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buscador

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Modeling after Xiaflex
« on: November 05, 2015, 03:39:57 PM »

Hello, the Xiaflex Patient Guide says that patients should perform (one to three days after the second injection) the following at-home penile modeling activities for the 6 weeks after each treatment cycle:

1-Penis stretches: Grasp the tip of your penis with the fingers of one hand and hold the base of your penis with the fingers of your other hand, gently pull your penis away from your body to its full length, hold the stretch for 30 seconds. Do this stretching 3 times each day, only when the penis is NOT erect.

2-Penis straightening: If you have spontaneous erection, not related to sexual activity, attempt to straighten your penis by gently bending the shaft in the opposite direction of the curve, but not so forcefully so as to produce significant pain or disconfort. Hold the penis in this more straightened position for 30 seconds. Do this straightening ONLY ONE TIME each day. If you do not have a spontaneous erection, do not attempt the penis straightening activity.

Please, could some of the forum members that had done (or are doing) the Xiaflex treatment, report on this topic if they have followed exactly that modeling activities, or have followed a different daily routine (in that case, describe it)?
Could you also report your improvements, and if you got in-office penile modeling (describe procedure)?

The purpose of this topic is to find out if there is any significant relation between the kind of modeling performed (also the timings) and the curvature reduction.

Thanks a lot in advance, and sorry for my English.

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Head Up

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2015, 06:01:54 AM »

After my first round of shots, I did modeling along the lines of what the xiaflex guide recommended. I did have curve reduction upon measurement before round 2. After round 2, I had a pretty bad reaction and didn't do any modeling once the pain subsided. Low and behold, no curve reduction after round 2. So here I am after round 3. The farther I get away from the last injection date, the more modeling I perform. I'm probably doing 5 stretches for longer than 30 seconds per day and will do the erection straightening when the non-spontaneous erection occurs. You just have to be careful not to overdue it. Modeling to the max though may produce the best results.

And the modeling isn't just supposed to be stretches and straightening. My curve is to the left and up, each probably around 30 degrees. After round 1, the in-office modeling I received was basically a strenuous stretch in the exact opposite direction of the curve. I'm trying to do this as much as possible because maybe that's why I had good results after round 1.

I've read in a few posts here that some guys will do aggressive modeling and have actually felt the plaque split/break apart leading to much better results. My advice? Do what your body can tolerate, and don't overdue it.
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james1947

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2016, 10:59:18 PM »

Posted by Dusty1234
Quote
I would urge those who are about to do it to do several things.

1. Get it done sooner before the plaque calcifies. It feels like my doctor sticks a needle in a bone inside of my penis when I get the shot. Imagine that. It's awful. The softer the plaque the better.

2. Don't have sex too soon after shots. Listen to your body.

3. Wait til most of the swelling has gone down to start traction, modeling, and VED.

4. After your shots, have your doctor wrap your penis from tip to base but not so thought that you can't pee. Leave that in place for at least 24 hours and when you take it off have another wrap ready to go. Quickly clean it and then stretch it out to re-wrap it immediately. The medicine is weird and causes so much awkward and potentially painful swelling. Leave it on for 24 hours! Trust me.

5. Have faith. It may look worse before it gets better but in a month it may look an incredible amount better. Be patient. Listen to your body. Don't overdo it.  Be aggressive but smart in your therapy. If something starts to hurt, stop it.

6. I wish you all the best of luck. It does get better. My penis is now working as well as it did before it started.

One final comment. When this began almost two years ago, I had two plaques getting progressively bigger. One was at the tip, which I still deal with; the other was about halfway up my penis shaft. It was always smaller, but it was definitely there. We never injected that one but since my first round... That plaque has completely disappeared. Nobody can explain that, but the other one wasn't going anywhere so I'm glad I've kept doing this. All in all, do whatever you think is best and try to avoid surgery at all costs.
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gringoviajero

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2016, 09:56:05 PM »

Hi James, glad to see you're still active here.

