Potaba

[George999]

Thanks for the correction on that point Tim.  I was unaware that there was a generic option to Potaba, but apparently there is and you are apparently correct that it is in fact off-patent.  I will try to go back and correct my posts.  The generic drug is "Aminobenzoate Potassium".  However, my doctor did not mention the availability of a generic option but instead provided me with marketing material for "Potaba".  - George

Afterthought:  I have gone back and done a bit of research on this.  While Potaba is definitely off patent, I was unable to find any sources for a generic.  All that seems to be available is the original patent brand name medication.  And the prices that I am seeing are running about twice the price of Pentoxifylline PER PILL.  Lowest price for Pentoxifylline is 17 cents per pill whereas I am seeing a low of around 34 cents per pill for Potaba.  So even if Potaba is off patent, if there are no generic competitors, you see the problem.  Also there is the issue that one takes three Pentox pills per day as opposed to how many Potaba pills?  Lots!

[Tim468]

Is POTABA really not yet off-patent? I had it prescribed for me in 1975 and it didn't help in the least. But after at least 17 years medical patents go off, I thought.

Tim

[newguy]

I agree. George is spot on here. Potaba has probably helped a few men, but it doesn't have as much positive research behind it as pentox. The side effects also mean that you wouldn't be able to take it for as long as pentox, which is relatively easy to tolerate for most men.

[ComeBacKid]

Everything George just said is right, after taking pentox my condition reversed and got better!  Pentox is the best option I've found after ten years of trying just about everything guys.

ComebacKid

[George999]

Pentoxifylline beats Potaba on every count.  It is more effective, far less expensive, far easier to take, fewer side effects, safer, the list goes on and on.  But Pentoxifylline is an off patent generic whereas Potaba is an on patent high profit product and thus has a lot of marketing power behind it and thus gets pushed by most urologists.  I was offered Potaba initially by my uro and refused it in favor of Pentoxifylline.  I am glad that it did.  Potaba would have most likely been a waste of time and money.  I am now off the Pentoxifylline and doing well with no progression in the Peyronies issue which is the best one can expect since there is nothing at this point that can reliably reverse it.  There ARE things that can stop its progression though and Pentoxifylline is at the top of the list in that regard.  - George

[cowboyfood]

From what I've read, Potaba is one of the ONLY oral therapies (or therapy of any kind) to demonstrate statistically significant effects on Peyronies in a proper clinical trial...

A recent study involving a clinical trial of Pentox shows that it helps prevent and reduce curvature in patients diagnosed with Peyronies Disease.  It's posted on the forum somewhere, so search for it and give it a read.

CF

[JWL]

From what I've read, Potaba is one of the ONLY oral therapies (or therapy of any kind) to demonstrate statistically significant effects on Peyronies in a proper clinical trial.  The study I read, however, did not indicate that it can "improve" the curvature, only prevent the curvature from worsening during the acute phase.  In the study I read, of all participants in the experimental group (those actually taking the POTABA), not one experienced a worsening of curvature, while of those in the control group (taking the placebo), about 50%--the usual standard number given--experienced their deformity getting worse throughout the acute phase.

I read this, I believe, in Dr. Levine's book on Peyronies, which I got from the library.  Will try to find an online link for the article, though, and post it.

So yeah, to summarise: Potaba: no use for those beyond the acute phase of the disease, and of demonstrated limited use in preventing deterioration for those in acute phase.

[Lancaster]

Bart,  I currently take 800IU of full spec vitamin E per WEEK.  I consider vitamin D much more important to general health.  I have been taking around 9,000IU of vitamin D for going on three years now, and it has proven immensely helpful.  No flues or colds and a significant positive effect on my cholesterol.  
 - George

You have been taking V-D for three years now?  Nice to hear about it's positive effect on your cholesterol and cold/flu, but your peyronie's came back while you were taking high dose vitamin-D.  What is the conclusion to be drawn here?

