Pleased with VED progress

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Steveo

Just wanted to report that I've been seeing very good results with an inexpensive single-cylinder pump to correct "dents" and hourglassing.

I'm 40 years old. My peyronie's started 2 years ago and bent the glans up. This took an even worse turn about 6 months ago when that bend caused me to "miss the mark" during sex and "fracture" my penis slightly by bending it suddenly upward in the middle of the shaft.  This caused at least one tear and immediate bruising.

Fortunately the damage was not severe. There was fairly substantial bruising but I did not see a doctor for it because I knew the only thing he would recommend would be either 1) do nothing, or 2) surgery.  Neither interested me.  About two weeks later the penis started denting on both sides and to a lesser extent the top and bottom where it had been bent.

After letting the injury heal and the bruising subside for a couple of weeks, I started on traction for about 3 hours a day.  This did seem to prevent shrinkage and curvature but did not prevent the increasingly indented ring that was forming around my penis.

As the denting grew worse I realized that traction was doing nothing for it so I switched to an inexpensive VED I'd previously purchased on eBay.  Since then, I've been using it every day for about 20-30 minutes.  About 2 months total.  Sometimes I do traction for 4 hours one day and VED the next.

I pump the penis very full and let it sit for 20-30 seconds, then release, remove the device and massage for 20-30 seconds.  Repeat.  I don't use the rubber seal because I find it makes it too hard to get on and off -- I just press the round base of the VED against my body and have found that produces enough of a seal.

The denting has already begun to "fill back in" (remodel) and I believe that in another few months it will be nearly unnoticeable (it's already unnoticeable to anyone but myself, though it does cause localized weakness in the tunica where further bending injuries could occur).

As an aside, since the peyronie's started in 2014, I have tried the following and have found they don't seem to do anything for me: CoQ10, tumeric, DMSO, DMSO + SSKI, paba, arginine, carnitine, pentox, B-vitamins, E-vitamins, C-vitamins, D-vitamins, zinc, castor oil.

I've found some help with Cialis, mostly because it has a localized influence on the size of the penis (structural effect rather than just systemic).

A big help for erection quality has been quitting coffee entirely. I now drink green tea which has far less caffeine. This has also helped with mood swings. I posted here awhile back a study showing that coffee may have a net positive effect on circulation; I no longer believe this to be true, at least for me.

Confounding variables are that I've started eating better and going to the gym semi-regularly ever since the new year.  These behavioral changes may or may not have helped.

As I and others have said before, I believe that bending/shrinkage is caused by scarring that contracts longitudinally down the length of the penis while denting/hourglassing is caused by scarring that contracts circumferentially around the penis.  I think that both cause localized weakness in the tunica which can then lead to further injuries and more scarring -- a vicious cycle.

In my case, it is possible that traction alone during the first few months of healing caused the dents or at least didn't prevent them. Traction does pull the penis longer but I believe it actually tends to contract it circumferentially. Much like a rubber band or balloon gets thinner when it's stretched.  That theory would predict that traction alone during healing may give rise to denting.

I also believe it's important to pump the penis to a larger state than normal erections achieve. I'm not sure the scar/plaque can remodel if that doesn't happen.

I still believe traction is important, even vital. My penis feels great after several hours of stretching each day.  It hangs soft and long and I think there's no better way to regain or prevent lost length.  But if I had only one tool to use it would be the VED because that's the only thing that gives the penis a complete erection-like stretch which is necessary not only to avoid shortening and bending but denting as well.

I plan to continue the use of both.

james1947

Same here Steveo regarding VED. Eliminated me 3 hourglasses.
VED, Pentox, low dose Cialis softened my plaques.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Pfract

You fractured your penis, knew about it, and did nothing, knowing in advance the complications of this. For F~@< sakes... I just think to myself why was I not operated being screwed for life, and then I  read crap like this.  :-(

NeoV

Steve that's great!!

Exactly what I've been preaching. Yes VED can fill out dents to some degree, and YES traction is mysteriously effective, vital for me as well if not the only thing that works.

I had to stop VED due to an injury to my lymphatic vessels. It's caused my entire body to become numb and caused me a lot of psychological pain. Please be careful, I injured myself while not even overdoing it, nor was my penis full. Stop if you feel mild stinging or odd stretching sensations. It's not the fibrous tissue breaking, it's your blood vessels and lymphatic vessels !! (cringes).

