VED or Extender for hourglass/indentetion

[Frankb]

Hello, i am 26 years old and like many, very sad about my condition. I have 6 months with peyronies dissease. Pain has reduced a lot but still have little pain when starting sex, as well as some inestability of the penis (loss of firmness). Im still able to have erections and complete sex.

I went to see a good urologist and he told me my curvature is very small but my main problem is that i have hourglass effect. He told me to use a vacuum pump for 6 months so that i could fill with blood that "empty space" near the base of the penis and with time the penis could return to its original simetrical form, as well as recover girth and length. On the other hand i have read that the extender also works for hourglass and indentations and its even more effective for length and girth gains as well as a lower risk method.

I would really appreciate if someone with experience on ved and/or extenders for hourglass and indentetaions could give me some advice on which of the two (ved or extender) would be better for my case (hourglass/indentation) as i need to start with one of them next week. Please help.

Frankb

[QuackAttack]

Frank,
Send a personal message to Old Man. He'll help you out. He has a ton of experience with VED.

[Gutted]

As you read more on the Forum you will see that the consensus of opinion is that VED rather than traction (you call it extender) will give you the best chance of resolving hourglass  / indentations.

It is generally believed the chances of VED giving you a result will be improved by taking Pentox 400mg 3 x day and Cialis 2.5 - 5.0 mg / day for at least the duration of your VED treatment.

I would also take Acetyl L Carnitine 1000mg 2 x day and Ubiquinol 100mg 3 x day as VED treatment is as much about improving blood flow as the physical stretching of the plaque(s)

You will find the VED protocol (treatment plan) on the Forum which you can download. As QuackAttack says below, if you have any questions after reading the VED section of the Forum and studying the Protocol, send a PM to 'Old Man' who is extremely patient and helpful

[Steveo]

IMHO get started on the VED right away.  It's helped me within just a couple of months fill in my dents/hourglassing.  One 5mm dent is now about 2mm and a 2mm dent on the other side is essentially gone (maybe half a millimeter or so -- unnoticeable to anyone but me).

I all fairness I started on the VED very soon after my injury -- just a couple of months.  If your injury was a long time ago it could take longer to help.

The extender/traction did NOT help with dents.  I still use it because I think it's the best for retaining length but it is not good for dents/hourglassing (at least in my experience.)

Even just a cheap single-cylinder pump from ebay (which is what I use) will help.  But the sooner you begin the faster you'll see results. Don't delay.

It's really helped me with my confidence. For the last few months of 2015 I didn't want any girls touching my penis because I thought they'd be able to feel the dents.  The VED has made sex enjoyable again.  I still have to be kind of careful because the penis is still weak where the dents are and one wrong "thrust" could cause problems again.  But overall things are way better.  Going to continue with pumping and traction until I'm totally back to normal though.

EDIT: I do have to say, that I have one long term girlfriend and, even at 5mm, she didn't seem to notice. I actually had to point it out to her and she said, "That's it? That's your injury?" LOL so don't be too hard on yourself.  Most people other than you don't even notice things like that.

[Frankb]

Thanks for the answers, I am already in contact with old man by PM. He is really kind and is helping me a lot. I am buying both the (vacuum & extender) just in case one of them doesnt work i can try the other.

Do you know is there is a problem if I use (carefully) both of them daily ?

Frankb

[Jonbinspain]

Frankb;

VED may well help you with the hourglassing, as others have said. However, the fact remains that you still have Peyronie's disease and that left untreated it could easily worsen.

Look into low dose Cialis, Pentox, etc. You can read about them in the site. I don't wish to alarm you, but VED is  treating the symptoms, not the disease itself.  

[Dared]

The extender is the route I chose and while it has helped with length and girth I think that the ved may lend quicker results? I don't know, I was turned off the ved because of an injury I believed i sustained in the summer of last year but I may try and pick it back up again soon as I have just ceased traction. One thing I would caution against is using both ved and traction at the same time. When I tried the ved, I was also doing daily traction. Thus it is my belief that I may have "overworked" my penis and caused inflammation. Pick one and go with it but if I had to choose again I very well might have chosen the ved because of time restraints and also because I have dents. I have wasting particularly bad towards the base. By the way i did traction for almost ten months with good but not great results. As the others have said, pentox and acetyl l carnitine are musts. The l carnitinine study showed 50% reduction in curve which is greater than verapamil injections. Good luck in your journey and sorry you have to go through this.

[Dared]

Hey can someone tell me if coq10 works just as good a ubiquinol? coq10 is significantly cheaper so I'd rather buy that if it works the same...

