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Peyronies Disease TREATMENT Discussion Boards => Alternative Treatments of Peyronie's Disease => Topic started by: slowandsteady on December 17, 2009, 07:11:17 PM

Title: MAGNESIUM related topics
Post by: slowandsteady on December 17, 2009, 07:11:17 PM
The full text (http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v57/n10/full/1601689a.html) of an article in Nature on the biological role of magnesium is available. One of the roles of Mg is in apoptosis (cell death):
QuoteThere is a strong relation between Mg and the immune system. We have reviewed different studies showing the role of Mg in different aspects of the immune response, both in animal models and in human systems. Mg involvement on inflammation, apoptosis, thymocyte gene expression and even in histological and cytological effects in animal models, as well as its relation with asthma, the immune system in athletes, aging processes and apoptosis in humans have been discussed.

One potential connection with Peyronies Disease is that Peyronies Disease tissue has accumulation of some cells that don't die when they should. Another potential connection is the disregulated immune response involved with Peyronies Disease (there are some links between Mg deficiency and autoimmune illnesses).

I've never tried the MgCl form of magnesium, but I think I will.

s&s
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: George999 on December 17, 2009, 07:57:48 PM
My suggestion would be to first try to get a spectracell (http://www.spectracell.com) test to actually see what your nutrient levels really are before assuming that magnesium would be helpful.  - George
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: slowandsteady on June 02, 2010, 01:11:45 PM
Here's an article on an in vitro experiment looking at magnesium deficiency and fibrosis, Intralymphocyte magnesium decrease in patients with primary aldosteronism. Possible links with cardiac remodelling (http://www.john-libbey-eurotext.fr/en/revues/bio_rech/mrh/e-docs/00/03/FA/FC/article.phtml).

QuoteConsequently, to shed some light on the relationships between magnesium and tissue fibrosis we tested the in vitro effects of incubating human fibroblasts in low magnesium medium on mRNA collagen I and III gene expression by northern blot analysis. Both collagen I and III mRNA gene expression were increased by magnesium deprivation. The increase in collagen expression was similar for both collagen I and III. These data are in favour of a potential link between magnesium homeostasis and collagen synthesis. A physiopathologic mechanism linking magnesium homeostasis to the state of collagen turnover may have important clinical correlates such as cardiac remodelling in congestive heart failure.

And in the discussion:
QuoteThese data are in favour of a potential link between magnesium and collagen synthesis. An obvious limitation of the present study relies on the in vitro model which is far from the physiological condition in that the cells underwent 24 hours of complete magnesium deprivation. Despite this limitation we believe that these preliminary data confirm the anecdotal reports of increased fibrosis in animal models of magnesium deficiency. Shivakumar et al. describes in rats that the aortas of rats on a magnesium-deficient diet demonstrate an increase in the rate of collagen synthesis [12]. The same authors reported a similar increase in collagen synthesis in the heart of rats on a magnesium-deficient diet [13].

We know that Peyronies Disease is characterized by pathological collagen I and III deposition.

Here's a rat study I find interesting, Effects of oral magnesium supplementation on chronic experimental cyclosporin A nephrotoxicity in rats (http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200102/000020010200A0758168.php). Apparently the immunosuppressant drug cyclosporin A induces Mg deficiency. The authors of this study wanted to find out if supplemental Mg can overcome this.

QuoteHypomagnesemia is a common finding in cyclosporin A (CsA)-treated patients and has been proposed as both a cause and a consequence of CsA-induced nephrotoxicity. The present experiment was conducted to investigate the role of magnesium (Mg) depletion in the pathogenesis of chronic CsA nephrotoxicity and especially about interstitial fibrosis in rats. Rats kept on a low-sodium diet with different Mg content (normal Mg 0.05%, high Mg 0.6%) were randomly assigned to treatment with CsA 15 mg/kg/day (CsA) or olive oil 1 ml/kg/day vehicle (VH) s.c, for 28 days. Food ingestion in VH animals was adjusted to the intake of CsA animals. With normal Mg intake, CsA induced hypomagnesemia and the rats developed characteristic renal histological changes including striped interstitial fibrosis that resembles the human lesion in patients receiving CsA therapy. Magnesium supplementation raised plasma Mg level to normal and abolished CsA-induced renal fibrosis with mononuclear cell infiltration. CsA accelerated renal cortical mRNA expression of extracellular matrix proteins, plasminogen activator inhibitor type l , transforming growth factor-.BETA.1 and a macrophage chemoattractant, osteopontin, but magnesium supplementation suppressed mRNA expression. Systemic blood pressure was not affected either with CsA or different Mg intake, but CsA treatment increased renal vascular resistance in the normal Mg group while not in the high Mg group. CsA decreased glomerular filtration rate, while Mg supplementation prevented it. In conclusion, Mg depletion was implicated in the pathogenesis of chronic CsA-induced interstitial fibrosis and glomerular dysfunction. It was suggested that Mg replacement prevented CsA-induced renal interstitial fibrosis by attenuating mRNA expression of transforming growth factor-.BETA.1 and osteopontin. Furthermore, Mg replacement protected CsA-induced glomerular dysfunction possibly by ameliorating renal vasoconstrictor action of CsA.

So we see increased fibrosis, TGF-beta, and the macrophage chemoattractant osteopontin in these rats with chemically induced Mg deficiency. I think there's some evidence that TGF-beta can cause an increase in osteopontin too.

It's remarkable how many of the mechanisms involved in Peyronies Disease are also involved in Mg deficiency.

s&s
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: slowandsteady on June 03, 2010, 05:32:19 PM
Over the next few weeks I'm going to increase my magnesium intake. To start with, I'm trying an attack dose of 1200 mg/day of elemental magnesium from magnesium glycinate, in three divided doses spread out through the day. I might back off to about 800 mg/day after 2-3 weeks.

The current US RDA for Mg is 400 mg, though I understand it will be raised to 500 mg. Most people are apparently deficient in magnesium, and it appears to be a challenge to get as much as recommended by diet alone.

Things that deplete magnesium include intensive endurance sports (any other marathoners out there?), coffee, and alcohol.

Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: SSmithe on June 03, 2010, 07:52:33 PM
Slowandsteady,
Keep us posted on your Magnesium efforts.  I too am going to start taking it in smaller doses than you as my body doesn't want too any more pills...
SSmithe
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: slowandsteady on June 04, 2010, 02:36:30 PM
Quote from: SSmithe on June 03, 2010, 07:52:33 PM
Slowandsteady,
Keep us posted on your Magnesium efforts.
SSmithe

Going to 1200 mg/day of magnesium glycinate might be a bit much (gave me the runs). I'm backing off to 800 mg for now.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: skunkworks on June 05, 2010, 10:43:44 AM
I've been taking magnesium baths for a few weeks now, and the one definite improvement has been no more firm flaccid penis. It now hangs like it used to before injury.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: Fred22 on June 05, 2010, 02:00:13 PM
Quote from: slowandsteady on June 03, 2010, 05:32:19 PM
. Most people are apparently deficient in magnesium, and it appears to be a challenge to get as much as recommended by diet alone.

Why would you assume that "most people are apparently deficient in magnesium"?
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: slowandsteady on June 05, 2010, 07:36:19 PM
Quote from: Fred22 on June 05, 2010, 02:00:13 PM
Why would you assume that "most people are appaently deficient in magnesium"?
I was using the word 'apparently' is a qualifier. It's something you hear bandied about in forums etc., and I hadn't looked into in depth to find hard data to back that up.

Blood tests are uninformative for plasma Mg since it's highly regulated by the body (same for calcium); a magnesium loading test seems to be the best method of testing (ref (http://jic.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/20/1/3)).

I was able to find this paper in the European Journal of Cardiovascular Prevention & Rehabilitation, Environmental magnesium deficiency as a cardiovascular risk factor (http://journals.lww.com/ejcpr/Abstract/1996/02000/Environmental_magnesium_deficiency_as_a.2.aspx):
QuoteMagnesium is abundant in nature and the major routes of intake are through food and water. Through changes in the treatment of foodstuffs and altered diets, as well as increased use of surface water with low magnesium content, magnesium deficiency is present in modern society. Magnesium deficiency causes cardiac arrhythmia and several studies suggest that a low level of magnesium in drinking water is a risk factor for myocardial infarction, particularly among men.

Aha, here's some good evidence in PMID 9513928 (http://pubmed.gov/9513928), Dietary magnesium intake in a French adult population:
QuoteMagnesium intake was assessed using six 24-h dietary records during a 1-year period in 5,448 subjects (3,111 women 35-60 yrs old and 2,337 men 45-60 yrs old) in the SU.VI.MAX cohort, selected at a national level in France. The overall mean dietary intake was estimated at 369 +/- 106 mg/day in men and 280 +/- 84 mg/day in women. 77 per cent of women and 72 per cent of men had dietary magnesium intakes lower than recommended dietary allowances; 23 per cent of women and 18 per cent of men consumed less than 2/3 of these RDA. A strong positive correlation existed between energy and magnesium intake (r = 0.79; p < 10(-4)). Slight variations were observed according to socio-professional and educational levels and place of residence. Cereal products represented the main contribution in both men (21 per cent) and women (19.8 per cent). In men, the second source was represented by alcoholic beverages (11.7 per cent), which were a lower source of magnesium in women (5.5 per cent). Dairy products, vegetables, meat and poultry were the other main sources of dietary magnesium intake.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: newguy on June 09, 2010, 06:05:35 AM
I'll be interested to see how this pans out. It's always good to explore new areas using the information we have about our condition. I was thinking about doing a post on magnesium on my peyronie's disease (http://www.peyronies-disease.co.uk/) blog, but I think I'll wait until we know more. I have mentioned coq10 on it though, and have placed the recent study there.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: slowandsteady on June 09, 2010, 01:57:21 PM
For me, taking 400mg of magnesium glycinate at once is too much (intestinal upset). I'm working my way down to 200mg twice daily.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: skunkworks on June 10, 2010, 05:58:20 AM
Quote from: slowandsteady on June 05, 2010, 07:36:19 PMIn men, the second source was represented by alcoholic beverages (11.7 per cent), which were a lower source of magnesium in women (5.5 per cent).

Hmm that is strange to see there, as the vast majority of alcoholics are deficient in magnesium.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: Fred22 on July 04, 2010, 02:43:01 PM
Don't take your magnesium and D3 at the same time.  According to Drugs.com interaction checker, this can increase your risk of hypermagnesemia.  The interaction was rated as "moderate" but especially risky if one should have any kidney problems.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: George999 on July 04, 2010, 05:14:25 PM
Fred,  That warning really has to do with people on dialysis.  I have been taking 12,000 IU Vitamin D3 and lots of Magnesium for a year now and have had no problems at all.  If you look at hypermagnesemia on Wikipedia you will see that it causes hypocalcemia.  Therefore if you are checking your serum Vitamin D levels AND your serum calcium levels regularly like you should be if you are taking more than 2000IU of Vitamin D3/day, you will be at no risk of hypermagnesemia.  If the drugs.com warning is to be taken seriously, how do you explain that many multivitamins contain both Vitamin D3 AND magnesium?  The answer has to do with the fact that the problem is NOT with how much you are taking, but rather with your blood levels of Vitamin D.  You get them too high (200ng/ml+) and it can screw up a lot of things, magnesium being only one of them.  That is the part that drugs.com does not explain.  They are only covering themselves in light of the fact that there is a certain hysteria in the medical community about imagined risks with Vitamin D.  The real message here is that IF YOU ARE TAKING VITAMIN D, GET YOUR BLOOD LEVELS OF VITAMIN D CHECKED REGULARLY until you know how your body is handling it.  UNLESS you have another underlying problem, you will always be safe with Vitamin D3 blood levels around 50ng/ml.  I would also NOT take more than around 600mg/day magnesium, since it puts additional stress on the kidneys to eliminate it.  IF magnesium is giving you the "runs", that is a sign you need to cut back on it.  It is also one of the reasons it is hard to overdose on magnesium.  It tends to let you know when you're getting too much.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: slowandsteady on July 09, 2010, 04:15:59 PM
Has anyone else given magnesium a try? I feel like I'm getting great results with a modest dose of 400 mg (inflammation is way down, plaques are not painful).
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: Fred22 on July 16, 2010, 12:11:40 PM
Quote from: slowandsteady on July 09, 2010, 04:15:59 PM
Has anyone else given magnesium a try? I feel like I'm getting great results with a modest dose of 400 mg (inflammation is way down, plaques are not painful).

I've taken magnesium off and on for several years for symptoms of mitral valve prolapse.  I just started back on 600 mg mag. citrate.  Haven't noticed any improvment yet, but I haven't been on but maybe a couple of weeks  (I need to start keepimng a journal on this stuff).