[George999]

Bart,  I currently take 800IU of full spec vitamin E per WEEK.  I consider vitamin D much more important to general health.  I have been taking around 9,000IU of vitamin D for going on three years now, and it has proven immensely helpful.  No flues or colds and a significant positive effect on my cholesterol.  But to do vitamin D correctly, you need to get a doctor's help and get tested so you know where you blood levels are.  There is lots of information on the Vitamin D Council and Grassroots Health websites.  - George

[bart15]

Oh, and as it can be seen, I really never considered taking POTABA (especially after reading that it's expensive and hard on the GI tract) but I did not see any vitamin E threads and since someone stated that POTABA runs circles on Vitamin E, thought this would be the thread to post it in.

[bart15]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I just wanted to take vitamin E (and possibly D3 although I cannot find this apparent Brasilian study documenting its effects) as part of my greater treatment regimen. I visited a local uro and I am actually going to be using a VED (I will probably purchase the vitality 3 cylinder one rather than what he recommends), pentox, and L-arg. I will also combine pycnogenol for the L-arg. Additionally, because I am undiagnosed fully (The uro didnt' decided whether it is peyronie's or congenital) I will also try the traction device as well (FastSize probably). I will also add a thermotex wrist heating pad that one member on here told me slips over the traction device easily which I will wear to provide the hyperthermia. It has the appropriate temperatures as stated in that Italian study and delivers light therapy that penetrates tissue up to 2.6 inches I believe at one of the wavelengths so I will try this. Anyways, all will be done conservatively.

Thus, I just wanted to bring up the vitamin E (And even D3) to just see if it is worthwhile in combining with all these extensive plans? I'll have the pentox and L-arg, which when combined with the light therapy should do good in terms of increased blood flow and flushing out toxins, but I can't really see these vitamins hurting my case. I will check the prices at GNC since shipping costs for vitamin E from PDI are pretty high. Thanks again everyone,

Bart

[George999]

I think in the accounts of improvement thread on this site a person posted that they tried synthetic vitamin E to no avail, but then saw some positive results when they switched to this product advertised on PDI website (I hope they are not spamming for the site).

Bart,  I'm the guy that wrote that and I still would recommend natural full spec E over the synthetic kind which some research indicates is not even assimilated well be the human body.  There are a lot of full spec E products out there other than the one PDI carries that are just a good and a lot less expensive.  Now Foods Gamma E, GNC Isomer E, and there are others as well.  BUT, the mileage you get out of Vitamin E will be EXTREMELY LIMITED.  Potaba is indeed more beneficial, BUT its extremely expensive and difficult to manage.  The number one best oral treatment at this point is Pentoxifylline.  It is dirt cheap, easy to take, almost no side effects or drug interactions, and is well understood and its use has been studied for decades.  Thus it is extremely safe.  You can hardly loose with it.  But you do need to find a physician willing to prescribe it to you.  Personally, if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't fool around.  I would do what is known to work.  Pentox, VED, traction, even surgery if necessary and if you decide its appropriate.  There are a lot of doctors (and a lot of non-doctors as well) recommending useless or next to useless treatments for Peyronie's that will easily empty your wallet while your condition just deteriorates and narrows your future options.  Don't fiddle with this, demand a treatment that actually works and if your doctor won't help you with that, find another doctor that will.  Go to the resources area and download the PDFs authored by the experts (Lue and Levine) and learn what works and what doesn't.  - George

[Old Man]

Bart:

In the early stages of my worst case of Peyronies Disease (have had several cases), my uro put me on 24 Potaba tablets per day - 6 four times a day. After taking 13 bottles of 1,000 tablets, there were no actual effects noted. I was in the same condition as before starting the Potaba. So, my uro and I decided there were no benefits in taking any more so it was discontinued.

You should read all the posts on the forum to get a better overall picture of what the med has or has not done for others. IMHO, the benefits are not worth the side effects that some guys have experienced. Gastro problems have been one of major objections shown by many guys on the forum.