Keep up the good work.

Pfract,

To my limited knowledge on penile surgery, there is no standard or even completely effective surgery for a fracture. I have not heard of anyone who has been "normal" again after surgery for a fracture. Perhaps it is important but I'm just saying it's a messy science, and certainly blaming yourself for any aspect of this is unwarranted.  

QuackAttack

SteveO,

It sounds like you have taken all of the same supplements that I have. Many of them are what John Park scams people on.  I fell for it, but didn't buy a thing off of his site claiming that the supplements cured his peyronies, I found out he is on a Xiaflex commercial by the company that makes the drug.

Good to hear something is working. I plan to get my URO go prescribe a VED in the Pentox doesn't work when I will use it along with Xiaflex.

Steveo

Thanks. After a couple of years and dozens, if not a hundred or more, hours of researching peyronie's, I've come to the conclusion that the best method is to treat it like a hypertrophic scar and use mechanical methods to remodel it slowly.  All of my recent research has actually been on hypertrophic scarring, not on peyronies.  There's been far more research done on skin and muscle scarring and hence the knowledge is much greater.

I don't know whether peyronie's is a "scar" per se. Some call it plaque, fibrosis, whatever. But I think, for treatment purposes, it's best thought of as simple hypertrophic scarring rather than some mysterious "disease" which might respond to systemic drugs and voodoo therapy.

I've never heard of a supplement or vitamin or systemic drug that reduces hypertrophic scars.  The only proven ways, AFAIK, are through physical manipulation of the scar tissue itself over time.  But that's just my opinion, I'm not a doctor.

I also believe it's important to start treatment ASAP. The longer one waits, the longer rehab will take.  I spent the initial year after the original glans/sulcus injury taking all the supplements I mentioned above. Didn't do a thing.  I wish I'd spent that time in a VED.  Now, while this newer (and actually more serious) injury is healing rather well, that old injury is taking its sweet time to go back to normal.  And it may very well take years to fully heal, if ever.

Gutted

Funny you should say that 'Steveo'

I've been thinking the same thing. I'm not a Doctor either but took Pharmacology at Uni but more importantly, I have spent a lot of time recovering from numerous extreme sports injuries over the years, which could be as minor as a sprain, right through to reconstructive surgery.

I too have noticed and drawn parallels between my successful recovery from those and many of the comments on the Peyronies physical therapies discussed / used in this Forum community.

I invest heavily in a sophisticated Sports Injury Rehab practitioner who uses manipulation, massage and stretching techniques. These are not quick fixes either and it is month after month of rehab employing these techniques. What is interesting it that, without fail, I heal and recover functionality well beyond what the surgeons say is possible. I have lost count of the number of times surgeons have said to me (in post injury progress consultations) how remarkable my healing is for a 50 yr old, it's more like a man in his early 20's. The last wrist injury (operation) I had, the surgeon actually double checked my scans / xray to see if it was mine he was looking at, whilst saying "that's impossible" ! (degree and maturity of healing process). Obviously, with wrist reconstruction all tissue types are involved in the healing process, not just the bones.

So, I totally get your view on this. I'm not saying it is as one dimensional as this as I would regard myself as very fit, eat very well and have taken dietary, mineral and vitamin supplements nearly all my life. Like you, I am also a strong believer in state of mind. In my experience, it has also played a fundamental role in my injury recovery and restarting sports afterwards ......... you must totally "believe and want it".

I know this is anecdotal rather than scientific but this is what gives me hope with mechanical methods (VED / Traction) for Peyronies as well.


MoatazKad

its interesting that you say you got results from 20-30 second sitting since that would just cause more trauma for me personally.  

MoatazKad

NeoV, I'm curious about the numbness you got. Did it occur when you used the bigger cylinders for the VED? did you feel some numbness in the penis inside the VED itself or after you did your session?

NeoV

MoatazKad,

I used the standard cylinder for the Augusta single cylinder device. I use the medium insert, which I believe had a large part to do with it since a lot of pressure is applied to the inguinal area near the scrotum. I pumped it up to a moderate erection and after about 15 seconds of holding it my penis became massive and filled with fluid. There was no pain involved, and hardly any warning sign. I had a mild stinging or itching feeling which I had assumed was the scar tissue breaking, I was wrong about that.