Fred
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: Farinthesouth on July 29, 2010, 12:44:59 PM



Quote from: slowandsteady on July 09, 2010, 04:15:59 PM
Has anyone else given magnesium a try? I feel like I'm getting great results with a modest dose of 400 mg (inflammation is way down, plaques are not painful).

Hello: How long did you take the dose up to when you begun to feel the results?

Thanks
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: George999 on July 29, 2010, 05:43:23 PM
NOTE that S&S is taking magnesium MALATE.  Malic Acid has its own health effects so it is really hard to know whether the benefit S&S is seeing is due to the Magnesium component or the Malic Acid component.  I am just beginning to transition off of Magnesium Citrate, which certainly hasn't had any effect for me over the years, over to Magnesium Malate.  I think it is a win win with both Magnesium and Malic Acid having potential health benefits.  Certainly I don't know of any great stand alone benefits from Citric Acid.  - George
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: slowandsteady on August 05, 2010, 04:37:17 PM
I'm still taking magnesium and still having good results with it. Since I last posted I've been trying different forms. In addition to malate I've tried some of the chelated forms patented by Albion like Mg glycinate (like this one (http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-Chelated-Magnesium-180-Tablets/10928?at=0)). I've only been able to take 200 mg Mg this way due to diarrhea.

It appears that taking l-arginine with magnesium might work well together to prevent loose stools (which you really don't want, since it throws the absorption of everything in the gut out of whack and depletes you of electrolytes). From this source (http://george-eby-research.com/html/taurine.html):

QuoteIn several people trying this offbeat technique, three grams of L-arginine (in compressed tablet form) per meal caused severe to extremely severe constipation while using magnesium supplementation that previously caused diarrhea. Serious constipation did not seem to occur with one gram of L-arginine per meal, although is could cause mild constipation. On the other hand, the literature says that too much L-arginine will cause diarrhea, not constipation. Who knows!

I found the same in a literature search as this writer did, that high doses of l-arginine cause diarrhea instead of constipation. Maybe things are different with magnesium in the mix.

I'll give that a test, as I'd like to go up to 400 mg of Mg glycinate. I think I'll try 500 mg of l-arginine, 100 mg of B6 as P5P, and 100 mg of pycnogenol at bedtime.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: Fred22 on August 06, 2010, 02:46:11 PM
Quote from: slowandsteady on August 05, 2010, 04:37:17 PM
I'm still taking magnesium and still having good results with it. Since I last posted I've been trying different forms. In addition to malate I've tried some of the chelated forms patented by Albion like Mg glycinate (like this one (http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-Chelated-Magnesium-180-Tablets/10928?at=0)). I've only been able to take 200 mg Mg this way due to diarrhea.

It appears that taking l-arginine with magnesium might work well together to prevent loose stools (which you really don't want, since it throws the absorption of everything in the gut out of whack and depletes you of electrolytes). From this source (http://george-eby-research.com/html/taurine.html):

QuoteIn several people trying this offbeat technique, three grams of L-arginine (in compressed tablet form) per meal caused severe to extremely severe constipation while using magnesium supplementation that previously caused diarrhea. Serious constipation did not seem to occur with one gram of L-arginine per meal, although is could cause mild constipation. On the other hand, the literature says that too much L-arginine will cause diarrhea, not constipation. Who knows!

I found the same in a literature search as this writer did, that high doses of l-arginine cause diarrhea instead of constipation. Maybe things are different with magnesium in the mix.

I'll give that a test, as I'd like to go up to 400 mg of Mg glycinate. I think I'll try 500 mg of l-arginine, 100 mg of B6 as P5P, and 100 mg of pycnogenol at bedtime.

Seems you should be able to take more than 200 mg magnesium without causing diarrhea.  I take the NOW Foods mag. citrate and can take 400 (their recommendation) with no problem.  Of course, I'm chronically constipated due to anti-anxiety, anti-depressat meds. Fred
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: slowandsteady on August 06, 2010, 02:56:09 PM
Quote from: Fred22 on August 06, 2010, 02:46:11 PM
Seems you should be able to take more than 200 mg magnesium without causing diarrhea.  I take the NOW Foods mag. citrate and can take 400 (their recommendation) with no problem.  Of course, I'm chronically constipated due to anti-anxiety, anti-depressat meds. Fred
I don't get full blown diarrhea, just loose stools. It seems to throw off my electrolyte balance a bit, making distance runs more difficult.

The arginine trick seems to be working so far. I took 400 mg mag glycinate with 1 g arginine last night, and so far so good. I have a 12 mile run tomorrow.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: newguy on August 06, 2010, 07:15:38 PM
Thanks for keeping us informed s&s. How is your peyronie's in general nowadays? Quite stable?
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: slowandsteady on August 08, 2010, 01:22:52 PM
Things are mostly going very well, no worsening and I'm not in pain. I feel as though I'm just starting with magnesium, and that it might hold a lot of potential. It takes a while apparently to tank up if you're deficient. I still take NAC, ALCAR, and curcumin (and vitamin D of course).
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: newguy on August 08, 2010, 02:10:46 PM
Here an interesting article about magnesium raising testosterone levels: http://www.ergo-log.com/magnesiumtestosterone.html
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: newguy on August 31, 2010, 10:26:56 PM
Have you settled on a type of magnesium to use? I'm going to put an order in an iherb soon for a few supplements, and am thinking of adding magnesium. I would prefer one that doesn't give me bad side effects such as a bad stomach and so on. I don't mind if there are short term side effects to a supplement/medication, as long as it's not something I always have to deal with. I'm going to start on Q10 soon, since the positive study came out, and maybe will give magnesium a try too. I don't appear to be having much pain of late, which is positive, but I want to keep ploughing ahead with what are seen to be potentially useful treatments.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: slowandsteady on September 02, 2010, 05:45:17 PM
I seem to get some amount of intestinal upset no matter which form of oral Mg I try. I'm actually experimenting with topical magnesium in the form of magnesium "oil" (which is MgCl2 brine) and magnesium sulfate cream.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: newguy on September 02, 2010, 08:22:26 PM
Quote from: slowandsteady on September 02, 2010, 05:45:17 PM
I seem to get some amount of intestinal upset no matter which form of oral Mg I try. I'm actually experimenting with topical magnesium in the form of magnesium "oil" (which is MgCl2 brine) and magnesium sulfate cream.

That's a shame. Maybe it depends on the individual. I'm definitely interested in giving some form of magnesium a test run. Have you tried Magnesium Taurate?