I'm contributing because today I had my 4th injection, #2 of the 2nd cycle, and there was much discussion with Rafael Carrion that may be of interest to members.  I have soft plaque, which I once thought an advantage.  I now realize it is not.  It is difficult for the doctor to know where to put the needle.  Carrion said my plaque was atypical: not hard but very dense and covering a very large area, the entire side.  He said it was like having an Achilles tendon in the penis.  Yesterday was shot #3, and he was very aggressive.  Today, for the first time, he gave me a local anesthetic and then he really went to town, fanning out the injections over a broad area. 

As you know from my other posts, I injected myself with a bromelain compound last year with very good but temporary results.  This experience aided the doctor, because we could discuss the mechanics of getting the needle in the right spot.  Today was the most difficult and painful day, but he's optimistic that a good share of the drug made it's way into the plaque.

So for those of you with soft plaque, you will have a different path to take than those guys with a lump, a "target."  And as for modeling, we had a lengthy discussion of the protocol.  Because so much was at stake in getting FDA approval, the modeling protocol was intentionally very cautious.  The fact that only 5 guys had ruptures out of 1000+ tells you something.  And as for my question, raised in another thread, of the activity period of the enzyme: it is indeed active from the outset.  These two facts, that the drug is immediately working when it enters the body, and the modeling protocol is extremely conservative, will help you decide how you approach your modeling.
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james1947

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2016, 11:01:46 PM »

Just from time to time Gringo :)

James
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Jimbruski

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2016, 12:25:22 AM »

Hello All,

A newbie, and have spent the past three evenings reading posts and threads.  I've read some very useful and meaningful things regarding peyronies.  I'm guessing that this is the best group to ask my question of....

History:  Have had peyronies for over a year and most recently finished my second round of Xiaflex treatment along with the instructed modeling.  I actually did more modeling than my urologist suggested.  I have seen no improvement at all.

My peyronies was left curved close to 90 degrees and remains the same today.

I was referred to Dr. Lue at the UCSF Medical facility for further treatment with my urologist last words being,"probably reconstructive surgery" ringing in my ears.

I'm not scheduled to see Dr. Lue until July 2016.  I spaced my appointment out a ways so that I might have time to gain as much insight into this disease as possible.  Fortunately this sight has helped me immensely, but still,  from the forums perspective, and experience, is surgery really my next option?  I've read the posts on traction devices, oral medications and VED's but really am not sold on any of those being able to improve my situation any more than my Xiaflex injections and modeling.  Am I mistaken here?

I hope this post is in the right category and certainly welcome your responses and experiences.

Thanks for your help,

Jimbruski
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james1947

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2016, 03:53:20 AM »

Jimbruski

You have said that:
Quote
Have had peyronies for over a year and most recently finished my second round of Xiaflex
In my opinion, your uro started you on the Xiaflex too early. In most cases within one year you didn't past the so called "Acute state"
Again in my opinion, try VED, Pentox and low dose Cialis before running to surgery.
Dr. Lue is one of the bests according to the forum

James 
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Jimbruski

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2016, 10:43:03 AM »

Thank you for your reply.  And thank you for being straight forward with your opinion.  This is exactly the type of answer I was hoping for.  It is also, as I said, why I didn't go directly to surgery.  I will certainly talk this over with my local uro before seeing Dr.Lue since I will likely need a persc for the Pentox and Cialis.

Jimbruski
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james1947

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2016, 01:05:27 PM »

Jimbruski

Get a prescription for VED also, they are expensive.
Not for Peyronies (not approved by most insurance companies for Peyronies), ask the VED for severe ED you have, even if you don't have  ;)

James
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gringoviajero

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex - homemade VED
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2016, 03:58:39 PM »

I made my own VED quite simply and inexpensively.  Click on my name to see my other posts, and you should see the one where I explain what I did.  Or you can p.m. me, ORRR I can stop being lazy and explain it all again here.

Later – I found it:

By the way – For you guys wanting to try a VED but hesitant about the expense, I've made a very good one cheaply.  Get an aquarium vacuum tube; they come in 1.5", 1.875" and 2".  Get a VacuuVin manual wine sucker and stopper.  The stopper fits the tube nozzle perfectly.  The tricky part is finding a rubbery material and glue that will stick it to the tube mouth to form a padding and seal.  I used a Theraband latex exercise band.  Rubber cement may work, but you may have to experiment with glues.  It's very cheap and works fine.  I've been using mine for a year.

