PEYRONIE'S TREATMENTS - Questions, Plans & Remarks

[Noway]

Hello everyone I'm new to this site. I came to this site because I have no way  venting my problems with peyronies disease which I think I have. I am 23 years old and I believe I have peyronies disease but I believe Ive had this since 20. Ive been to 2 urologist and the same one twice. The first urologist I went too she said it was all in my head and I'm not thinking right. She checked around gave me Viagra which didn't work and sent me to a vascular laboratory which came out good except for penile brachial indices are within limits however it is noted that there are slightly increased which would be in keeping with possible medial wall calcification of the penile vessels. Which calcification in the penis like lumps is going towards peyronies disease. Well anyways I went back to see her and all she asked me is if I had diabetes and I said no.. then she said the same thing I cant help you your not thinking right so she sent me to see another urologist and she said hes the "go to guy" if he cant find nothing wrong then I dont know. So I went to go and see him and I told him about the bend and how it goes downwards sometimes which is another thing that's got me puzzled sometimes my penis is perfectly straight and then sometimes it goes downwards not as straight and I get very painful erections most of the time. But anyways got off track the second urologist the guy told me its probably peyronies disease so he wanted me to take pictures. So I took some pictures and went back and he said that its straight and that I should stop worrying about it and just get into a relationship. Then I told him I get different erections which I do sometimes its straighter then other times and that I still get painful erections. He told me its impossible to get different erections. So we left it at that. Also when I did try sex when the female was on top it hurt alot. So I went to my family doctor told him the whole story so he gave me some levitra 100mg and it did nothing for me it actually makes it worst. But he made me another appointment with another urologist I'm so fed up and I got to go see another one now . I also can feel a lump on the left side of my penis and underneath It feels like they connect and I still get painful erections and I am having alot of trouble reaching orgasm it takes me forever its so frustrating. I also dont want to try sex again because it hurts and if I go limp its really humiliating and frustrating and it really bugs me I'm only 23 and I cant even have a girlfriend or sexual relations. If anyone can help me and give me tips it would be much appreciated.

[newguy]

Noway - I think you need to provide the urologist with as much information as possible at every stage. That way it will stop a lot of this back and forth. If your erection is different some days than others, then take pictures of it then too. At least that way the urologist will be able to offer a very clear opinion on whether there is an issue or not relating to curvature.

The pain you are experiencing does suggest that something unusual is going on here. Maybe you can go to see one of the more respected peyronie's doctors and see when he thinks..

[Noway]

New guy very good advice when I go see the next urologist I will take pictures when its good and bad and see what he sais. I still have the reading on the vascular lab. I have been living with this so long its so frustrating.

[newguy]

Yes, many of us here have been living with peyronie's for a long time. It can be very dispiriting at times, but we have had some success stories and there are therapies here that may be of benefit to you if you are suffering from peyronie's.

[Noway]

Newguy what are some of the therapies for peyronies disease?

[LWillisjr]

Newguy what are some of the therapies for peyronies disease?

Noway,
Many therapies are posted on this site. I know it is frustrating but you need to read some of the threads as it is too difficult to to into all that detail here. You need to look into oral meds (like Pentoxifyline), and either traction or VED use. Traction and VED's are often marketed as penis lengthening devices, but many here have found them helpful for Peyronies therapy.

More aggressive therapies are Verapamil injections and ultimately surgery. But each person's situaiton is unique.

Les

[Noway]

Peyronies disease is worst then cancer. I dont care 23 without a penis thats working and I can get girls dont get me wrong. But peyronies disease is worst then cancer I literally cry myself to sleep....

The only resort is a damn surgery that gives you like some chance but then they shorten the side to equal the lesser of a side. Why cant they take the longer side and equal it too that. Its frustrating that this has to happen and that the public cant educate people enough to watch over your penis or your parents cant tell you things to watch out for. But people care more about damn planting trees and car accidents.

Like honestly "therapies" pills but it doesnt get rid of the plague the plague will be there they need a pill to deteriate the plague and the lumps for good. Like i said they care more about planting trees then a more serious problem like peyronies disease its like cancer in a sense and I think its worst. I bet if the president of the united states had peyronies disease he would find
a cure quickly.

[cowboyfood]

.... If anyone can help me and give me tips it would be much appreciated.