I just noticed on the heart scan blog, there is mention of magnesium in the latest post;

"I generally advise supplementation with the well-absorbed forms, magnesium glycinate (400 mg twice per day) or magnesium malate (1200 mg twice per day). Because they are well-absorbed, they are least likely to lead to diarrhea (as magnesium oxide commonly does)."

You're already tried both of those of course, but as it was on toic I thought I'd include it here.

Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: Fred22 on September 13, 2010, 12:31:17 PM
Quote from: newguy on September 02, 2010, 08:22:26 PM
Quote from: slowandsteady on September 02, 2010, 05:45:17 PM
I seem to get some amount of intestinal upset no matter which form of oral Mg I try. I'm actually experimenting with topical magnesium in the form of magnesium "oil" (which is MgCl2 brine) and magnesium sulfate cream.

That's a shame. Maybe it depends on the individual. I'm definitely interested in giving some form of magnesium a test run. Have you tried Magnesium Taurate?

I just noticed on the heart scan blog, there is mention of magnesium in the latest post;

"I generally advise supplementation with the well-absorbed forms, magnesium glycinate (400 mg twice per day) or magnesium malate (1200 mg twice per day). Because they are well-absorbed, they are least likely to lead to diarrhea (as magnesium oxide commonly does)."

You're already tried both of those of course, but as it was on toic I thought I'd include it here.



Magnesium citrate is also well absorbed according Dr. Andrew Weil.  I take the citrate, but it can cause some GI distress also.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: angelinadiaz on September 30, 2010, 03:15:55 AM
Hey i have heard that cherries,berries contain lots of magnesium and potassium which are beneficial for peyronies disease.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: newguy on September 30, 2010, 12:41:53 PM
I eventually went with Magnesium Malate. Once again I'll make this a five to six month trial and will evaluate the situation at that time. Many peope have magnesium deficiency I believe, so I see more up side than down. Once again, I'm not really noticing any side effects of note.
Title: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: MikeSmith on October 09, 2010, 04:25:11 PM
I can't believe I just read this.  I never came across this before...Considering the level of calcium I have in the tunica (without injury) I think this might be part of it...not to mention I have no calcitonin production due to thyroid disorder (and synthroid does not replace calcitonin)... finally this is starting to make sense for my case (30 yr old / no injury):

Magnesium is needed for calcium absorption. Without enough magnesium, calcium can collect in the soft tissues and cause one type of arthritis. Not only does calcium collect in the soft tissues of arthritics, it is poorly, if at all, absorbed into their blood and bones. But taking more calcium is not the answer; it only amplifies the problem. In fact, excessive calcium intake and insufficient magnesium can contribute to both of these diseases. Magnesium taken in proper dosages can solve the problem of calcium deficiency.

When calcium is elevated in the blood it stimulates the secretion of a hormone called calcitonin and suppresses the secretion of the parathyroid hormone (PTH). These hormones regulate the levels of calcium in our bones and soft tissues and are, therefore, directly related to both osteoporosis and arthritis. PTH draws calcium out of the bones and deposits it in the soft tissues, while calcitonin increases calcium in our bones and keeps it from being absorbed in our soft tissues. Sufficient amounts of magnesium determine this delicate and important balance.

Because magnesium suppresses PTH and stimulates calcitonin it helps put calcium into our bones, preventing osteoporosis, and helps remove it from our soft tissues eliminating some forms of arthritis. A magnesium deficiency will prevent this chemical action from taking place in our bodies, and no amount of calcium can correct it. While magnesium helps our body absorb and retain calcium, too much calcium prevents magnesium from being absorbed. So taking large amounts of calcium without adequate magnesium may either create malabsorption or a magnesium deficiency. Whichever occurs, only magnesium can break the cycle.
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: Iceman on October 10, 2010, 02:06:05 AM
so what does this mean???
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: Tim468 on October 10, 2010, 10:45:13 AM
To me it means this: If you have a problem (and most of us do) than perhaps we should check out serum Ca and Mg levels and also consider a densitometry study (requires an MD order) to look at bone stores of calcium (serum levels may be normal but total body calcium might be down).

If we are out of whack, we might want to consider supplementing with Mg and or Ca, but not with just Ca alone.

Tim
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: MikeSmith on October 10, 2010, 01:40:24 PM
yeah thats what i meant ... i have been desperately searching for WHY scar tissue in the tunica would calcify for 10 months... finally, i came across an article that seemed to make sense in my case (regarding calcitonin) and in the case of a lot of people (magnesium might be low).  so, that was the point.

So yeah - I think people with calcified plaques (particularly those that calcified quickly like mine) should get magnesium & calcium checked in their blood... i'm not sure what the lab order is specifically for this.  i think it's a "free calcium" lab order - not calcium ion... i will find out soon.   (also btw if you crave chocolate, that supposedly means you are low in magnesium...or are about to have your period...)

in general, i think taking a magnesium supplement would be wise as well.  

in my own case, i am going to get my calcitonin level checked - but thats due to existing thyroid problems.  id be surprised if other guys here had an issue with that.

Quote from: Tim468 on October 10, 2010, 10:45:13 AM
To me it means this: If you have a problem (and most of us do) than perhaps we should check out serum Ca and Mg levels and also consider a densitometry study (requires an MD order) to look at bone stores of calcium (serum levels may be normal but total body calcium might be down).

If we are out of whack, we might want to consider supplementing with Mg and or Ca, but not with just Ca alone.

Tim
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: slowandsteady on October 11, 2010, 03:00:19 PM
I have a thread on magnesium. There are a lot of parallels with magnesium deficiency and what happens in Peyronie's tissue at the cellular level.

I also cannot recommend vitamin K2 (and of course vitamin D) enough for reversal of soft tissue calcification.
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: MikeSmith0 on October 13, 2010, 07:02:51 AM
Quote from: slowandsteady on October 11, 2010, 03:00:19 PM
I have a thread on magnesium. There are a lot of parallels with magnesium deficiency and what happens in Peyronie's tissue at the cellular level.

I also cannot recommend vitamin K2 (and of course vitamin D) enough for reversal of soft tissue calcification.

