Low Dose Naltrexone

[slowandsteady]

how do I buy the stuff???

Either get a prescription or use all day chemist.

[Iceman]

how do I buy the stuff???

[slowandsteady]

Good points all. One would not suspect an immunosuppressive drug to be successful against HIV.

[George999]

Interesting piece of hearsay s&s.  If what he says is true, a number of fairly reputable people are on a bunny chase.  There is, in fact, a clinical trial of Low Dose Naltrexone for HIV that has just completed.  One would expect that an immunosuppressive would actually make HIV more aggressive in a way that would be fairly obvious.  On the other hand, it certainly would NOT improve HIV outcomes.  Dr Bihari himself claimed great success with Low Dose Naltrexone for HIV.  It was one of his initial successes.  Dr Berkson also documented success in treating cancer with Low Dose Naltrexone to the point of published case studies.  And there are plenty of rave comments as to cancer treatment received from Dr Berkson on the Doctor Rating websites.  All of this makes me very suspicious of this strange post.  - George

[slowandsteady]

Interesting post at imminst.org.

I am paranoid too, except my paranoia is directed at anything that potentially suppresses cellular immunity. I axed a whole swath of drugs and supplements recently because of this and Low Dose Naltrexone was one of them to go. The researcher who discovered Low Dose Naltrexone insists it is not immunomodulatory as is commonly thought and is just straight up immunosuppressive.

[skunkworks]

For me it was erection quality. I do not really know via what mechanism it happens, but at a dosage between 3.2 and 3.5 a night I was waking up with the erections of a 14 year old overdosing on viagra. And it is generally accepted that frequent quality erections are very important in minimising the negative aspects of Peyronies.

George,
How is the Low Dose Naltrexone helping with Peyronies? Is it worth using? Any side effects?
Thanks
Jayhawk

[George999]

Different people actually find different dosages to be optimal.  4mg works best for me.  The advice these days for Low Dose Naltrexone is to work the dose up gradually and then backtrack a bit when the benefits begin to taper off.  First they would provide 1.5, 3, and 4.5mg, now its more like 2, 2.5,3,3.5,4 and 4.5.  The important thing is for each individual to fine the right spot that works for them.  At that point the effects can be pretty dramatic.  - George

[slowandsteady]

What a difference 2 mg makes. I've had noticeably reduced inflammation after going up to 4.5 mg at night over the past several days. I hope it keeps up.

[George999]

George,
How is the Low Dose Naltrexone helping with Peyronies? Is it worth using? Any side effects?
Thanks
Jayhawk

I think erection quality would be the number one thing.  It might be more helpful for some than others depending on what factors are involved with their Peyronie's issue.  I have experienced no lasting side effects.  If I had to choose between one or the other in the case of Peyronie's, I would choose Pentox in a heartbeat.  Unlike most of you, I have other health problems going on that I believe Low Dose Naltrexone useful in treating.  It has also seemed helpful for Peyronie's, but marginally so.  Unlike Pentox, it hasn't stopped the inflammation.  So at this point I am working on getting access to Pentox again.  - George

[jayhawk]

George,
How is the Low Dose Naltrexone helping with Peyronies? Is it worth using? Any side effects?
Thanks
Jayhawk

[George999]

Guys, At this point, I am off Pentox for quite a while and on Low Dose Naltrexone.  I can tell you that they are two different things.  Neither does what the other does.  My best results were observed while I was on both Low Dose Naltrexone AND Pentox.  I may end up restarting Pentox again in addition to Low Dose Naltrexone.  - George

[slowandsteady]

I'm giving it another trial at the 4.5 mg/day recommended for best effect at lowdosenaltrexone.org.

Even though I'm adapted to my 3 mg dose, going up to 4.5 mg like I did last night is noticeable in terms of side effects. Those should go away in a few days to a week.

[skunkworks]

I'm curious to know if anyone has any sort of improvement to report using Low Dose Naltrexone? I'm interested in asking my physician for a prescription, but am unsure - I hear several posters say they've started a course of treatment, but no reviews of pain management, plaque reduction, erectile quality, etc. It seems like most of these posts theorhetically debate what Low Dose Naltrexone should so and state "And I've been taking it".

So, are there any positive personal results to report?

I only took it for about a month or so, and will be going back on it once I have been on Pentox for 6 months.

The biggest plus was erection quality, nocturnal and morning erections were extremely hard, and after a week of these intense morning erections the effect seemed to spread into later in the day.

