Is Masturbation/Sex good or bad for Peyronie's improvement

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

deep777

This is for earlier progressions of the disease where sex is still possible and there is not much, if any, pain.  
From what I've read, the general consensus seems to be that erections are good for the disease, possibly getting blood flow in the area is what you want. Is this true?
To take it one step further, is masturbation also a positive for the disease, in terms of getting blood flow to the penis and kind of reminding the body/penis it's purpose?  Or is it more of a negative, maybe in terms of damaging existing placques or creating new ones.
I'm curious to hear takes on this.

Hope I posted in the right forum,

NeoV

This is the "use it or lose it," vs "let it heal" argument.

Both are true and valid points in their own right, and depend on the man and his body and mind. Usually "use it or lose it," is the best advice for older guys, while "let it heal," is better advice for the obsessive young Peyronie's sufferer, but these are generalizations. Until recently I have always argued for "let it heal," simply because this is the hardest thing for most men to do, and is almost always the thing he is not doing. I know I was erection checking every day constantly when I was in the active phase, and that often lead to masturbation and more deformity. Most new men here watch porn, check their penises too much, and surely have inflammation which desperately needs to go.

Studies generally say that inflammation in Peyronie's can stay in the layers of the penis for a long time, even months, as small hematomas which later lead to scarring. Even Lue has recommended young men leave their penises alone while they take pentox for example, yet I am sure he has told men to use their penises as well. Abstinence reduces inflammation, yet quality erections remodel and bring oxygen to the penis. Both are important but timing and consideration is key. Like with elbow tendonitis, you first want to rest to get the inflammation out, then start to use it again to rebuild it within safe limits.

However, instead of following just one of these rules, I recommend focusing on attaining quality sexual practices. Masturbating twice in a row is not an example of quality sexual practices, and neither is every day most likely. Each man will differ on how often he can have sex or masturbate before he loses erection quality and his penis becomes damaged or inflammed. You want to use your penis so long as you have the hardest erections you can and do not have bending or pain after ejaculation. Perhaps for some guys the pain simply will not go away regardless, and this is something to take into consideration.

Personally, I had to take a week or more off for many times, and slowly I became able to have sex or masturbate more often without the negative side effects. Now I can have sex or masturbate much more often, and I am probably more towards the end of the spectrum of "use it or lose it," where I am trying to produce the best erections more often now, even multiple days in a row, but even just a little too much sexual activity could throw me back into inflammation.

My first recommendation is let it heal, followed by have quality erections, even if it means only once a week and without watching porn. Pde5 inhibitors and nitric oxide boosting supplements such as citrulline may change how often you can have quality erections, so that is a factor as well. Some men may have to quit watching porn entirely (I recommend it), while others may be able to use it occasionally similar to using a drug to produce quality erections. Porn is a lot like a powerful stimulant is to weight lifting. Very useful, but downregulated very fast by the body and quickly becomes counterproductive.

Steveo

I personally disagree with the "let it heal" hypothesis because by doing that you're "letting it heal" in a flaccid (small) state.  Any healing that takes place in that state will "heal" the injured part of the penis in that smaller state which will then resist expansion (erection).

I'm not a doctor and my sample size is me alone, but I've found that any and all manipulation of the penis is good, as long as it's done "with love" (I'm serious).  By "with love" I mean done in a gentle-to-medium way, not being fearful or angry about what is happening to the penis.  It doesn't mean barely touching the penis or handling it roughly, it means handling it with confidence and care.

The first injury to my penis that I allowed to "just heal" has taken about 2 years of therapy to begin to correct.  The second (worse) injury, which I put in traction and VED within a week afterward, only took about 2-3 months to nearly completely heal.

So for me at least, manipulation of the penis (pumping, pulling, stretching, sex, masturbation, etc) done "with love" has been the key to healing.

NeoV

Definitely true Steveo, you need to use it, the question is how often and at what cost.

I guess I forgot to add, my improvements have come from periods of abstinence with daily traction, not complete avoidance of touching my penis.

nowhereman

I think a simple rule should be, if it hurts in the slightest. Don't do it. That may seem obvious but......
As well, the vast majority of people are getting erections a substantial amount of the night when they sleep. So that is the time that the oxygenation, remodeling can occur. I see no reason to force erections for that reason alone.

Agree on the porn Neo, it is an extremely powerful drug. I know of no other stimulant (and I've done most) that can give you erectile dysfunction, take away morning wood, and give you insomnia, weeks or months after you have last taken the drug.
Anyone that thinks that's a joke, it's not. I cured myself totally. The reason was, my dick at the time was so injured I was terrified of getting erections for at least a year, as it hurt like Fvck, didn't masturbate for 6 months at a time. So therefor I had to put any sexual thought out of my mind immediately. 100% cured after that, first time getting hard morning wood in a good decade ............And then: once things stopped hurting as much, I started back into the porn as my dick was still injured, so I wasn't going to have sex any time soon. It took a while but.....bang, ED.....morning wood gone....insomnia.
I underestimated how long it would take to cure myself a second time. Needless to say, won't be doing that again.


Steveo

I think that depends on what you mean by "hurts in the slightest."  If you mean a sharp pain, I'd agree.  But if you mean an uncomfortable pulling/stretching sensation, I'd disagree.  At least for me.

Say you want to limber up so you can touch your toes.  You've got to feel some stretching or you're simply not going to stretch the muscles.  There's got to be some discomfort or the body won't change.

I'd suggest that the reason nocturnal erections aren't enough without VED "encouragement" is because they just extend the penis to its current erect potential -- whatever that might be -- and stop there.  Nocturnal erections for me aren't "raging hard," they're just sort of standard ho-hum erections.  YMMV ;)

To use the same analogy as above, it would be like bending toward your toes and just stopping at your current natural stopping point.  The body wouldn't be forced to change so it wouldn't change.  At least not in any time frame that most folks are going to accept.

