No plague on Ultrasound or MRI?

[JayGould]

Hi,

According to two different Urologists, I have no plagues showing up either on an ultrasound or an MRI. They said everything looks "perfect". One of them (a well known Peyronie's Doc) also felt the penis for any plague, but couldn't feel any. I still have a 40 degree curvature to the left.

Could it be something other than Peyronie's? Or will the plague show up later? One of my Uro's said that may happen. This all started 4 months ago.

[james1947]

What is the treatment you the doctors proposed to you?
Are you doing any treatment?

James

[JayGould]

I'm doing the regular Peyronie's treatment (Pentox, Cialis, L-Arginine). Can't use either traction or VED because of pain unfortunately.

[PeetyPeet]

A urologist in the UK prescribed you pentox? That's virtually unheard of these days.

Neither the ultrasound or the MRI are perfect tests, and both require the knowledge, experience and skill of the radiologist inspecting the scans. I understand that in both instances, a calcified plaque will show up more than pre-calcified fibrosis.

If you are still experiencing pain this could suggest that you are still in the acute phase and a plaque has yet to form.

Peety

[JayGould]

No, I went to see Dr Levine in Chicago.

Don't have any pain actually, aside from when touching it. But erections are fine, pain wise.

[popopo]

It probably doesn't mean much because they didnt find anything with me either. I think it's easier to see when there is one big plaque causimg th bend on its own. In my case it's more like minor fibrosis all over and probably not all calcified yet either. Anyway, it probably still is peyronie's, but the actual scar tissue might not be so much. Still.. I know for a fact you don't have to see it on a doppler to be really really impaired by it.

[drew67]

JayGould and popopo, have either of you ever taken medication that affects testosterone or sex steroids?  

[skunkworks]

Just curious, do you have a curve or is it a bend? If the latter, where is the bend located?

[popopo]

Hey Drew, yes I have but I developed symptoms a lot earlier before I ever touched testosterone and my levels where always low-average to begin with (about 450 ng/dl max in the early morning). I never really felt very different on or off though except for physical strenght and muscle growth. Libido and erection quality has always been pretty good, but I damaged myself doing jelqing VED and orher stuff you should never try unless you're really really carefull and even then I'm not so sure. Anyway, when I injured myself I was too late. The months after I've had discoloration, sharp stinging pain, progressively worse hourglassing and I still have to be very carefull not to injure myself again. The pain and simultaneous change of shape at the same locations the pain was located and the "hardening" of the tissue and eventually size loss tells me it's penile fibrosis. I have been diagnosed kind of by a doctor that could feel some scar tissue, then about 2 years and a lot of more pain and worsening of my symptoms suddenly another doctor tells me there's nothing physically wrong at all. I mean what the hell? First they locate it easily and many pains, size loss and worsening later it cannot be found. Anyway, the moral of the story is that doctors make mistakes too and maybe there is another reason why they can't see it but I don't know. All I know is that you can defenitely habe something wrong with your penis even when the ultrasound can't find it.

[lessor]

the moral of the story is that doctors make mistakes too and maybe there is another reason why they can't see it but I don't know. All I know is that you can defenitely habe something wrong with your penis even when the ultrasound can't find it.

Yes it is totally true, I am living proof of it

[PeetyPeet]

I think it's easier to see when there is one big plaque causimg th bend on its own.

Yes, I think that's a very good point. On an ultrasound fibrosis / plaque shows up as a white mass and as a black mass on an MRI scan. I believe a localised mass of plaque would be much easier to detect than diffused fibrosis.  

[popopo]

How do you cope Lessor? Should I visit urologist after urologist until they find something? Did you find a good urologist who could at least properly diagnose you? I'm paranoid about never finding a cure for peyronie's, but I'm even more worried that I won't even get help even when it's available because I'm never properly diagnosed and therefore I'm "stuck" with a Body Dysmorphia diagnosis which doesn'tt help me at all since I cannot "learn" to fix something in my head that isn't broken while the thing that's actually broken won't be fixed.  

[JayGould]

Just curious, do you have a curve or is it a bend? If the latter, where is the bend located?

It's a bend. Located about one inch from the base. Curvature is now about 50 degrees. Has gotten worse from VED.

Also, never used testosterone or steroids. My latest testosterone test was 900 ng/dl, which is in the upper range.