Oh i actually did a search before I posted & didn't see it...glad we concur though.  I looked into the vit K you recommended.  Would you choose the drops over the pills?  I was thinking - just one thing less to go through the digestive system (with pentox, arganine, pyncogenol, viagra, vit E, vit D, etc....)  my stomach is taking a beating.
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: slowandsteady on October 13, 2010, 04:07:39 PM
Quote from: MikeSmith0 on October 13, 2010, 07:02:51 AM
I was thinking - just one thing less to go through the digestive system (with pentox, arganine, pyncogenol, viagra, vit E, vit D, etc....)  my stomach is taking a beating.
I like the Thorne drops for K2-MK4 (these are taken orally; I use 2 drops/day). I also take a weekly gelcap of K2-MK7.
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: crashbandit on October 19, 2010, 10:59:43 PM
I just got a bottle of megnesium malate 150mg tabs. I take 3 of these a day. Do you think I may need to supplement calcium too? I really hope not... Can too much magnesium deplete the calcium?
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: MikeSmith on October 20, 2010, 06:05:57 PM
Quote from: crashbandit on October 19, 2010, 10:59:43 PM
I just got a bottle of megnesium malate 150mg tabs. I take 3 of these a day. Do you think I may need to supplement calcium too? I really hope not... Can too much magnesium deplete the calcium?

im not sure... vit D and magnesium, calcium, phospherous all interact... but i dont really know how.

i think i got overly excited about mg.   my levels are normal.  and, a doctor told me people with hypercalcemia (high calclium) do not have higher rates of Peyronies Disease... but i dont think there's been a study on this per se.  he reiterated that the problem is with collagen, not calcium - until after the collagen creates a problem.  it's really a collagen disorder first. 
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: slowandsteady on October 21, 2010, 06:39:20 PM
Quote from: crashbandit on October 19, 2010, 10:59:43 PM
I just got a bottle of megnesium malate 150mg tabs. I take 3 of these a day. Do you think I may need to supplement calcium too? I really hope not... Can too much magnesium deplete the calcium?

If your vitamin D level has been normalized by supplementation and you eat leafy greens and maybe occasional dairy, I don't think you need to take any additional calcium at all. Magnesium doesn't deplete calcium, only the other way around.
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: crashbandit on October 22, 2010, 01:13:50 AM
Quote from: slowandsteady on October 21, 2010, 06:39:20 PM
If your vitamin D level has been normalized by supplementation and you eat leafy greens and maybe occasional dairy, I don't think you need to take any additional calcium at all. Magnesium doesn't deplete calcium, only the other way around.

Vitamin D is linked to magnesium? What do you mean vitamin D has to be normalized?
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: slowandsteady on October 22, 2010, 10:02:22 AM
I mean that most people are vitamin D deficient, and need to get their levels up to about 50 ng/ml (and the argument can be made the those with Peyronies Disease should go higher, to around 80  ng/ml). This advice is good for anyone, as vitamin D is perhaps the single most important supplement you can take. I would recommend doing some reading on grassroots health (http://www.grassrootshealth.net/) or the vitamin D council (http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/) sites. The best form of D is D3 in an oil filled gelcap, which a lot of manufacturers make.
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: MikeSmith0 on October 23, 2010, 11:56:53 AM
i think i might have a problem absorbing vitamin D.  my levels are actually below normal and only went up like 1 ng/ml in the 1 month that i supplemented w/ 1000 IU (or mg?) D3 pills from Whole Foods.  Also, I spent some time in the sun...quite a bit actually.  Does the body not store vit D that well?  I thought it was fat soluable and so then it kinda stayed around.
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: slowandsteady on October 27, 2010, 08:41:57 PM
I needed 5000 IU to get to 50 ng/ml. 1000 IU sounds like it's too little for you.

My blood levels of D went down to the mid twenties over the summer when I took a break, thinking that the sun I got was going to make up the difference. I'm back at 5000 IU now.
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: crashbandit on October 27, 2010, 09:22:09 PM
Quote from: slowandsteady on October 27, 2010, 08:41:57 PM
I needed 5000 IU to get to 50 ng/ml. 1000 IU sounds like it's too little for you.

My blood levels of D went down to the mid twenties over the summer when I took a break, thinking that the sun I got was going to make up the difference. I'm back at 5000 IU now.

Do you notice any difference in overall well-being during the dip and elevation of your Vit D levels? 
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: BSSS on October 28, 2010, 01:11:15 PM
FWIW,

I've always suspected calcium (and some inflammatory response) related problems being involved in my peyronie's.

At about the same time I acquired peyronie's I also had my first bout with kidney stones.  They were the calcium based type.  I also noticed bone spurs developing in places I hadn't seen them before; my kneecaps for instance have protrusions now that they didn't have before.  All this stuff happened at about the same time to me and when I mention it to my primary I might as well be speaking Greek.

Anyone know what causes magnesium deficiency?

Thanks,
BSSS

Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: slowandsteady on November 02, 2010, 06:47:00 PM
Quote from: crashbandit on October 27, 2010, 09:22:09 PMDo you notice any difference in overall well-being during the dip and elevation of your Vit D levels? 
To be honest it's really hard to say. Vitamin D usage might show up in fewer flu episodes.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: slowandsteady on November 02, 2010, 07:03:00 PM
I've been able to take 400 mg of magnesium at night. Believe it or not, it's actually the citrate form (Source Naturals magnesium serene). I add hot water (it fizzes) and drink it as a tea at night before bed.

The secret is to take it with arginine. Fortunately, I'm taking arginine with pycnogenol at night anyway for the vasolidation benefits.

Arginine can deplete lysine, so I take 1 g arginine with 500 mg lysine. I don't know if that ratio is optimal; if anyone knows some better basis for determining the optimal ration, please let us know.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: newguy on November 16, 2010, 03:46:28 AM
s&s - Thanks for the update - I'm still on Magnesium Malate. My regimen is very simple at the moment. It's

Pentox - 2 or 3 times a day
COQ10 300mg - 2 times a day
Magnesium Malate - 1 Time daily

In additional I occasionally take pycnogenol, resveratrol and l-arginine, as these seem to aid erection quality. However the quality of erections has been very good for the past two months or so, even though I'd eased up on mechanical treatments for a while (back doing them now though).

I don't experience many side effects from the magnesium, aside from soft stools.
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: mateo on December 19, 2010, 11:40:55 PM
Quote from: BSSS on October 28, 2010, 01:11:15 PM
I also noticed bone spurs developing in places I hadn't seen them before; my kneecaps for instance have protrusions now that they didn't have before.  All this stuff happened at about the same time to me and when I mention it to my primary I might as well be speaking Greek.

Anyone know what causes magnesium deficiency?

Although I can't post a link, you can Google for "Magnesium Recycling Barriers". The first result is a good summary of various causes of magnesium deficiency.