So, do your homework before embarking on a regimen of Potaba.

Old Man

[jackp]

Bart

Back when my peyronies started in 1995 my doctor put me on Potaba and Vitamin E. The Vitamin E was 400IU 3 times a day. At that time I just used the off the shelf stuff. 

In my case it helped the curve but not the other side effects, loss of size, loss of night time erections, severe ED,  Venous Leakage and Corporal Fibrosis.

I stopped the Potaba after about 18 months but continued the Vitiamin E until I had heart stents in 2006.

I can truly say that the only thing that helped after 18 months was the VED after the heart stents. The VED brought back a lot of health and size for my penis. It helped keep me healthy and active until my implant 10/08. The VED protocol is credited with a better than expected outcome from implant surgery.

IMHO the only thing that helps with peyronies in the VED and peyronies with severe ED the only thing that helps is an implant. Now I can function normally again.

My 2 cents worth.

Jackp

[bart15]

Hey guys,

Can I ask what the verdict is on Potaba to stimulate a discussion? I am just wondering someone on here stated that Potaba runs circles around Vitamin E, so do people suggest taking this over vitamin E?

Although Peyronie's Disease Institute seems like a walking advertisement for wasting money on things that may not work, they highly advocate their ballanced vitamin E (Integral Vitamin E factor 400/400 which has all 8 family members of vitamin E) and not just the single d-alpha-tocopherol, often in the synthetic or esterified form which is often used in studies. I think in the accounts of improvement thread on this site a person posted that they tried synthetic vitamin E to no avail, but then saw some positive results when they switched to this product advertised on PDI website (I hope they are not spamming for the site). I am interested in incorporating vitamin E into my treatment regimen, and I am curious as to what people think of it and these theories on synthetic vs. natural product differences?. Many thanks,

Bart

[despise]

If you look over the Wikipedia article on PABA, you find that PABA is considered mainly a nutrient for intestinal bacteria like e. coli, and does not have any significant direct effect on humans.  In fact sulfa drugs act by inhibiting bacterial access to PABA and thus causing folate starvation.  But this, in itself, is interesting, because intestinal bacterial flora have a huge impact in terms of modulation of the human immune system.  According to a 2005 article in UroToday,  Potaba is effective via "an anti-inflammatory and an anti-fibrotic effect due to stabilization of tissue serotonin-monamine oxidase activity and also a direct inhibitory effect on fibroblast glyocosamine secretion".  Whether this capability extends to PABA is unclear.  But PABA has been used for treating irritable bowel problems which would seem to indicate an anti-inflammatory effect of some sort.  How much is related to the care and feeding of healthy bacterial flora and how much to Potaba type response is, again, an open question.  - George

tissue serotonin?

[Jackieo]

Jackieo...

I have about 3 pounds of Potaba in two containers just prescribed a few months ago...( one is unopened )....  I would gladly give it to someone who thought it might help them rather than toss it in the trash.....

Let me know if you're interested...

Jack

Jack:
I am interested.  I did, however, just fill a 90-day prescription so it is not urgent.  I will send you a PM to exchange contact info.  Thanks, in advance.
JackieO

[parajack]

Jackieo...

I have about 3 pounds of Potaba in two containers just prescribed a few months ago...( one is unopened )....  I would gladly give it to someone who thought it might help them rather than toss it in the trash.....

Let me know if you're interested...

Jack

[George999]

If you look over the Wikipedia article on PABA, you find that PABA is considered mainly a nutrient for intestinal bacteria like e. coli, and does not have any significant direct effect on humans.  In fact sulfa drugs act by inhibiting bacterial access to PABA and thus causing folate starvation.  But this, in itself, is interesting, because intestinal bacterial flora have a huge impact in terms of modulation of the human immune system.  According to a 2005 article in UroToday,  Potaba is effective via "an anti-inflammatory and an anti-fibrotic effect due to stabilization of tissue serotonin-monamine oxidase activity and also a direct inhibitory effect on fibroblast glyocosamine secretion".  Whether this capability extends to PABA is unclear.  But PABA has been used for treating irritable bowel problems which would seem to indicate an anti-inflammatory effect of some sort.  How much is related to the care and feeding of healthy bacterial flora and how much to Potaba type response is, again, an open question.  - George

[Old Man]

Tim:

Amen! Many times over. My final solution, so far, has been the VED therapy. Continued maintenance with the VED seems to keep my penis healthy and no symptoms have occurred since the VED protocol was followed.

