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Author Topic: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet  (Read 8807 times)

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joao

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2018, 08:54:03 PM »

I had peyronie's for about two years and it is now cured probably 100%
i am quite sure it cured because of intermittent fasting ( after over 8 months of normal intermittent fasting ).
i am 60 years old and i am convinced it is not easy to cure and even less at this age.
i am quite sure that now the skin of the forehead ( foreskin ) is rosier then ever ( in my memory ), so irrigated with blood.
The same for the head of my penis ( glans ) is more irrigated with blood and larger then before the peyronie's started ( when not in erection ).

it was not one of the most severe cases, but is was enough to cause a lot of pain for many months ( even without erection )

i read quite a lot and it makes sense that the intermittent fasting is the reason of the cure.

i finished a water fast of 7 days almost 2 months ago.

But i am quite sure it was solved before that because of the intermittent fasting.
Since i did not wrote it down i am not 100 % sure (but about 99 % sure).
i did a 3 day water fast before but it did not make it cure ( it is really a matter of time at least in my case )
Do not do a many day waterfast without doing first intermittent fasting ( unless you are very young )
remember that fasting while you have diabetes or insulin deficiency can be very dangerous.
in doubt stop the fasting or intermittent fasting until you are sure about not having that.

i tried a few things before and during the intermittent fasting but not long term as i did not feel very secure about it
let us say results took too long and i had not enough discipline and fate to do them long enough ( with the exception of the intermittent fasting ).

i did some jelqing and i believe it can help for some, but i also think it can hurt as well and if your underlying problem is not solved jelcking probably does not solve.
i did do some jelging with coconut oil relatively close to an infrared lamp ( do not burn yourself and increase time and decrease distance gradually ).
it seemed promising ( it irrigates the penis even a while after you finish ) but i did not do it long enough and i think it is not the reason of my cure.

intermittent fasting or fasting or ketogenic diet is not easy but i did it for general health reasons
not really for the peyronie's
i hoped to cure the peyronie's as well

but since it took months i stopped expecting it.

if the intermittent fasting it is hard for you to do
think that it is for your health and mental resistance.

i am very convinced it causes regeneration in general ( literature confirms ).

it also decreased my not so severe essential tremor starting after about one month.

it started to made my white beard and pubic hear turn black again (now about 40-60%) long before the peyronie's cured.
But this only happens very gradual

do not expect fasting or intermittent fasting or ketogenic diet make you see results in a few weeks

( a young person could FEEL a difference in a matter of days, older persons have to count with weeks of months )
But for SEEING a difference better count with months of even better do not expect it.

if you try intermittent fasting or ketogenic diet ( or a combination )
look for and avoid mistakes you can make.
one of the mistakes is (in the case of ketogenic diet)  if you use more than 20 % meat ( proteins ) your body will turn it in glucose
if you measure your glucose do not expect it to fall close to zero ( even if you do not use carbohydrates, sugar, frutose or lactose ).
even after 7 days of water fasting ( no oil, no juices, no nothing ) glucose did not drop below 54 mg/dL ( in my case )
during intermittent fasting it only dropped to 69 mg/dl

i mention this because i expected it to drop more.
 





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NeoV

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2018, 09:48:16 PM »

Joao, thanks for the detailed post.

Glucose dysregulation is at the root of aging (through glycosis and ROS) and parkinson's and neurological diseases, so it makes sense that your tremor got better. I'm really happy to hear about your success.

Fasting or keto also fixes your body's own endogenous antioxidant system (antioxidants made within the body, such as CoQ10, Glutathione, and SOD).
Instead of taking CoQ10 and rubbing SOD cream on your penis, get rid of insulin resistance and let your body work how it was supposed to. I go into this a bit in my new video: https://youtu.be/7KLlVU0H1Yw?t=1035

Insulin resistance also LOWERS nitric oxide and damages the lymph system and your entire body.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/30025187/

Also, insulin resistance causes "sticky blood," which is so often cited as being correlated with Peyronie's.
I will update the original post and flesh it out with studies soon.

