HYPERTHERMIA - Infrared light & Heating therapy

[swbasil]

I'm new to the group, have had Peyronies Disease for about 10 years.I have been reviewing most of the posts and would like to offer a couple of comments/suggestions. First, on the IR lamps, I am currently using a small 100 watt bulb in the metal reflector pictured earlier. IR lamps are available at any pet store in wattages from 50, 60, 75, 100 up to 150. I paid about $8.00 for mine at Petsmart. You can also buy them online.
My second response/question, is that in my review of the posts I have not seen any reference to the use of counseling or psychiatric aid to address anyone's problems.
Have I just missed the topic line? I would like to hear your respones to this.

[dcaptain]

Joshua, you weren't lying about the heat.  I went out and bought a 250 watt IR bulb, not unlike the one you have pictured earlier, along with the standard "garage"-style clip lamp.  The entire contraption was $20 at Home Depot.  

I kept the bulb about 18 inches from the you-know-what, and I have to say that the heat definitely was different than that achievable from the heating pad.  Which isn't to say it was in any way hotter than the heating pad at that distance, but it seemed to be somewhat more "thorough" if that makes any sense.  Absolutely no irritation whatsoever.  

[Joshua]

That is a very penetrating heat, no doubt. I suggest you cover the areas that don't need the heat. Concentrate on the plaque areas. Good Luck and please keep us updated. I am going to talk to Hawk about possibly adding a topic area just for heat treatments and move all of the topics into that area.
Joshua

[learn4life]

Hey dcaptain,

Hows things going with the IR Bulb heat massage?

Hope it is making things better for ya

Just wondering if anyone can recommend a lamp for a 250w Infrared bulb?
I have my 250 sitting right here but still looking for a lamp that takes
this high power ...

Joshua and Hawk ... how have things been ?

[dcaptain]

Hey Learn4Life,

I have only used the IR bulb once.  Remarkably, it did not cure my Peyronies Disease.  I guess I'll have to try it again.  

Just kidding.  Will let the board know how it goes, provided I keep using it.

dcaptain

[Joshua]

The infrared heat treatment might have benefited me. I realized a great reduction of plaque and curve while using it but I of course have no proof that it had anything to do with the heat treatments. I was very aggressive with the amount of heat and length of treatment. I suggest if you are not seeing any benefit to increase heat and time before you give up on it.

[Joshua]

Roadblock:

I suggest you use an IR bulb. We have never been able to get our hands on the full report but what we did/can read, clearly states it was Infrared heat that showed whatever results they think/assume were from the heat treatments. I also THINK but obviously don't know and can't prove that IR has been helpful treatment addition to my Peyronies Disease. Please keep us informed of your treatment and good luck with it. I wouldn't think the heat is going to hurt and it might just help!

Joshua

[Pete]

I have read the posts in this section regarding infrared treatments. I just registered for this forum and this is my first post. I discussed this heat treatment approach with Dr. Thomas Lue, a leading Peyronies researcher at UCSF about a year ago. I am one of his patients with a scientific medical background. My interest then was if a low level laser treatment and been tried, since lasers can be very precise in deliverying heat to specific tissue depths. He said he had tried laser heat treatment in animal peyronies experiments and the laser completely dissolved the plaque to the point where it was totally undetectable. However, it did not fix the problem since the elasticsity did not return to the tunica albuginia even though the hard plaque was gone. So he dropped this approach. However this work was not done in humans so this approach still may be valid and I would certainly not want to discourage anyone from trying this, particularly in combination with something that may repair the damage.

Dr Lue currently thinks that peyronies disease is caused by inflammation run amok and the small tunica vessels are sealed off from the blood supply that would other wise flow in and repair the damage to the tunica. Along these lines, animal experiments are now being conducted to try drilling into the plaque at numerous points with small drills/lasers to allow blood to flow into the plaque site and see if that enables the body to repair/regenerate the tissue  Also being attemped is drilling into the plaque and then injecting various different medications/herbs/stem cells/enzymes/compounds into the drill sites to see what effect these may have. I will keep you posted on what ever results are achieved.

Pete

[Pete]

Yes, I think you have a good point about following up a heat treatment with a vacuum device or another treatment method. Obviously this was not done with animals. And that why I am encouraged to see people pursing this plaque heating approach, because it may very well provide a solution in combination with additional methods.

But the point is that whatever is done to lessen the plaque, I would suggest something else  be done in parrallel to improve blood flow into the damaged area in order for the body to regenerate the tissue and restore normal function. Any medication ,herb,  enzyme  or device that improves blood flow to small vessels is a candidate for this. Pentoxifyline, Ginko, Nattokinase, Ozone, and many others are candidates for a parallel treatment path when pursuing the a plaque heating technique.

~Pete

[Tim468]

Hi All:

I have been reading through the boards catching up with older posts. I thought I would add what I could, and one thing I can do is acces complete medical reports, not just abstracts.

