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Author Topic: Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory  (Read 3020 times)

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MJohn

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Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory
« on: July 22, 2015, 08:10:57 PM »

Hey Guys; I am a long-time lurker and have learned a lot of invaluable information here and feel a kinship with everyone.  I am looking for opinions on a theory I have been working with in an effort to convince myself to try a run of low-dose Cialis.  The worst thing is that I will make my Peyronie's worse.  On another Peyronie's Site I also visit, the doctor that runs the site seems convinced that any PDE5 inhibitor can and has caused Peyronie's and he doesn't recommend anyone taking it at all.  He believes that taking these drugs causes usafe overinflation of the penis thereby causing inflammation.  There are also some posts on this site where guys swear that their peyronie's were caused by one-dose Viagra use.  So there's that; and it does make sense.  Conversely, as we know, there are studies showing anti-fibrotic effects of PDE5 inhibitors at low doses.  So my thoughts are YES, you pop a viagra or cialis for a wild Vegas-hooker night, and it overinflates the penis and leaves the body in hours (viagra) or days Cialis), there is no drug circulating in your system when the inflammation sits in days, weeks later. BUT with daily low dose, levels are constantly maintained in the body and will continue to treat the inflammation and the developing fibrosis.  What are your thoughts gentlemen?  Like I said I want to try it as it also has other health benefits and usually at a low dose is absent of side-effects but don't want to risk my condition getting worse.  It seems that mine is mild compared to some of you.  Any definitive empirical reviews you can share?  Thanks guys. 
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james1947

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Re: Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2015, 01:11:30 AM »

MJohn

As I have written just now on an other topic:
In my opinion, not Cialis and not Viagra are causing Peyronies. Too long lasting erection may cause.
I don't know who is the doctor you are mentioning and what he is promoting, but the leading Peyronies specialists prescribing Pentox with low dose Cialis.
But of course it is your penis, so you should do whatever you find the best. :)

James
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Jonbinspain

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Re: Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2015, 03:29:22 PM »

Personally, and I'm not a doctor, I think whoever said that is wrong.  And I would think that its a distinct minority opinion in the medical profession. To my knowledge, I've never heard of Peyronie's being caused by the use of PDE 5 inhibitors. To the contrary, in my view, anything that increases blood flow into the penis will only help.

That is, of course, providing that the penis is not abused by Vegas hookers, or by any other means. Now, that can cause Peyronie's! 
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MJohn

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Re: Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2015, 09:04:27 PM »

Doctor's name is Dr Herazy, he runs a similar website to this one with a forum, but he is the sole moderator and he also sells a line of supplements which is why I didn't want to list his site but he wrote a blog post and then in his general forum he talks about it a lot.  Supposedly he is a "leading" Peyronie's doctor.  What he says is why I am thinking it could hold validity for the once-in-a-while normal dose for sexual response, as the damage could happen and then the inflammation sets in once the drug has long been gone in the system so you don't reap the anti-fibrotic benefit. I know when I have taken viagra for before sex, it definitely makes my penis overall bigger than without it.  But this wouldn't be any different than VED would it?  Although again, VED therapy is not a one-off but is a constant.  What if that is the key? James, fellas?

Links to commercial site deleted by moderator - James
Please read the forum rules before posting!!!

on this link use ctrl-f for "cialis" or "viagra" and he has almost a hundred mentions being against it as in these excerpts:

"Drug induced erections can start Peyronie’s disease
Over the years I have communicated with many men whose Peyronies Disease started after a drug induced erection that stressed the penile tissues by greatly increased internal pressure.  This process would not be much different than taking a car tire that is meant to go no higher than 40-50 pounds per square inch during normal use, and over-inflating it to 100-150 pounds per square inch.  Because it is not built to take that kind of pressure, you could expect some problems to develop in using a tire that way.  Not much different with the penis."

"It is my further intention to prevent you from injuring yourself further with these erection producing drugs.
A penis that is predisposed to Peyronies in the first place cannot tolerate the kind of stress that these erections drugs create.  It is just like someone with asthma cannot tolerate dust, odors or smoke that does not bother other people.  If you already have Peyronies you should do everything you can to avoid any kind of stress to this tissue, including avoidance of erection producing drugs."