Of course I've never been in (and hope to never be in) a situation where my penis was so mangled that I couldn't touch it for 6 months.  I would suggest in that case it would have to be left alone not because leaving it alone is a good thing but because apparently any sort of touching it would lead to further damage.  In that case I guess you'd have no choice.

AlecT

Seems like let it heal and try to have erections each day is helpful. Masturbate without rough motions and try to stick to actions that are similar to sex you would have with a partner- preferably softer gentler sex. Easier said than done i think when your younger, and i have often found that - just one more masturbation ends up happening. Stress of the situation can lead to us continuing the same path. It can be so self destructive and this factor seems to take a lot of discipline, more i think for those addicted to porn or masturbating moreover and that are getting some release which is somewhat beneficial for reducing the stress. I have after failing alot of times thrown myself into language and other hobbies to try and distract. Obviously this is hard to do too if you plan on getting erections daily though it seems like if your healthy enough and there isn't enough damage that the erections come back by themselves in the morning (again only my experience and corroborating some of what i have read).

Ease off it you must masturbate if it hurts and remember to warmup, even with a heat pack applied through a towel / tea towel prior to help the penis expand a little (like warmth does with all tissues). Lubricate and not with friction causing creams. I have found some Vit E creams can cause burning if you are too quick with your movements. Be kind. Look after the little/ big/ injured fellow.  

james1947

I am for the "use it or lose it" opinion.
But everyone should decide himself as no one else knows your body/problems better than you

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

skunkworks

Use it or lose it doesn't quite fit the situation accurately.

Frequent erections are 100% necessary for penis health and healing. Sex and masturbation are not, and yes for a Peyronie's sufferer, indulging increases risk of further injury.

But the latter (sex etc) tends to be how the former (frequent erections) happen in a lot of cases, especially if you're not getting good nocturnal erections.

So that's the little puzzle you have to figure out for yourself.
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

melting

Very light pumping can help to flush in blood. Any rigourous intervention that can create an injury can obviously lead to more bad tissue/peyronies.
Daily Transdermals and Traction/VED solved my Peyronies Disease https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,12587.0.html (DMSO+X)

Steveo

Quote from: skunkworks on March 18, 2017, 07:58:01 AM
Use it or lose it doesn't quite fit the situation accurately.

Frequent erections are 100% necessary for penis health and healing. Sex and masturbation are not, and yes for a Peyronie's sufferer, indulging increases risk of further injury.
I'm going to disagree with that.  Everything I've read indicates that "use it or lose it" absolutely applies to erections.  Here's an article on it: Use it or lose it: Yes, it's true - LA Times

While yes, nocturnal erections are apparently the body's way of introducing oxygen into the penis so it stays healthy, the study mentioned above involved sexual intercourse.  In a population of 50-75 year olds, those who were having it less than once a week had a 50% greater chance of having ED five years later than those who were having it more than once a week.  The study controlled for everything else and only included those men who were healthy at the beginning.

I don't intent to diagnose or offer advice for a particular guy with a particular shlong in a particular situation.  That's what a doctor is for.  However, in general, guys who have this disease should touch, massage and USE their penises.  Letting them sit there abandoned and neglected is not a way to treat penis problems.  Being afraid of using one's penis is the most damaging part of Peyronie's.

scottslcut

I agree with you Steveo.  I view masturbation as positive and healthy as sex.  If your masturbation and its taking the place of sex in your relationship, another issue.  It's also a way to keep in touch with your penis, to see any changes good or bad.  I know there's a few folks here who view masturbation as bad in any form and that's fine for them.  Just not for most guys...

skunkworks

There has been a lot of discussion on this topic over the years.

This one thing is 100% clear to me, if you are having quick masturbation sessions which are just a few minutes of time, or forcing yourself to get an erection through aggressive stimulation frequently which you do not then maintain for a good amount of time, then you are going to cause yourself more harm than good.

Through self experimentation and what many others have reported on here, the amount of time your penis is erect matters a HUGE amount as to whether or not the time spent is helpful or harmful. And you seem to get more leeway with sex than masturbation re time, but you have to take things carefully.

Masturbation: 5 minutes erect, harmful. 30+ minutes erect, helpful. The amounts will vary from person to person but it's a pretty solid rule in general.

This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

scottslcut

So if I understand you correctly, a longer session of masturbation is better than a self quickie :)  Given time, I can go much longer with masturbation than sex with my spouse. Just because its under my control.  I'm not challenging, but where do you get the thought that it's a pretty solid rule in general?  

I make the case that listening to your body, more spousal sex and masturbation are good things.  

lionel24

My doctor told me masturbation is not bad for Peyronies. I masterbate 2-3x per day but I do it very soft. Before Peyronies, I used the grip of death. Now, soft motions get me off. I also wait 30min to 1hr to pee because it's difficult to do it right after I come.

Steveo

Quote from: skunkworks on September 12, 2017, 09:33:37 PM
Masturbation: 5 minutes erect, harmful. 30+ minutes erect, helpful. The amounts will vary from person to person but it's a pretty solid rule in general.
While I agree that the longer the penis is in an erect state, the better it is, I'm not sure where you got these numbers nor am I sure that a short amount of time erect would ever be considered "harmful" unless you're pounding your dong against a wall to get it erect in record time or something.  I just don't understand.

Even if you stretch your (other) muscles for 5 minutes a day, that's better than 0 minutes a day.  So to me, any erection is a good one whether it lasts 5 minutes or 50.