Here are a few more snippets of information from the Italian report on hyperthermia, esp regarding methods:

"Group A patients underwent local hyperthermia with the FLEXITERM CX 2000 (Nuova Pragma, Rome, Italy) device according to the following schedule: hyperthermia treatment reaching a local temperature of 39–40
C, lasting 30 min, twice a week for 5 weeks, for a total of 10 applications. A second cycle, with the same characteristics as the first, was repeated after a 1-month interval—for a total of 10 treatment sessions."

and

"The 'FLEXITHERM CX 2000' device has the following components:
(a) Heating is applied to the tissue with a microwave antennae 'head' operating at a frequency of 40.68MHz.
(b) Surface temperatures are maintained using a temperature-controlled bolus.
(c) Copper thermocouples are used to constantly monitor skin temperature.
(d) Computer-controlled software is used to maintain constant temperature.

A penile applicator with supports is used to maintain the penis in an extended position and to position the thermocouple on the plaque to be treated. The supports are also designed to protect the testicles from electromagnetic wave damage."

I cannot copy/paste the figures into this post, but the results are interesting for two reasons. First, the Verapamil injection group does not show improvement (seems like they used a different verapamil injection protocol, though), and 2), the heat therapy is better. This was obviously not blinded (hard to keep someone from knowing they are getting a shot when they are getting heat applied), but it is very intriguing.

Tim

[Hawk]

Thanks for that information Tim.  Your contribution is appreciated.

Considering heat (minus this specific equipment) is free, and that it has no known side effects, coupled with the reported improvement, it seems like a safe complementary shot to whatever else one is or is not doing.  This seems like one of those, "what the hell, why not throw it in with what everything else I am doing" deals.

[j]

I'm thinking about actually trying this heat thing.  tim468, what sort of improvement was noted by the study you refer to? I've seen all sorts of studies that claim reduction in plaque volume, cessation of pain, and so on but in my opinion what really matters is objective reduction of curvature - and there, the results have been minimal.  

In contrast to iontophoresis or VED therapy, hyperthermia is something I can do on my own, at low cost, with off-the-shelf components: a digital thermometer with a remote-reading probe, and an infrared heat lamp. These things need to be industrial quality, not WalMart, but I have an engineering background so I know the difference.

[Tim468]

Let me try to copy/paste the results here - previously the table format looked weird so I will have to do a little typping and reformatting...

"Results:

"All patients in both groups showed complete disappearance of the pain after a few treatment sessions, with a reduced pain score at the end of treatment. Hyperthermia significantly reduced plaque size in 60% of the patients treated. Indeed, the plaques disappeared completely in 10 patients (35%), seven patients (25%) showed a volumetric reduction of the plaques and the plaques remained stable in the other 12 patients (40%) (Table I and Figure 1).

"The effects of hyperthermia on penile curvature are shown in Table I and Figure 1. There was a significant reduction in penile curvature after two cycles of treatment. Recurvatum completely disappeared in two patients and all patients reported better 'elasticity' of the treated area, which resulted in an improvement in intercourse.

"Verapamil did not significantly reduce either plaque size or penile curvature (Table I, Figure 1). None of  the patients in Group A presented disease progression, whereas disease progression was observed in five cases (20%) in Group B. Following two treatment sessions, only Group A patients showed an improvement in sexual performance, including improved erection and increased mean EF domain scores. The effects of treatment on right cavernosal artery PSV, EDV and IR, outlined in Table I and Figure 2, show that hyperthermia and verapamil did not significantly modify these haemodynamic parameters.

"All patients tolerated hyperthermia treatment very well with no side effects. However, five patients (20%) submitted to verapamil infiltrations presented side effects, including mild loss of libido in three patients and mild epigastralgia in two. Despite these side effects, none of the patients withdrew from treatment."

"Discussion:

"In this study, the authors have shown that, in patients with Peyronie's disease, penile tissue can be safely, selectively, uniformly and effectively heated to 39–40
C using computercontrolled 40.68MHz microwaves, for an established period of time, according to the following characteristics: heating efficacy (ability to reach the required therapeutic temperature), homogeneity while heating the selected area, lack of over-heated zones, maintenance of the established temperature for the required time, selectivity (electromagnetic waves reach only the selected area) and ability to reproduce the same conditions for each treatment.

"Hyperthermia has two main mechanisms of action. The first consists of dilatation of the micro-vessels with increased arterial and venous blood flow in the treated area by generating heat with an increased amount of oxygen, red and white cell components to repair cell and tissue damage and better venous drainage to eliminate toxins and oedemas [15, 18]. The second consists of an increased rate of cell metabolism resulting from the increased temperature, with consequent improvement in repair of cell and tissue damage [22, 23].

"Hyperthermia, due to the positive effects previously outlined, is indicated mainly for a wide range of acute and chronic muscular and skeletal conditions due to vascular damage and resulting fibrosis involving tendons, ligaments and muscles [14–23].

"The advanced stage of Peyronie's disease represents a clinical problem for which various types of treatment, including extracorporeal shock wave treatment, have been used [11, 12, 27]. To the authors' knowledge, though, these were not controlled studies and these findings, therefore, cannot be considered valid. It should also be pointed out that, in 10–20% of patients, disease progresses despite treatment, thus precluding the possibility of surgically correcting the penile deformity.

"Patients suffering from advanced Peyronie's disease could reap remarkable benefits from hyperthermia. On the one hand, the increased blood flow is responsible for a sort of 'gymnastics' of the penile vessels, with improved erection. On the other hand, the increased possibility of repairing cell and tissue damage could result in lysis or modification of the plaques as well as the fibrosis related to this condition. In regards to the analgesic effect, hyperthermia acts on the nerve endings, inducing production of endorphins and reducing afferent fibre transmission [19, 20].