Noway,

You asked for some "tips" and a few members provided you with tips.  With all due respect, you are not acting on this forum like you "appreciate" the tips.  

I empathize with your fear, but in the words of another member, Tim, quit thinking so "black and white."  Your venting includes several unfounded assertions.   Keep in mind, thousands of others read this forum.  

You need to get your head straight, and this forum can help you with that, I know from personal experience.  

CF

[Old Man]

Noway:

Welcome to the forum. As Cowboy says, get your facts and acts together. A lot of time and effort has been put into this forum to make it what it is today. So, ask and it shall be given - anyone here will bend over backwards to help you, just let us know what you need.

Now about the president having Peyronies Disease, yes, I personally know of at least one in the very near past, had Peyronies Disease and there was nothing that could be done for him. My personal uro was at one time his personal doctor at the Naval Hospital at Bethesda, MD. He related the president had a severe bend upwards past the 90 degree mark. Nothing seemed to help him.

You should take some action to as least try some of the things guys on this forum have and had some success. Read up on all the subjects that interest you the most and you will find a world of good information that just might lead you in the right direction.

Regards, Old Man

[ocelot556]

There was also testimony in the Bill Clinton debacle of a trial that he had Peyronie's Disease - well, that or a congenital curve. One of the women accusing him of philandering testified to the knowledge of his "bend" to prove that she had been intimate with him. Keep in mind, the President is just a man. Presidents have suffered from alzheimers, cancer, heart disease, etc.

As incredibly off-topic as it is, it's still interesting! Especially Old Man's anecdote. So when you think your life is over because of your Peyronies Disease, just think - a man with (probably) a much worse case of the disease managed to ascend to the highest office in the land!

[sgtnick]

Noway:

It appears to me that Peyronie's Disease is not your only problem.  Your anger, hostility, and self-pity [crying yourself to sleep] are issues far more serious than a broke dick.  

Every man that has Peyronies Disease will or will not get fixed.  Simple as that.  Spewing your venom all over this web site has no bearing on the success you may or may not achieve.  You need to read and listen  [take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth] and just maybe you'll learn about our disease.  No one asked for your negative thoughts or comments and they are darn sure not appreciated.

You may ask all the questions you want or you may make all the positve comments you want.  You will even be encouraged to share
your successes [or failures] and you may have some good things to happen for you.  However, pal, if you have Peyronie's Disease then
you are in for some real challenges and you need to shut up and listen, read and study for a long while.

I wish you the best and look forward to hearing about your success in the future.  Meanwhile, count your blessings and find a way to make the best of a very, very trying situation.

[Noway]

Im going to see another urologist but he hasnt called yet its been about 2 months so I dont know when my appointment is.

[Tim468]

Noway...I am going to guess that the "sgt" in "sgtnick" stands for sergeant!

But you know what? It's OK for you to be mad. But being mad or sad doesn't fix problems. Problems are meant to be solved, not to be the source of drinking, confusion, constant states of anger, etc.

Whether we gently nudge you towards taking care of yourself, or kick your butt that way, the trip you take is yours. Ultimately, it is your choice. Pain is not optional in life, but suffering is optional. My advice is to stop being so confused and start learning what is available to you. For instance, you said "Why cant they take the longer side and equal it too (sic) that?". Well, they can, and do. It's called grafting. The only problem is that grafts fail sometimes, and a penis that ends up scarred worse is no help to a man, whereas a functioning (but slightly shorter) penis is a help to him. This has been discussed on these boards here. Links to articles discussing these techniques are posted here. What I do not see from you is evidence that you are really doing your homework here, reading these articles and learning.

And FWIW, Peyronie's is NOT worse than cancer. We have men here who have had both and they can quickly set you straight on that account. Of course, if you took some time to read their already posted messages, you'd know that.

Tim

[Noway]

My scarring has calcified so does that mean medication and pills will not work? With surgery do they remove the lumps and scar tissue alltogether? Also my penis is really good sometimes but I cant ejaculate I try forever so do you think its peyronies disease causing that? If I masterbate for a long time I lose my erections.

[ocelot556]

Noway -

Pentox has been reported to reverse calcification in some patients. I also have a uro who gave me a topical ointment made of Acetyl-L-Carnitine and EDTA. The latter is a chelating agent, which means it removes heavy metals from the body. My uro thinks that this can help alleviate calcified plaque, or at least prevent it from worsening.