Keep up the good work man!
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SF99

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2018, 12:10:22 AM »

I'm confused about the role of diet in stabilizing/eliminating the disease. According to this article, a low cholesterol diet could be effective in preventing plaque build-up. This is used to treat plaque build-up in the arteries. It's pretty frustrating having so much conflicting info.
https://www.superfoodly.com/peyronies-disease-curved-penis-treatment/
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NeoV

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2018, 12:42:44 AM »

That is vegan (sugar industry in disguise) PROPOGANDA.
They spend millions to maintain websites like that and nutritionfacts.
Dietary cholesterol does not cause blood cholesterol to raise at all, that is well established.

LOW cholesterol causes Peyronie's, because it is closely related to CoQ10 and vitamin D. Statins lower cholesterol and CAUSE Peyronie's.

Heart disease is caused by carbohydrates and very low density LDL, which is caused by high blood sugar. This is also known as remnant cholesterol. LDL cholesterol is the weakest indicator of atherosclerosis. You need to look at your triglyceride to HDL ratio. High triglycerides are caused by a high carbohydrate diet. If your body cannot use lipids due to carbohydrate dependancy, you have insulin resistance and fats will have nowhere to go. They sit around and become very small density LDL, but this is not a result of eating fat or cholesterol. Saturated fats increase cholesterol but this is not a bad thing. Read in depth about statins and cholesterol. We have all been lied to since the 1950s and Ancel Key's "heart hypothesis" which was based on the Seven Country Study, a deeply biased and laughable study. Keys was a bully and we are all suffering the effects of that study and industry funded research to this day.

All of this said, DO NOT combine carbohydrates with fats. You need to alter your gut biome and mitochondrial DNA by consuming fats and no carbs. Until your body learns how to properly use lipids, you are in a dangerous spot and can surely get heart disease.

Heart disease is caused by insulin resistance and diabetes.

If you are vegan, you can do keto vegan too.
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TonySa

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2018, 11:17:44 AM »

Hey Neo,
I too am on a meat based Keto diet, for almost 6 months now.  That said,  I just don’t understand folks on the anti-vegan wagon...calling it propaganda.  I know they can come across strong, but given the treatment of animals in the industrial food complex that’s understandable.  Plus, like you said one can eat a healthy vegan keto diet as well.
Tony
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Thomas2

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2018, 05:26:45 PM »

i have been vegan since 19 to 24 yo roughly when disease first came. Just wanted to put my testament.

I still think vegan diet is feasible and if done right more healthy, i know nothing on other stuff.  My parents stayed on keto-diet for a summer 10 years ago, they nearly destroyed their livers and kidneys, my mother turned into an old lady with low density bones...
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joao

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2018, 06:35:42 PM »

Hey Neo and others,
I posted here after i got better from Peyronie's ( but from other health problems as well )
because i red forums as well while i had Peyronie's.
I mean i think i had to do this posting at least once.
Reading forums was confusing but it still helps because the articles give you hope and allow you to fight for your health.
It is a struggle when you have Peyronie's or probably more when you have tremor or even essencial tremor ( considered not treathening ).
I do not remember having found a forum as interesting or as good as this one.
So i am glad to end up in this one ( and reading it, i just intended to post and then leave ).

I saw your youtube video and think you are right.
Your voice was not very loud ( that could be because here i hear the waves of the ocean in the background ).
I red a lot about intermittent fasting ( IF ) and ketogenic diet and of course about getting in ketosis.
And it not easy either.

I did not measure ketone bodies (but i did measure glucose).
I think doing it can help but i think it probably will make things even more confusing.
If you do do not draw conclusions too soon you can or should do it off course.

I give a few examples * why it can confuse you even more.