"Hyperthermia may lead to changes in cell metabolism and treatment at a high temperature (45C) can result in irreversible cell damage, even cell necrosis, as reported in the literature [16–18]. However, at a lower temperature (39–42
C), provided the time of heating is limited, changes in cell metabolism do not lead to permanent cell damage. Mild heating promotes the above-mentioned effects that result in a beneficial therapeutic action. Indeed, it has been reported that damage incurred in tissue is related not only to temperature but also to length of heating time [28].

"A temperature of 39–40
C, with a limited time of heating, has been chosen in the present treatment protocol to avoid the risk of possible cell damage involving the underlying anatomical structures, with particular attention being focused on the penile neurovascular bundle and urethra. The plaques in the penis can never be more than a few mm from the surface and even the deepest are only a few mm between the albuginea and the skin. Therefore, the surface temperature is similar to the deep plaque temperature.

"The choice of a temperature of 39–40
C was based upon that used in studies carried out in the orthopaedic setting in which no adverse effects on the tissues had emerged and only beneficial effects had been recorded. The majority of investigations or studies on Peyronie's disease are prospective series without controls and have been criticized for poor patient characterization [11, 12, 27]. The present study was a controlled study in which verapamil-treated patients acted as controls. Use of a positive control (verapamil infiltrations) was preferred to placebo, since these proved to be the most effective in the case of fibro-calcific scars. Also, verapamil infiltrations currently represent the treatment of choice in patients with advanced Peyronie's disease [12].

"Patients were observed 6 months after the last treatment. This period of follow-up was a deliberate choice, as the improvements observed would be due to the effects of treatment and not to spontaneous changes in severity of disease, as may occur. Qualitative data (pain reduction and disease progression) were analysed before and after treatment using Fisher test. Quantitative data (plaque size, penile curvature and mean scores of EF domain, PSV, EDV, IR) were analysed before and after treatment using
Student t-test.

"Hyperthermia significantly reduced plaque size and penile curvature (Table I, Figure 1) and increased mean scores of EF domain (Table I, Figure 1), while verapamil did not cause any change in these parameters. Haemodynamic parameters were not significantly modified in either group (Table I, Figure 2). Hyperthermia caused significantly fewer side effects than verapamil infiltrations and was significantly more effective in preventing disease progression. There were no significant differences between the two groups in the reduction of pain during erection.

"Use of hyperthermia in andrological disorders, which has not previously been reported in the literature, showed encouraging results, suggesting that hyperthermia is an effective conservative treatment for advanced Peyronie's disease because it is well tolerated and causes no serious side effects. It is of considerable benefit in reducing pain, plaque size and penile curvature and it increased the possibility of coitus in a significant number of patients. Moreover, considering the mechanism of action and results obtained, hyperthermia could also play an important role in the treatment of erectile dysfunction.

"The beneficial effects observed in this investigation were based upon direct observations on the patients during the treatment. This study described a completely new treatment approach and the 'recognized mechanism', as already pointed out, is 'the increased ability in repairing cell and tissue lesions with lysis or modification of the plaques and fibrosis'.

"The beneficial effect of the hyperthermia treatment was documented via direct patient observation and assessment. A completely new treatment approach was described, that suggests microwave heat at a moderate thermal dose can increase the cell repair in plaque formation and in fibrosis. Studies involving more patients and longer follow-up are necessary to determine the optimal thermal dose, treatment protocol and efficacy level."

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Here are the results, sort of in tabular form:
****************************************************************************
                                    Before                         After                          p value
Mean variable (SD)  
                                A            B               A             B           Before vs      Before vs      A vs B
                                                                                           after A        after B

Penile curvature      50.8 (2.9)   49.8 (2.7)   22.4 (2.9)   47.9 (2.9)    <0.01          NS            <0.01
Plaque size, mm2     36.8 (3.   36.6 (3.4)   21.3 (6.1)   35.8 (3.6)    <0.01          NS            <0.01
Mean scores of
EF domain               22.1 (7.1)   22.4 (6.  25.5 (3.9)    22.8 (6.4)   <0.01          NS             <0.01
Right cavernosal
artery PSV, cms1   35.5 (4.3)   35.3 (4.4)  35.6 (4.6)    35.5 (4.5)      NS           NS              NS
EDV, cm s1           5.3 (3.5)      5.4 (3.5)    5.4 (3.7)      5.6 (3.     NS           NS              NS
RI, %                      85 (10.2)     84 (10.3)  84.6 (10.    83.6 (10.7)  NS           NS              NS
Left cavernosal
artery PSV, cms1   35.7 (4.4)    35.6 (4.3)  35.4 (4.6)     35.2 (4.7)    NS           NS               NS
EDV, cm s1             5.5 (3.3)      5.6 (3.3)   5.4 (3.      5.5 (3.7)    NS           NS               NS
RI, %                       83 (9.1)        82 (9.2)    81.9 (9.4)    83.4 (9.7)   NS          NS                NS
**************
NS¼not significant, PSV¼Peak systolic velocity, EDV¼End-diastolic velocity, RI¼Resistivity index.