[Jonbinspain]

Dared;

Simply put, the body uses Ubiquinol. CoQ10 is Ubiquinone, which must then be converted in the body to Ubiquinol. Certain studies have shown that after the age of around 40 the body's capability to make this conversion diminishes. Therefore, for those over age 40 Ubiquinol is the better option.  

[Frankb]

Jonbinspain,

I have been almost always taking pentoxifiline, L-arginine and cialis (1 pill every 3rd day). I never stopped taking those oral medications. I will pick up the VED and the extender i bought and have them this week, so i will strde this thursday or friday. I will go softly at first 1-2 hours of traction and 10 minutes of VED at night before bed and see if im getting any better. I hope i can get better with time because right now im desperate and really sad.

Frankb

[james1947]

Frank

VED, Pentox and low dose Cialis eliminated 3 hourglasses I had.
In my opinion, it was done mainly by the VED.
Be careful not to over-pump. Pump to the level you don't feel any discomfort or pain.
Manual pumps are more safe in my opinion.
Good luck

James

[Frankb]

James,

How long did it take for you to get rid of those 3 hourglasses? Im about to reach 3 weeks of using the VED. I know its too soon for me to think about improvements but how long did it take you?

Also, yesterday when i finished my 15 minutes pumping sesion y noticed a small light red dot on my penis. It looks like it was on top of a vein. Should i stop or can i continue?

Frank

[Steveo]

I've had a few of those red dots and they're just a small vein rupture. Not a big deal and they should heal within a couple of days.  3 weeks is an excellent start but give it 3 months of regular use.  I used mine on two newly formed dents and it started to improve them after several weeks, but the longer you've had the dents/hourglassing the longer it will take to smooth things out again.

[james1947]

From Frankb

....pumping sesion y noticed a small light red dot on my penis

Pump to a lesser pressure!!!
Wait a few days, the res dot will go away I suppose.

James

[Frankb]

Hello, the red dot has gone away but i have a brown dot that has been there for 5 days and doesnt go away. Its flat, no pain, oval shape. I noticed it after the last time i used the VED but im not sure what caused it. Im not sure if should start VED pumping again or keep waiting.

[Jonbinspain]

Frankb;

Sounds like you may have popped a few small blood vessels. You can carry on, but carefully! Never over pump or hold an induced erection for too long.  

[Old Man]

Frankb:

You need to delete some PMs in your mailbox. I have tried to send an answer to your last PM to me, but it states your box is full and cannot receive PMs.

So, take the necessary action to do this ASAP so I can answer your PM.

Old Man

[NeoV]

Your urologist is surpisingly educated.

Some things.

VED and traction are not comparable. Traction did things for me VED could not and vice versa. Getting both is a good idea as I see you are doing.

Second, be very careful not to apply pressure over the inguinal area or spermatic cord. This can result in an injury that has no known way to fix it anywhere in medical literature and results in chronically swollen skin. I would recommend to all VED users to use the small insert or small cylinder.

[Lucketts]

Does anyone see any problem if one uses the traction device (I have physiomed) right after using the VED (erect-aid)?  Seems that the VED extends and fills out the penis, which might make the traction more effective.  Using VED 20 minutes a day, and just started traction. Only doing traction 20 minutes first day to be on the safe side.

[MoatazKad]

i would also recommend not going over 5 seconds of holding time with the VED but that's just me.

[Lucketts]

Well, the uro suggested up for a minute, hold for a minute, and down/rest for a minute....for 20 minutes.  I will (as Old Man keep telling us) not push it too hard.

[MoatazKad]

i think i will be easily injured if i did hold it in place for one minute. my whole session lasts 10 minutes and have seen some nice results. but YMMV

[NeoV]

My injury was from holding below 1 minute, could have just not realized and had it on for a few minutes but I'm quite sure it was not held long. It resulted in the doughnut effect, chronic hand and face numbness and swollen penis and hands. At night even my lips and tongue get slightly numb, it's very strange and something I can hardly describe without sounding unscientific.

It may have been entirely related to the pressure the VED put on my scrotal cords and inguinal area. With a small tube or insert maybe it could have been avoided. Still, it's been over two years and I have only slightly recovered from it if at all. I always say never pump if you feel any itching or mild stinging, and never allow any pressure on your scrotal cords.


Be careful!  