And we don't yet know how Xiaflex will affect calcified plaques. They aren't including them in the FDA testing, since they want to put forward the best results. It could be that Xiaflex works just as well in calcified plauques. We won't know until it hits the market, I guess.

[Noway]

 Ocelot556 like I said Ive had peyronies disease for as long as I can remember and I think it just has come to a hault it doesnt get worse and its not getting better. I still experience alot of pain and a downward bend. I even have pain on left side of shaft when my penis is not erect. The urologist said that medication wouldnt do anything and everytime I went to see another urologist they make me wait forever. The first urologist I seen doesnt even want to see me anymore because she said its all in my head. When she made me go for tests it said right on the piece of paper that I have calcification lumps within the penile vessels. They dont seem to care and they do as little as possible to get me out of there office because im 23 years old and they believe this is impossible. Viage levitra do not work at all ive tried levitra 100 mg its no good. I find it makes it way worst after I use it like the next day. My penis is more messed up. The only thing my first uro said is if I had diabetes which I dont and she doesnt even take more tests or anything.  

[LWillisjr]

I don't know why Dr. Levine seems to like the traction with verapamil injections, topical verapamil did nothing for me, and I've read no study to date yet that indicates verapamil helps peyronies in any way.  If someone knows of a study please post it, I have not read it yet.  

Comebackid

Levine takes a "3-pronged" approach. It isn't any one single thing, but the combination. The combination is 1. meds, 2. VI's, 3. Traction.  He believes stretching the scar tissue while the Verapamil is working is best. He told me th wear the traction as much as I could following the VI's.

There is a study he did and it was availalbe on the internet. I think it has been posted here

Lesbefore.

[Noway]

How do you get ahold of this dr.levine

[Hawk]

This is how you contact Dr. Levine http://www.urologyspecialists.net/appointments.html

[Noway]

Is dr.levine the best? or would it be a waste of time going to see him?

[Noway]

Im a canadian citizian if I went to go see dr.levine would I still have to pay when I go and see him or would I have to get a referral from my doctor and papers? Like would it transfer over to him?  

[ocelot556]

Noway - I think you'll have to pay Levine if you're coming from out of the country. I think most US citizens with insurance have to pay him, as he's one of the countries foremost urologists and I believe his rates are higher than most. I'll defer to someone who may have actually SEEN him.

[astyanax]

Im a canadian citizian if I went to go see dr.levine would I still have to pay when I go and see him or would I have to get a referral from my doctor and papers? Like would it transfer over to him?

yeah, we're not covered if we leave the country.

if you're in southern ontario, get a referal to dr. brock in london -- he's apparently really highly regarded, I'm seeing him in sept myself.

however, expect a LONG wait (6 months) to see him.

[ComeBacKid]

Is that a six month wait to see him or any urologist? To be honest, I found no satisfaction in going to see Dr. Mullhall cause there is so little he had to offer except verapamil injections.  If you can get a doctor to prescribe you pentox through someone you know I'd just get on that while your waiting.  I know this is not easy for everyone unless you know the right people..  Also do you have the option of buying a private plan in southern ontario?

Comebackid

[astyanax]

Is that a six month wait to see him or any urologist? To be honest, I found no satisfaction in going to see Dr. Mullhall cause there is so little he had to offer except verapamil injections.  If you can get a doctor to prescribe you pentox through someone you know I'd just get on that while your waiting.  I know this is not easy for everyone unless you know the right people..  Also do you have the option of buying a private plan in southern ontario?

Comebackid

Just to see him, a urologist can take months, or days, depending on the doctor.

I originally was referred to a urologist, who I didn't know, is a expert on cancer.  It took 5 days to see him.

You can buy into a private plan for health here, but it's still the same doctors, the same wait -- the only real benefits you would get is 100% dental, and 100% prescription (which most jobs will ofer a plan for anyway), and a private room if you're sick in a hospital.

[LWillisjr]

Noway - I think you'll have to pay Levine if you're coming from out of the country. I think most US citizens with insurance have to pay him, as he's one of the countries foremost urologists and I believe his rates are higher than most. I'll defer to someone who may have actually SEEN him.

Ocelot556,
Why would you say you think he charges more if you haven't seen him? I go to Dr. Levine. He is a specialist and charges same as any other specialist. You also seldom have "just an appointment" with him. Mine was always in conjunction with an ultrasound, Verapamil Injection, etc. So these add to the cost of the "visit".