What I think it means...

1) Arterial blood flow is not the issue and is not affected, but placque size and curvature is affected

2) How the heat is applied might make a big difference, and heat can have deleterious side effects, such as decreasing fertility by exposing gonads to direct heat.

3) The stats are OK, not great. They did not correct for multiple comparisons (called the Bonferroni correction), which makes the "power" of the study less - AND since the effects of verapamil were less than published data suggest should be seen, this increased the sensitivity of the results. IOW, if they had seen a good result in those injected with Verapamil, then the heat treated group would not have been statistically different from them.

The main thing I want to see is how heat could be safely applied without using their gizmo - which I have looked for online and cannt find.

Tim

[Hawk]

Tim,

Thanks for a huge contribution.  I have inconsistantly used hot water when showering in the form of a plastic glass filled with water as hot as i could stand it for 5-10 minutes.  It seemed to help but the warning about possible damage is a wake-up call that is very valuable information.  I took the liberty to bold that warning for those that often fail to read long reports.  I also gave your post a descriptive subject line.  I hope you don't mind.

You said

If they had seen a good result in those injected with Verapamil, then the heat treated group would not have been statistically different from them.

While that is true, even at the same rate or chance of improvement, who would not prefer hyperthermia to Verapalim Injections.  As a physician, do you have a guess why is this not more widely used.  Is it simply a lack of education or do economics factor in?

[Tim468]

While that is true, even at the same rate or chance of improvement, who would not prefer hyperthermia to Verapalim Injections.  As a physician, do you have a guess why is this not more widely used.  Is it simply a lack of education or do economics factor in?

I think the main issues are as follows:

1) Hyperthermia does not make that much "sense", and it falls into a more non-traditional form of therapy. I believe that doctors often (irrationally) reject some ideas if they are not "scientific" enough.

2) This is a recent study and is not too well disseminated yet.

3) It was published ina second tier journal, and the discussion is spectacularly weak ("the increased blood flow is responsible for a sort of 'gymnastics' of the penile vessels"??). Vague ruminations about "improved blood flow" do not at all give us a sense of physiology, or why it might work.

4) This falls into the category of a "good first report". How many good first reports have those of us watching this literature seen over the years? First it was POTABA, then vitamin E, then it was ultrasound, then it was the nest thing. Each great new thing being replaced by the next great thing - but none of them panning out. Just look at the "gold standard" of verapamil injections - no better with them!

A good rule of thumb, no matter how promising something looks, is to remember that just because a paper is the latest paper, does not mean it is the best paper writtin on a topic.

I like the idea of the tube of warm water - that could be pretty easily regulated to a set temperature. For instance, one could fill a tub of water to the desired temperature and sit in it, or use a VED to drwa up a flask-worth of hot water to soak just the penis in (and replace it as it cools). I am sure we can come up with all sorts of good ideas here...

I can tell you, though, that we will do things to ourselves that no Institutional Review Board would ever allow a doctor to try on a patient because of theoretical risks!

Tim - by the way, all the numbers that ended in "zero" and which were followed by a end-parenthesis sign, look like smily faces in the data!

[j]

Thanks for the detailed reply.  I note that the difference between a therapeutic effect and "irreversible" cell damge is about 5 degrees C. Scary, but probably manageable somehow even without the fantastically expensive microwave unit.

Your point 4 is of course spot-on.  This one could sink like a stone because of the potential liablility issue in offering this treatment. Which is probably why the experiment was done in Italy anyway.

As far as hyperthemia "making sense", in some previous discussions I've seen it was suggested that it might be breaking some of the molecular bonds in the cross-linked collagen, the way that cooking makes meat tender.

If the goal is simply to break those bonds or get them to realign longitudinally, then I still wonder why traction hasn't be seriously tried.  It appears that Dupuytren's tissue can be stretched, by using a rather medieval-looking device called the Digit Widget: http://www.handbiolab.com/digitwidget.html

[zigwyth]

j, let me know if you proceed with the possibility of designing your own thermal device(therapy). I basically went off of one of Joshua's previous post's of his success with Infrared lamp therapy and have been doing this for about 2 weeks. After reading the long recent post involving microwave heat therapy, I am somewhat concerned of possible cell damage. I am currently using a 250 watt infrared bulb and fixture in which it is placed about 10-12 inches from base of penis where plaque is. I am covering all other areas for protection. This is for 15-20 minutes. Afterwards, I apply my Topical T.V. and massage according to instructions. I have noticed far less pain and firmer, harder erections with an increase in head size of about 1/4". I will be asking my Uro for a prescribed VED and getting with Old Man on a regimen as well. Because of my concern, I may discontinue the Heat lamp therapy until we can come up with more specific answers, ie, distance, time, temperature, etc. However,like many of us, I am willing to try just about anything. Zig the Twig out

[j]

zigwyth, that part about "irreversible cell damage" really got my attention too.  As my first step I plan to locate a digital thermometer with remote probe from some industrial/technical supplier - it should be accurate within 1 degree C.  Then I'll look for a small, well-constructed IR lamp.  

It's possible to take this further and put together a system with a safety shutoff feature that turned off the lamp if the probe got to 45 degrees.  Obviously I'd prefer to see some more, and better quality, information about hyperthermia treatment before investing time and money in this, but if I find I can do it safely for a couple hundred dollars, I may go ahead.  