After the 7 day water fasting i started to eat more carbohydrates than i did before ( when i did a combination of keto and IF )
because maybe i had to catch up ( that is what i think ) for the regeneration to take place.
you can do IF and keto forever if you want but you cannot do long term water fasting forever.
My main goal was to cause regeneration and especially neurogenesis ( especially neurogenesis takes 6 months to mature 1/3 of the new neurons ).
And that is what i think happened.

That is also why i gave importance to gray hair turning black again.
stemcells of hair and stemcells for neurons come from the same place ( originally the neural tube )
to some extent they can migrate.
They can migrate in your brain ( it is easy to find info about that ).
Maybe they can migrate between hair and brain ( that is what scientists do and it works. They collect stem cells from your brain and inject them in your brain or in your body with the intention to reach your brain ).
If this is true then these stemcell could migrate to your penis.
I am afraid it is not the highest priority for the stemcells in your facial hair.
Stem cells from your pubic hair make a better chance.
That is why i mentioned the pubic hair turning black ( the ones that turned black are more black then the ones that stayed black )

I sidetracked and did not give one example yet.
Here comes the example.
*
so after starting eating carbohydrates etc after the 7 day water fasting.
glucose shot up to 160
to go down to 100 only the next day
to go back to normal for me ( less then 100 ) while i do mild IF now.
I did not panic when it shot up only because i new in before about this happening in such a case ( I HAD RED ABOUT IT ).

If i had not known about it i would have panicked and think that i had messed it all up ( that i had done something wrong and caused diabetes )
I think the body or delays to make larger amounts or insulin again or it happens on purpose to rack up the deposits all over the bodies.
When i take in more carbohydrates / glucose i feel the blood pressure going up ( i do not really need to measure ).
Just to say it is no mathematic, it is not 1+1.
I have no diabetes and never had ( or knew about it ) ( in fact i think i got it but did not want to measure and just started with fasting and IF ).
When as a side effect the Peyronie's cured, the tremor got better and better and my hear turned more and more black ( still not over 40-60 % as i think it is not the upper priority of the body ).

The other example i wanted to give is that i think that measuring your ketone bodies can confuse even more than measuring glucose.

Because i think that ketone bodies going up shows your that you are burning fat ( that you got in ketosis ).
But also that you are not using all of it.
So just to say that i think them going up is a good sign, but them not going up could be even better because you could be in ketosis and your body able to use all of it. It can do so only when it is metabolically very healthy already ( the mitochondria ).

Thanks Neo and others for all the feedback that you already gave.

I did not use anything other topic than coconut oil.
I did not use cialis, vitamins or anything else.
not internal nor external.
I did not spend money, i just saved money and time ( except for the studying )

I think the IF + keto > ketosis did the job(s)

while i think IF is the main key
for me keto makes IF easier ( but keto is good on its own. keto on its own for me is more dificult than IF )
and IF makes long term fasting easier or even possible ( is necessary to do it in a healthy way )
If you do make mistakes, long term fasting could cause damage ( especially if one is diabetic )

If i did confuse you with too much information
then just remember this.
start intermittent fasting, do not start with more then 12 hours a day.

do that for about 3 weeks and then take your next step ( inform you beter or go slowly ( weeks or months ) in the direction of 18 hours IF a day if possible )

Joao

I did not red other therapies this time.
I am sure they are very interesting and can work, but this way (ketosis) is the most complete and sustainable.
Probably one of the most dificult, at least at first sight.
As always there are some risks if you are not well prepared.
If in doubt return to normal or check a doctor.


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NeoV

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2018, 10:23:10 PM »

Thanks again for all the info Joao.
Intermittent fasting is an amazing tool to beat insulin resistance! Dr. Jason Fung has a lot of books, research, and YouTube videos on this.

To others, yes veganism by itself is a great cause. But the sugar industry pays vegan doctors or supporters as well as funds websites that blatantly lie and harm people. Veganism is fine, and yes keto can be vegan.

Bone density is fine on keto, and only got worse in children with epilepsy due to their medication and low protein intake.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24800673
"Our data suggest that maintaining a KD for more than 5 y does not pose any major negative effects on body composition, bone mineral content, and bone mineral density in adults with GLUT-1 DS, a finding that is at variance with previous reports focusing on children with intractable epilepsy."

