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Author Topic: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol  (Read 2177 times)

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peyroniessufferer

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CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« on: December 18, 2015, 01:10:10 AM »

Hello,

I have heard that some men with Peyronie's take CoQ10 or Ubiquinol. Ubiquinol is the stronger version I believe. Has anyone taken these and seen improvement? And what is the dosage of each of these supposed to be?

Thanks for the help.

Peyroniessufferer
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Jonbinspain

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2015, 01:54:00 AM »

The human body uses Ubiquinol. CoQ10 is Ubiquinone, which the body must then convert to Ubiquinol for its use. After the age of 40ish, the body's ability to make this conversion supposedly diminishes. But, at any age it's better to take Ubiquinol directly. It's is far more expensive, however.

As to dosage, it's individual, dependent on age, health etc. personally, I take 200 mg of Ubiquinol daily.
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kuaka

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2015, 06:39:01 AM »

I've found Ubiquinol at Walmart for quite reasonable.
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Freemason

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2015, 05:26:42 PM »

CoQ10 certainly won't hurt..your body and heart needs it...especially if U are on a statin.
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Ketric

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2016, 06:27:58 PM »

Is it standard protocol to stay on COQ10 indefinitely? Has anyone noticed unpleasant side-effects? What is the science and benefit (beyond heart benefits) for those who suffer from Peyronies Disease?
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james1947

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2016, 06:36:37 PM »

Ketric

You may get your answers bellow:
CoQ10 |Coenzyme Q10 | Uses, Side Effects, Safety, and Claims of CoQ10
Coenzyme Q10 Evidence - Mayo Clinic
Also Dr. Mercola have something to say in the subject, but he is also a salesman :)
CoQ10 & Ubiquinol | CoQ10 Benefits
And don't forget if you are 40+, Ubiquinol is a better option

James 
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Ketric

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2016, 10:33:45 PM »

thanks as always James...you're an outstanding resource to this forum!
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Perspex

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2016, 11:14:09 AM »

i cant see anything to really suggest the coQ10 is actually going to be of any good. Very tenuous suggestions at best

Hmm. I just bought a bag and I'm hesitating before opening it. I might get a refund. I dont want to be consuming this stuff out of fear but for no rational reason.

Instead I'll eat more of the stuff that contains this coQ10 - like peanut butter.... which is a much more natural way to get it in to me
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james1947

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2016, 01:00:00 PM »

Perspex

Maybe is a good idea to get refund and not to take CoQ10.
You stated:
Quote
i cant see anything to really suggest the coQ10 is actually going to be of any good...
Did you read the links I provided two posts below? Posting this one again because Mayo Clinic is a serious site, with a lot of information that maybe you will want to read. Of course it is up to you if you want to read or not:
Coenzyme Q10 Evidence - Mayo Clinic
Also helped many on the forum

James
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NeoV

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2016, 04:42:16 PM »

Perspex, have you read the Peyronie's study on CoQ10?
It's actually the best study on any oral supplement to date for Peyronie's, and showed very positive results.
International Journal of Impotence Research - Safety and efficacy of coenzyme Q10 supplementation in early chronic Peyronie's disease: a double-blind, placebo-controlled randomized study

I cannot recommend CoQ10 enough based on the above study.

The studies we have on ALCAR, for example, were very discouraging yet for some reason some favor it on these forums. One study on it was not double blind or controlled to really mean anything, and one study on ALCAR even showed it did not work at all on Peyronie's. Even so, we tend to have favorites here these forums.

I'm not trying to say this works and this doesn't really, in fact, I think even something as simple as eating blueberries every day may have better results than CoQ10 or ALCAR (blueberries were used in a Peyronie's study after all). Actually I would bet my money on it, but even the case for ALCAR looks like it isn't that bad when reviewing the science behind it. Using supplements that have been used in studies that show positive results is a good starting point.

I did hear someone say that Levine or someone said the Iranian study had some issues with methodology, and this was a recent post which I will have to dig for. I am wondering if this was a mistake or if there really is something wrong with the CoQ10 study or if he was referring to ALCAR. This is another point entirely that I have to settle still but haven't had the time.
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Perspex

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2016, 05:22:14 PM »

hey James

YEah, I did read those links.

The one you just reposted here puts it in class C for Peyronies.. (C
    Unclear scientific evidence for this use)


So that's not so convincing.

I'm not trying to rejuect anything too quickly.. but don't want to dive in too quickly and start consuming a product that may not be needed.