He also works through several insurance companies. I was fortunate in that he was "in network" for me.

Les

[Bluesman]

Hello,
I have read a ton of posts on this site already. Some where talking about herbal remedies, some successful, some not. I guess everybody's case is different so I am posting my own situation. About 3 years ago I was diagnosed with Peyronies Disease.
I was still able to have intercourse, I had no pain and not much of a curve, but more like an indentation on one side. It remains that way today.
My doctor said if I didn't have any discomfort, treatment was not needed.
Now, I am at the point where I cannot get a good enough erection for penetration, and the size has deminished. I tried Viagra but all I got was heart palpitations.
I do take high blood pressure and high cholesterol meds, so I am wondering if that is making things worse. My testosterone levels were all normal also.
Any input here would be greatly appreciated. I am 58 and my wife is 51 and neither of us are ready to give up our sex life. My doctor seems to really not care to treat this disease because he feels even herbal products could interact with my prescription meds.
Thanks!

[jackp]

Bluesman

The best advice I can give you to start with is go to the VED board and start the VED exercise. You want to keep your penis healthy and try to regain back some lost size.

The VED is very helpful but it takes some time to see results.

The only thing I will tell you is not to try the PGE1 or trimix shots in your penis for ED. In my case they caused more harm than good.

There is a ton a good information of this forum and a lot of men that will be glad to help.

Jackp

[Old Man]

Bluesman:

I have written you a private message which you should read as soon as possible. Listen to what JackP is stating in his post below. Read his history and your will see that he had real good success with the VED therapy prior to his penile implant surgery (which I might add was a great success when all else failed to help him).

In addition, listen to him about not getting the penile injections as they can and will have very bad side effects from which recovery may never come. There were 12 of them injected in my penis and each and every one caused more trauma that took a year to resolve.

So, bottom line, do not wait any longer, decide on a course of action for some sort of therapy. Hesitating will only prolong your problem.

Old Man

PS: If you are not familiar on how to open your private messages, please post so we can assist you in receiving and reading them.

[Bluesman]

Thanks guys!
It's a real tough thing to go through....
I appreciate the replies and will go to the VED board and read as much as I can.
Thanks again!

[newguy]

Bluesman

I'm glad that your curve isn't all that bad. Shame about the ED though. The endgame of severe ED problems is an implant. I'd certain suggest that you try various oral combinations first though. You suggest that viagra didn't work, but how about Viagra alongside l-arginine and Pycnogenol .. You could add this combo too:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19494825

Stick with it for a couple of months and see what happens.

Also, as the guys below rightly state VED use could help to exercise your penis and promote erections.

[hb]

Bluesman

Have you tried Cialis or Levitra? I'm on both Zestril for hypertension and Lipitor. All three of the ED drugs worked fine before I had to have PCA surgery for my prostate. Then the Peyronies showed up after the Edex and Trimix injections, but I disagree with some of the guys here as that being the cause. I was injecting too close to my body because my urologist never demonstrated the area to stay away from.

I also have a history of fibrosis disease in my immediate family which I think was a contributing factor to the Peyronies Disease. Currently I am doing the VED 26 week protocol and can notice a difference, besides continuing with Levitra. My noctural erections are normal, except for the curve.  

[Bluesman]

Thanks for the further responses.
I do intend on trying some supplements, but before I do so, I really need to consult my DR. to make sure there would be no dangerous side effects with the lisinopril and zocor. I also take Hydrochlorothiazide (HCTZ) which is a water pill that also contributes to ED. I forgot to mention that.
In response to someone's question about Levitra and Cialis, no, I haven't tried those....I really don't know if that would help if Viagra didn't, but it is worth a try.
What about niacin and vitamin E for starters.
I have read in some places on the Internet that those two can break down the fibrosis, or whatever is causing the Peyronies Disease?
Thank you all for being patient with me.
P.S. - I am also considering the VED board as suggested earlier....
I just want what works :-)

[hb]

Bluesman

I take lisinopril with HCTZ 20/25 or 25/20 dosage which caused me to go the ED Drug route. At first Viagra worked fine for me, but your body seems to get used to it after awhile and it doesn't work anymore. I would definitely try the smallest dose of either Cialis or Levitra. If those work, there are all sorts of solutions to the cost of either one. So keep posting and also try the VED.  