I was taking 3.5mg a night.

[slowandsteady]

So, are there any positive personal results to report?

I haven't found it to be particularly helpful for Peyronies Disease management since I started in January. I'm still taking 2 mg/night for general immune system support.

[ocelot556]

I'm curious to know if anyone has any sort of improvement to report using Low Dose Naltrexone? I'm interested in asking my physician for a prescription, but am unsure - I hear several posters say they've started a course of treatment, but no reviews of pain management, plaque reduction, erectile quality, etc. It seems like most of these posts theorhetically debate what Low Dose Naltrexone should so and state "And I've been taking it".

So, are there any positive personal results to report?

[skunkworks]

You can take Naltrexone but it is not going to help your peyronie's. 

Lancaster, lack of controlled study of Low Dose Naltrexone and Peyronies Disease is not the same thing as proof that it will not help.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!

[slowandsteady]

You can take Naltrexone but it is not going to help your peyronie's. 

Lancaster, lack of controlled study of Low Dose Naltrexone and Peyronies Disease is not the same thing as proof that it will not help.

[Tim468]

Hi  Lancaster,

Thanks for the links to another anti-fibrosis study - I will check it out.

Seems reviewing your posts yesterday that you're pretty down on all forms of Peyronie's treatments - I hope that you're doing well with your own struggles. It really does get discouraging at times. When I hear of anecdotal reports of improvement - they have invariably failed me, or helped me less - it is really frustrating.

Tim

[Lancaster]

George,
How is the Low Dose Naltrexone working out? Any help with managing Peyronies?
Thanks,
Jayhawk

At this point I really believe it has certainly not been unhelpful. 
- George

You can take Naltrexone but it is not going to help your peyronie's. 

quote author, George999 Reply #3821 on: October 13, 2009, 10:03:43 AM
Re: Low Dose Naltrexone ...
 
Just to recap some things regarding Low Dose Naltrexone.

1)  At this point there is absolutely no overt research evidence that Low Dose Naltrexone is helpful in the case of Peyronie's Disease.  That is the unfortunate bottom line.

[skunkworks]

You can take Naltrexone but it is not going to help your peyronie's.  

Thank you so much for your uninformed opinion stated as fact. At the moment no-one in the world knows if naltrexone will or will not be helpful for Peyronies, and neither do you. It could very well help, and if you read the thread you will see why there is a good chance it can help with Peyronie's.

Actually come to think of it I can state that it WILL help with Peyronies as it promotes nocturnal erections.

[Lancaster]

George,
How is the Low Dose Naltrexone working out? Any help with managing Peyronies?
Thanks,
Jayhawk

At this point I really believe it has certainly not been unhelpful. 
- George

You can take Naltrexone but it is not going to help your peyronie's. 

[George999]

George99 - Probably an impossible question to answer, but have you noticed any problems with regards to pentox and Low Dose Naltrexone? More pain, fewer erections, anything that might hint that Low Dose Naltrexone is dampening the effects of Pentox?

Not really.  I'm in my fourth month now taking them together.  No problems with pain, erections, etc.  But of course this is all just personal observation.  What I really like about Low Dose Naltrexone is that it tends to normalize endorphins and when it comes to metabolic processes I am convinced that anything that can be done to normalize them is a good thing and then we work from there.  - George

[skunkworks]

George99 - Probably an impossible question to answer, but have you noticed any problems with regards to pentox and Low Dose Naltrexone? More pain, fewer erections, anything that might hint that Low Dose Naltrexone is dampening the effects of Pentox?

[despise]

Low Dose Naltrexone really has very few problems with interactions.  Here are the warnings from the Low Dose Naltrexone website:

