CoQ10 harmfull?

[marator]

I am not very scientifically literate. But this here confuses me (my logic is probably wrong, please correct me):

"Peyronie's disease occurs due to the activation of nuclear factor kappa-B, that induces the production of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS), with an increase of nitric oxide, leading to increased production of peroxynitrite anion. All these processes result in the proliferation of fibroblasts and myo-fibroblasts and excessive production of collagen between the layers of the tunica albuginea (penile plaque)."

"Activated microglia by neuronal injury or inflammatory stimulation overproduce nitric oxide (NO) by inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) and reactive oxygen species (ROS) such as superoxide anion, resulting in neurodegenerative diseases. The toxic peroxynitrite (ONOO-), the reaction product of NO and superoxide anion further contributes to oxidative neurotoxicity"


Wont CoQ10 increase eNOS which then further increase nitric oxide and further increase peroxynitrite anion, making supplements like q10 harmful?

[marator]

Okey it seems like eNOS works differently.
But then I found other documentation that seem to me really good argument to NOT TAKE CoQ10, because you want iNOS and you dont want CoQ10 to downregulate iNOS!?! wtf



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21684136

Our results showed that CoQ10 attenuated the oxLDL-induced generation of reactive oxygen species and improved the antioxidant capacity. CoQ10 also attenuated the oxLDL-mediated down-regulation of endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS) and up-regulation of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS). In addition, CoQ10 suppressed oxLDL-activated NF-κB and downstream inflammatory mediators, including expression of adhesion molecules, release of proinflammatory cytokines and the adherence of monocytic THP-1 cells.



Treatment with a combination of ginger, L-citrulline, muira puama and Paullinia cupana can reverse the progression of corporal smooth muscle loss, ... - PubMed - NCBI

"a decline in the non-treated rat's erectile function is evident by 10-12 months of age and is accompanied by a decrease in the corporal smooth muscle content determined by desmin expression and an increase in corporal fibrosis. The daily treatment for two months with COMP-4 reverses this process by reducing systemic oxidative stress and increasing desmin and iNOS expression, similar to that seen with tadalafil or the combination of COMP-4 plus tadalafil.



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4149188/

Further studies using an animal model showed activation of nuclear factor kappa-β, which regulates the expression of several genes and encoded adhesion molecules, after TGF-β injection and injury to the rat penis. NOS isoforms, particularly iNOS, are reported to modulate the onset and progression of fibroblast or wound healing. Inhibition of iNOS resulted in increased deposition of collagen around the TGF-β1-induced lesions, suggesting that iNOS suppresses collagen production in Peyronies Disease. Bivalacqua et al. [35] reported that iNOS was increased in Peyronies Disease probably due to inflammation. iNOS is the key control element for peroxynitrite formation, arginase II expression, and eNOS down-regulation in the induction of a Peyronie's-like condition in the rat.

This is accompanied by the induction of the inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS), which acts as an endogenous antifibrotic mechanism in response to the profibrotic processes [6]

These findings can be explained by the observation that iNOS is expressed in human Peyronies Disease plaques and inhibition of iNOS leads to a significant exacerbation of tissue fibrosis.

[NeoV]

This is all wrong, CoQ10 is helpful and not harmful.

The studies you posted suggest that CoQ10 and other things increase iNOS therefore reducing the collagen ratio in the penis and reducing inflammation.

Re-read what you posted,

"CoQ10 also attenuated the oxLDL-mediated down-regulation of endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS) and up-regulation of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS)."

The daily treatment for two months with COMP-4 reverses this process by reducing systemic oxidative stress and increasing desmin and iNOS expression,

Inhibition of iNOS resulted in increased deposition of collagen around the TGF-β1-induced lesions, suggesting that iNOS suppresses collagen production in Peyronies Disease."

[marator]

Hmmm...

"CoQ10 also attenuated the oxLDL-mediated down-regulation of endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS) and up-regulation of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS)."

It attenuates the oxLDL mediated down-regulation, to me that means CoQ10 increase eNOS and decrease iNOS. You want the opposite...  

[NeoV]

Oh man.. I remember this confused the hell out of me a few years ago, and now It's back. Sorry for the mistake on my part...

You want NOS production and eNOS, but iNOS is associated with aging and inflammation. I wish I knew exactly how this all worked and I admit I'm a bit dumbfounded now after reading it all.

Clearly iNOS is associated with disease, but clearly nitric oxide from things like citrulline ward off fibrosis. Sadly I can't figure out how this works yet. Even so, CoQ10 seems to be very good for penile tissue, so don't worry about it. If it wasn't, then arginine and citrulline and even PDE3 inhibitors would no longer be good either.

I have no idea why some literature states that reducing iNOS helps penile tissue while others say the opposite. Perhaps it refers to reduction of iNOS in those plaques. Thanks for bringing this up, I'm looking for an answer. For now, I wouldn't doubt the supplements too much.

[marator]

Yeah, its all very confusing.
But I think there might be a little too much ill adviced recommendations for acute stage peyronies on this forum. I personally cant find many studies done in acute phase...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3221554/
"Note that no single oral medication should be recommended as a treatment option for patients in the acute phase of Peyronies Disease. Some reports show promising data; however, randomized, placebo-controlled studies showing a clear statistically significant benefit are still missing."

[NeoV]

There will never be a "single" drug or supplement for Peyronie's. Treating it in the acute phase is critical. Treating peyronie's is much like treating your health in general, there is no one supplement for good health. For penile health, a combination of things will help, and have been shown to help without a doubt. Whether CoQ10 is the best one out there is up for debate, something as simple as vitamin D may be better than CoQ10 in most individuals.