Low carb diets have no effect on kidneys
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29904998/

High protein seems to be fine for kidneys as well.
Nutrients | Free Full-Text | Higher Protein Intake Is Not Associated with Decreased Kidney Function in Pre-Diabetic Older Adults Following a One-Year Intervention—A Preview Sub-Study | HTML

Protein does get converted into glucose but at a very slow rate. Protein is definitely important, but going absolutely no protein or low may be necessary for treating severe insulin resistance. For me, too much protein definitely can give me a bit of nerve pain, but not much.
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Paolo

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2018, 02:51:02 AM »

I have just started supplementing with Gelatin powder for its 'anti-stress' benefits, particularly the Glycine and Proline content, helps with Cortisol overload, Cortisol = stress. I believe it will also help after cardio exercise and with sleep  :)

Diabetes and Gelatin are mentioned (for those interested) here Gelatin, stress, longevity

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skunkworks

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2018, 05:09:43 AM »

So though I treated my size loss and erectile dysfunction effectively with traction and heat, the dents/hourglassing still remained.

I have been on a carnivore diet for nearly 3 months now, essentially grassfed pieces of steer (beef, fat, gristle, liver if I can stomach it) and canned sardines, drinking only water. I have also been periodically doing 48 hour water fasts. Dents are slowly disappearing. I am very very very very surprised by this, I have had those dents since 2010. 

Fasting previous to carnivore diet, had no discernible effect. Previous to this I was eating a paleo style diet, no wheat, dairy, added sugar, legumes etc.

Jalanlong

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #60 on: August 20, 2018, 09:54:53 PM »

I am thinking of starting the Carnivore Diet. Are you still having improvements?  I have moderate Peyronies and was wondering if the diet could help.
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skunkworks

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #61 on: August 21, 2018, 02:53:41 AM »

I have had no chance to fast again (too much going on in business world) but previous improvements have remained. I am 100% certain diet can help.

JS1991

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2018, 07:59:08 PM »

If any of you know Jordan Peterson, his daughter Mikhaila has terrible arthritis throughout her entire body and got a hip and ankle replacement at 17. After experimenting she found that a carnivore diet cures her of all symptoms. Here is a clip of her explaining what she went through: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fncJdVjy5U

Overall, I feel like diet/fasting is the icing on the cake of our Peyronie's treatment regimens; very promising.

skunkworks

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #63 on: September 05, 2018, 08:05:16 PM »

Yeah the idea with that is it is the ultimate elimination diet. Remove everything except beef, salt and water for a month, then slowly add things back in one at a time.

JS1991

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #64 on: September 06, 2018, 04:23:07 PM »

Does anyone know at what point autophagy sets in? Apparently it is after about 16 hours with it peaking shortly after and falling off after 2 days. Apparently it can also coincide with ketosis; one doesn't need to run through their fat stores for it to begin. I am also hearing, separately, that if one water fasts they should expect to see the autophagy occuring after 11 days depending on fat stores? I'm not sure which to believe.

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #65 on: September 06, 2018, 06:02:59 PM »

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skunkworks

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #66 on: September 06, 2018, 08:06:29 PM »

Does anyone know at what point autophagy sets in?

Research it. Get on pubmed, google etc and dig up the most reliable sources you can. It's an important question and putting some time into finding a good answer would be well worth your while.

@crooked_stick, the problem I have with that article is that they are selling something, that specific power/supplement thing. Have you checked the references they link to?

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #67 on: September 08, 2018, 12:27:00 PM »

JS and Skunkworks, I'm really glad you both made me look into carnivore.

I've been keto for a year and 3 months or so, maybe longer, but I notice my issues get MUCH better when I go lower carb. I have 4 eggs a day, cheese, and meat with some veggies such as broccoli (for that mystostatin inhibition and anti-cancer effect). However, I am now foregoing even veggies and really going carnivore. I'm really enjoying it and I feel amazing. Thanks so much for turning me on to this.