To supplement magnesium, use magnesium citrate or magnesium aspartate. Your intestines absorb these forms much more readily. (Citrate is my personal preference.) You can also take them on an empty stomach, which further improves assimilation. When taking magnesium, titrate to bowel movement. That means start with a low dose, and increase gradually until you feel the need to have to a BM. However, if you take magnesium carbonate (as opposed to citrate or aspartate) on an empty stomach, you'll get a false-positive way too soon! Taken properly, your dose tolerance for magnesium citrate will increase within a few days.

Magnesium is arguably the most important mineral in your diet. Titrating to BM is an effective way to gauge how much magnesium your body is able to use at any particular time. There is a similar method for vitamin C.

It's best if you don't take it at the same time as calcium or vitamin D. Ideally, one takes magnesium apart from calcium. Vitamin D is best absorbed when taken with some kind of fat (in a meal). Although vitamin D is necessary for proper calcium assimilation, your body can store vitamin D for later use.

If you supplement with calcium, use either the citrate or aspartate form, and also supplement with magnesium. The higher the ratio of dietary calcium to dietary magnesium, the more serious and numerous the symptoms.

Lead and other heavy metals in your body tissue can not only block mineral absorption, but displace minerals. For example, some of your dietary calcium should form calcium phosphate for assimilation into bone tissue. But heavy metals lodged in body tissue may displace some of that calcium, so instead it winds up in places where it does damage: soft tissue (including scar tissue, and even the brain).

Resolving this situation requires two things: appropriate mineral intake and chelation therapy. Although DMSA is one of the most effective chelation agents, EDTA is also extremely valuable. DMSA is better at removing mercury; but EDTA is safer, it can also remove displaced calcium. I've used both DMSA and EDTA many times. The first few times I used them, I could literally feel them pulling metals and/or minerals out of my penile scar tissue.

If you have heavy metals in your scar tissue, then this is one source of the chronic inflammation. The metals also cause free radicals to form, which imposes an additional burden on the immune system. This is one way in which you can actually remove one of the sources of your chronic inflammation, while freeing more of your body's resources to heal elsewhere.
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: George999 on December 20, 2010, 11:33:03 AM
Guys, there is actually a much better substance now available for chelation.  It is Pectasol chelating fiber.  It is easy to take, extremely gentle and has no known side effects.  It has been tested and found safe and effective with small children.   It is very effective at pumping lead and mercury out of the bloodstream and thus out of the body.  I have been using it for some time and am very happy with the results I am getting.  - George

http://www.econugenics.com/p-70-pectasol-chelation-complex.aspx (http://www.econugenics.com/p-70-pectasol-chelation-complex.aspx)
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: Iceman on December 20, 2010, 03:40:05 PM
so george - do you think that we should buy this product - basically ive reduced everything now down to :
pentox + ubiquinol - so do you suggest I do add this to the regime?

Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: crashbandit on December 20, 2010, 05:06:43 PM
How does one know they might have a heavy metal build up? I ate alot of tuna at one time that was apart of a protein diet.
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: George999 on December 20, 2010, 06:44:52 PM
Guys, the whole question of chelation is a tough one.  On the one hand, its yet another product and expense added to the list.  On the other hand, there are stories of people having gotten significant relief from all sorts of issues by doing it.  I came upon, not because of Peyronie's, but because of ideopathic neuropathy.  That is just the type of issue that REALLY brings up the subject of chelation since multiple heavy metals are actually neurotoxins.  So I was ready to do DMPS or DMSA which are really heavy duty in terms of harshness and potential side effects and I even discussed it with my doctor and was on track to do it when I came across Pectasol.  I DEFINITELY feel that it has been helpful for the neuropathy because I just about don't have it anymore and that from a point of it being really debilitating.  The Peyronie's, I'm not so sure.  For certain it hasn't hurt anything.  But Pectasol makes it easy enough that I am continuing to do it off and on just to get and keep myself well cleaned out.  For Peyronie's, I would put any potential effectiveness for Pectasol way down the list.  Pentox and Ubiquinol are top of the list must do treatments.  Pectasol is something every guy would have to figure out for themselves.  I only mentioned it because Mateo brought chelation up.  I really can't recommend DMPS or DMSA to anybody because of the availability of Pectasol.  Personally I feel Pectasol is better and safer than EDTA, but that is just my own opinion on that matter.  As far as tuna, the type of mercury contained in tuna is organic mercury.  This is a different animal from elemental mercury which one gets by being exposed to industrial sources like mercury containing paints or broken fluorescent lamps.  In my case, I have gotten more than my share of exposure to both, plus significant exposure to lead.  Organic mercury also produces different symptoms than elemental mercury although both cause serious problems.  The problem with heavy metal poisoning though, is that it causes lots of inflammatory problems, so for that reason getting rid of it would no doubt be beneficial for Peyronie's.  But it really is very difficult to know whether you have it or not because heavy metals tend to settle in the tissues which makes blood tests pretty useless.  They can give you a rough idea whether you have a problem or not, but really don't do a very good job of evaluating how serious the problem might be.  Personally for me Pectasol has been worth the cost.  But everyone has to make their own decision as to whether or not it is worthwhile for them.  - George
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: samsabina on March 22, 2011, 10:58:54 AM
Someone below says not to take Magnesium and D3 together.

That's probably true for people on dialysis or with kidney failure. But you have to understand, D3 *helps* with Magnesium absorption. Many Magnesium supplements have D3 in them, because it helps the Magnesium get into the blood.

Of course, people who can't get the magnesium out of their blood (because of compromised kidney function) would be more likely to get overly high levels of magnesium if they stick more magnesium in their blood. But I don't think that's the issue for most people here.

But I'm planning to take my D3+K2 sublingual tabs at the same time as the magnesium.
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: crashbandit on March 23, 2011, 01:24:06 AM
Quote from: samsabina on March 22, 2011, 10:58:54 AM
Someone below says not to take Magnesium and D3 together.

That's probably true for people on dialysis or with kidney failure. But you have to understand, D3 *helps* with Magnesium absorption. Many Magnesium supplements have D3 in them, because it helps the Magnesium get into the blood.

Of course, people who can't get the magnesium out of their blood (because of compromised kidney function) would be more likely to get overly high levels of magnesium if they stick more magnesium in their blood. But I don't think that's the issue for most people here.

But I'm planning to take my D3+K2 sublingual tabs at the same time as the magnesium.


I always take my 5,000UI Vit D3 with a magnsium malate horse pill most nights, sometimes I skip the magnesium and do just the Vit D.