"I talk to a lot of men who are given a prescription for Viagra, etc. to help their sexual difficulty, and they instinctively know that this treatment does not make sense to them.  Yet, they are tempted to use the drug because of the promise of improved sexual performance; besides, they are also tempted because they feel, “Heck, my doctor would not do anything to hurt me, maybe it is OK to do.”  I would agree, your doctor would not want to hurt you intentionally.  Yet, we all know that tens of thousands of people are hurt each year by drugs that are given with good intentions and bad consequences.
In addition, I have talked to many men who have reported to me that they used these erections drugs many times, maybe for several months, with absolutely no problem.  The erections were “normal” and controllable, and everything was fine, and the sex was great.  Then, one night, one time, they took that same drug in the same way, and they got an erection that was unbelievably hard and huge, and they thought they were going to explode.  It scared the devil out of both partners.  A few days or weeks later – a curved penis and Peyronie’s disease developed."

"If you attempt to think independently and logically about what might happen to your Peyronie’s disease when these drugs are used, you should have no trouble understanding how this could work against you.  If your doctor can convince you that they are perfectly safe, then you should do what your doctor says to do. Just remember, who that penis is attached to if a tragedy happens.  Your doctor will shrug his shoulders; you will have a worse case of Peyronies Disease.
My opinion is that the use of Viagra and similar erection drugs could easily be worsening the very problem you are attempting to heal.   The use of these drugs represents a calculated risk that you are taking, and you should be aware of it"
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Nemo

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Re: Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2015, 11:05:04 PM »

In my opinion, that line of reasoning is fundamentally flawed. Viagra is in no way like inflating a car tire to double its capacity. All Viagra is doing is allowing your penis to achieve your best possible erection.  It's not as if it's "pumping" blood into the penis like air into a tire, it's relaxing smooth muscle to prompt a natural erection no fuller than you would have gotten when you were a young man, full of testosterone.  The notion that it's over pressuring it to near the bursting point is just fantasy, and a doctor (Herazy) should understand this.

I'm more tempted to believe some man who hasn't seen his penis fully erect in some time (maybe years) pops a Viagra and then discovers when fully erect he has developed Peyronie's.  But the notion of Peyronie's "causing" Peyronie's tissue just doesn't make scientific sense.  Most certainly not from over-stressing the penis. 

Just doesn't hold water.

Best,
Nemo
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james1947

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Re: Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2015, 11:49:24 PM »

MJohn

You are insulting this forum while writing:
Quote
..Dr Herazy, he runs a similar website to this one with a forum
His site is a pure commercial site!!!
And he is not a doctor even he is calling himself so!!!
Did you see any commercial links/posts on our forum? The answer is NO!!!
So how you can say his website is similar to ours?
Make a search for Herazy on the forum, you will get 37 posts, read them if you want to understand who he is and what his forum is!!!

James

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MJohn

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Re: Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2015, 12:14:53 AM »

james as a newbie sufferer looking to the internet for any info I can find to help my cause, I came across his site in addition to this one. Both have been helpful. How am I supposed to know he isn't a real doctor as you are alluding to?  He has what i think a legitimate theory and I came to this site looking for guidance and advice and support; that's what its for, yes?  You are too quick to "discipline" us newbies instead of provide the guidance we so desperately need. You also tell us to look in the forum when we post questions,  Have you tried to do that recently?  It's extremely convoluted and unlike other forums, the recent posts are on top of the chain instead of at the bottom.  I posed my theory and question and instead get "read the rules" and "he's not a dr" and yet that was not what I was looking for. I wanted people to chime in on their experience and opinions either way.  Thank you for making me now want to be a part of this community and you detract from what I see the purpose of this site; to offer information, guidance, and moral support to newbies going through this horrible emasculating condition. May be time for a new moderator.  Will be interesting to see if my response stays up or gets censored.  Please cancel my login.  I will go somewhere else for my questions
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MJohn

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Re: Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2015, 12:16:19 AM »

Thank you Nemo, that is the kind of answer and support for the answer I was looking for from this community. Cheers
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james1947

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Re: Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2015, 02:34:55 AM »

MJohn

If you come here to teach me how to moderate the forum, please write a PM to one of the administrators and propose them to dismiss me. They are: Angus, Hawk and LWillisjr.
Proposing you first to read the forum rules.
They are in place to keep the forum as it is, even you don't like it.