[Lucketts]

Yes, I think that in order to make the tube airtight, there is a tendency to hold the tube very firm against the body. I also found that doing so can cause some pressure on the scrotal area and groin ligaments. Old Man recommended shaving the pubes against the body to help the seal.  I also find that if I rotate the tube back and forth a few times, it kind of seals things.  Don't understand though after you get the erection that you don't hold it for a minute or so or that doing so caused damage. Do you think that the erection was bigger than warranted or did it hurt?  Think I'll call the maker, Osborn Erec-Aid Monday and ask their thoughts.

[Gutted]

It may have been entirely related to the pressure the VED put on my scrotal cords and inguinal area.

I just wanted to add to Neo's point here with my experience. It took Neo making this point above and me looking at a cross-sectional diagram of the male anatomy to work out what happened to me using VED.

After a few weeks VED, I got permanent aching balls and shooting pains in the groin up into the abdomen. It seems like, even using the small insert, the pumping pulls the upper scrotal area into the cylinder and it seems to do this even if holding the scrotum with the other hand as per the instructions. So, as Neo says, delicate scrotal chords and structures are getting very stressed and it could go to unrecoverable damage point if not careful.

Even without holding the tube tight against the body, in fact almost pulling it away a little and only pumping to 50% erection I got this problem. During my VED sessions I felt no pain, discomfort, tingling or stinging. The symptoms came on later. Be warned !

Luckily the symptoms went after 12 days off/rest. It was quite uncomfortable and scary at the time. Luckily I seem OK now and going to try again but even more gently, only 25%-30% inflation and 5 second holds

Go easy guys !

[Old Man]

Note to all:

I have refrained long enough now to not enter the discussion about VED therapy pump up and holding times. But I will. The protocols listed in the VED board section were developed after many and long years of dealing with Peyronies Disease, ED and other male sexual problems.

I have over 20 years of dealing with ED and over 60 years of dealing with Peyronies Disease. A radical retropubic prostatectomy in April 1995 brought on my final episode of Peyronies Disease and total ED due to non nerve sparing surgery. The cancer was just about to become stage 4 and the prostate was near rupturing. Had this happened, the cancer would have spread to other organs and most likely causing certain death.

I say the above to let members know that I am NOT AN INEXPERIENCED PATIENT OF Peyronies Disease AND/OR ED THERAPY!! After my surgery, I worked with my personal uro with counseling his patients who were diagnosed with Peyronies Disease, ED and lastly prostate cancer. I was trained in the art of counseling his patients when they were in need of a one on one type of counseling with a man who had been through their cases of the above maladies.

Finally, my considered and very personal urgent request is that any and all members using the VED therapy for their Peyronies Disease BE FULLY AWARE OF THE PROTOCOL AND ITS INTENDED MEANING FOR Peyronies Disease THERAPY. THESE PROTOCOLS WERE DEVELOPED AFTER MANY LONG HOURS OF HELPING MEN WITH POSTS AND PMs ABOUT THEIR INDIVIDUAL CASES.

The provisions of those protocols are solely intended to prevent new and/or old members from pumping too much vacuum pressure and using too long holding time betweens pump cycles. Pumping the vacuum pressure beyond the level of feeling pain or discomfort will certainly lead to further trauma to an already injured penis.

So, please take the advice of an 86 year old coot who has been through Hell and back with Peyronies Disease, ED, prostate cancer and other men's sexual problems. I have no personal interest in any company selling VEDs or related men's sexual health products nor do I receive any compensation for recommending any of their products. I have personally used those products that I recommend and know their ability to function properly as a good and durable medical grade product.

Good luck to any and all members using the VED therapy for treatment of their Peyronies Disease as well as ED problems.

Old Man

[Jimbruski]

Old Man,

Thank you for your post.  You were one of the few members that took the time to address me personally through email.  I'm greatful to you for that and I intend to follow your advice as soon as my VED arrives.

Thanks Again,

Jimbruski

[Frankb]

Old man,

Sorry i didnt notice my inbox was full. I have eliminated some messages now.
I still have that light brown dot, its flat, no pain but still there.

Has anybody had any experience with brown dots? What should i do?

Frank

[james1947]

Frank

I had them more than ones, they went away after a while.
Made a break with the VED

James

[krazylord]

Hi guys,

I have the same exact problem as Gutted. I also got permanent aching balls (the left one) and shooting pain in the groin up into the abdomen (the left one). I also got this problem being very careful and I also did not feel anything during the session. Now it hurts bad.

I will stop doing VED for a month, and see if the pain goes away. Is there anything we can do about this other than rest?

Thanks guys.

[Gutted]

Krazylord  .....  those are exactly the symptoms I had but on the right hand side.