I am also doing more rigorous traction starting today and getting on a schedule. Although my symptoms are not problematic anymore, I'm curious just how far I can push this. I have a feeling I can get much more improvement.
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Gabriel

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2018, 06:41:43 AM »

Hey guys,

Just stumbled yesterday on an article which stated that food additives significantly increased glucose sensitivity, microbiota negative modifications, inflammatory diseases (metabolic syndrome, irritable bowel syndrome...), diabetes, Crohn's, and obesity.

I can't find the primary sources, but this comes from a very reliable French site (National institute of consuming) which bases its claims on studies published in Nature, etc (https://www.60millions-mag.com/2015/06/12/mefiez-vous-des-additifs-alimentaires-8003).

Sorry if this question had already been treated (I imagine it has), but for me it was quite a discovery... And now I realize how much additives I thought to be innocuous (sucralose, cellulose gum...) are absolutely everywhere, even for me who has a really good diet  :o... Damn
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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #69 on: September 10, 2018, 10:51:11 PM »

Neo, I'm glad it's working for you. I know you know this, but please be careful with traction. You seem to be in a pretty good place in terms of your Peyronie's and it would be sad to see you injure yourself.

Gabriel, Always try to consume all natural foods! Especially with Peyronie's disease. It goes hand in hand with the diet and fasting we're discussing.

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #70 on: September 29, 2018, 07:26:05 PM »

I did 4 days of water fasting. That is WATER fasting - no tea or coffee allowed. Drinking tea or coffee messes things up.

It stimulates something called autophagy, which is very good for you.

3 changes - Peyronies Disease scar became somewhat softer, lost water and fat mass (no muscle lost according to my BF% scale), and my beard grew out slower for a month (it returned to normal slowly).
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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #71 on: September 29, 2018, 07:33:49 PM »

Water fasting:
Day 1: No problem. Lots of time and more energy. Also easy on the wallet.
Day 2: More energy.
Day 3: Relaxed. Heart rate around 60. But weak. Definitely not a time you want to be running or lifting heavy objects. No problems.
Day 4: Starting to feel not so good. Bilateral flank pain as well - but nothing severe. I gave up and I started eating some boiled eggs.

I might push it again, but 4 days was tough for me. I think 2 to 3 days is good. With more practice, I will try to push it to a week. Overall, I am far more productive (no time wasted on eating, no sugar crashes, and lots of mental energy) and I have more money in my wallet.
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NeoV

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #72 on: October 12, 2018, 11:01:56 AM »

Great video by Thomas on autophagy and coffee or caffeine.

Conclusion: caffeine CAUSES autophagy even without fasting!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEuHu5zjQPk

Black coffee in a fasted state boosts autophagy. I am not that into autophagy compared to the mitochondrial effect of keto, but it is something worth getting into! Anyway, thomas' video is very well done.
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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #73 on: October 12, 2018, 04:58:42 PM »

Great video.  I wonder how long to wait after having coffee before breaking the overnight fast is ideal?
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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #74 on: October 12, 2018, 05:07:19 PM »

Great video thanks for linking! I do agree that coffee causes a boost to autophagy, but I do believe it also breaks the fast in a way. I follow Dr. Rhonda Patrick for my dieting needs (here is her IG: https://www.instagram.com/foundmyfitness/?hl=en she always gives great advice in her posts), and here is what she has to say on the subject: https://youtu.be/m6KClPkotxM?t=441 I linked to the coffee part but the whole clip is great if anyone is interested in watching, and after they go off topic they come back onto the topic of coffee at 10 minutes exactly, by the way. Does anyone have thoughts? I'm really trying to figure this all out as best I can. I'm thinking maybe drink a lot of coffee during my 8-9 hour feeding window to boost autophagy, then nothing but water during my intermittent fast (which I have yet to start by the way).