[Hawk]

I am pretty convinced that any heat source is as good as Infrared (IR).  Go to your dollar store and buy a cheap flexible plastic glass that is easy to bend.  Run hot water in it long enough to heat the plastic glass and then fill it with hot water about a degree hotter then you want. Then stand in the shower or on a towel to deal with very minor dripping.  Now, simply lower yourself into the glass and then seal the rim against your pubic area.  With a thermometer you can easily regulate the water temp right out of the facet.  As it starts to cool, refill the the glass.  It will only take a couple refills especially if the glass hold a decent quantity of water.  When done, quickly dry to prevent cooling from evaporation.  A VED can be used in place of a glass but some VEDs may leak since the air expulsion vents are designed to prevent an inward flow of air not an outward flow.

Advantages over IR: The entire penis is warmed.  During the acute stage  of Peyronies Disease, there is no way of knowing where the very first signs of plaque are developing.  If you have Peyronies Disease activity on more than one side of the penis it is difficult to hit all areas with IR unless you have multiple IR lights or do multiple sessions.   You can exactly regulate the temperature of the heat source so there is no guessing what the surface temperature of the skin actually is.

Disadvantages : Don't let your friends know you do this or they will hesitate to drink from your glasses.  

PS: A hand-held shower massage (without the massage part activated) also work.  You just regulate the temperature,  but you will will use a lot of hot water in 20 minutes.

[j]

Using hot water is an excellent idea. It has a solid safety factor, and is low-cost.  I see a couple of disadvantages.

First, the study we're looking at used a very narrow temperature range. Trying to get a glass of water exactly to 40C might take a lot of fussing.  

Second, it requires me to sit in the bathroom for half an hour. After 8 pointless months of TV, I've sort of had it with that scene.

Maybe a small flexible "water bottle" would do the job, but I'm leaning toward an IR lamp.  That would let me at least sit back and read something during the treatment. I just need to get things set up so there's no chance I overheat without realizing it.  I have a plan in mind, will keep you posted.

[zigwyth]

Thanks Hawk for your input, and no offense please, but I agree with j on this one. I see advantages and disadvantages in both options but I would prefer relaxing in bed. j, I am in industrial equipment maintenance so I will start looking for pricing/options on digital thermometers w/probe and shut-off timer w/ thermocouple perhaps. Also,  perhaps a small air compressor to deliver the pneumatics to the robotic arm I'm designing that will slowly rotating the penis kind of rotisserie style to cover all areas. Haha-Sorry, sometimes my imagination runs wild. You know Black and Decker stole alot of my ideas. Anyway I think a sense of humor has been helping me with this condition. Zig the Twig out

[Joshua]

I have always assumed that IR light therapy "penetrates" deeper into the tissue that other heat therapies. I know it is often used by physical therapist. I will research this theory a little and report back. As I have noted before o the forum, I have what I feel was success With this treatment. I of course can not prove it was IR that did it but I know for certain I did see improvement while using IR.

[j]

Zig, I just ordered one of these:

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=215589

It comes with a thermocouple probe. It also has a USB interface which could be useful. Since I'll be sitting near my PC I could write a program to monitor the temperature and beep if it gets out of range - then I wouldn't have to be constantly watching the meter.  If I think it's worthwhile I could even get a PC-controlled outlet box to power the lamp and try extending the  program into a closed-loop controller.

[zigwyth]

j, that looks like the ticket. I work on annealing ovens in the glassblowing semiconductor industry and we  use a 4-20 ma signal with closed loop programming. Now if you,Joshua,I and anyone else wanting to research more data on this in order to hopefully avoid possible cell damage, I am willing to go full steam ahead with IR therapy. Keep up the good work and correspondence. I thought I was alone until I found this site. I have renewed faith in possibly having a future relationship again one day.Zig out

[j]

zig, first I have to say again I'm not an MD, just a guy like you with some technical experience. I did some websearching on hyperthermia and the consensus seems to be that normal healthy tissue isn't damaged below 45C.  Cancer cells seem to be vulnerable a couple of degrees below that, which is why hyperthermia is used on tumors. The temperatures in the Italian Peyronies Disease study were 39-40C which, as I understand it, is just below the level of hyperthermia treatments for cancer. In other words they used a very conservative temperature and I intend to be sure I don't go above that.

My initial heat source is going to be a 150W ceramic IR emitter. It's like an IR bulb except the element is encapsulated in a  ceramic (looks like porcelain).  They're sold in pet stores for use in keeping reptiles as pets.   Here's a link:
 http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?familyid=5003

At the pet shop you can also get a socket/hood assembly with a ceramic base to handle the heat. I have the thing set up next to me right now, keeping my hands warm as I'm at the keyboard here in my basement.  I'm not sure it's putting out enough heat to do the job but will find out soon -the meter/thermocouple will probably arrive Monday.

I'm going to be real cautious with this -  I'll be trying it first on some other area of my body, like a thumb.

Whether or not this works - and my expectations are zero - I'm also thinking more about the VED approach and I'm thinking about making one, rather than starting that endless dance with urologists and insurance companies again.

[Hawk]

Well, I see the forum's talent, creativity, and the OCD juces or flowing.