James
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Stabler67

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Re: Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2015, 06:22:52 AM »

MJohn,

I feel myself to be a fair minded person, so you should know that I read all the posts before making my own and I went to the internet to look up Dr Hearzy myself before deciding what to say, most of the sites that I wanted to visit came with a "warning" that they were not safe so I did not go to them the ones that I did go to were selling products which is fine however, our site does not sell products our gentlemen may tell you what works best for them but we don't try and sell you anything, and I did not find a site with Dr Hearzy that was similar to ours unless it was one of the ones that came with the "warning" I was not going there. Our forum is exceptional in that our help is completely free and  given from personal experience.

Your comments towards James were unfair.

Mamma
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LWillisjr

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Re: Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2015, 09:21:54 PM »

james as a newbie sufferer looking to the internet for any info I can find to help my cause, I came across his site in addition to this one. Both have been helpful. How am I supposed to know he isn't a real doctor as you are alluding to?  He has what i think a legitimate theory and I came to this site looking for guidance and advice and support; that's what its for, yes?  You are too quick to "discipline" us newbies instead of provide the guidance we so desperately need. You also tell us to look in the forum when we post questions,  Have you tried to do that recently?  It's extremely convoluted and unlike other forums, the recent posts are on top of the chain instead of at the bottom.

We may seem a bit short but those of us who spend lots of time supporting this site get a little tired answering the same questions. We do mean for this to be a supportive site. I agree that this site has become so full of information that almost seems like a library of congress now. But the search tool is very helpful in this case. A few searches on Dr. Hearazy would yield some "not so positive" thoughts.

The software engine for this forum is used by many other sites and is configurable. The order of the posts is a setting each member can choose for themselves.


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Funny9097

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Re: Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2015, 01:14:34 PM »

MJohn,

I used Cialis daily (perhaps every other day at 5mgs) and it was mainly on days when I wanted to have intercourse.

Over time I noticed 2 things -

a-It did not improve my erections/condition and potentially made it worse

b-Over time the erections /ability to achieve them I was getting from use of Cialis 5mgs became poorer. For example, for the first little while I could take a Cialis at the start of the evening and be good to go whenever for the remainder of the evening/night, as advertised. Also, I was super horny and it originally felt like a god-send - probably too much 'tire pressure' as the Doc alluded to but my partner loved it. However, say a month into it the effectiveness began to go down the drain. 


The other thing I noticed is that when I got off of the Cialis band wagon it wasn't like my condition had improved. From my experience it didn't 'fix' the problem in other words - rather, it temporarily made it go away almost like taking a drug that temporarily boosts one's Serotonin or Dopamine levels in their brain.


Personally, I think that overall the doctor's view/analogy is correct, though other people on this forum would disagree / contest this.
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drew67

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Re: Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2015, 05:46:27 PM »

Funny9097, those are very interesting observations. 

My questions to all:

Does cialis really lose it's effectiveness over time similar to N.O. boosting supplements like l-arginine
If one stops using the drug and then starts again a later date, does the drug still remain less effective than when one first starting using it?
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kuaka

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Re: Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2015, 01:45:08 PM »

Symptomatic treatments are just that.  They aren't a cure.  If your symptom is ED, an ED drug will help, as long as you take.  Many...if not most...symptomatic treatments lose efficacy with continued use.  I am on pain medication, and I intentionally cycle it in order to make it work better/longer.  I do one or two weekends a month without it.  I would consider an ED medication used for ED in the same fashion.  Use for a while, then leave it alone for a while. 

On the other hand, the Cialis taken with Pentox is more for plaque softening and overall circulation improvement...but even then it may be good to rotate between the L-Arginine and NoX supplements letting the Cialis get completely out of your system from time to time. 

Your mileage may vary.

kuaka
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skunkworks

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Re: Low dose Cialis Consensus/working theory
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2015, 03:06:11 AM »

PDE5 inhibitors have shown in studies that they improve erectile function even after you stop taking the drug, which essentially means they are not just a symptomatic treatment.

So far no study on Cialis has shown any evidence that you build up a tolerance to it.
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