Especially as it seems that CoQ10 seems to be present in many food stuffs that I eat regularly, avocado, brocoli, peanuts etc
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Perspex

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2016, 05:56:52 PM »

NeoV, thanks for the reply

that is a really good report. Nice to see the whole thing. That does sound very positive

It does seem to ignore the diets of the people doing the experiment.. which is odd. On top of any placebo/Coq10 being taken, there are probably massive variations in what individuals were getting in their daily diet.
But the results seem to be quite consistently better for those who didnt get the placebo.

This being the case... and so clearly.. I wonder why it is that this report isn't used as evidence more broadly to show that CoQ10 should be used as a supliment... as it helps reduce and even improve peyronies.

I am new to this world.. so maybe it is. But If not only eating things containing this enzyme.. but taking supliments on top is almost certainly a help (as the report suggests), why doesn't my g.p tell me to take it.... why isn't it on every info document about peyronies... why havent more research project been carried out to investigate this?

but.. from this single report. It does seem to be a good idea to try qnd get more coq10 in to my body


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NeoV

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2016, 06:25:46 PM »

No problem Perspex. Again I'm not really advocating one supplement over the other here.

There are three things here I can say, (which you may certainly be well aware of)

1. As you research Peyronie's, or any disease for that matter, you find that there is little consensus or understanding of the sources of information online or anywhere. Wikipedia, webmd, and mayoclinic, list most things studied on a given ailment, but do not look into the quality of studies, and make it appear as if all "alternative treatments" are equal. If something does not cure a disease, it's lumped into a category and left alone. Reversely, even a badly done study makes headlines such as "men with Peyronie's find relief with supplement or new drug," when in reality, the new drug or supplement hasn't been shown to work at all. This is true for any disease.

2. From my experience researching and taking supplements, a dosage higher than you can get from real food is often times critical, and also unhealthy. As you probably know, high doses of anything, even basic vitamins, can mess with your body and do some serious harm such as cancer. Even so, when it comes to something like Citrulline, it would be literally impossible for a man to consume enough watermelon to feel anything in his penis. The CoQ10 study was 400mg, a whole avacado has 2mg. I expect that some of the men in the study did get CoQ10 from their diets, so it's not really about getting it, but about using it to actually make something change in your body.

3. Supplements don't have the financial backing to be studied for any disease like drugs do. Xiaflex was a money making drug, CoQ10, could be nearly free if it was recognized as a real way to "cure" something, granted the two are entirely different. The same goes for Arginine and Citrulline vs Cialis and Viagra. Even pentox is preferred for research over supplements, yet not as preferred as a drug would be if it was made specifically for Peyronie's.

In summary, we cannot trust anything other than hard evidence. High dosages, while often times dangerous, can cause serious changes in the body, and supplements have no financial backing for research.
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lonelyboy

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2016, 07:43:10 PM »

Hi Perspex,
I was on statins for my cholesterol until I suspected them of interfering with my body functions, Im now taking an extra dose of b12, B6 and another that I cant think of at the moment plus some benecol and its having the desired effect of the statins, my GP wouldn't prescribe the B vits though.
For balance, I'm also taking lots of other supps that I suspect arn't helping much  ;)
HTH
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Perspex

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2016, 04:13:46 AM »

Neo V - Excellent points

I especially liked this - :D

it would be literally impossible for a man to consume enough watermelon to feel anything in his penis.

Yeah well this is a big problem. Trying to decipher what to put my belief in to (and for everyone). Again it goes back to drugs companies having an extraordinary influence over research... which is inevitably used mainly to back ideas which could be produce profitable results. Also neglecting products or methods where financial gain isn't monopolised.. or possible. Where the funding goes is all important for student and professional medical scientists alike.

sooo.. in the end got to just wing it one way or the other.. based on very limited data.

I also am aware that the companies selling and producing these supplements are in the end trying to make money. That is why they sell it. How much can I be aware of.. and trust the impact they have on convincing us these products may help? They will have marketing teams employed to convince us of such things... so how much can I trust (rhetorical)?

Its every man for himself it seems. Do you know of any other papers apart from the Iranian one that convincingly supports coQ10 use for peyronies? Would be good to read more


also - our bodies should make enough coq10 for our cells (ideally). If they dont make enough.. then we would have all sorts of issues other than peyronies (wouldn't we?). Our bodies probably aim to produce as much as is needed unless there is a problem with the system that produces the Coq10. In which case we need to focus on that system as well as the subsequent insufficiency of CoQ10. Does eating more of this enzyme actually help? In fact does it have the potential to confuse our bodies in to producing even less Coq10 (due to us placing so much in our bodies)... further damaging whatever feedback mechanism it is that produces the stuff. Reducing our bodies producion further

I need to look in to this more...

