Dangers of traction

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krazylord

Noose = possibility of cutting off blood flow.

skunkworks

Not if you use the device properly. So no, noose does not = cut off blood supply. You do realise nearly every single published traction study used a noose style device right? And by some miracle all participants managed to use the device without hurting themselves.


@sternfan, damn I think I would chicken out before getting to 3100 grams. Glad it is working out for you but I am of the very strong opinion that everyone else reading this should be sticking to under 1700 max.

This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

krazylord

I will put it this way: noose = possible risk of cutting off blood supply. This is what Dr. Kuehhas himself told me.

Also, I am a living example of this. A noose f'^+'ed up my penis. That is why I have Peyronie's and hourglass. This was also verified by Dr. Tom Lue and Dr. Kuehhas in their diagnosis. And, no, he should NOT feel pain where the noose is. If he does, that is not a good sign. In my case, my problem was not taking the device out in 3 hours long sessions, repeteadly. And I never felt pain. Also, studies are just that, studies.  

So, yes you are right it doesn't necessarily mean it does cut off, but there is a risk. And I fell into it.

LWillisjr

Any device used improperly or too aggressively can cause damage or issues. There are several types of traction devices and proper ways to use them.
Developed peyronies 2007 - 70 degree dorsal curve
Traction/MEDs/Injections/Surgery 2008 16 years Peyronies free now
My History

krazylord

There are devices with more risk than others. And tose with noose have more risk, due to cutting off blood flow.

Note sure why you guys try to deny what I am saying. Again, this is something that Dr. Kuehhas said. He does NOT recommend traction with noose devices because of this reason.

skunkworks

Multiple studies showing good results with noose devices are worth more than one doctor's opinion. Also there are many on this forum who have used noose devices for years without incident, by following the guidelines.

I am saying the below is wrong, and I am correct in saying that.

Quote from: krazylord on February 23, 2017, 12:51:22 PMNoose = cut off blood flow.

Those who follow the guidelines don't hurt themselves. That is also the end of this discussion, as it is hijacking sternfan's thread.
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

krazylord

No, you are wrong. I followed the guidelines and I hurt myself. And I trust more Dr. Kuehhas than you, skunkworks, with all due respect.

I know many guys that followed the guidelines, as you say, for traction and VED and still hurt themselves. So it is wrong for you to say that, VERY wrong.

Hopefully, OldMan can comment here and back this up, since there is *always* some risk, even if you do it very carefully. Saying otherwise is untruthful and dangerous.

I am happy to continue this in other thread or even ask Dr. Kuehhas to comment to the forum and comment himself.

Old Man

krazylord:

Please clean out your inbox as it is full and you cannot receive any PMs. Have tried to send one to you just a few minutes ago with no success. A note says your inbox is full and cannot receive PMs.

Old man
Age 92. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after
stage four radical prostatectomy in 1995, Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents.
Three more stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries too.

Arabia

Maybe we can take this debate with its existing posts elsewhere (can the mods do this?) in order that  the thread is not hijacked.

james1947

I will chime in with my experience
Tried to use the Penimaster Pro with no success. Didn't succeed to make the glans not sliding out.
Bought the simple traction device that have a silicon cup that the glans should be inserted in, a rubber band and a strip to put on the leg.
Started using it, never more than 1/2 hour before break and I was thinking that I am starting to see results. I see that the glans become white, like bloodless after 1/2 hour.
After some 3 weeks, I felt some pain during the session, removed the cup and see the skin separated from my glans in a few places.
Stopped using the device of course.
I suppose my case not the same as mentioned by krazylord.
By the way, never had any damage from the VED, but always used it very carefully

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

skunkworks

Quote from: krazylord on February 25, 2017, 06:03:53 PM
No, you are wrong. I followed the guidelines and I hurt myself.

No you didn't. You did not follow the guidelines.

Quote from: krazylord on February 24, 2017, 01:18:17 AMIn my case, my problem was not taking the device out in 3 hours long sessions, repeteadly. And I never felt pain.

Quote from: krazylord on February 25, 2017, 06:03:53 PMAnd I trust more Dr. Kuehhas than you, skunkworks, with all due respect.

It's not about trusting me, it is about trusting the published studies. You seem confused about that.

Show me someone who has hurt themselves with traction while following the guidelines from published studies. I'll bet that person didn't measure the traction on his device and just trusted the manufacturer's manual.

I will concede that there is a very small risk of injury even if one is following the guidelines to a T, but it is a very small risk and I have never encountered someone who has given themselves a long lasting injury while following the guidelines. Also, and this is far more important than any personal anecdotes by anyone (even doctors), in the various studies which involved hundreds of men using traction, there were just three adverse events, one of temporary numbness which resolved, and two cases of bruising which also resolved. No instances of injury that did not resolve quickly, across all those hundreds of men using traction.

Also your initial statement was:

Quote from: krazylord on February 23, 2017, 12:51:22 PM
Noose = cut off blood flow. Just saying...be careful.

Which is wrong.
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

krazylord

Hi OldMan,

I already deleted some messages. Sorry about that :)

krazylord

Quote from: skunkworks on February 25, 2017, 08:05:15 PM
Show me someone who has hurt themselves with traction while following the guidelines from published studies.

You will not see them, because they will not publish it. You believe in studies like a religion. I can prove to you, if the admins allow me to, to post all my medical records where Dr. Kuehhas, Dr. Lue and Dr. Goldstein agreed that the penis extender I used was the cause of my shaft fibrosis. You can keep talking about studies, but I am a real person with a real problem due to an extender, with the best doctors in the world giving the same diagnosis. You can keep talking about studies all you want.

I have tried stem cells, I have tried shockwaves, I have tried VED, I have tried traction. I am probably one of the more knowledgeable guys here when it comes to personal experience with treatments. You keep talking about studies. I talk by my personal experience and from my treatments from the best doctors.

Quote from: james1947 on February 25, 2017, 07:31:25 PM
I see that the glans become white, like bloodless after 1/2 hour.

Exactly. This can happen. You need to be vigilant at all times when using these devices. That's all. They are risky.

Quote from: james1947 on February 25, 2017, 07:31:25 PM
never had any damage from the VED, but always used it very carefully

Exactly. And the reason you need to be careful is simple: there is a risk, always, every single time. These are somewhat invasive treatments, and one needs to be careful. I use VED always following the guidelines, and still hurt myself several times. Very minor. I know several guys here in the forum that went through the same experience. They followed OldMan protocol, exactly as it is outlined, they never experienced pain during sessions, and still sometimes they got issues.

So, to sum up, yes, there is always a risk. Therefor,e one needs to be extra careful, even if one is following guidelines. Nobody can guarantee that you will not hurt yourself even if you follow any guidelines, or no matter how many studies are published.

My point is: do what you have to do. Do your treatment. Be committed. Be patience. Stay positive. Stay focused. But, always, ALWAYS, be mindful of what you are doing and EXTREMELY careful.

Pfract

I don't think that there is any problem with posting your medical records here? just take a photo, post it on a link somewhere, an image host like IMGUR or others, link it here and we will see it. And i am also a Dr. Goldstein's past patient, so i know for a fact that he sends you a detailed email after your consultation with him with your symptoms and diagnosis. Go for it...

Greg07

Can I ask you a question?

If a noose could hurt (cut off blood flow or so) why not everybody uses strap? In fact, based on my research it looks like noose is more popular and preferred type of fixation compared to strap - is this correct? And if noose is better what about double noose offered by quick extender?

skunkworks

The noose when used properly does not cut off blood flow.  
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]