J,

You are out of my league on this.  My shallow knowledge is tied to some potentiometers hooked in to an icubation system for eggs.  Will your unit actually control the temperature or just monitor the temerature and alert you if it is too high?

[j]

Hawk, Depending on how far I decide to go with this, there would be 3 stages. Initially I'm just using a hand-held meter with a thermocouple (temperature probe) which I have in contact with the area being heated. I watch the meter carefully and fiddle with the lamp.

Next stage would be to use the meter's USB interface and write a program to continuously read and monitor the temperature. If it drifts too high or too low, a warning tone is played. That much is pretty easy, it's the sort of thing I do in my work all the time.  In fact the meter might come with software that already does it.

Final stage would be to get a PC-controlled AC outlet box (off-the-shelf) that lets my program turn the IR emitter on and off while monitoring the temperature. The goal would be to tune my program so it brings me up to temperature, keeps me there for 30 minutes and shuts off. However, that would not be as easy as it sounds because this simple IR emitter isn't variable, just on-or-off, and my distance from it isn't precise.  A lot of tweaking would be required. But if I end up doing this for months, it might be worthwhile.

[Hawk]

J,

This is my question.  What is the chance that the probe would absorb a different amount of heat energy than your skin and the two would be at different temperatures?  

[j]

A reasonable question.  I'm going to wrap myself, and the probe, in a thin elastic bandage. The probe's temperature can't be much different than my skin's if the 2 are in contact and covered by the bandage. According to what I've read, infrared heating doesn't penetrate very much, being very close to visible light. Microwave radiation behaves very differently and penetrates deeply, hence its use in cooking.

Remember, I'm going to try this extensively on some other, more expendable,  part of my body first.  

For the benefit of anyone else who might be reading this - I'm not a medical professional, I'm trying this at my own risk, and I do NOT recommend that anyone else try it.  

[swbasil]

Percy - Sorry, my msg. took off before I could make an entry - Re your question on the IR lamp, they are available at most pet shops in wattages from 50 to 200 watts. They are used to provide sunlight/heat for reptile cages (I know there's a pun in there somewhere) 100 watts is what I'm using and it seems to help.
Hope this helps.
swbasil

"Subject line on this post edited for easy reference"

[Mr BLBC]

Percy - Sorry, my msg. took off before I could make an entry - Re your question on the IR lamp, they are available at most pet shops in wattages from 50 to 200 watts. They are used to provide sunlight/heat for reptile cages (I know there's a pun in there somewhere) 100 watts is what I'm using and it seems to help.
Hope this helps.
swbasil

I'm not IRadicating my dick yet......

Did this option just appear......?

I'm into big snakes........

Mr.BLBC

"Subject line on this post edited for easy reference"

[hopeful]

Hi .. This is Hopeful- How does it help?- WHat degree curve do yuou have- has it improved- please let me know protocol..

Thank you,

Hopeful

Percy - Sorry, my msg. took off before I could make an entry - Re your question on the IR lamp, they are available at most pet shops in wattages from 50 to 200 watts. They are used to provide sunlight/heat for reptile cages (I know there's a pun in there somewhere) 100 watts is what I'm using and it seems to help.
Hope this helps.
swbasil

"Subject line on this post edited for easy reference"

[Liam]

We have been using different types of heat around here for a while with the same results you mention.  Many of us "warm up" prior to pumping or traction.  Just be careful when raising your body temp (heat stroke).

Of course when comparing putting a heating pad on your privates to stretching into pretzel-like positions with a class of hot sweaty women clad in tights.........hmmmmm......... that would be classified as a NO-BRAINER.  

::::looking over my shoulder before my wife "brains" me::::

Liam

[Liam]

ComeBackid asked if traction helped any one.  

Yes, it and l-arginine and heat got rid of the turtle effect.  Then my cheap traction unit ($50) broke.  But, no more turtle.  Who knows what if I'd bought a good one.

[percival]

Hi again!

I found this reference which discusses penile skin temperature:

http://www.nature.com/ijir/journal/v14/n6/full/3900933a.html

Penile skin temperatures have been used for the evaluation of impotence and male erectile responsiveness to aging.5,6 Solnick reported that the mean surface temperature 1 inch proximal to the dorsal coronal ridge of the flaccid penis for old and young groups was around 91.7°F (33.2°C) to 92.8°F (33.8°C), respectively.5 A recent report by Bleustein demonstrated a normal glans temperature to be 31.8°C.7

This means that the skin temperature of the shaft is about 7°F below body temperature. The area where plaque develops will be slightly warmer, but it sounds like that it could still be say 5°F below body temperature. To me - an old industrial chemist - this sounds like it might play a very big part in controlling some of the sophisticated biochemical reactions that are discussed on this forum. I think that the plaque forms in cooler areas is a significant factor in Peyronies Disease (and maybe in Duputeren's too). Obviously it is not the only factor, otherwise, all men would contract Peyronies Disease, but I would bet on it playing a part.

Although I cannot find anything on this forum which brings reaction temperature into the biochemical pathways, there is a reference for treatment of Peyronies Disease using hyperthermia:

Department of Urology, University of Rome 'La Sapienza', Rome, Italy.