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #75 on: October 12, 2018, 08:10:47 PM »

Interesting, unadulterated coffee would definitely help get through the third day slump.

Gabriel

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #76 on: October 13, 2018, 10:05:58 AM »

Hey guys,

I know I'm going to be a stick in the mud here, but after a few months of tests, I'm pretty positive that drinking coffee increases my chance to feel little bursts of pain while flaccid throughout the day. I'm NOT claiming anything scientific nor even 100% sure here; I know caffeine has antioxydants effects, that PTX is derived from caffeine... I'm only saying this shoots of pain seem to happens like 2 times out of 3 when I drink coffee.

Anyone experienced similar symptoms?

Anyway, I now tend to avoid coffee as much as possible, as it instantly and drastically worsens my CPPS symptoms (late drops of urine, etc.).

BTW, I'm going on an apple monodiet for 3 days next week or the week after; I'll keep you up to date if anything cool happens to my small friend down there (not the objective, but who knows ?)!
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- 31 yo, very healthy lifestyle, Peyronies Disease with Erectile Dysfunction, pain, distal hourglassing & length loss since 09/01/17, still acute.
- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

skunkworks

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #77 on: October 13, 2018, 11:04:06 AM »

Here is the thing about coffee, short term it increases insulin resistance. Like close to immediately. So if you are still eating a normal carb heavy diet then in that regard coffee is a bad thing.

That's obviously not an issue on a fast, nor really an issue if you're eating carnivore or low carb.

Gabriel

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #78 on: October 13, 2018, 11:35:01 AM »

Very interesting skunkworks, thank you!!

So, if I drink coffee with ZERO sugar while fasting in the morning, I shouldn't notice any pain... I'm definitly going to try it, because even if it's bad for my CPPS, it does help when it comes to morning fasting workout!
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- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

JS1991

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #79 on: October 14, 2018, 04:50:01 PM »

If you're going to drink coffee I would go with black coffee.

Christopher1

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #80 on: October 14, 2018, 05:44:57 PM »

A true fast should be with water only.

No coffee or tea.
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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #81 on: October 14, 2018, 08:30:00 PM »

Yes but I'm not doing it for spiritual reasons, so if coffee can boost autophagy then it is potentially a good addition.

Gabriel

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #82 on: November 08, 2018, 04:14:26 PM »

Hey guys,

Found this while doing a research on the link between insulin resistance and Peyronie's : https://www.dupuytren-online.info/Forum_English/thread.php?true&board=4&thread=3156

It's old, long (just read the first page so far, lots of science) but absolutely fascinating; it looks a little like the equivalent of this very thread, but about Dupuytren's... And talks about caffeine too!!

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- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

skunkworks

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #83 on: November 08, 2018, 10:02:12 PM »

Cheers for that Gabriel I will have a read. Yeah the deeper I dig, the more clear it becomes that poor insulin/glucose control is at the heart of the matter.

Bubba dawg

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #84 on: November 25, 2018, 08:28:03 AM »

I stated this in another thread. If peyrones disease is diet related then why is it not more common? USA makes have terrible diets on average. Yet most dont get this disease. I am over 55 and have never heard anyone talk about this problem. None of my relatives. Most urologist dont treat it in my area. My Experienced Urologist could not pinpoint a cause. Just seems like it would be more common if it were related to diet. So if diet doesnt cause it, how could it cure it? Fasting may fix one thing and damage something else. So I would want more evidence of this being diet related. Not ruling this out because it seems to work for some. I wouldn't try it myself.
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skunkworks

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #85 on: November 25, 2018, 09:00:48 AM »

Dude. Predisposition.

Like how some people can smoke cigarettes their whole life and never get lung cancer, but for others it does not end so well. The predisposition is the thing.

Bubba dawg

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #86 on: November 25, 2018, 09:51:43 AM »

There is a lot more health problems from smoke than there is peyrones from diet. Peyrones is rare. Lung cancer from smoking is not rare
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Werther

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #87 on: November 25, 2018, 12:16:11 PM »

I have to agree with Bubba dawg on this.