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Gutted

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2016, 11:37:17 AM »

Perspex

I'm not exactly sure what is specifically driving your high level of caution about CoQ10 / Ubiquinol. Perhaps if we knew that we might be able to help more??

CoQ10 as a health supplement, particularly with cardiovascular issues has been around for decades and has been proven in that respect and also for it's 'energy releasing' properties.

In my opinion, if you distill this decision down, CoQ10 / Ubiquinol isn't exactly a Chemotherapy or not decision. It has been taken safely for decades in doses up to 1000mg / day. I used to take a 100mg Ubiquinol / day to aid my sporting ability anyway but on getting Peyronies Disease I have upped it to 300mg / day. No side effects. As far as I can see, no one has reported side effects on the Forum either.

As an FYI, Ubiquinol/CoQ10 plasma levels do not form a negative feedback loop in the body. It is a common misconception that all metabolic pathways are subject to negative feedback loops. This is not the case and I think that public view comes from hearing / reading much of the negative propaganda around anabolic / androgenic aids.

If it's any help at all, my view would be that even if CoQ10 isn't a cure (there aren't any Oral cures anyway) but MAY help in some as yet unknown way, you have nothing to lose by taking it but may have something to gain
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NeoV

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2016, 04:09:04 PM »

It is really hard to know what to trust, though I tell a lot of guys to trust themselves first.

If I had Peyronie's and I was a bushman, I would probably stop sex and masturbation completely, talk to a shaman, and wrap my penis with some magical leaves and let it be. Ironically that would probably put me in a better place than I am now. I know other men feel the same and even regret most treatments they have had!
Even funnier, how often do you think a bushman masturbates anyway? How often does he sit? I can almost assure you if a bushman had a bending penis in the first place, which I doubt he would, the treatment would be abstinence, traction, and topical stuff which would probably put him in a better place than many of us. For me to get improvement, I really had to trust my own body and do "what worked" rather than what was shown to work, granted that what I'm saying here could cause major harm to a small % of people who take it too far, with things like jelqing etc. Most of you understand I'm not advocating that at all, and am coming from the opposite side of the argument entirely. But you see how confusing this is when trying to make a point.

*I do recognize there is a genetic link that would and could ravage a bushman's penis regardless of what he did or didn't do. Just trying to prove a subtle point. And I'm not saying I wish I was a bushman, though maybe I secretly wish I was a little : )

Over trusting medicine and science was a big mistake for me in more than one aspect of my life. My penis would bend almost 360 degrees after masturbation when I was only 17 or even younger, and I just thought if the urologist clearly told me "there's nothing wrong, you don't have Peyronie's", I could just continue my ways without it causing permanent deformity. How could I know what was happening if everyone said it was fine? This probably hurts the most, for all of us, the confusion and not knowing. That being said, I f@#$ing love science, just not the politics and money involved.

As for CoQ10, in 2014 I put these together.
Coenzyme Q10 / Uniquinol Studies - Peyronies Society Forums

As you can see, there is only one study on Peyronie's, but there seems to be some very good effects on arterial health, as revealed in the Peyronie's study, as well as some antifibrotic properties.
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Perspex

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Re: CoQ10 and Ubiquinol
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2016, 06:13:30 PM »

Hey gutted

I think I have a pretty normal level of caution about something called CoQ10.... a strange sounding powder that I only heard of a few days ago... that people are suggesting I ingest. I am trying to find out whether I feel it will help. I don't want to do it blindly out of fear, or out of relative ignorance. That's why I am extremely grateful for the links and tips you guys are giving me.

I always eat well with fresh ingredients... and rarely eat artificial additives. I'm trying to be aware of what i put in my body.

this powder costs a fair amount of money and I have not yet found out how this stuff is synthesised. I guess its not actually from watermelons.... I need to learn more about it before I use it.

NeoV - Again, thanks for the link. I'll read in the morning ... looong day

your comments make me realise that i don't want to act out of fear... or too hastily... To trust my own instincts, while taking in to account as much of the available info as possible and experience of you guys... that's the best I can do. But there is allot of info! :)

For me, this is not a small decision

thanks for taking the time to reply to me
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