Objective: Previous experience in the treatment of plaque with hyperthermia in orthopaedics led the authors to investigate the effectiveness of this approach in patients with Peyronie's disease.Patients and methods: The study population comprised 60 patients (aged 36-76 years) with advanced Peyronie's disease. Patients were divided into two groups (A and B), with 30 in each. Group A patients underwent local hyperthermia treatment, with 30-min treatment sessions twice a week for 5 weeks. Patients received a total of 10 applications, which reached a local temperature of 39-40 degrees C. A second cycle was repeated after a 1-month interval for a total of 20 treatment sessions. Group B patients were treated with intra-plaque infiltrations using 10?mg verapamil; they received one infiltration once a week for 3 months. Differences between the two groups, as well as between variables (before and after treatment), were analysed using Student t-test and Fisher test.Results: Hyperthermia significantly reduced plaque size and penile curvature and led to an increase in mean scores of erectile function (EF) domain, while verapamil had no such effects. Haemodynamic parameters were not significantly modified in either group. Hyperthermia caused significantly fewer side effects than verapamil infiltrations and was significantly more effective in preventing disease progression. There were no significant differences between the two groups in terms of pain reduction during erection.Conclusions: Results of this study stress the efficacy of hyperthermia in the treatment of advanced Peyronie's disease.

This suggests that there may be something in this approach, although it would be better if, instead of attending a clinic for treatment, a 'willy warmer' could be devised to wear for several hours per day. This would need to have temperature control with a safety cut out of course. In the absence of such a product however, I believe that skiers and winter sportsmen just wear a woolen sock type of willy warmer - it might help, it would be cheap, washable  and harmless (itchy perhaps).

Regards,
Percival

[Liam]

I still think the whole Hyperthermia thing sounds plausible.

Liam

[George999]

If the root cause of Peyronies happens to be inflammation as Lue seems to assert, then hyperthermia might very well ease the inflammation.

[meanmrmustard]

this dates back to 2005, it might therefore have been posted before:

Use of local hyperthermia as prophylaxis of fibrosis and modification in penile length following radical retropubic prostatectomy
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/tandf/thth/2005/00000021/00000004/art00006?crawler=true

Conclusions : Results of this study demonstrate a mild but statistically relevant reduction in penile shortening following low-grade, externally delivered penile hyperthermia, thus confirming the efficacy of this approach in preventing penile shortening caused by post-ischaemic fibrosis.

I vaguely remember reading a post from someone on the board that was using a self-built hyperthermia-device at home, what happenend to him?

[percival]

I tried applying Tiger Balm for a week and tolerated it very well - slight burning but nothing serious. Regret to say that it did nothing for Peyronies Disease, but my pants are now safe from moths.
Tiger Balm is a thick grease and not very pleasant to use. I plan to try Deep Heat this week - a product based on methyl salicylate.
Regards,
Percival

[Liam]

Has anyone tried or have information on the affect of ice on Peyronies Disease?  We have discussed heat.  I tried Google and found references to reducing swelling in cases of trauma.  Nothing in particular.  Just a thought.

[Liam]

I'm back on this heat thing  

Use of local hyperthermia as prophylaxis of fibrosis and modification in penile length following radical retropubic prostatectomy
Authors: Perugia, G.1; Liberti, M.1; Vicini, P.1; Colistro, F.2; Gentile, V.1

Source: International Journal of Hyperthermia, Volume 21, Number 4, June 2005 , pp. 359-365(7)

Publisher: Taylor and Francis Ltd

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Abstract:

Objective : The aim of the study was to evaluate the effectiveness of local hyperthermia in reducing possible penile shortening following radical retropubic prostatectomy. Patients and methods : The study population comprised 40 patients, aged 52–74 years, submitted to radical retropubic prostatectomy. Patients were divided into two groups of 20. In Group A, patients were submitted to local hyperthermia 3 weeks after surgery, three times a week, with treatment lasting 30?min. Patients received a total of 10 applications, which reached a local temperature of 39–40°C. A second cycle was repeated after 1 month. In Group B, patients were submitted only to post-operative follow-up once a month. Penile length was measured in all patients both before and 3 months after surgery in the 'stretching phase' from the pubo-penile junction to the tip of the glans. Results : In Group A patients (hyperthermia treatment), no variation in penile length was observed in 16 cases (80%), while the reduction ranged from 0.5–1.5?cm in four cases (20%). In Group B, 12 patients (60%) showed a reduction in penile length ranging from 0.5–2.5?cm, while penile length remained unchanged in eight patients (40%). Conclusions : Results of this study demonstrate a mild but statistically relevant reduction in penile shortening following low-grade, externally delivered penile hyperthermia, thus confirming the efficacy of this approach in preventing penile shortening caused by post-ischaemic fibrosis.
Keywords: Penile shortening; prostate; cancer; radical; retropubic; prostatectomy; hyperthermia; electromagnetic waves

Document Type: Research article

DOI: 10.1080/02656730500133827

Affiliations: 1: Department of Urology, University of Rome 'La Sapienza', Rome, Italy 2: Hyperthermia Unit, Regina Elena Hospital, Rome, Italy

Source: http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/tandf/thth/2005/00000021/00000004/art00006

[Liam]

Handwarmers for hyperthermia......hmmm.......there's an idea.  