Message me if you want more info.  Costs pennies.
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Jimbruski

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2016, 05:22:58 PM »

Thanks gringoviajero!  They are expensive so this may help out.  How do you gauge the vacuum quantity?

Jimbruski
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gringoviajero

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2016, 05:48:36 PM »

If you mean circumference of the tube: you'll want it a little bigger than you are.  1.5 and 2" are the most common sizes.  It was a Goldilocks thing; one was too small and the other too big.  Eventually I found the 1.875" at one of the pet chain stores.  I was looking for 1 3/4" but didn't find it.  The 1.875 has worked out fine though.  It's strong enough to hurt you, so no worries on suction power.  You'll have to toy with making the rubber gasket.  I used 2 layers of the Theraband latex, cutting them out like a cookie cutter.  You'll figure it out.
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Jimbruski

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2016, 05:57:44 PM »

No, I mean the amount of vacuum (suction) that this supplies.  VED's I've viewed have a vacuum/pressure gauge attachment so that you can monitor and not overdo the vacuum pressure and cause injury.

Jimbruski
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gringoviajero

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2016, 07:54:55 PM »

Don't worry about that.  Just use your sense.  You're not going to do any damage unless you pump it to the point where it's very painful, and you're not going to do that.  If anything puts you in much pain – VED, stretching – you're overdoing it.  Just trust your own judgement.  But I will say that without Xiaflex, using a VED alone, will probably have little effect.  My doctor agrees that, in the absence of anything better now, the only way to attack this thing is chemically.  You could hang a bowling ball from a tendon or cartilage and you won't see much lengthening.  It's tough stuff.  That's why I risked the bromelain experiments.  (See my other posts on bromelain.)
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Jimbruski

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2016, 09:48:28 PM »

Thanks gringoviajero.  I'm beginning to understand this whole concept of VED and injections.

Jimbruski
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itsme

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2016, 05:04:40 PM »

Jimbruski, I`ve been talking to Egydio, who is known for have improved grafting technique and he told me that the surgery won`t restore your tissue like it was before, he even told me some people use artificial fill on penis tunica after surgery, for those with pronounced hourglassing, which I would never to do even if I needed to. I`ve been reading this form for 7 months and Xiaflex seems to be really working for many people here. Try to take some time like james1947 told you, while taking pentox and Vit E and then you try Xiaflex again again to get trained with VED. I wish we had Xiaflex in Brazil, but I called them and they will not be selling it here so soon. Among other reasons I am even studying to get into the federal medicine college now, with that I hope I will be able to afford what I need to if I have more problems in the future and even take the Xiaflex treatment. Good luck buddy! ;-)
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Jimbruski

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2016, 03:47:40 PM »

Itsme

I just saw your post.  Thank you for the additional info.  I'm going to go ahead and try your and James1947's suggestion.  Do I need a prescription for Pentox?

Jimbruski
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gringoviajero

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2016, 08:55:23 PM »

Here's something that will scare the bejesus out of you.  I returned this afternoon from Tampa General Hospital where I had to undergo emergency surgery for a fractured penis.  Following use of my VED, including the lateral vacuum, of which I wrote here on the Forum somewhere, 48 hours after my injection, I developed a large lump. I finally went to my G.P. and he diagnosed a hematoma, but did not think a fracture.

However my Peyronies Disease doc in Tampa insisted I go to the ER for an MRI to play it safe.  I live 85 miles away but made the drive at his insistence.  They took me right in and scanned.  "Fracture" was the clear indication requiring immediate surgery.  I nearly fainted as it could mean lifetime impotence.  The MRI showed a 1.5 cm tear in the tunica.  They put me in surgery right away.

When I awoke, the surgeon said I was a very rare case and the team of 3 doctors were amazed to find after "degloving" me that it was indeed only a hematoma.  All indications on the MRI pointed to a tunical rupture, however.  My relief was nearly as overwhelming as my diagnosis before surgery.