As per my post below that you are referencing, I think I worked out what was causing it. I think it is related to the vacuum pressure somehow affecting the inguinal area.

I guess everyone must be different as I got these symptoms only pumping to 50% ... which is the Forum recommended max and I was only holding for 10 seconds. I was also careful not to push the cylinder hard against my body. In fact, getting a seal was very easy for me. The cylinder didn't even need to be against my body.

Some people pump beyond 50% and also hold for much longer, 30 - 60 seconds and seem to get away with it.

After stopping the protocol for 2 weeks these symptoms went. I noticed within a day of starting again they came back, so I now know it is the VED causing it.

I now heat for an hour with the Hothands hand warmers then do only a 10 min VED session at 30% inflation and only hold for 5 seconds. So even more careful than the protocol. This ultra gentle approach seems to work in that the symptoms have not come back

Hope that helps

[krazylord]

Hey Gutted,

Thanks for the help. I use the small cylinder A, which is the one I need. All the other ones make my deformations a lot worse, and cylinder A is the only one that makes my penis straight. Now that being said, is so small that once my penis has reached the limites of it, this is still a small penis meaning is not even close to full erection (for that I need cylinder C), so when you say that you pump to 50% I dont quite understand what you mean. In Cylinder A, I pump until my penis gets all the way to the walls of the cylinder. Doing less than that is just the same as not doing anything for me, as my flaccid penis is already close to the width of cylinder A. I hope you understand what I am saying.

My pain in the scrotal cords is there even when I run. It does sound scary. Hopefully resting for a month will make it go away.

By the way, ice makes the pain go go away a bit.

Thanks for the tip!

[NeoV]

I have scrotal pain on both sides that can be very severe, which came from VED. If you keep pumping I believe you will end up with the "doughnut effect" like I and many other guys have around the net.

After nearly three years of no VED the pain has slightly subsided and I'm pain free there most of the time, which I'm very thankful for. It seems this injury or damage is very hard to heal from.

My theory is that a small insert would work without causing damage but I'm afraid to even try.

[krazylord]

Hi Neov,

I only used the big cylinder once, and after I saw that the deformities get a lot wors, I saw no point on using it, so have used the small one several times, but just 4 or 5 times, thats it. No more.

I dont know what is the doughnut effect. I just saw some pictures of the doughnut effect and that sounds crazy. it looks tough that it is just some build up lymphatic fluid. I guess that happens if you try to get a full erection or even bigger than normal erections with a pump. With a small cylinder, that is just impossible, since there is just this much you can engorge. But I still got the pain in the groin/abdomen area though.

My pain is mainly in my abdomen area, right above the left testicle, close to the groin. I really hope that it can go away. I will rest up and see.

Thanks for the info!

[Gutted]

Interesting ... I follow the Forum 3 cylinder protocol which rotates the cylinder (A, B or C) you use during the course of the 26 week treatment protocol.

Apparently, the thinking / experience from developing the Forum protocol over the years shows that each different cylinder size contributes something different to the 26 week treatment cycle i.e. rotating the cylinders as described in the protocol is deemed to be more effective than using a single sized cylinder.

Although, I seem to be able to use both size insert seals, I always use the small one after reading NeoV's post some time ago about inguinal area damage from pressure. I agree with him. Logic says, the small insert should minimize pressure (vacuum) on the inguinal area during pumping cycles.

Interesting you say your deformity gets worse with the bigger cylinders. Although the idea of the small cylinder in the protocol is to force a 'straight' erection because the cylinder is small and restrictive anyway.

When I talk about % pump (erection), I am going on length. So like a 30% or 50% of natural erect length. I personally find that I cannot use girth as any measurement as girth is the first thing to pump up for me during VED. It happens almost instantly on the first pump of the lever. In fact, I would say a 30% of max length VED pump gives me 100% natural erect girth, maybe even more. I would guess that a good girth expansion in VED is a good thing as you are essentially after a 3D stretch to try and pull out hourglass dents.

In terms of my deformities, I seem different from you because every VED erection (30% - 50%) I pump in any cylinder gives me a deformity free erection. In fact, I was going to post on that subject alone as I find it very interesting that a VED erection in any cylinder, even at 30% - 50% of max is totally deformity free for me. Whereas any full natural erection has all the defomities ......... unexplainable ? and annoying    Interesting in a pumped VED erection you still have the deformities .... totally opposite to me

[krazylord]

Hi Gutted,

I know it is weird. My case is simple: the first part of the shaft engorges a lot more than the top part. When I use the big cylinder, the first half part of the haft star to grow girth wise, while the second part stays the same, so the deformity gets a lot worse. However, if I am in the small cylinder, that avoids the first half of the shaft to continue expanding and gives a chance to the second part to do it. Thats why in my case, only the small cylinder really makes my penis to look without deformities. Just imagine that my penis looks like a cone, / \. In the small cylinder, after I pump, i can get it straight, | |, but in the big cylinder, it becomes a lot worse.