My penis remained in that so called "donut effect" for a day or so before going back to normal size, but it never actually went back to normal. Ever since my penis has been slightly filled with fluid. The glans is more squishy and so is the skin everywhere. Everything was pretty numb including my abdomen after this, and it even reached my face, hands, and feet.

Unfortunately what I read about penile edema prognosis is not too good. I have no idea what broke or tore. I wonder if there was some underlying issue before the injury, but I haven't been able to detect any.  

Pey-penis

I read many letters of praise for VED and I decided to expand my treatments. Currently used daily DMSO with Iodide (Lugol solutnion) for softening a scar and ordered one cylinder VED to stretch the scar 3D. I also will do massage of the scar in the meantime as far as possible.

QuackAttack

Pey,

I did the DMSO with Lugol, it was worthless in 3 months of applying that with heat.

Pey-penis

I do not know if you noticed but Iodine helps soften the scar but scar itself does not stretch so I ordered VED. We have to use methods combined because as written in another letter that you have to mechanically stretch the scar - it did not stretch by itself. In Dupuytren's disease after the injection of softener (Xiaflex) therapist straightens the finger "by force" to reduce contracture.

Pey-penis

Finally, I received my VED. It is one cylinder with hand pump pear type. Cylinder is 20 cm long and 5.5 cm in diameter with a pitch length in centimeters. When I tried it the first time I thought it was defective (Chinese article) because underpressure automatically be lowered after pumping out. I thought this is a defect but this is property for safety reason. Pear pump has made tiny holes, so that air can escape slowly, preventing damage to the penis with too high underpressure. So the device is working pulse mode increasing choke and reducing the negative pressure in the rhythm of my pumping. The scale on the cylinder is useful to apply the graduation of work. I can set myself pumped up to 30% length, up to 60% length and up to 100% the length of the penis erect. So after application of iodide with DMSO 30 minutes I do some massage of plaque 10 minutes and 10 minutes of pumping with VED.

Steveo

Looking forward to hearing your progress.  

My hourglass progress is going very well.  However, the VED is not preventing a developing dorsal curvature where the penis was bent upward during my summer injury.  It's slow but unmistakable.

When I saw how effective the VED was a couple of months ago I stopped with the traction.  Bad idea.  Now I'm back on traction for 2-4 hours a day in the hopes of arresting and correcting the developing curve.

These observations do support the theory that VED helps with girth and traction with length/straightness.  It's just a pain to use both.  But I do think it's necessary.  Even if you use them on alternating days.

Further, I think it's necessary to gradually extend the traction device up to the point of maximum pre-injury length or you will see shrinkage over time.  I've lost about a third of an inch since my original injury awhile back.  I believe this was because I was not taking the extender to the full extent of my bone-pressed flaccid length but rather about a half-inch shy.

Obviously if you already have suffered shortening, you're going to want to do this very slowly (over months) to avoid further injury.

Pey-penis

It's been a while since my previous letter of 13 February 2016. I try to consistently apply compresses of a mixture of 50% Lugol solution with 50% DMSO and massage the parts where adhesions occur. VED use less rather than every week. Today, we have 13 of May and I offer a brief report on the progress in the fight against this disease. As a result of the above described systematic actions curvature decreased so much that I no longer have to use fancy figures "T" to make sex. Penis is not straight as it was before, and probably never will be but I can have sex in the position face to face. At the point where the adhesions stopped (about 1/4 of the length of the end of the penis) union is sought in the form of sphere having a diameter of about 5 mm and formed the small hourglass  at this point and at this point is the greatest curvature during erection. The part with the adhesions become more flexible and prone to stretching away curvature at this point.Using the VED increases the diameter (thickness) of the penis at the base of the part not covered by the bad Peyronie condition. This has the advantage that the penis has greater rigidity and is more resistant to buckling, so I no longer have combined with a change position "T".
As you know this is not a therapy for a week or two just for months but I note the progress and it gives me hope for further improvement. Greetings to all!

QuackAttack

Pey,

What was your curvature before and now in terms of the degree of curvature?

