update to tell you... nothing  ;D.

Unfortunately, my latest injections seem to have had absolutely zero effect.

Besides, I made a big measures/pics check: actually for the whole time, my hourglass was indeed still progressing, but very slowly; it was actually more "normalizing", as the various lumps I had became what now looks like almost perfect symetrical concave curves on both sides, with a loss of around 30% total volume on the distal part.

Shortening, however, has really stopped, stabilized at around -1,2cm; I tend to think that intensive sessions of PMP and recently ESL40 since the end of summer are playing a big role here.

Anyway, after a huge burst of hope with a great diminution of pain, this injection protocol is kinda disappointing (apart from being crazy expensive); normal sex/life is still not an option... I think I'm gonna go for the 5 over 6 session (this tuesday), and if it does nothing again, dismiss the last session and explore ketogenic diet.

I'll keep you informed; bye guys  ;)!
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: james1947 on November 11, 2018, 09:55:30 AM
Sorry Gabriel it didn't helped you, but I am not surprised.
Done PRP in the past, helped nothing.
I had hope that PRP and Hyaluronic acid will help as where I am living is relative cheap.
Thank you for updating

James
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: DarrenBent on February 20, 2020, 08:55:56 PM
Hi all,

New here and a first post. First some background:

I'm 33 and about 5 weeks ago, almost out of nowhere, noticed an upwards curvature on my morning wood of about (at a massive estimate) 20-25 degrees. No pain, no erection difficulties - other than the difficulty of seeing a stranger's penis between my legs.

Several weeks of anxiety, stress, sleepless nights, relentless googling, reading and failing to translate a lifetime's worth of medical studies, a useless trip to the GUM clinic, an almost as useless but at least sympathetic trip to the GP, spending £50 on supplements, ringing every private andrology and urology clinic in London on my lunch breaks and being told by by each one that either only the treatment they offer works, or a receptionist telling me that to get an opinion and pricelist I'll need to to pay £300 for a consultation, I'm finally reaching some sort of decision on a treatment to pursue:

And one of them is PRP with a Dr Abbas Khadra at Moorgate Andrology in London. Who claims they used to offer Xiapex before it was withdrawn from Europe, but found it wasn't popular. I had a Facetime consult with him in which he mentioned Dr Virag and so I believe he offers this same treatment with HA - I will ask. Dr Khadra's course however is only 3 sessions, one month apart, at an eyewatering £1500. He claims the advancments in PRP are relatively new, but he's treated over 500 patients, and this is his advised course for active phase Peyronies Disease. He claims great success in these early stages (don't they all!) and as good as guarantees get in medicine claims I should make an almost 100% recovery (don't they all!).

I must say I was convinced. But hours of devouring posts on here and the limited internet articles and now I'm more hesitant. The 2 success stories on here however have given me hope.

Has anyone heard of Dr Khadra? I hope to make a decision in the next week or so to hopefully try and stop this Peyronies Disease in it's tracks early. So I'll try and update if I do.

***BTW...The other favoured treatment is another contraversial one. Storz Medical shockwave treatment. 8 sessions. But more than half the price and also claimed to have major success by the provider since 2013 - "70% of patients have complete removal of plaque and recovery, halt of Peyronies Disease development is almost guaranteed". Leon-Sulaiman Almashan if anyone has heard of him?
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: DarrenBent on February 20, 2020, 08:58:26 PM
Oh and the PRP treatment (in fact both) also provides a vacuum pump to remodel daily during the 3 months.
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: TonySa on February 21, 2020, 03:29:47 PM
Neither approaches are helpful for peyronies, check out the survivss as l guide here for positively demonstrated treatments.
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: MacMathuna on May 11, 2020, 09:10:16 AM
Is there a way to get this if you don't live in france?
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: jj21 on May 12, 2020, 09:14:07 AM
Has anyone actually seen any permanent improvement with this?
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: melting on May 12, 2020, 10:55:53 AM
Gabriel had improvements and the way he describes it makes sense.   

But it seems to only have solved a part of it. He describes a de-calcification and I personally experienced the same with my diy mixes(signature). The de-calcification gets rid of the harder parts of the plaque but most of the basic plaque remains(which I only got rid of after daily application of transdermals for many months, daily several times, combined with traction+ved).

When the plaque gets "softer" and rid of the harder part there can be an improvement as it's more flexible.

Also interesting, Gabriel, that you still had hourglass and I posited based on anatomy, in another thread, that hourglass is due to deeper plaques and bends due to higher(towards skin) plaques. I understand your doc targeted deeper plaques only later on.

What's again clear is that Peyronies Disease in most cases has to be target from several "angles". 

PRP if it helps with healing can probably help a lot in the early stages? The problem with Peyronies Disease is that it is bad spot for the body to heal an injury, bad circulation, constant stretching(erection) of the injured area. So the body "patches" the plaque up in a crude way. PRP especially if it stays longer active due to the HYALURONIC ACID, then could possibly help a lot with the initial inflammation.
But to me it sounds like it wont be able to "dissolve" the plaque completely. That's where other treatment need to be combined, imo, like xiaflex, or my "ghetto" diy dmso+x. (and possibly traction and VED).   

I feel like I often read how people just use 1 treatment or one chemical or supplement. Just theorizing but PRP & HYALURONIC ACID followed by Xiaflex(all while keeping secondary inflammation due to injection down!) along with careful traction&VED at some point makes sense(to me).
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: jj21 on May 13, 2020, 06:26:06 AM
How would one go about getting this type of treatment, where is it even available ?
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Bud luck on December 16, 2020, 10:39:13 PM
Where is Dr Virag located? I'm runing out of options to get better, I will go to him
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Bud luck on December 16, 2020, 10:43:25 PM
I will like to know where Dr Virag is located, I will love to visit him
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: NeoV on December 17, 2020, 01:55:04 AM
For the record,

These injections are everywhere in Japan, at many different clinics, combined with PRP. You can't use insurance but the costs are pretty reasonable.
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Bud luck on December 17, 2020, 02:55:47 PM
I will like to see Dr Virag, but I have couple questions:
How much is per visit?
I speak English and Spanish but not French, is not a problem right?.
I really need to try those injections
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Alex83 on March 12, 2021, 08:08:51 AM
Hey everyone, what did you think of R. Virag and his practices? I think he doesn't do surgery anymore but he was recommended to me for my congenital curvature, surely one of his colleagues must perform the surgery.
Title: Re: PRP & HYALURONIC ACID
Post by: Gabriel on March 21, 2021, 06:45:52 AM
Hey guys,

Just a little message here, passing by quickly. Please read the entire thread for all the infos.

Virag is in Paris, and will offer you 5 to 6 sessions of injections, which will cost you 500€ each, without any reinbursment.

3 years after my 5 sessions, and after having tried nearly 100 types of treatments (click my nickname and see my big post about "what has helped, what has not"), I would definitely not recommend Virag's treatment. It's mad expensive, backed with well-marketed but actually poor science, very traumatic, and in most cases (including mine) shows very little to no benefit in the long-term. For me, now that time has passed and I can put things in perspective, I'm not even sure that the small improvements I saw (eg small reduction in curvature) were linked to this injections. And in any case, it did NOT stop neither the pain, nor the diformity progression 3 years later.

So, stay strong and keep searching the forum: there are plenty of other safer and probably more efficient options for you to try here buddies.

Cheers,

G