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Author Topic: Highlights of Verapamil - Injections, Topical and Iontophoresis  (Read 11510 times)

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Angus

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Highlights of Verapamil - Injections, Topical and Iontophoresis
« on: September 15, 2008, 07:48:15 PM »


The following is a one-post compilation of highlights from hundreds of posts in the Verapamil-Injections & Topical Applications Including Iontopheresis thread. Individual posts have been copied into this page and no grammar or wording has been changed from the original post. Entire posts have been copied where possible to retain the context of the original post. The posts are entered in chronological order from the top of the page to the bottom, so the oldest posts will be read first and the most recent posts will be read last. This IS a work in progress and will be added to and edited so check back often.


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Ptolemy


     Re: Verapamil - Injections
 Reply #577 on: September 01, 2008, 07:31:59 AM

Is there a consensus on this forum on verapamil injections? Who has had injections and what do you see as the result?

I am unaware of any success/improvements posted. I believe Old Man believes injections caused him to develop more Peyronies nodes.

Dr Levine it appears injects verapamil in all the patients he has on Traction. His treatment appears a direct contrast to the experience of some on this forum.

I am tempted to try injections if a few here have had any positive experience. If not, I’m inclined to follow the collective wisdom here and avoid injections.

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lwillisjr


      Re: Verapamil - Injections & Topical Applications including Iontophoresis
« Reply #578 on: September 01, 2008, 09:03:29 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ptolemy,
I do go to Levine, and I think he is a great doctor. He will only do a series of 6 injections and then evaluate progress at that point. He told me directly that 60% of his patients respond favorably to his combines therapy of 1. meds, 2. traction, and 3. injections.

I had 6 injections and they didn't do anything for me, and is why I eventually ended up having surgery. I agree that the feedback of those on this forum don't support the injections. But I believe Levine, and that the injections must work for some. When I go to my appointments with him, there are guys flying in from around the U.S. to get these. I had an 11am appointment one day and his nurse told me they had done about 20 so far that day alone. So clearly there are many guys getting these, and they all haven't found this forum yet. So I think we have to stay open minded and realize that some therapies work for some, and not for all. There is a lot of value in this site from both a knowledge and emotional support standpoint. If one therapy isn't working, then try something else. I personally couldn't sit still, I had to find something that worked for me. The surgery was eventually it. And you'll find many here who are also against the surgery. And I wouldn't recommend the surgery to everyone.

I also know that Levine is starting trials with Xiaflex, but we haven't seen the results yet and I'm not sure how you get in to be part of a trial.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. 
 




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Hawk
Administrator

 

      Re: Verapamil - Injections
« Reply #580 on: September 01, 2008, 03:26:53 PM »

Quote from: Ptolemy on September 01, 2008, 07:31:59 AM
Is there a consensus on this forum on verapamil injections? Who has had injections and what do you see as the result?

Ptolemy,  there certainly is not total agreement but we have survey results of those that have tried VI, both forum members and webvisitors.  Here is the survey results.
http://www.peyroniessociety.org/survey_ilv2.htm

note the totaled numbers under the survey table

In short, 72% either reported no improvement or a worsening condition (either because of or or in spite of VI)
28% reported some improvement.  It should also be noted that 80% 0f those reporting improvement reported only slight improvement.

It is important to understand that this is just an unscientiic survey and not a clinical study and has none of the controls of a controlled study.



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Ptolemy


     Re: Verapamil - Injections & Topical Applications including Iontophoresis
« Reply #583 on: September 03, 2008, 07:49:27 AM

To avoid cutting and pasting let me say this:

The patients saw significant improvement in plaque-associated penile narrowing (100%) and curvature (42%). However, objectively there was a decreased plaque volume of greater than 50% in 30% of the patients.

Plaque softening was noted in all patients. 83% noticed that plaque-related changes in erectile function had arrested or improved. There was no toxicity nor did symptoms recur when improvement was noted.

Interesting. Those results are amazing. Granted there were only 14 men back in 1994. Why hasn't it caught on and why is our personal experience inconsistent with this?
 




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Hawk
Administrator

 

      Re: VI Study
« Reply #584 on: September 03, 2008, 01:42:57 PM »


I am not sure I have seen this study but I did see one that Dr. Mulhall was associated with.  I found the results of that study to be unsupportive of the conclusions that they drew from the data.

First, lets be clear.  There is one factor by which Peyronies Disease improvement can legitimately be measured.  It cannot be measured by a reduction in pain (since that is the natural progress of Peyronies Disease).  It cannot be measured by reduction of plaque or softening of plaque for many reasons.  The limiting factor of Peyronies Disease is deformity.  That either gets better or the patient is not helped.  You indicate 58% saw no improvement.  Clearly some significant percentage of those saw some worsening.  It is very likely that some percentage of those that did see improvement saw only slight subjective improvement.

PS: Some differences between ED injections and Verapamil injections are that with Verapamil injections there are multiple punctures at each session as opposed to one puncture with an ED injection.  Another difference is that an ED injection uses almost the smallest gauge insulin needle made were VI uses a much larger gauge needle.


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Old Man
Senior Member - Major Contributor

 
 
     Re: Verapamil - Injections & Topical Applications including Iontophoresis
« Reply #586 on: September 03, 2008, 05:51:49 PM »


Hawk:

The doctor that gave me my 12 VI injections did not believe in using deadener when giving the shots so I only had the one puncture for each shot. Since I have a high threshold of pain, they did not bother me at all. However, each and every injection gave a nodule or a small plaque formation.

Hence I am categorically against any injection into my prized possession at any time. This applies only to me, so others can choose to whatever they desire about injections.

Old Man 



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