I know that I sound like f~@
Try whatever you want with regards to this field but don't claim it as science since it is not.
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JS1991

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #88 on: November 25, 2018, 05:24:48 PM »

I'm personally more a believer that keto/fasting can help Peyronie's, than that it is the cause of it. This is mainly due to inflammation reduction in keto and autophagy in fasting. Perhaps it can exacerbate developing Peyronie's, but I personally have never claimed it to be the cause.

skunkworks

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #89 on: November 25, 2018, 07:10:05 PM »

We may be talking about different definitions. I am not saying diet is THE CAUSE of Peyronie's, but that for some people an inflammatory diet can possibly create the conditions for Peyronie's to form when it might not have otherwise. And that's just from the inflammation perspective.

We've been talking about the science of it a lot! And Gabriel also linked to a thread on another forum which contained some very interesting studies. If you want actual studies on diet and Peyronie's specifically you're going to be waiting a long time. It's only recently that serious work has been done on dietary intervention for diabetes, and it's one of the biggest killers in the world, probably the biggest if you included all the conditions diabetes exacerbates if you have a predisposition to them.

And as predispositions to conditions are a factor in almost every single medical condition other than congenital conditions and straight up trauma, I hardly think we need to prove that people have a predisposition to Peyronie's.

Evidence suggests very strongly that Peyronie's an autoimmune component, Nachtsheim DA, Rearden A. Peyronie’s disease is associated with an HLA class II antigen, HLA-DQ5, implying an autoimmune etiology. The Journal of urology. 1996;156(4):1330–1334. [PubMed].

There is a small but growing body of research specifically on dietary intervention in autoimmune disease. Case studies and lab work

When in the active stage, Peyronie's is an inflammatory disease. There is a large body of research on diet and inflammation.

Peyronie's has a fibrotic component, autophagy is a scientifically proven method of treating fibrosis.

Autophagy regulates TGF-β expression, and we know TGF-β expression plays a big part in Peyronie's. That's how Pentox works.

skunkworks

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #90 on: November 25, 2018, 07:18:29 PM »

Also, to bubba's original point that it is too rare a condition for diet to be involved (which honestly makes very little sense in the first place) the condition may not be as rare as you think.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0150157


There was also a study done on cadavers which showed a far higher incidence of penile lesions than anyone would have thought, around 22%. I will find the study.

Edit. Can't find the actual paper (it was very old) but it is referenced here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4442995/

The prevalence of Peyronies Disease is currently estimated at 3–7.1%, with autopsy studies identifying subclinical disease in up to 22% of men [2–13]. Increasing rates have been reported with some comorbidities, including diabetes mellitus (DM, 8.1%), after prostatectomy (15.9%), and combined Erectile Dysfunction/DM (20.3%) [3,11,12]. Although the incidence of Peyronies Disease is greatest in men aged 40–60 years, cases have been reported in other age groups, including teenagers [14].

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3221554/

The prevalence of Peyronies Disease is still under debate. Some studies have shown prevalence rates ranging from 1% to 4%2; autopsy studies have even gone so far as to state that 22% of men have some lesions on the penile tunica albuginea.3

NeoV

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #91 on: November 26, 2018, 12:15:24 AM »

Bubba, glucose affects people in different ways depending on your genes. Men with Peyronie's have overactive Wnt genes, which are activated by glucose.

Insulin directly increases TGF-beta and tgf-beta receptors on cells. Insulin also lowers NO in the body, leading to vascular damage and fibrosis.

I have written a long write up with many studies but am not quite ready to post it yet.

Your question is the same as asking why insulin and glucose causes Alzheimer's only in some people, while other's get fat. Alzheimers is clearly diabetes type 3, but it depends again on how their body reacts to glucose toxicity (the epidemic of our times).

I am not suggesting that Peyronie's cannot happen even with the lowest insulin diet ever. I am sure it can, but that doesn't really matter to me. Just because some people don't get cancer but smoke all their lives doesn't mean we should smoke.