Is Vit D and Magnesium dangerous at all when taken together? Expecially for many nights in a row?
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: George999 on March 23, 2011, 11:12:16 AM
Major calcium supplements, by default, are formulated with a combination of vitamin D and magnesium.  This whole chain of concern with Vitamin D and magnesium started out with something Fred posted based on information from drugs.com advising not to take vitamin D and magnesium together out of concern over hypermagnesemia.  Note that the concern is rated "Moderate".  I would ONLY pay attention to this if 1) you already have kidney issues OR 2) you are taking large amounts of magnesium.  I don't think this is a concern for someone taking one typical 500mg magnesium supplement a day along with their vitamin D.  Additionally, if you are taking more than 2,000IU of vitamin D, you should be checking your serum vitamin D levels to make sure you are not getting too much.  If you get anywhere near hypermagnesemia, you will end up with nasty and persistent diarrhea and you will know there is a problem.  If this is happening, then scale back your magnesium intake.   - George
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: goodluck on July 26, 2011, 11:35:06 PM
This whole topic of chelation is huge and controversial.  It is just a good idea to have your hair tested to get a very rough idea if you have any heavy metals.  You can order the test with out a doctor.  Doctors Data does it and I have used King James Labs in Cleveland, OH.  The hair test is not considered ultra accurate but it will give you an idea if you have a big issue.  Blood is not a good method to test as mentioned earlier.  A 24 hour urine test is better.  You can even do a provolked urine test by ingesting a chelator like DMPS the night before you collect your urine.   

There are many points of view and philosophies around this. I am still gathering information as it is a huge topic and conflicting opinions are everywhere.
One thing I have read more than once is that if you are very toxic you need to be carefull as to how you chelate becausue you can move the metals from soft connective tissue to your brain and that is not good.

I would recommend looking at the low dose chelation Yahoo group.  It is based on the works of Andy Culter who has several books out on the topic of chelation.  His books are on Amazon and he is considered an expert on the topic.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/?yguid=303518245

George, thanks for recommending Pectosol.  Do you have a recomended protocol on how to use it?
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: George999 on July 27, 2011, 01:17:38 AM
Here are just a few links on Pectasol:

http://www.econugenics.com/p-70-pectasol-chelation-complex.aspx (http://www.econugenics.com/p-70-pectasol-chelation-complex.aspx)

http://www.econugenics.com/t-our-commitment.aspx (http://www.econugenics.com/t-our-commitment.aspx)

http://www.cancerdecisions.com/content/view/465/2/lang,english/ (http://www.cancerdecisions.com/content/view/465/2/lang,english/)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20462856 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20462856)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18616067 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18616067)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18219211 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18219211)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17513886 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17513886)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16835878 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16835878)

The instructions that come with it are pretty clear.  You can also look at what they used in the studies (links above).  Huge advantages over the old methods are that Pectosol is completely non-toxic AND it does not tend to move toxic stuff around in the body.  Whatever it pries loose it pretty much dumps in the urine.  But as a precautionary measure, even with Pectasol, the advice is to be safe and start out slowly giving possible heavy toxicity time to clear and then become more aggressive over time.  But it is really super stuff.  I am no longer using it at this point but plan to use it intermittently now and then just to keep my bod cleaned out.  - George

PS - iherb.com carries this product at a pretty reasonable price (its not cheap).
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: crashbandit on July 29, 2011, 03:57:49 PM
I have no idea what my metal levels are at but I sure would like to know. If I go to the doctors, can I ask them for a heavy metal test? Would a hair test be accurate like Goodluck had mentioned? Maybe I'll just get the Ca and Mg serum tested like Tim suggested, is that just a blood test?

I'm currently taking 1000mg Mag. Malate horse pills (only contain 150mg of actual Mag.) about once a week. Would this be sufficient in binding extra Calcium that might be kicking around? I wonder if the Mag. could collect the extra Calcium all ready deposited in the tissue? I'm thinking no.
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: goodluck on July 29, 2011, 11:18:10 PM
Most blood tests will not show a problem. Many false negatives. First of all it is a snap shot of that moment your blood is drawn. Secondly, the issue with metals is that they tend to lodge in tissue and often are not floating around in the blood.  A 24 hour urine test is more accurate than blood from all I have read. It shows what your body is excreting for a full day.  Some will say you need to take a chelating agent the day before the urine collection to force(provoke) the metals into the blood and then into the urine, if your kidneys do their job.  Andy Cutler is against using a provolked urine test as he feels it as too much risk.  He feels if you are very toxic it could dislodge metals and they may end up in the brain. This is controversial but you should understand both sides before embarking into it.   

A hair test is considered a good first screening test.  It is an average over the past two months of what you body has been eliminating.
If you die you hair you can use pubic hair and even nail clippings.   Other things can sway it too like swimming pool chemicals and anti dandruf shampoos.  Swimming in the ocean will raise the Soduim content.  By and large the hair test it is considered the best screen test.  You can order it yourself from Doctors Data for about $90.  King James is about $50 but they don't test as many elements.

If you look at the Yahoo group I recomended you will find tons of informaiton.  They do have an opinion but you can find links to other views as well.

Most allopathic doctors don't know much about this topic and nievely order a blood test. Then dismiss the idea it when the test comes back negative.

Again, this can be a very controversial topic. I don't claim to know alot abut it but  I would start with the hair test. The blood test is good for calcium, mag, potasium, phosperous.  Hair and blood don't always correlate with minerals but it is more data that may give some insight.  Andy Culter has a book out just on interpreting hair test results.  He feels he can tell if you have a metals issue from it alone. There is more to it than just looking at what is in or out of range.

Aslo if you are worried about calcium deposites take vitamine K2 mk-7.  K2 mk-4 may help as well. This helps put the calcium in your bone vs. soft tissue. LFE has a complex of vit K as well as the individulals.

Magnesium is important too to balance out calcium.  
Interestingly I recently read that you need to take vitamin A with D to help prevent your Vitamin K from being depleted.  It was a bit complicated but my take away was if you consume either alot of Vit D or Vit A without the other, you create a situation where your vit. K2 is depleted resulting in calcium being pulled form the bone in placed in soft tissue.

Everyone here is probably supplementing with D and I see most here recommend it should be over 50.  I would make sure you are getting some vit A with it.

I can't recall the exact article but I think it was a study done at Tufts U. and I saw it posted on a Weston Price board.