  1. Because Low Dose Naltrexone blocks opioid receptors throughout the body for three or four hours, people using medicine that is an opioid agonist, i.e. narcotic medication — such as Ultram (tramadol), morphine, Percocet, Duragesic patch or codeine-containing medication — should not take Low Dose Naltrexone until such medicine is completely out of one's system. Patients who have become dependant on daily use of narcotic-containing pain medication may require 10 days to 2 weeks of slowly weaning off of such drugs entirely (while first substituting full doses of non-narcotic pain medications) before being able to begin Low Dose Naltrexone safely.
   2. Those patients who are taking thyroid hormone replacement for a diagnosis of Hashimoto’s thyroiditis with hypothyroidism ought to begin Low Dose Naltrexone at the lowest range (1.5mg for an adult). Be aware that Low Dose Naltrexone may lead to a prompt decrease in the autoimmune disorder, which then may require a rapid reduction in the dose of thyroid hormone replacement in order to avoid symptoms of hyperthyroidism.
   3. Full-dose naltrexone (50mg) carries a cautionary warning against its use in those with liver disease. This warning was placed because of adverse liver effects that were found in experiments involving 300mg daily. The 50mg dose does not apparently produce impairment of liver function nor, of course, do the much smaller 3mg and 4.5mg doses.
   4. People who have received organ transplants and who therefore are taking immunosuppressive medication on a permanent basis are cautioned against the use of Low Dose Naltrexone because it may act to counter the effect of those medications.

One of the reported effects of Low Dose Naltrexone is to knock out depression, so you may even have less or no need for Lexapro if you are on Low Dose Naltrexone.  You will need to discuss that with your doctor.  In fact there are mental health docs out there that are prescribing Low Dose Naltrexone and getting good results with it.  But the best thing to do is to discuss this with a compounding pharmacist.  - George

does low dose naltrexone effect ssri's? im currently on lexapro and im worried if i get on naltrexone and pentox that it will effect it and maybe cause me more harm than good.

Well I have planned to get off of lexapro eventually, so im trying to decide what I should do. Maybe one I get my depression and anxiety completely undercontrol I can start to slowly ween off of lexapro and try to treat it without ssri's.

[George999]

Low Dose Naltrexone really has very few problems with interactions.  Here are the warnings from the Low Dose Naltrexone website:

  1. Because Low Dose Naltrexone blocks opioid receptors throughout the body for three or four hours, people using medicine that is an opioid agonist, i.e. narcotic medication — such as Ultram (tramadol), morphine, Percocet, Duragesic patch or codeine-containing medication — should not take Low Dose Naltrexone until such medicine is completely out of one's system. Patients who have become dependant on daily use of narcotic-containing pain medication may require 10 days to 2 weeks of slowly weaning off of such drugs entirely (while first substituting full doses of non-narcotic pain medications) before being able to begin Low Dose Naltrexone safely.
   2. Those patients who are taking thyroid hormone replacement for a diagnosis of Hashimoto’s thyroiditis with hypothyroidism ought to begin Low Dose Naltrexone at the lowest range (1.5mg for an adult). Be aware that Low Dose Naltrexone may lead to a prompt decrease in the autoimmune disorder, which then may require a rapid reduction in the dose of thyroid hormone replacement in order to avoid symptoms of hyperthyroidism.
   3. Full-dose naltrexone (50mg) carries a cautionary warning against its use in those with liver disease. This warning was placed because of adverse liver effects that were found in experiments involving 300mg daily. The 50mg dose does not apparently produce impairment of liver function nor, of course, do the much smaller 3mg and 4.5mg doses.
   4. People who have received organ transplants and who therefore are taking immunosuppressive medication on a permanent basis are cautioned against the use of Low Dose Naltrexone because it may act to counter the effect of those medications.

One of the reported effects of Low Dose Naltrexone is to knock out depression, so you may even have less or no need for Lexapro if you are on Low Dose Naltrexone.  You will need to discuss that with your doctor.  In fact there are mental health docs out there that are prescribing Low Dose Naltrexone and getting good results with it.  But the best thing to do is to discuss this with a compounding pharmacist.  - George

does low dose naltrexone effect ssri's? im currently on lexapro and im worried if i get on naltrexone and pentox that it will effect it and maybe cause me more harm than good.

[despise]

does low dose naltrexone effect ssri's? im currently on lexapro and im worried if i get on naltrexone and pentox that it will effect it and maybe cause me more harm than good.

[skunkworks]

At this point I really believe it has certainly not been unhelpful.  But the real help from the Low Dose Naltrexone has been for other issues.  Weighing both Pentox and Low Dose Naltrexone,  Pentox is the very clear winner when it comes to Peyronie's treatment, at least in the short term.  I do suspect that Low Dose Naltrexone does more to treat the underlying problem, but I want to be very clear that Pentox will do more to correct the damage that has already occurred and stop it from progressing.  - George

I completely agree. I have actually decided to cease Low Dose Naltrexone for the  next 5 months of pentox treatment just in case there is a conflict with regards to tgfbeta1. I doubt there is, but could not get a definitive answer, so did not want to risk jeopardizing the all important first 6 months of pentox treatment.