I have written up a long post with links to studies on google documents and will post it once it's done. That will allow us to have all the studies available so at least it makes more sense.
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Bubba dawg

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #92 on: November 26, 2018, 07:48:28 AM »

I dont have diabetes.  I do not eat much sugar , if any, daily. I drink water for lunch. Couple of lite beers for supper. Black no sugar coffee for breakfast. I have been following this regimen for decades.  I have always thought of sugar as poison to the body. Still got peyrones.  But anyway we are all adults free to try what we want too.
You really can't compare smoking to peyrones. A VERY high % of those that smoke get lung cancer. I know several smokers  that have lung cancer. Smoking studies have directly pinpointed it to be the cause of many lung cancers. The evidence is overwhelming.
The general consensus is that peyrones is caused by some type of trauma to the penis. Not by what you eat or drink.
Rare that smokers dont have any health problems directly related to smoking.
I also think that men, who could not have sex , would seek medical attention. I sure did. Leading me to believe that serious peyrones is rare.
The internet can be dangerous. I can put in a question a certain way to prove a point. I can ask a question another way to disprove it. We are all now internet doctors lol Never mind the people who spend 12 years in school and internships.  Fast away!
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JS1991

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #93 on: November 26, 2018, 04:11:30 PM »

Peyronie's is more common than you think... estimates range between 5-15% of the male population. In terms of smoking and predisposition, the current oldest man in the world smoked his entire life (still smokes) and is over 120 years old. He is clearly not predisposed to lung cancer. Most people will get it if they smoke chronically, yes, but someone predisposed might get it in their 30s/40s. I agree that Peyronie's is caused by penile trauma; that is how mine began. But that doesn't mean some people aren't naturally more likely to get it, and the route that it seems to take in those individuals manifests itself as a sort of diabetes of the penis. I actually see these as the two main routes to acquiring Peyronie's. Regardless, autophagy is powerful and even if Peyronie's was induced by penile trauma, it should help. I understand your mentality of "lol, what are we all internet doctors now?" so if this is not for you, that's fine. It's not so much being an internet doctor as it is using common sense, your brain, and anecdotal evidence to investigate alternative routes to healing. Many countries have different protocols for different diseases for example; the internet gets the benefit of all.

Bubba dawg

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #94 on: November 27, 2018, 06:29:40 AM »

How can you narrow down what foods and drinks contribute to peyronie's? Everybody is effected differently by everything consumed. Everybody has a different genetic makeup. So you cut out everything for a period of time? How long? How often? Just seems so unscientific to me. I would rather go through 5 minutes of injections than starve myself for days. I do think diuretics make peyronie's worse. Spicey foods seem to make it worse. I agree with altering your diet could help.
 One fact is smoking narrows arteries in your body. Narrowed arteries constrict blood flow. Constricted blood flow hurts your erection. Many smokers are impotent. Not all but many. Many have weak erections. 
The internet has helped me treat myself for certain illnesses. Sometimes it is good to let the doctor diagnose and heal you. Make them explain everything and why they do what they do. They are not infallible
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NeoV

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Re: Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet
« Reply #95 on: November 27, 2018, 07:25:35 PM »

It is not at all the consensus that injury or trauma is the cause of Peyronie’s. If anything it’s a trigger.

Many of us got the disease without an injury. If you read the research you’ll see that the actual consensus doesn’t exist, but a mitochondrial (metabolic) and genetic (wnt2) appear to be at the root of it. High tgf-beta is a result of these problems. It is a fact that insulin raises tgf-beta and that the plaques of Peyronie’s and Dupuytren’s show glucose dysregulation and mitochondrial dysfunction. You don’t need diabetes to have damage or fibrosis from hyperinsulinemia. It’s not diabetes but before that, that we are worried about.

While it’s a bit crazy to say “glucose causes Peyronie’s,” (maybe it’s not) we have a pretty good reason to avoid it. The same is true for something as simple as vascular health.

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