The mutual agreement is that I began VED use too soon after injection.  All I really did was rupture a vessel, but it could have been much worse.  I'd discussed the "lateral vacuum" idea with the doctor, and he thought it a novel approach.  I think the only problem was that I didn't wait long enough to try it.  Now I have to forego all modeling for a couple of weeks, which unfortunately may take me outside the Xiaflex "window of opportunity."  This may also mean I won't get my 4th and final cycle.  But at this point I'm just glad to not have a fractured penis.
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Lucketts

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2016, 09:36:14 AM »



Understandable how you would want to start VED right away, since we think that the Xiaflex is most active early.  I guess next time you wait the 2 weeks bef any VED and traction  Real glad to hear that it was a false positive and that you're okay.  Must have been real freaky.  I imagine though that it is safe to be a little more aggressive in hand modeling than the protocol allows  After all, the uro really yanks and bends it during the in office modeling, just 1-3 days after the second injection
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gringoviajero

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2016, 10:16:24 AM »

You're absolutely right; precisely my point. My carelessness doesn't alter the facts. The doctors are told, or already know themselves, that strenuous modeling is necessary to effect change. The protocol was designed to win FDA approval as quickly as possible. That means minimize any negative events.

I've seen photos of my degloved penis. How many guys can say that? Creepy! What we now know happened is what I suspected at the beginning: the suction I applied to the side, where my indent is, to pull it out, puckered the skin and broke a vessel. Blood pooled and was trapped in the space between the skin and Buck's fascia. (It had to come out anyway, so it wasn't unnecessary surgery.) As the cowboy said when asked why he jumped in the cactus, it seemed like a good idea at the time. Even Dr. Carrion thought it might work.  Well, so much for that approach.

And remember it was not VED use per se, it was the application of suction over a small area to the side of the penis. I used a 1/2" PVC pipe fitting attached to a VacuuVin wine sucker. I'd also used the VED normally without a problem.  If I had it to do again, I'd use the VED later, maybe a week after injection, but I think 2 weeks is too long.  And I would abandon the idea of suctioning from the side; it just draws up the skin and not the tunica. The current VED trial in the UK should show something, but again, those guys are playing it very conservatively.  They don't even begin modeling until 2 weeks after injection. I wish some of these trial scientists would get Peyronies Disease and we'd see how they approach it then.
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billy80

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2016, 08:28:51 PM »

I just completed my first round of xiaflex, and boy is the bruising ugly!!! Pain is minimal, and I am going to start the modeling tomorrow exactly 2 days after the second injection. Couple of questions, did anyone do more then the recommended modeling of stretching(3 times/day)
and the bending(1 time/day)? Also with the bruising I am going to follow the exact rules of no intercourse for 2 weeks, but is there a danger
of rupture if I perform more stretches then recommended. Are ED drugs needed after all this is over or do the strength of ones erections stay after treatment. I appreciate the help/info, and am glad I found this site.
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gringoviajero

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2016, 09:57:48 PM »

The answers to your questions can be found on this board and the other Xiaflex boards.  There's a wealth of info here.  Basically, my opinion and that of a number of others is that the protocol is much too conservative and more aggressive modeling is warranted.  Note, however, that I commited an error 16 days ago and paid the price, but you're not likely to repeat it.  Just read through the posts and you'll do fine.
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anewbie

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2016, 02:15:02 PM »

Anyone utilize a traction device, of any type, with Xiaflex, to have more "modeling" ?

If so what are the need-to-knows?
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itsme

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2016, 02:32:59 PM »

Jimbruski in Brazil you don`t need a prescription for Pentox, nor in Canada, by what people say here. It seems that you can get a pentox from an online store, research more through this forum and you will find the website. I have been taking pentox for 6 months now, it improved a little bit. There is a guy here that took it for 2,5 years and claim he is without peyronie`s now. I will try Xiaflexi n the end of this year. But I don`t know in which country yet. I have been wondering about UK, because I`ve heard it is a little bit cheaper there. Do you guys now if there is a best doctor for xiaflex? In which country? Tks.
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Rotis

