stupid but important question

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yyy

I'm always wondering this: the fibrosis is a health tissue become a big scar, hard like a "stone"; if xiapex dissolves the tissue you should have lack of tissue, like a hole inside, something missing. Is that correct?

james1947

I think the plaque is softened, not dissolved.
This is the reason people are not reporting nothing like having a hole inside.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

gringoviajero

YYY - It's "Xiaflex."

The collagen fibers are sent to the penis and form a matrix, an internal scar.  Xiaflex is a protease, an enzyme that breaks down protein.  It doesn't "eat" the plaque; if it did it would eat your penis.  Xiaflex softens the collagen fibers forming plaque allowing us, to a limited degree, stretch it.  

A good question is: do these fibers replace elastin fibers or are they "plastered" on top of the existing tissue.  If this excess collagen (because collagen already exists in the penis) REPLACES elastin, then a chemical that removes it would, as you say, create a "hole."

As Dr. Lue has said in a video interview you can find on the Forum, we cannot simply remove the plaque; it will always be there, or at least until someone figures out a way to safely remove it.  For the moment, all we can do is soften and stretch it.  We're not working with the cause of Peyronie's, we're working with the symptom, the effect.

yyy


yyy

and you are wrong by saying the plaque can't be dissolved. It happened in a few cases with different drugs

gringoviajero

I wasn't aware of either of those facts; thank you.  Do you recall any one of the drugs that dissolve plaque?  I wonder what keeps them from damaging adjacent healthy tissue???

gringoviajero

The question of the possibility of plaque being dissolved rather than simply softened is an important one.  How we imagine what is going on in there affects our approach to the problem.  Our understanding of the process, even as laypersons, is important, and I daresay more than one Forum reader has had the impression that he knows more about this disease than his doctor.

After YYY's assertion that collagen fibers have been dissolved by some drugs, I searched Google Scholar for papers on the pathophysiology of the disease.  This one by El-Sakka, although certainly too technical for most of us, has some descriptions the layperson can understand that describe what's going on in there.

The pathophysiology of Peyronie's disease

For me, a good quote from the paper is this: "The end result is an excessive production of collagen fibres ascribed to a prolonged inflammatory response, with degradation of the delicate network of collagen and elastic fibres."  Those "extra fibers" are layed down atop an existing collagen-elastin matrix.  Our pre-existing collagen-elastin composition, in its original ratio, is still in there – nothing's been removed – but the new collagen, spread willy-nilly like spackling over a crack in the wall, prevents our tunicas from expanding fully.

For this reason, we cannot just squirt in some collagen dissolving chemical; it would destroy our penises, which, as I recall, are 90+% collagen.  Elastin makes up a very small percentage of the tunica.  For the foreseeable future, doctors are forced to deal with the new collagen layed down; they can't just get rid of it.  Chemical approaches to soften collagen are indiscriminate; if it's collagen, it's softened.  Xiaflex softens not only the new "scar", but any collagen it touches, and that's OK.  If we soften, stretch, increase the length and MAINTAIN the length, we can relieve the restriction.

This thinking is behind my approach, based on studies in athletic medicine with tendons, of preheating, stretching and chilling the penis: to soften, realign and then fixate the collagen fibers.

This is the link to Dr. Lue's 2010 interview wherein he says we cannot remove the plaque:
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Jonbinspain

Essentially, for those not aware of this, it's important to realize that Peyronies plaque is scar tissue. As such it is not some hard lump of collagen formed ON the tunica, but has actually become part of the tunica. Like any scar tissue it has replaced the healthy, normal tissue that was there.  

james1947

yyy

Can you point please to the posts regarding dissolved plaques by different drugs?

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

gringoviajero

As those of you who read my posts on my experiments with bromelain know, Mediwound, an Israeli pharma, has applied for a patent for a bromelain-based injectable compound for connective tissue disorders such as Peyronies Disease.  I remember reading in their appllication that their compound, which originated as a burn wound debridement agent, dissolves "devitalized" tissue but spares healthy tissue.  The app can be found here:

http://www.google.com/patents/WO2013011514A1?cl=en

Go down to the section "Detailed Description of the Invention" and read the first 3 paragraphs.  I believe there may be hope for a new drug that dissolves the "bad collagen" as YYY suggests but leaves the good.

Pey-penis

This reminds me the method of removing dead tissue from the wound using a blowfly larvae. They eat up only dead tissue without taking the live. One would have to find an enzyme or something similar that dissolves the bad collagen and leaves the good one. Serrapeptase is suspected to do this but if it is true?

Freemason

Guys...im not doing well..severely depressed. Prob need to get help.  

Crooked_Stick

Yea many of us are familiar with Mediwound and their bromelain based drug, there is no timeframe for trials in the near future...I've tried contacting their IR but they won't respond....it could be a loooong time before they have a product available...... it does sound like exactley what would work
Born 1960, Diagnosed 2013
Initial 40 degree bend, 1" loss, Xiaflex 3 rds of 2 injections
Current 25 degree bend, no palpable plaque, 1/4" loss
VED 5-6 days/week, traction daily,
TRT 20 ml twice weekly, Cialas 3 mg - No ED - Doing Well!

Jimbruski

Hey Freemason,

What's up.  You say your not doing well but I couldn't figure why by reading the posts.  Severe depression is certainly no fun and yes you may need some help.  PM if you need to talk further.

Jimbruski