In my case also girth is the first thing that happens when I pump. The problem is that it does it so much, that I need to stop or else I feel my penis is gonna explode (too much girth), so I can't ever get an erection length wise, since my penis grows girth wise too much that i need to stop.

I think my problem could just be that when I used the penis extender, I somehow damaged the tunica and now it has no resistance at all when blood comes in, so it automatically starts to expand with zero resistance while the rest is not. However it could also be that I have fibrosis in the top of the shaft, so that only the "healthy" part is expanding. This is hard to know which is the problem, either fibrosis in the part that does not expand, or over-stretcheing in the part that expands too much. And no doctor has been able to help identify anything.

For all these reasons, the only cylinder that helps me is the small one. But now I cannot use it due to this pain in the abdomen/groin and testicle. This is just a nightmare.

Thanks,

[Gutted]

Sounds logical Krazylord. You have it worked out it seems.

Like you say, something is preventing an even inflation between the lower half and the upper half and your two possible theories for that sound good.

After two weeks off my pains had gone. I exercised plenty and used heatpacks 4-6hrs / day

Maybe the answer is for you to have a good 2 weeks break from VED, use heat and exercise. Then go back to VED with a very gentle one cylinder protocol and use a heatpack for an hour before your VED sessions.

After my break I really started again very cautiously. First day back I tried 5 mins VED session and like 25% inflation and 5 secs hold. Just to sort of 'feel my way' back in and be sure I was getting no symptoms.

I have slowly worked my way up to 30% inflation and between 5-10 second hold for a total of 10 mins per treatment once a day. The aching has not come back. So I will now start the Forum 3 cylinder protocol from the beginning again on Monday using these numbers and hopefully be OK to get through the full 26 weeks

cheers

[krazylord]

Hi Gutted,

Really appreciate your answer How san you do 4/6 hours heat a day in that area where we have the pain? What do you use for that? You just lay down 4 hours? I am curious as to how to do it.

That being said, eagh of my two theories have different outcomes. If it is fibrosis, VED and other therspies might help. If it is oversttetched tunica, only surgical grafting to replace tunica is the option. I would really like to find out which one of the two it is.

I will try your suggestion and post back.

Thanks!

[Gutted]

Hi Krazylord

The way to heat came from another member. You use those hand warmers you put in your gloves. Skiers use them a lot.

The brand that seems the best and has been used by me and other Forum members is: Hot Hands Hand Warmers. If you Google that you should find them. You can buy them in bulk for a reasonable price.

You strap one of these hand warmers to yourself. People hold them in place in different ways. They come up with their own little trick. Personally, I bought some Velcro tape and use that as a wrap to hold it in place. That way, it's easy to get on and off when you need to as well. I get my 4 - 6 hrs done in the evening at home rather than walking around during the day.

I would have thought MRI, Ultrasound or a combo of both would provide you with a diagnosis ?

Hope it all works out for you !

[krazylord]

Has anybody deleted my post or James's?

[james1947]

I am sure a moderator moved your post here:
https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,7388.0.html
This is the only place you can post pictures, the decision was taken long ago.
This board is not seen by guests and google search or other searching machines.

James  

[krazylord]

Hi James,

Yes, you are right. I saw it some minutes ago. No problem at all

[krazylord]

Hi Gutted,

Thanks for the recommendation. I already got them, and they heat very well many hours. My scrotal cord area hurts almost continuously, but I hope this will make it go away after some weeks of daily heat. Not doing VED for now.

Thanks guys!

[Steveo]

Interesting re: the "donut effect" !!

Just checked out some pictures online.  I pump quite hard and have never seen that.  Hope I never do!

That would appear to be a tremendous buildup of lymphatic fluid between the skin the internal facia of the penis.  I hope.  Because otherwise that would indicate a rupture of the tunica which would be very bad.  Although it seems that would let in blood rather than lymph.  Donno, I'm not a doc.

Would that be the result of pumping too fast?  That is, too much vacuum while the penis is still flaccid?

I pump hard but I pump slowly and take a good few minutes for the penis to reach a full erection before going hard on it.  Perhaps when pumping too fast, it pulls fluid into the penis faster than it can fill up and might cause that?