[lessor]

popopo many many doctors when they see you are young they will lie you telling its only psychollogical, it doesnt matter if you have really injured yourself, and even if a crane crushes your penis they will tell you that it is psychological, many will not even look at the penis, the urologists are so pathetic sometimes ...
I would look for a doctor who takes you seriously, and in which you confess, you should escape of those who say that it is in your head, these will only make you angry

[JayGould]

[Full quote removed- please use reply instead of quote....  forum rules. PM me if you don't understand - lwillisjr]

No Doctor will take you seriously though. I have visited with some of the greatest "experts" in the world and none have even looked at my penis, even though I asked them to. I still have no idea what is wrong.

[popopo]

Really? How so JayGould? Aren't they supposed to look at your penis? In my case they did but nobody could give me a definite answer. The first time the doctor felt some scar tissue, but saw nothing on the doppler, the second same story but he didnt do a doppler. He said something like "yes it's a little bit of scar tissue and I could diagnose you with it but it's pr9bably not gonna get worse because it aint classic peyronies". (Propably because I injured myself jelqing and pumping instead o being genetically predisposed). And finally the last doctor I saw didnt see a thing wronf even with doppler. He just adviced me to focus on other things because women care mkre about haveinf a good job etc. Etc. And I really didnt need that bs. The weird  thing is that these visits where all different doctors and it was over a timespan of about 3 years and things have changed a lot physically, but the first two times (about 2/3 maybe 4 years ago) they felt scar tissue and now all of a sudden they can't even see minor scarring. I guess maybe some docs looked better than other and/or the last one didn't see how a diagnosis would help since there isn't much to do about it.

[JayGould]

popopo - Yes, but have they told you where exactly in the penis your damage is? Sure, Doctors have also told me that "I can see that there is a tear here, or some scar here, and that your penis is bent"...But none were able to say: "Its in the tunica, or its in the corpus cavernosa"... One of them told me to use a traction or VED. Turns out I couldn't use them as they caused pain. Another Doctor told me I probably had a fracture (which would explain why I couldn't use those tools without causing further damage). Another Doc told me I didn't have a fracture. So which is it?

I have met with 4 different Doctors and I don't know anything more than I did before I saw either one of them.

[james1947]

Unfortunately the doctors knowledge is much less that a mechanic understanding in your car

James

[popopo]

True, I just really really hope they will "get" peyronies very soon so we actually expect some help from urologists. It bladder, prostate and testicular function all have a priority above that of peyronies. All urologist learn about our disease, but they don't learn how to properly treat it. Most doctors just learn that it can happen and could possibly cause a bent that makes penetration impossible, if this is the case they do surgery to correct the curve. That's it, period. The deeper issue and understanding of the disease isn't a big priority to most.

[lessor]

I hope that the urologist get peyronie or ED and they really see what it feels like when you have it and stop saying stupid things, as it is psychological, the important thing is love, damn sons of bi+

[peter123]

I hope that the urologist get peyronie or Erectile Dysfunction and they really see what it feels like when you have it and stop saying stupid things, as it is psychological, the important thing is love, damn sons of bi+

I hope they get brain cancer tbh  

[peter123]

Hi,

According to two different Urologists, I have no plagues showing up either on an ultrasound or an MRI. They said everything looks "perfect". One of them (a well known Peyronie's Doc) also felt the penis for any plague, but couldn't feel any. I still have a 40 degree curvature to the left.

Could it be something other than Peyronie's? Or will the plague show up later? One of my Uro's said that may happen. This all started 4 months ago.

I just don't get it. I just read a paper that said only around 80 percent of palpable plaques were detectable on mri and only 67 percent on ultra sound. How is it possible to feel something with your hand and not see and tissue changes with a device that costs millions of euroes and its purpose is to show such stuff?  

[peter123]

A urologist in the UK prescribed you pentox? That's virtually unheard of these days.

Neither the ultrasound or the MRI are perfect tests, and both require the knowledge, experience and skill of the radiologist inspecting the scans. I understand that in both instances, a calcified plaque will show up more than pre-calcified fibrosis.

If you are still experiencing pain this could suggest that you are still in the acute phase and a plaque has yet to form.

Peety

But why would there be a curvature if no plaque has formed to restrict the tunica? Isn't that what peyronie's is about? Does the inflammation itself cause the curvature, that's seems unlikely  

[TonySa]

Jay, I hear good things about Dr Levine.  I'd recommend taking his opinion and advice and not sweating the other doc disagreeing w what he's told you.  Finding and working w a good Peyronie's specialist is VN the most important action you can take.