[Bluesman]

Bluesman

I take lisinopril with HCTZ 20/25 or 25/20 dosage which caused me to go the ED Drug route. At first Viagra worked fine for me, but your body seems to get used to it after awhile and it doesn't work anymore. I would definitely try the smallest dose of either Cialis or Levitra. If those work, there are all sorts of solutions to the cost of either one. So keep posting and also try the VED.

OK - Thank you - will talk to Doc tomorrow and see what he thinks..
What upsets me most is that he doesn't seem to make a big deal over this.
It's like - Oh well - you are getting older - you take meds...this is the price you pay...
I live VERY rural and choice of Docs are scarce. I have the best Internist in the County....maybe I should ask him to refer me to a Uro man? I just don't know if my insurance covers it.
Have a good evening!

[cowboyfood]

... At first Viagra worked fine for me, but your body seems to get used to it after awhile and it doesn't work anymore. ...

I don't think there is any research to support this assertion.

CF

[jackp]

Bluesmann

Talk to your doctor about switching off the HCTZ to Spironolactone 25mg. My doctor did several year ago. It is not as bad as HCTZ but any diuretic can cause us problems with ED. That helped me.

Jackp

[Bluesman]

Bluesmann

Talk to your doctor about switching off the HCTZ to Spironolactone 25mg. My doctor did several year ago. It is not as bad as HCTZ but any diuretic can cause us problems with ED. That helped me.

Jackp

I will ask, but we just got my pressure under control, and I doubt he will switch off the hctz. I have to get more involved with him regarding the Peyronies Disease/ED. He is a new doc since I just moved here and he doesn't know much about me yet. I will work with him and this forum and see where we go. hctz may contribute to ED, but there has been considerable size change, and that is embarrassing me and making it unable to perform with my wife.
Thanks for the follow-ups!

[hb]

Ok, I'll agree there is no research to support Viagra quitting after awhile. But it did happen to me and I have read of other cases on the Healing Well Prostate Cancer forum.

Currently, it does not work for me at all nor does Cialis, post PCA surgery with half my nerves removed. However, Levitra works ok but takes an hour to do it's thing. Both on-shore and off-shore versions have the same effect.

However, the Trimix works in 5 minutes

[jackp]

Bluesman

Unfortunately size loss is one of the side effects of peyronies. Before peyronies I was 5 1/2" about 18 months later I had lost 1 1/2". That was in 1995 back then the urologist had no clue what to do and this forum was not available.

After heart stents in 06 I asked my then urologist what could I do for sex. Because of my heart condition I had to wait another year before getting an implant. He wrote me a Rx for a VED and had the rep come to his office and fit it for me. It was a single cylinder model and the instructions were not very good and I proceeded to hurt myself.

After the failed implant attempt in 07 I found this forum and Old Man helped me get a exercise for the VED I had. I followed his advice and in about 3 months was starting to regain size. In the year I did the exercise I regained about 3/4" back. That exercise helped me have a better than expected outcome with my implant. The whole story is posted in My History the link is at the bottom of this post.

You must be proactive. Do the VED exercise, do not stop having sex with your wife you can find ways, try things like putting a pillow under her backside, toys, etc, what ever you as a couple are comfortable with. Just never - ever / never - ever /ever give up or stop trying.

A lot health issues took priority over me getting my implant. The 23rd of this month it will have been a year. I am blessed to have a wonderful wife of 41 years and have found the best implant surgeon in Dr. Milam at Vanderbilt.

If I can do it you can too. Good Luck.

Jackp

[parajack]

I was sent home from a rather uninterested Urologists's visit with a Peyronie's Disease diagnosis (made in about 3 seconds by the doc).  A very expensive prescription of 2000 tabs of Potaba and vitamin E, and come back in a couple of months...

I'm 53 with early stage  Peyronies Disease I believe with just minor pain during erection and little to no curvature resulting from a small mass.  I've spent a few hours reading here and the amount of info is a bit overwhelming.....

My first searches on the web took me to the Peyronies page of the biomediclabs.com websitse

My question is:  What should I make of this initially? ......  I've been very active with supplements and the bs of the industry since the early 80s....  I'm quite skeptical, but also a complete believer that well formulated supplements play a critical role in overall health and preventive medicine....

So very much of what I've read seems quite subjective.... a random technique here, another shot in the dark there....