Masataro Hiruma1 , Akira Kawada1, Masami Yoshida2 and Michiko Kouya3

(1)  Department of Dermatology, National Defense Medical College, 3-2 Namiki, 359 Tokorozawa, Saitama, Japan
(2)  Department of Dermatology, Kinki University School of Medicine, Osaka, Japan
(3)  Department of Dermatology, Tokyo Metropolitan Fuchu Hospital, Tokyo, Japan

Received: 16 June 1992  Accepted: 13 January 1993  

Abstract  A case of chromomycosis in which hyperthermia proved effective is reported. The patient was a 56-year-old male bean curd maker who, without any previous history of minor trauma, developed on the extensor side of the left upper arm an eczematous lesion that underwent gradual radial expansion. The lesion showed a well-defined, 7×10 cm infiltrated erythematous plaque with the central area healed and, at the upper and lower borders, adherent scales and crusts on the surface. Histological examination revealed granulomatous changes in the dermis, as well as sclerotic cells within giant cells and microabscesses. On culturing,Fonsecaea pedrosoi was isolated. The patient was treated with disposable chemical pocket warmers, which were secured over the lesion with a rather tight elastic bandage, so that they kept the affected area warm for 24 hours a day. After a month of such hyperthermic treatment, the erythema and infiltration had decreased considerably, and microscopic examination and culture of the crusts both yielded negative results. Examination of biopsy specimens of the lesion after the third month showed that it had cicatrized. The treatment was stopped after 4 months, and no relapse occurred. We also summarize the published results of local hyperthermic treatment of chromomycosis in Japan.
Key words  Chromomycosis - Hyperthermic treatment -  Fonsecaea pedrosoi

[bodoo2u]

Liam,

That's a great idea. I already use the hot packs that you crush and put on sports injuries, but they don't stay warm for more than a few minutes. Plus, they are too large to strap on and wear under my clothes. I wonder how long the handwarmers stay warm? Do you have any idea?

Come to think of it, a handwarmer and the MaxPullr together would be an awesome combination...if it works for me.

[Hawk]

I was hoping Cabella's would have some camo penis warmers in their winter catalog.

On a serious note, they make those very small $ 1.00 chemical heat packs (pocket warmers).  They are very small and light weight and stay warm for several hours.  I think they would work well in conjunction with an athletic supporter.  

One caution.  Do not combine the handwarmers with traction while going through the airport.  The new imaging systems will make it look like you are carrying a heat seeking anti-aircraft rocket in your pants.    

[Hawk]

Ocelot,

You asked Liam about Infrared (IR).  I don't know of anyone lately but I do know Joshua used IR heat as did a few others here.  Although IR penetrates well, any heat source will penetrate if it is maintained for a while.  Many forms of scaring processes respond well to heat, but excessive heat can damage tissue.

Do a search on IR, Infrared, hyperthermia and be sure to check the box that says show results as messages.

Hawk

[j]

Radiation therapy is of course 'mainstream' for cancer. And I've read about the similarities between Dupuytren's/Peyronies tissue, and cancerous tissue.  A calibrated dose of radiation can kill cancer cells and leave normal cells unharmed; so there's reason to think it might also kill Peyronie's fibroblasts.  

This is also the thinking behind using hyperthermia for Peyronie's - hyperthermia is used against tumors.  But there seems to be little evidence that it works for Peyronie's. Just that single study, in sunny Italy, where Peyronie's is so readily treatable.

[ocelot556]

Anyone here have any encouraging information on heat therapy? I don't have a VED yet, but I've been doing manual stretching and holding the plaque area up to a light bulb to apply some heat. I know there was discussion of this earlier on the forum, and I know heat breaks collagen bonds.

I'm not using temperatures that cause discomfort in other parts of my body (holding my hand at the same distance for approx. the same time) and after about 5 minutes I can definitely feel some reaction in the plaque itself. I don't know if it's doing anything, however, and rather than waste my time in what might be a fruitless endeavor, I'd like to hear from anyone who's done heat treatment and what the result was. Thanks!

[Old Man]

Ocelot:

You should check out Tim468's method of doing his VED treatments. Seems that he does it with a system while soaking in hot water and doing the VED therapy at that time. It is somewhere back on the VED thread. Might even be in the recap thread on the Child Board about VED usage.

I think that any heat applied to the groin area before any stretching or VED therapy would be beneficial. I did some of that in the past.

Old Man

[Hawk]

Search HYPERTHERMIA, HEAT, INFRARED (in separate one word searches)

You will find a ton.  Like most, I think it will not hurt, that it is good before and after VED or Traction, but I know of no dramatic results on Peyronies Disease from hyperthermia, at least on the forum.

[nemo]

Guys, I just got freaked out by something I read on the forum regarding heat therapy and that you shouldn't exceed 40C heat or you risk cellular damage!  

I've been using one of those rice socks for heat since I noticed what may be a new indentation.  So last night I used a meat thermometer to see how hot it gets and it was like 130 degrees Farenheit right out of the microwave!  I'd been using it as a wrap for 20 minute sessions - maybe once a day.  By the end of the 20 minutes it's not very warm at all.  

Someone tell me I haven't permanently damaged myself!  It never was hot enough to hurt or anything but that "cellular damage" deal has got me a little freaked.

Nemo