Old Man

[Tim468]

For what it's worth, I took tons of Potaba back when I was diagnosed at about 21 - no help. I also on a hunch rubbed PABA sun block on my penis for a very long time (no help, though I can report no sunburns during that time).

Of course, like Old Man, when you have had this for a long time, you are usually going to be a walking billboard for failed therapies. They work for some folks - but not me.

Tim

[jackp]

When first diagnosed with peyronies in 1995 my urologist put me on 400iu of vitamin e three times a day and potaba.

The potaba I took was in packets that I mixed in water. I do not remember the dosage but took it about 18 months. I had no side effects. Just remember it tasted bad.

Jackp

[slowandsteady]

It's a very small molecule, so the possibility of transdermal might exist. It looks like PABA derivatives have been used as transdermal delivery enhancers (R).

Another source says

Much of the absorbed PABA remained unmetabolized and in the skin, as might be expected for an effective sunscreen agent.

[Jackieo]

Newguy:
I would like to chime-in on the Potaba discussion.  As you know, I am on Potaba...6 months now.  For whatever reason, the top two Peyronie's Uro's in Seattle both prescribe Potaba.  Neither will consider writing a prescription for Pentox.  I was prescribed 6 pills Potaba (crushed) twice daily which I took w/ food at breakfast and at dinner without any side effects.  I was told by several forum members that this dosage is on the "light" side so I asked my Uro to up the dosage.  We went to 6 pills three times daily after which I developed stomach bleeding (similar to my reaction to aspirin).
It is hard to argue now with either Uro's protocol based on my improvement:  http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,466.msg22062.html#msg22062
If I messed up (and you are interested) you can go to "Improvements".

Anyone else on Potaba who wants to compare notes contact me.  Otherwise, I have been taking my dose of Potaba w/ L-Arginine and Taurine.  Right or wrong, I read that the L-Arginine is an effective "transport" for the Potaba because the Potaba has a "short life".  JackieO

[George999]

Potaba is PABA that has been modified slightly and turned into a patent medicine.  How much of the modifying was done to achieve increased therapeutic performance and how much was done to make the product patentable is not really clear.  There are quite a few guys who have tried PABA and felt that it was effective.  You do have to scarf down large quantities of it though.  This is where you expose yourself to potential side effects and even problems beyond that as in liver disease.  All of which are also associated with Potaba itself.  But if nothing else worked, I would certainly consider Potaba.  At this point I am far from being that desperate and I would strongly encourage anyone who can avoid it to make sure they do.  - George

[newguy]

To stop the thread getting off topic, I've decided to post my potabo posts here. I doubt this thread will see much action, as potaba is an old treatment and one of the most difficult to tolerate. However, it's useful for it to have its own area for discussion, to stop is clogging up other threads.

George - Am I right in thinking that Potaba is also known as Paba? If so, it's commercially available from sites like iherb too, though vast quantities would be required. I agree with your analysis that pentox is certainly preferable. Pentox should form the core of every peyronies regimen. I have personally never taken potaba, and appreciate that many more people suffer side effects than with pentox. Some people appear to naturally have the type of constitution that can deal with these things though. Beyond the PAV cocktail, I wouldn't blame people for considering it if they find that they can abide it.

If there is a scenario where a patient is fighting against an "take vitamin E and come back in 6 months" attitude though, then it makes sense to solely centre on pentox. There is now enough evidence for pentox for it to be rather insulting if a urologist fails to prescribe it.