If some of the more experienced members of the forum could try and serve me up an objective view of just what role the "Specialty Enzymes" might play in Peyronies Disease treatment I would be greatful....  I'm sure that as I read and learn more things will become somewhat more clear....  This is just my jumping off point....

Thanks,
Jack

[jackp]

That is exactly what my doctor put me on in 1995.

I have not tried Pentox but some here recommend it. I would go to the VED section and start the VED therapy, it will help keep your penis healthy and help keep you from loosing size.

Jackp

[newguy]

Parajack - Treatments that encourage erections, calm inflammatory processes and inhibit fibrosis have tend to be those recommended. That's the logic behind the prescribed treatments you are taking currently too.

A good starting point is the PAV cocktail (Pentoxifylline, l-Arginine, and Viagra). Some tops peyronie's urologists suggest this combo. I would add Pycnogenol because studies show that the synergy between L-arginine and pycnogenol is useful in promoting strong erections. Also Taurin (combined with niacin in some studies) are useful in combat various types of fibrosis.

There are a great many treatments that are potentially of use, but I'd go with the above if I was adverse to taking large numbers of supplements. Peyronie's disease studies are a bit thin on the ground, so the theory behind using some of these treatments is limited to animal models of peyronie's and/or their effectiveness in treating fibrosis in other areas of the body. The exception is with pentoxiflline which does appear to have some success in reducing peyronie's plaque in some individuals.

[parajack]

Thanks Newguy but let me reformulate my original question....  because of my inexperience with Peyronies and it's treatment, I haven't gathered the general knowledge base to be able to really know where to focus my efforts in terms of expanding the initial treatment prescribed by the Urologist I saw....  I'm sure I'll gain confidence here in short order but I'm initially still a bit stumped....

Is there general skepticism with supplements in general because of the reality that so many are scams and bs?  In browsing today, I ran across this website:  peyreton.com

"Peyreton is a definitive answer to Peyronie's Disease. The results are permanent and not only symptomatic. The treatment does need patience but not to an extent beyond normal ability. As a general rule, the most sever patients should see complete cure within three months of use. "  So there you have it.... 90 days with a single pill a day and we'll all be cured.......  I get the loud and clear msg here, but there are other sites which are far more intriguing and interesting to me....  

Yesterday, I reviewed the  fibromedica website and the Neprinol info.  I also looked at the Biomediclabs labs again...  So far, I haven't seen any real discussion on this... I saw someone else post a question about this same topic, but no replies...

"Neprinol® no longer includes the SEBkinase® blend that for the last 5 years made the Neprinol® enzyme blend such a success. "

Why does my early digging seem to reveal that there is little interest in this enzyme based therapy?  Is it because the enzyme based products are grouped with vitamins and supplements in general, and that approaches with same are only marginally helpful in treatment?  Is it because of the shear volumn of scams and useless stuff that's marauding around the web preying on Peyronies sufferers?

Jack

[newguy]

parajack - There is unfortunately no peyronie's quick fix, so supplements promising to be the "definitive answer to Peyronie's Disease" should be avoided. They have nothing to back up the "cure in three months" claim, primarily because that won't be what transpires. The peyreton.com site has testamonials going back to a time before the site was even registered. They feature "An in-house study by The Gordon's Herbal Research Center " which is listed here as a scam: http://onesickmother.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/07/gordons-herbal-research-center-scam.html

Neprinol I believe is similiar to Fibroym, which I use. It may well contain some ingredients that are useful, but I personally would place it in the second or even third tier of the kind of treatments you should be looking at. There's not much buzz about them because people have moved on to other treatments such as the ones i mentioned previously. Pentox and so on.  

[parajack]

Newguy,
thanks again for taking the time to reply....  I've just completed a multi-hour reading session and have found my way through many threads...  things are starting to become just a bit more clear now....

It's quite possible that I am very early on in the active phase(age 53) but can't really know for absolute sure.....  I've only had some very minor pain a few times during intercouse....  I  have no bend that I am aware of.  I do, however, clearly have a mass or inflamation of the erectile tissue on the top an inch or so below the head.  This mass seems pliable and only exhibits mild discomfort when I manipulate it, etc...  Cause is a big unknown, but I suppose could have been the result of some very aggressive sex a month / 6 weeks or so ago...  certainly can't define or remember any specific action or event....