[George999]

George,
How is the Low Dose Naltrexone working out? Any help with managing Peyronies?
Thanks,
Jayhawk

At this point I really believe it has certainly not been unhelpful.  But the real help from the Low Dose Naltrexone has been for other issues.  Weighing both Pentox and Low Dose Naltrexone,  Pentox is the very clear winner when it comes to Peyronie's treatment, at least in the short term.  I do suspect that Low Dose Naltrexone does more to treat the underlying problem, but I want to be very clear that Pentox will do more to correct the damage that has already occurred and stop it from progressing.  - George

[George999]

Hello Fred,  I dropped the Pentox for two weeks and everything was pretty uneventful.  There were no flare ups or signs of disease progression.  At this point I have restarted the Pentox, albeit two pills a day rather than three.  I really think the Low Dose Naltrexone is helping significantly (I had a really nasty flareup on quiting the ALC before starting Pentox), but I want to be on the safe side of this equation and thus am trying to find a practical balance between the two.  I am also thinking that the Iranian study is very helpful in terms of showing that twice a day with Pentox can be effective and so I will go with that for a while.  - George

[Fred22]

George,

Are you on the pentox and Low Dose Naltrexone?  I seem to remember you saying you were going to drop the pentox for a while and see how you did on just the Low Dose Naltrexone.

Fred

[George999]

George,
what benefit or improvements?
Jayhawk

The big thing for me so far is that it has literally wiped out (so far) my bowel syndrome stuff which I have had for years.  Intestinal cramping and all of that seems to be gone.  Additionally, my neuropathic problems seem marginally improved.  Of course, it is too early to tell a whole lot.  Hopefully I see added benefits over the longer term.  But I am on my way with it at this point.  - George

[jayhawk]

George,
what benefit or improvements?
Jayhawk

[George999]

As of last night, I am on Low Dose Naltrexone 4.5mg.  It was a bit stressful working my way up.  I can imagine that starting out on the full dosage could be nasty.  I am already seeing benefit from it, although nothing significant to report in the Peyronie's department.  Anything there will likely take a long time.  - George

[George999]

For those who might not have seen it, attached is the article explaining in some detail the concept behind the use of Low Dose Naltrexone.  - George

PS - Those like despise might note that it hints at likely benefits in terms of treating things like depression and thus might be something to discuss with one's mental health practitioner.  Who knows, if they are open minded enough, they just might be willing to give it a shot.

[George999]

Once again, skunkworks is correct on this.  Thanks skunk!

Any homemade liquid formulations of Low Dose Naltrexone should always be refrigerated.  Also, they way to know if you are overdosing on Low Dose Naltrexone is that it causes depression and feelings of sadness.  If either or both of these occur, that can mean that you are getting too much Low Dose Naltrexone.  - George

[skunkworks]

That is not quite correct. There are extended release versions of Naltrexone, one such example is Vivitrol. Some compounding pharmacists in the US were using this instead of unadulterated naltrexone, and this was causing the patients difficulty as it was simulating full doses of Naltrexone.

The regular form of naltrexone is a 50mg tablet, which is not an extended or slow release version. Depade, Revia and Nalorex are the brand names of naltrexone in its typical non-slow release form.

[George999]

What s&s is doing is defeating the slow release mechanism by dissolving the pills in water.  He is then dividing the dissolved 50mg dose into the correct dose.  But you really need to know what you are doing to successfully achieve this.  - George

[slowandsteady]

I got 60 ml cobalt bottles with a glass dropper from eBay. I put 30 ml of water and two 50 ml tablets inside. For the dropper I got, 15 drops would give me 2.05 mg of Naltrexone. That is about 49 doses.

[George999]

Slow release Naltrexone, which is the typical form, has exactly the opposite effect of Low Dose Naltrexone.  Thus IF Low Dose Naltrexone is beneficial for Peyronies, standard Naltrexone would actually make Peyronie's worse.  The only really safe way is to do this with the guidance of a physician or pharmacist who understands Low Dose Naltrexone.  - George

[skunkworks]

This is the cheap way of taking low dose naltrexone.

YOu buy full strength naltrexone, and dissolve one pill in 50 ml of water, then take 3ml or 4.5 ml of that solution as your dose. Far cheaper than having the dose compunded by a pharmacist.

