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Author Topic: Better combinations of Multi-Vitamins and Vitamin Complex pills  (Read 1311 times)
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despise
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« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2009, 12:24:49 AM »

I eat a bowl of cereal of multigrain cheerios everyday before work and I have to say I feel like crap within hours =P I wonder if it's because its pro-inflammatories or because of all the vitamins I most likely don't need.
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Hawk
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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2009, 12:49:17 PM »

Interesting link on cautions about folate and B12 not directly related to Peyronies Disease.

http://www.psa-rising.com/eatingwell/vb12_folate04.html
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slowandsteady
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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2009, 10:50:46 AM »

Hawk, you might want to look at Custom Capsule. You can leave out folic acid altogether.

s&s
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slowandsteady
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2009, 11:34:25 PM »

BUT is methylfolate any safer than folic acid?  The both provide the same underlying nutrient.  - George

One big question is whether it's the unmetabolized folic acid that's causing all of the problems, and I don't think that this question has been conclusively answered.

Not everyone metabolizes folic acid well. Methylfolate is the form your body converts folic acid to, so at least that part of the risk is retired.

There seems to be an issue in people who have high folate but low B12:

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About 23 percent of the volunteers had B12 concentrations that the researchers deemed low. Within that group, people who had the highest concentrations of folic acid were 9.6 times as likely to show signs of cognitive impairment as those with less folic acid. Surprisingly, anemia was also 3.1 times as common in the group with high concentrations of folic acid.

Among people with healthy B12 levels, however, folic acid appeared to protect against cognitive impairment, and it had no significant relationship to anemia, the researchers report in the January American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.


"We only found potential adverse effects in people who had low vitamin B12," Morris says. "Generally speaking, folate is good for cognition."

Pharmacologist A. David Smith of the University of Oxford in England estimates that 1.8 million U.S. seniors may be at risk of anemia and cognitive impairment because of folic acid fortification. Governments in Europe and the United Kingdom have not mandated fortification, though British officials are considering it.

"I'm recommending to the U.K. government that they don't go ahead with fortification," says Smith. He also suggests that another form of folic acid might be safer.

"Folic acid fortification: the good, the bad, and the puzzle of vitamin B-12" states:
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1 ) Is the balance between folate and vitamin B-12 status equally as important as the absolute concentrations of these vitamins? The application of mathematical modeling may help to answer this question (18).
2 ) By what mechanisms does a high folate status in persons with a low vitamin B-12 status cause anemia and cognitive impairment?
3 ) Is unmetabolized folic acid the culprit? Data from a small number of subjects in the United States indicate that folic acid accounts for 16% of the plasma folate in persons whose total plasma folate concentration is >50 nmol/L (19). More data on the prevalence and concentrations of folic acid in the blood are needed, the factors that influence it, and the effects it has on folate one-carbon metabolism.
4 ) Given the recent findings, would it be safer to use methylfolate instead of folic acid as a supplement?
5 ) Is the imbalance between folate and vitamin B-12 associated with any other adverse effects, particularly in vulnerable sectors of the population (eg, pregnant and lactating women and infants)? A preliminary report from India suggests that such an imbalance (low vitamin B-12 and high folate status) in pregnant mothers may have adverse effects on the health of their children (20).
6 ) Is the complex relation between folate and cancer (8, 17) possibly a reflection in part of folate's interaction with vitamin B-12?

The safest conclusion would be to make sure enough B12 is received. For myself, I'm taking l-methylfolate since my homocysteine is higher than I'd like.

s&s
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Hawk
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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2009, 08:02:24 PM »

Exactly George.  I am NOT looking for another form of folate/folic acid, I am looking to reduce the daily load of all forms of folate while still getting other B vitamins.
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George999
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2009, 05:32:41 PM »

The problem with Folic acid is whether you decide to take it or leave it, you decide to do the same for the entire B-complex group since they always accompany each other.

This Canadian site has the new AOR B-complex. No folic acid; they use methylfolate instead.

s&s

BUT is methylfolate any safer than folic acid?  The both provide the same underlying nutrient.  - George
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slowandsteady
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2009, 04:56:09 PM »

The problem with Folic acid is whether you decide to take it or leave it, you decide to do the same for the entire B-complex group since they always accompany each other.

This Canadian site has the new AOR B-complex. No folic acid; they use methylfolate instead.

s&s
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Hawk
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2009, 03:41:46 PM »

I don't disagree with any of that George but my plan has always begun with a base multi with E, C B complex, CoQ10, pycogenol, lycopene, arginine, etc added to that base at specific times through the day.

The problem with Folic acid is whether you decide to take it or leave it, you decide to do the same for the entire B-complex group since they always accompany each other.
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George999
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2009, 09:32:29 AM »

For whatever its worth, I have some issues with the concept of multi-vitamins in general.  One, of course, is the fact that it forces one to take nutrients they may not really need and which may, in fact, as Hawk suggests, be harmful.  The other, which is just as big a concern for me, is that multi-vitamins often contain key essential nutrients which I might sorely need, which are formulated in a way in which they are biologically useless.  I am thinking especially of multiple fat soluble vits which are notoriously ineffective in dry form.  And this creates a chain of deficiencies since other nutrients REQUIRE proper levels of those fat soluble vits in order to be properly metabolized.  So, for that reason alone, I have never been crazy about multi's.  I prefer the other approach in which I have been likened by my wife on multiple occasions to a chicken pecking at my pile of little pills.  That way, at least I can control both the quantity and quality of what I am consuming.  - George

PS - Additional problems are the fact that certain nutrients simply don't go well together and others are better taken at certain times of the day.  Some are better taken in time release formulation for both safety and effectiveness and others not.  Doing all this with a multi is a huge compromise.
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Hawk
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« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2009, 11:10:29 PM »

Because it reduces birth defects it is added to cereals, breads, multi vitamins, etc.  Problem is that it is linked to increases in several forms of cancer.  Since I (along with 75%  of the population) do not plan on getting pregnant, I would like to be able to increase my B intake without increasing my folic acid intake.
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Nemo
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« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2009, 10:50:00 PM »

Hawk, what's the concern with Folic Acid?  My doc has recomended I take quite a bit for an adrenal fatigue problem I have ... is there a concern insofar as Peyronie's?

Nemo
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slowandsteady
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2009, 12:57:16 PM »

Does anyone know of a B-complex without folic acid.

I have the same concerns too. I take methylfolate instead of folic acid. I like AOR's new formulation of their B-complex. I usually get mine from RI, but they are still stocking the old formulation with folic acid.

Thorne makes some interesting B complexes. Here is a nice one. It's a mixture of folinic acid and methylfolate.

s&s
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Hawk
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« on: August 23, 2009, 03:39:28 PM »

Does anyone know of a B-complex without folic acid.  It is outrageous how the saturate every food, every multi-vitamin, and every B-complex with the stuff.

I also like multi-vitamins with low Calcium, folic acid, D, and NO iron.  The No iron is pretty easy to find.

There are some concerns about all of these and I like to exclude them or regulate them in individual pill form.
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