Pey-penis

I did not measure it with a protractor but the curvature was such that I had to use the tricks to have sex. I think it was over 30 degrees and I've lost 3cm in length. Now it is about 15 degrees, and I recovered 1.5 centimeters in length. In addition, it increased thickness at the base because of the use of VED.

treeza1

Would anyone here be able to tell me if VED would be effective 3 years after Peyronies. I'm a 25 year old and have had no change in penis appearance since 6 month mark. No pain since this initial period either. Also what would be the the benefits of taking pentox and cialis during the VED and how often do you take this medication? I had been told a similar thing by my uro, do nothing and see what happens, or surgery. Figure it's never to late to begin therapy. Now might be my time. Have 1 plaque on either side of shaft with curve favouring the left and 40 degree upwards bend. James or Old Man would appreciate any feedback. Thanks

Jonbinspain

Treeza;

VED, used correctly, can improve and maintain penile health. It may also help with a reduction in curvature, depending on how severe your condition is.

As you have had the disease for some time it's possible that calcification of the plaque has occurred. You really need an ultrasound to establish this.  

treeza1

Jonbinspain, thanks for the reply. Would calcification mean that this form of treatment becomes ineffective is that what you are saying? Thanks

Jonbinspain

Treeza;

No, not necessarily. But calcified plaque is always far more difficult to treat. It's best that you know what you're dealing with.

Used correctly, VED can help overall penile health anyway.  

Commodus67

I'm struggling with VED. Only been using single cylinder manual device for about a week. But either I am doing it wrong or seems to be making it worse.
Been on Pentox for about 2 months but it all seems not to be working.
And I am beginning to get quite depressed.
Have had Peyronies Disease since Dec 2015 diagnosed March2015.
I don't have ED as in I can get erect but I have about 90 degree bend upwards
And painful rections, pain has got slightly better whilst on pentox.
How long will VED take, when we talk about pump to 50% erect. I've forgotten what. Real full erection looks like, the Glans get big and red when pumping, how much do I pump too,
Everyone says careful not to over pump but I'm not sure if I'm under pumping.
I just want something to help. Even a little so I feel I'm getting somewhere.

Jonbinspain

Commudus;

Start slowly and build up, as with everything. If you feel any pain whilst pumping, release pressure immediately. Minor discomfort is ok but pain, no.

I'd suggest you send a PM to Old Man. He's our resident VED expert. Explain where you're at and I'm sure he'll be able to help you

Be aware that you're in a marathon, this ain't a sprint.,....

Steveo

Quote from: Commodus67 on June 29, 2016, 01:32:52 PM
I'm struggling with VED. Only been using single cylinder manual device for about a week. But either I am doing it wrong or seems to be making it worse.
...
Have had Peyronies Disease since Dec 2015 diagnosed March2015.
I don't have ED as in I can get erect but I have about 90 degree bend upwards
...
How long will VED take, when we talk about pump to 50% erect. I've forgotten what. Real full erection looks like, the
My friend, a week of VED use is nothing.  You have a 90 degree bend which is very severe.  It will take months and months to straighten.  Possible years.

IMHO (and I'm not a doctor) you'll have to pump far more than 50% if you want to see improvement in a reasonable time.  I know folks here say don't pump too hard, and you certainly don't want to injure yourself, but I approach it as I would stretching a muscle.  If I don't feel the stretch to the point where it's a little bit uncomfortable, then it ain't stretching.

There should not be any sharp pain, but I believe there should be a little stretching discomfort, if there is to be any progress.

NeoV

Steveo is right, in that VED and traction take years, but they do work.

That being said, it also takes guys months to be able to pump past 50%. Don't force it, only pump until you can. Slowly your penis will become more adjusted to it and begin to fill out more. I was almost never able to pump to full from zero with the VED for the two months I used it. Avoid any pain whatsoever, if you ask me, and NEVER pump over the inguinal area or you will be sorry. If you are like me, and have your inguinal spaces exposed more for some reason, you might have to use the small insert, and even then may never be able to use the VED. Be patient!

Steveo

True, I think the greatest danger of VED use is where the cylinder presses into the groin.  

Yes, if you over-pump you could tear parts of the penis itself but I think the pain would be excruciating before you did a huge amount of damage.

However, there are a lot of delicate structures around the base of the penis and the scrotum.  Which is why, when I pump a lot, I pull the device away from my body as best I can without losing the seal.  I am looking into finding a foam-rubber base that I can cut a hole in so that the edge of the tube doesn't gouge into my groin area as the pressure increases.