I warned you against buying slow release naltrexone. There are formulations specifically designed to be released slowly throughout the day. I do not know their names, simply specify you do not want any slow release formulations when you order.

[despise]

Generic Name: Naltrexone Hcl
US. Brand : Depade 50mg
Manufacturer: Intas Pharmaceuticals India
Strength: 50         Package: 10 Pills
Price: $16.63
   

This is a bit confusing because what I have read is you take 2mg a day or something right? And it says strength 50mg? And I heard you have to be careful to not buy regular Naltexone so I was assuming it would say Low Dose Naltrexone.

[slowandsteady]

Despise, look my post just before this one.

[despise]

I have been reading up on Low Dose Naltrexone and I have to say I am interested. How expensive is it? I know its cheap but can anyone give me specefic price ranges listed here in the US or even better in California?

I bought 310 days worth for $30 USD

Where at skunk? And how may I obtain a prescription?

[skunkworks]

Ok yeah now I am definitely interested =P Would anyone know how I can obtain it here in Los Angeles? You don't need a px right? The only doctors I see is a urologist and psychiatrist because they are free from Glendale Healhty Kids.

You will need a prescription for all pharmacies, and most online pharmacies. Make absolutely sure you do not buy any of the slow release formulations of naltrexone, these will not work and may cause lots of side effects.

[slowandsteady]

Source.

[despise]

I have been reading up on Low Dose Naltrexone and I have to say I am interested. How expensive is it? I know its cheap but can anyone give me specefic price ranges listed here in the US or even better in California?

I bought 310 days worth for $30 USD

Ok yeah now I am definitely interested =P Would anyone know how I can obtain it here in Los Angeles? You don't need a px right? The only doctors I see is a urologist and psychiatrist because they are free from Glendale Healhty Kids.

[skunkworks]

I have been reading up on Low Dose Naltrexone and I have to say I am interested. How expensive is it? I know its cheap but can anyone give me specefic price ranges listed here in the US or even better in California?

I bought 310 days worth for $30 USD

[despise]

I have been reading up on Low Dose Naltrexone and I have to say I am interested. How expensive is it? I know its cheap but can anyone give me specefic price ranges listed here in the US or even better in California?

[slowandsteady]

If anyone else ever comes across any info on how Low Dose Naltrexone affects TGF - beta 1 upregulation (or downregulation) please let me know.

This article from the The Journal of Immunology in 2001 might be interesting (PMID 11564781):

In this study, we investigated the effect of morphine on the mucosal immune system using fragment cultures of ileal segments, Peyer's patches (PPs), and mesenteric lymph nodes. Mice were implanted s.c. with a morphine slow release pellet. Control groups received a naltrexone slow release pellet, a placebo pellet, or both a morphine and a naltrexone pellet. After 48 h, mice were orally immunized with cholera toxin (CT) and were boosted orally 1 wk later. Animals were sacrificed 1 wk after the booster immunization, and PPs, mesenteric lymph nodes, and ileal segments were cultured in 24-well plates for 12 days. Morphine resulted in a highly significant inhibition of CT-specific IgA and IgG production in fragment culture supernatants of all three tissues compared with placebo. Naltrexone blocked the reduction in Ab levels induced by morphine, indicating that the effect is opioid receptor mediated. Morphine did not significantly alter total IgA levels in any of the tissue culture supernatants. Morphine also inhibited CT-specific IgA and IgG levels in serum. By flow cytometry, morphine did not alter the lymphoid cell composition in PPs compared with placebo. The effect of morphine on TGF-beta, IL-5, and IL-6 mRNA expression in PPs and ileal segments was determined following oral immunization with CT. Morphine significantly decreased TGF-beta mRNA compared with that in the placebo group, and naltrexone blocked this effect. These results indicate that morphine inhibits Ag-specific IgA responses in gut-associated lymphoid tissue at least partially through the inhibition of TGF-beta, a putative IgA switch factor, in the gastrointestinal tract.

So morphine inhibited TGF-beta, and high dose naltrexone blocked this effect. Low dose naltrexone, on the other hand, increases internal opioids after briefly blocking the opioid receptors in the body. It might follow that internal opioids, like morphine, also significantly decrease TGF-beta mRNA.

[skunkworks]

If anyone else ever comes across any info on how Low Dose Naltrexone affects TGF - beta 1 upregulation (or downregulation) please let me know.