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2017, 03:11:55 PM »

beside stretching I started to massage the spot that felt soft after the injection quite hard while stretching as soon as i could. It seems to have a great impact, maybe spreading the substance. I had 10 injections and gained 3 cm from the 4 i had lost. The last injection gave me more than half cm. I think I will take two more shots to see if I can gain the rest of what I lost
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usckid22

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2017, 04:16:13 AM »

Hello All,

How long did you all wait before starting the stretching and modeling. My URO said about 4-5 days. But i still see a little minimal bruising. The swelling has come down though. Should i probably wait a couple more days before i start doing any stretching? I just finished my first cycle (2nd shot) on monday.
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Seanwin

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2017, 09:22:02 PM »

I started a thread with a question about a  sonic toothbrush. I'll re ask here as this might be a better place. I've read somewhere about a guy who used a cheap sonic toothbrush to help break up his plaque. Not sure if it's real or not.

My question is does anyone think that using one when modeling after Xilaflex, would help move the drug around better? It seems that this might facilitate. Or at the least not hurt.

Just looking for advice and dialogue.

Thanks in advance
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NeoV

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2017, 04:46:56 AM »

I wouldn't use the tooth brush or "vibration therapy" with xiaflex, since you might end up removing the enzyme from the area it needs to be. The guy here who recovered with the toothbrush has no evidence that he broke up the plaque, not does he have any evidence of scar tissue since he never got an ultrasound. His theory has some validity if only because vibration has the ability to move inflammation or old blood out of the tunica. This is very important, whether you do it with anti-inflammatory supplements, traction, or VED. MANY men have bending without scarring shown on an ultrasound. This is what I consider pre-peyronie's deformity, which is from hematoma and damage. This will lead to scarring, though in some cases it will diminish or go away if you are lucky. Even if it does go away, the very fact that you have it means you are likely to have it again, and therefore are Peyronie's prone.

My penis has been bending after masturbation or sex since I was 18. This gradually lead to scarring, and it happened again in my late twenties in a different area. Take ANY bending very serious, and just because your toothrbush diminished your pre-peyronie's bending doesn't mean much, even though I thank that poster deeply for his discovery and contribution (no sarcasm here.)
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Seanwin

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2017, 04:51:57 PM »

Started treatment this week. First shot wasn't to bad. Dr bent the needle and said my plaque was incredibly hard. Second shot went well in the office. Three hours later I was so swollen and bruised I was a little concerned. Not going to fret as it is an invasive procedure. Day after is tender but doing better. Will keep you posted as to the outcome. Wish me luck because I've found the perfect girl and hope we can make a go of it.

Cheers
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Seanwin

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2017, 09:39:13 AM »

Almost a week since my first shot. I'm happy to report that about half the bend is gone. I had about a 60 degree upward bend. Now it's about 30. I did stretching on myself for almost 8 months before this shot. Not really sure if that had anything to do with this apparent success, but it didn't do any damage. I will continue to stretch and am scheduled for my next round in 6 weeks.
Good luck to all

Sean
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Seanwin

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Re: Modeling after Xiaflex
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2017, 10:52:21 AM »

Update:
I was thinking I should have put a little more information about the bigger picture on my situation. So along with the stretching, I have developed a lifestyle change. I lost 60 lbs, got buff and refused to eat anything not healthy. I eat organic as much as I can. When I eat out it's generally a high end restaurant that serves healthy organic dishes. I take CO-Q10, pentox, Vitamins C, B-12, E, Acetyl-L-Carnitine and prescription olmesartan medoxomil for  hypertension. I do a 30 day round of Testosterone supplements with 15 days in between. I workout 4 to 6 days a week. Lifting weights, spin bike and have toned up real nice.
Looking back about 7 to 10 years, I think I may have had trauma to my member doing a position with my partner where she was face down with a wedge under her hips. I would enter her from behind and after thrusting for a while I would start to rock up and down. Rocked her world but bent me pretty good. Not saying this was it, but it sure could have been. I remember being sore afterwards.
So after 2 shots I'm still bent but not as much. I modele 3 times a day and am looking forward to my next round.
My only real vice right now is I drink way to much. Working on getting that down. Having been depressed about all of this that's where I ended up. Drinking to much.
Good luck to all
Sean
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by scottslcut