As far as magnesium goes it does work with calcium.  The conventional thinking is a 2:1 ratio of Cal:Mag. I have been reading more that closer to 1:1 may be better for most.  They say you can't take too much mag.  The worst that will happen is you get loose stools.  Some people can't absorb magnesium well so they are advised to rub a magnesium oil on the skin.   This is something I have just started and will report on my observations later. One interesting thought is that magnesium is know to dilate blood vessules. It is used in Raynauds.  Could mag oil be used on the penis to help with circulation?  Has anyone tried it?

Anyone who knows more please weigh in.  
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: George999 on July 30, 2011, 10:56:22 AM
The typical western diet has more than adequate vitamin A.  It is very easy to get too much vitamin A.  It is the one vitamin that I scrupulously avoid.  - George
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: crashbandit on July 30, 2011, 09:32:43 PM
Hey Goodluck,

That's some good stuff you got going there. I guess I will inquire with my doctor about hair testing for iron. I'm worried about my iron because I remember a doctor saying to me one time that my iron was high and all I said was, "Allright alot of iron," as I flex my bicept muscle in front of him. Not until now have I realized this isn't a good thing. And I am of strong Irish/English background, known to be heavy carriers of the mutated gene responsible for iron overloading.

What are some other metals are good to have the hair tested for? So if my hair test comes back positive for high concentrations of iron, what's the chances this could still be a false positive or even the false negative like you mentioned?

So how can a blood test be useful for calcium? Would it show a high concentration that could point to high concentration of calcium absorption into the tissues?
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: George999 on July 30, 2011, 11:55:44 PM
The body regulates calcium pretty precisely, if you don't get enough in your diet, you bod saps it from your bones to keep blood levels within range.  The ONLY thing a calcium blood test is useful for is to check for para-thyroid function.  Its the para-thyroid that controls serum calcium levels.  - George
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: goodluck on August 01, 2011, 08:11:30 PM
Acording to King James Medical Labs/Omega tech.  They claim iron levels can not be interpreted from hair.  For some reason they still check it.   

I quote:

"Iron levels in the hair have no known significance. It is not possible to interprete iron levels in the hair........Hair iron may be low when body stores of iron are high or toxic........Serum ferritin is a much more reliable indicator of iron status."

When you order the hair test they will check for a variety of elements.  They will give you a rough interpretation of your results.

The $50 hair test included:
9 trace elements
5 essential macro elements
2 non essential elements
6 Toxic elements, ..... lead, mercury, arsenic, aluminum, nickel, cadmium

Again Doctors Data check for more elements but costs more.

Ask for a full iron panel.  Feratin, serum iron, TIBC, UIBC, % saturation.  This is usually done when someone is hypothyroid and they are having trouble with the effectiveness of their thyroid meds.
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: crashbandit on August 01, 2011, 09:05:21 PM
Quote from: goodluck on August 01, 2011, 08:11:30 PM
Acording to King James Medical Labs/Omega tech.  They claim iron levels can not be interpreted from hair.  For some reason they still check it.   

I quote:

"Iron levels in the hair have no known significance. It is not possible to interprete iron levels in the hair........Hair iron may be low when body stores of iron are high or toxic........Serum ferritin is a much more reliable indicator of iron status."

When you order the hair test they will check for a variety of elements.  They will give you a rough interpretation of your results.

The $50 hair test included:
9 trace elements
5 essential macro elements
2 non essential elements
6 Toxic elements, ..... lead, mercury, arsenic, aluminum, nickel, cadmium

Again Doctors Data check for more elements but costs more.

Ask for a full iron panel.  Feratin, serum iron, TIBC, UIBC, % saturation.  This is usually done when someone is hypothyroid and they are having trouble with the effectiveness of their thyroid meds.

Right on, I'm going to go get that full panel of tests done. I found this website that is pretty good.

http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/tibc/tab/test

Scroll down to the chart. I printed that off to take to my doctor with me.

If I get the full panel iron screening. Will it 100% comfirm iron overloading?

Thanks so much goodluck
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: goodluck on August 02, 2011, 11:43:30 AM
Crash Bandit,

I don't understand Iron loading or what is behind it.  Sorry I can't give you any guidance on this.
I do know those tests are given by doctors knowledgeable in thyroid care if the patient is having trouble with their thyroid meds.

It sounds like it would help you and probably others if someone with any knowldege about this could chime in and shed some light on the topic.

Goodluck
Title: Re: Magnesium & Relationship to Calcium deposits in tissue
Post by: George999 on August 03, 2011, 10:26:22 AM
As with calcium, the body normally regulates iron pretty efficiently.  But for a few people with genetic issues iron is a problem.  They can get sick from too much iron and that sickness can be pretty easily diagnosed.  That is the reason experts warn people about taking iron ... because a *few* people can get sick from it.  Most people cannot be easily poisoned by casual iron intake.  Now if you are taking it for a long time in extremely large doses, that *can* be a problem.  So its really the same as with calcium and vitamin D which are *only* a problem if you have para-thyroid issues.  So they tell everybody not to take vitamin D in an attempt to be on the safe side.  - George
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: LauRenT on February 08, 2012, 11:05:28 AM
 Tomorrow i'll add magnesium to my list of supplement, but i'm a little bit lost about when taking it in the day and how much.
I read that nearly 420 mg daily seems to be the normal intake, and for people who want to add magnesium supplements, it's a maximum of 350 mg ( that mean nearly 420 mg + 350mg maximum of supplement intake... so 770 mg /day).
I'll start for the beginining with 100mg of supplement.
I take Vit d3 ( 3000UI daily ) with 90 mcg of Vit K2 ( MK-7 ) since 1 month, with my daily supplements ( pentox, ALC, Ubiquinol, L-arginine, pycnogenol ).
Magnesium have some interaction with these supplements?
Better taking MG in an empty stomach or not?

Thanks for your advices, take care of you all.

Laurent
Title: Re: Magnesium
Post by: goodluck on February 08, 2012, 09:49:25 PM
Magnesium is a mineral so it is best absorbed with food.  I don't know of any negative interactions with what you have listed but I am no expert.  I take or have taken what you have listed with upto 400mg of Magnesium citrate and have not noticed anything negative.  As George pointed out you may see a softening of your stool depending on the type of Mg and  the amount.
Title: Re: MAGNESIUM related topics
Post by: peterjackson on June 30, 2012, 05:28:03 AM
Since I last posted I've been trying different forms. In addition to malate I've tried some of the chelated forms patented by Albion like Mg glycinate.