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Author Topic: Is Shockwave Therapy harmful ? And some other questions  (Read 2467 times)

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ant.ala

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Is Shockwave Therapy harmful ? And some other questions
« on: May 30, 2016, 08:52:27 AM »

Hey guys. Holla from Bulgaria :)

I came back from my URO today... He diagnosed me exactly six months ago. Now he said that the plaque hasn't changed: "length = .921 CM". He did rushed me through the door basically and didn't give me much info for some reason. So I'm turning to you guys fro help...

A little info background info:
I'm 25 years old. So I figured I should be able to "shake it off" easier at this age. I'm pretty healthy in every other regard - I eat mostly plant-based since I got Peyronies. I'm pretty fit and strong, because I do crossfit & street fitness.

The plaque is on the left side in the middle between the glans and base. I also have varicocele on the same side... I get morning wood, I get normal erections when excited but have some pain from the pull, I guess. I haven't had sex in these past 6-7 months. You can probably relate and understand why... But when I masturbate I can't really go for a second round. It does get tender and have some discomfort afterwards... would that ever go away ?

Here's what the URO rejected for me:
  • Pentox: I know you guys feel strong about it, but for some reason he said that it wouldn't help in my case.
  • Injections: He said they wouldn't help in my case either
  • VED & Traction: I asked him and he said I'd better stay away from those cuz I can do more harm than good. And he've seen it a lot.

But he said in my case a shockwave therapy could help. He referred me to another URO that has the "new machine". I don't know if it's exactly shockwave therapy because I'm not sure how it's translated in English, but he did mentioned some type of waves:
"Same as breaking up kidney stones but it's a new machine that can break up that plaque too".

I know that people who generally get relief or cure it, probably don't stick around the forum for long. But still here are my questions:
  • Has somebody done this type of therapy and does it help? Is it harmful to the penis ?
  • After 6 months of no change is it still possible to get rid of that plaque all together? Being healthy and stuff, cuz I guess the body should know what to do by itself.
  • The URO said that masturbating/sex won't have an affect... is that true or could I make things worse... ?

I don't really have all my thoughts together so I'm very sorry if my questions are all over the place.. Hope somebody more experienced that has read up much more on the subject can help me.

Thanks.
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LWillisjr

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Re: Is Shockwave Therapy harmful ? And some other questions
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2016, 07:01:04 PM »

I don't understand why he rejected 1, 2, and 3.

At least 1 and 3 are pretty easy to try with minimal risk.
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Les - 10 yrs Peyronies Disease free
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skunkworks

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Re: Is Shockwave Therapy harmful ? And some other questions
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2016, 08:39:39 PM »

Extracorporeal shockwave therapy for Peyronie's disease does not correct penile deformity. - PubMed - NCBI

Quote
ESWT did reduce pain during erection in patients suffering mainly from painful erection due to Peyronies Disease. However, penile angulation did not improve significantly in our setup and thus intercourse difficulties did improve only in 28% of the patients. Therefore, we do not recommend ESWT as a primary treatment for Peyronies Disease.

ant.ala

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Re: Is Shockwave Therapy harmful ? And some other questions
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2016, 02:22:07 AM »

@LWillisjr, I guess he said that at this stage, with calcification they won't help... About the VED and Traction he said I can do a very bad thing to myself :) Using traction and VED seems to help ease the symptoms for some here in forum... I would want to get rid of it all together, I think.

@skunkworks, thank you for the study. But it's only one study and it's from 2001. I wanted to know from somebody that has either done it or stuck long enough in the forum to see if others had success with it.

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skunkworks

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Re: Is Shockwave Therapy harmful ? And some other questions
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2016, 04:52:41 AM »

I'm don't see why the age of the study matters, the shockwaves haven't changed. I've been on this forum a long time now and have not heard of any accounts of improvement in deformity using shockwave therapy and I have been looking out.

ant.ala

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Re: Is Shockwave Therapy harmful ? And some other questions
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2016, 05:22:50 AM »

Thanks man.

I dunno, I just thought maybe the technology they use now is somewhat different or something.

So you say you've been around for long. What would be the top stuff I should try first, in your opinion? I see a lot of traction, VED, heat and some topical treatment stuff... what do you think should I go for first ?

Thanks for the answers.

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projectpd

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Re: Is Shockwave Therapy harmful ? And some other questions
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2017, 12:18:49 AM »

I was visiting the site again to look for ideas. A study (link below) was positive on ESWT, as were the studies referenced in it 12, 13 were positive, and in the editorial critique, of the two studies mentioned there as being disappointing (1,2) , 2 seemed partly positive and even 1 was also partly positive including 10 degree angulation reduction in the most severe cases.  It's always important to read the full text and not the abstract - abstracts sometimes omit important details, such as reporting non-significance categorically, while in the full text it's revealed that significance only just failed to obtain.  Remember significance levels are arbitrary, 95% is just a convention, so it can be misleading to uncategorically state non-significance. In one of these studies the improvement was significant for a relatively severely affected group but not for the overall group which was not mentioned in the abstract. in another the improvement "was just not significant" possibly a clumsy or unclear way to say that significance was only just not reached (at the 95% level).
Also angulation is not a conclusive measure as it's a secondary effect of the condition, ie even if a large percentage of the plaque was definitively healed by the treatment the remaining amount being still in place might still be able to cause the angulation, think of a parcel with a large bundle of strings not completely untied would still be binding until the last one has gone.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1677-55382004000300004
another version at http://brazjurol.com.br/may_june_2004/Claro_ing_199_204.pdf


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projectpd

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Re: Is Shockwave Therapy harmful ? And some other questions
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2017, 02:55:44 PM »


my impression is most studies do state/suggest that it is not harmful and can be beneficial however many of these are small and/or not blinded or controlled- this study is the most discouraging I found:
https://f1000.com/prime/718052469

this is an excerpt from the study ,

Penile deviation was not reduced by ESWT (P=0.66) but worsened in 20/50 (40%) and 12/49 (24.5%) patients of the ESWT and placebo-group, respectively (P=0.133). Plaque size reduction was not different between the two groups (P=0.33). Additded orional, plaque size increased in five patients (10.9%) of the ESWT group only. An improvement in sexual function could not be verified (P=0.126, RR=0.46).

the author also said : In fact, ESWT should not be offered to Peyronies Disease patients any more. We now have the evidence to not recommend this treatment to our patients. However, there is only one exception: when there is predominant pain that affects quality of life of the individual. In these cases the patients have to be informed that deviation may worsen after ESWT.

the full text is not available free. it was commented on it, in a more positive study (Chung), that it was possible that inappropriate energy flow was used, but he didn't offer any actual information about that. 

if anyone has the full text please can you comment , including on the energy flow, as sometimes the full text and abstracts seem not clearly in full agreement.
thanks
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suicidecomingsoon

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Re: Is Shockwave Therapy harmful ? And some other questions
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2017, 03:50:18 PM »

I think shockwave therapy is BS for fibrosis and  venous leak, maybe and only maybe is good for arterial problems
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Christopher1

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Re: Is Shockwave Therapy harmful ? And some other questions
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2017, 10:30:50 PM »

The waves are thought to create angiogenesis.
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