I'm sure you've had plenty of members of the forum chime in with early stage symptoms...  In most cases I'm assuming that the disease progresses through a fairly predictable evolution (albeit with different variables for each person), and that I can look forward to bending, shortening, etc.. with calcification over time.....

<PAV cocktail (Pentoxifylline, l-Arginine, and Viagra). Some tops peyronie's urologists suggest this combo. I would add Pycnogenol because studies show that the synergy between L-arginine and pycnogenol is useful in promoting strong erections>>

I have no clue if my less than interested Urologist will prescribe the Pentox for me... - if he doesn't, what would be the best way to get a prescription and get started - sooner than later....

From what I've read on the Hyperthermia, the 60 member study and all, it seems targeted for those with advanced stage Peyronies Disease.  Seems to me that it might very well be helpful at any stage of the progression... what do you think?  I have a nice hottub which has seen very little use lately and we've even discussed selling it.  Should I start daily 30 min soakings at 40 deg C?

I saw a link to a VED but can't remember where at this point.... Could you give me a link to a proper, medical grade unit that I can order without a prescription?

I have a sound supplement regime in place... I have 25 years of experience with Pycnogenol and only take a maint. dossage.  I should probably work back up to a full saturation dossage, perhaps reducing some other antioxidants to keep things balanced.....

Goal for next week:

Get going on the PAV cocktail
Order a VED
Start Hyperthermia
Continue with a non synthetic E complex & increase the Pycnogenol dossage.

How am I doing so far?  Any suggestions - Comments?

Thanks Again

Jack

[newguy]

It's positive that the pain isn't too bad, as some members struggle with pain for years, a state that doesn't even appear to be recognised by many urologists. Each persons condition appears to take its own path. For some men the whole process from pain (if present) to a stable condition is fast, and for others its a slow process. As every case is individual, it's really hard to say what the endpoint for you could be. What we can safely say tho, is that by using treatments mentioned on this board, you stand the best possible chance of a more positive end result.

Your plan to start using the VED really is the right way to go. A number of men here have had positive experiences with it, and I can only think that as you currently have no curvature, that its use may even benefit you more than most.  I'd say that most men coming here already have some curvature, so again you're really getting on top of this at quite an early stage. As for the hottub, well it can't hurt and will get blood flowing s give it a go .

As for pentox, well many men have persuaded their doctor to give it to them by taking these studies to them: https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,772.0.html so maybe that will sway him.

[Angus]

I saw a link to a VED but can't remember where at this point.... Could you give me a link to a proper, medical grade unit that I can order without a prescription?

          Parajack, this is the post you need from Old Man. This link will take you directly to the post in the VED forum.

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,25.msg22719.html#msg22719

[Tim468]

Here are other links - if they work.

Tim

Hand pump

http://secure.sciencecompany.com/Vacuum-Pump-with-Pressure-Gauge-P6489C692.aspx

Cylinders

http://www.bostonpump.com/

other examples are out there

[parajack]

Well I finally received my VED today after well over two weeks.  Been out of town so couldn't really do anything with one anyway, but I'm ready to start.  Before I left town I also found another Urologist who was pretty much the exact opposite of the doc I saw first.  This guy clearly has some interest in the disease and my welfare.  He's familiar with Dr. Chu, doesnt recommend wasting $ on Potaba, and didn't hesitate to prescribe the Pentox for me.....

After exam, he suggested that he could proceed with an ultrasound, but he felt strongly that even with a substantial mass nothing would show up due to the lack of calcification, and the early stages of the disease.....

I feel fortunate to have started the PAV (minus the V) early on in the evolution of my Peronies.  I've been taking Pycnogenol since it was first imported into the US back in the late 80s, but have upped my dosage to a full body weight dossage (1 mg per pound).  Although I've launched into treatment early, I'm still, however, subject to painful erections and things seem to be getting progressively worse.

Are there others browsing the forum here who are in the early stages as I am? I have very definate indentations - perhaps minor hourglass, a substantial mass, and painful erections to the point that intercourse isn't working. It seems like the vast majority of info and dialogue on this forum is geared towards the latter stages of Peronies.  I'd like to focus on the early stages - where I am right now and how best to attempt to minimize the negative effects of the future evolution of the disease which I'm sure are coming....

As far as the VED goes.... I know that pain during use of the VED MUST be respected.... If I have pain during all erections these days, how should I approach use of the VED?