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Author Topic: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use  (Read 3193 times)

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kuaka

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Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« on: June 17, 2015, 12:54:14 PM »

Just to keep this in our thoughts...

Those of us who view porn regularly and have experienced diminished or loss of morning wood, and other ED related issues need to at least consider the possibility that porn use is contributory.

At its worst, it can render one completely impotent...I know this from experience.

The loss of morning wood can be a contributor to Peyronie's as without regular expansion to its natural limit, the Tunica can be more subject to plaque buildup.  While I have no "hard" science to back the relationship up, anecdotally, I believe it true from my own experience and Peyronies Disease issues.

So, as part of the "treatment", removing all "causes" should be considered, and porn use should be considered as a possible "cause".

YMMV
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Nemo

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2015, 02:47:12 PM »

Kuaka, I don't mean to sound argumentative, and certainly all ideas are welcome, but I think you've become somewhat obsessed with "porn obsession." 

Many of us get on a kick believing this or that is responsible for our Peyronie's, and in all likelihood, in absence of a clear incident of injury, the truth is most of us will never know why we have Peyronies Disease. In all likelihood, it's written into our genes, and we're simply the worse off for it. But to draw a connection between porn viewing and Peyronies Disease is a bit of a stretch in my opinion. I understand you have had issues in the past with porn-addiction, and I commend your overcoming these battles - but often when we overcome a personal battle, we start preaching from the bully pulpit, assuming everyone is struggling with, or susceptible to the same demon.  In recent years, we've seen folks flog Propecia, low Testosterone, low Vitamin D, etc., etc. Truth is, porn is as easily accessible as air and water these days, which tells me virtually every male on the planet is viewing it regularly on their internet. However, we're not seeing any surge in Peyronies Disease cases that I'm aware of.

My point is only that we can become myopically obsessed with something and become a "preacher" on the subject.  Being a tea-totaller on Porn is absolutely your right, but I'd urge you to consider that you may simply be genetically destined for Peyronies Disease like so many of us (myself included). We all want something to blame - I know I do. But for many of us, we'd be better off looking for acceptance, and positive steps forward (which you are doing.)

Regards,
Nemo
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Skjaldborg

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2015, 02:58:18 PM »

I would second Nemo's response.

Yes, porn can be over-used and become a problem if it replaces intimacy in a relationship. However, if used in moderation for enjoyment and healthy masturbation, I don't see a problem with it.

I went through a separation and divorce just a few years after being diagnosed with Peyronie's. For a very long time I did not have a partner with whom to be intimate. I happen to think that regular erections and sexual activity are beneficial to a healthy penis. During this time, I occasionally used porn because I was not in a relationship. I think regular masturbation has been helpful to my continual improvement in terms of size and pain reduction, and pornography has been part of that.

It is up to the individual to decide if and how to use pornography. I do not think pornography per se can cause Peyronie's, unless one tries to imitate rough or dangerous positions they see in it.

-Skjald
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kuaka

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2015, 06:36:11 PM »

Not wanting to "preach" on the subject, and not saying that such was "the cause" in my case or others.  I'm not the only one here though who has had Peyronies Disease develop after "getting over" a significant masturbation habit.

There likely is not a single "cause", but...having gone through the Porn Induced Erectile Dysfunction AND penis injury, and now Peyronie's, I do not want the possible link between the habit and my current condition to be lost in the shuffle.  Weak or nonexistent morning erections are an early symptom of Porn Induced Erectile Dysfunction as well as indicators of possible physical issues.  It is all about penile health, and certain behaviors are bad for penile health.  Our prudish society just doesn't "talk about" such things, which is not a good idea.

By discussing the possible link, it is just another arrow in the quiver of things to change in order to mitigate this horrible issue.  Moderation in all things is key...and if this is an area which is being overused, there is more than one reason to reduce it...a potential link to Peyronies Disease being a major one.  This needs to be known and talked about in the Porn recovery areas more.  I have introduced the possible link to the NoFap group with 'hmm... I'll think about it' responses.  I consider it a very possible link, based on my own experience...and the worse part is that it is a link I foresaw.  Had I known then what I know now, it would have changed my approach to getting over the M habit significantly.  If talking about it helps someone else, then something positive is accomplished.
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curvedd1ck

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2015, 11:54:20 AM »

i'm gonna give porn a break for a month, i'm starting to agree with thread starter, i'd getting hard to get a random boner when i see naked women all day whenever i want (porn).

no masterbating, no porn , for at least a month and i'll see if i can report a difference. at the moment no morning wood and maybe ED on one side of shaft (but maybe it's in my head).
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kuaka

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2015, 05:32:52 PM »

I don't recommend you stop manipulating the tissue...masturbating.  Any micro injury you may have caused will potentially be allowed to scar over if you just cold turkey leave it alone.  You might consider not orgasming...at least not every time...but you should continue to manipulate the tissue.  That is what I would do differently in retrospect.
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scottslcut

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2017, 10:05:23 PM »

Its a shame this thread is from 2015...  All things in moderation.  Porn and masturbation are fine in moderation.  I enjoy both and have no problem with morning wood.  I just don't see the link.
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kuaka

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2017, 08:42:18 AM »

Some of the "sex research" done over the years had some dire warnings for the researchers.  Desensitization is a real thing, and if your "job" is to observe sex acts it can really have an impact.  Obviously, watching porn is something like being a "volunteer sex researcher", and therefore not much different.    Not laying "the" blame on my condition on this old habit, but acknowledging that it may be a factor. 
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JohnW

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2017, 09:25:27 AM »

1) This isn't a scientific study, merely the stories of thousands of men who have personally experienced he connecti on to porn and ED, in addition to other negative impacts men:
https://www.nofap.com/

It isn't preachy. It's just a website with a statement. For any who read, don't get bent out of shape (you are already there, that's why we're here).

2) Tons of scientific research on the male brain, ED, masturbation, porn -- is collected and discussed here https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/about-us

You can be an evangelist for masturbation here on the Forum. For some guys jacking off is their sacred ritual. That's their personal opinion, behavior, and rut of the guy.

If you're young the chances of you having ED before an older guy (like me) are increasing drastically Behavioral Sciences | Free Full-Text | Is Internet Pornography Causing Sexual Dysfunctions? A Review with Clinical Reports | HTML

Tychy

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2017, 10:30:31 AM »

Quote
One simple test healthcare providers might employ is to ask, “whether the patient can achieve and sustain a satisfactory erection (and climax as desired) when masturbating without using Internet pornography”. If he cannot, but can easily achieve these goals with Internet pornography, then his sexual dysfunction may be associated with its use.

This.

People are overthinking stuff. Masturbation is normal. Reward pathways are some of the oldest in the brain. Animals do it all the time and can still perform well.

Now what is different? Animals don't do 6 hour edging sessions and they don't have guilt about their own behaviour. If you feel guilt for masturbation, then stopping so will surely cure your negative association to it.

There are people who have an addiction personality. Those are also at higher risk of abusing drugs. If such a person is to flood his brain with neurotransmitters for hours with porn, it's an addiction.
For those people, nofap may help. Similar to alcoholics.
For all other people, depression, (performance) anxiety or fear of pain (peyronies) may be more fitting.

Just ask yourself: "does my masturbation have a negative influence on my daily life?"
If yes, consider above post, if not, fap away as all mammals do ;)
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JohnW

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2017, 10:14:21 PM »

Hehe... Tychy, that's one overly simple way of summarizing it.

I do appreciate your approach, unfortunately, most guys would argue that it's not that simple. And, thus, why men in ever-increasing numbers, and younger and younger in years, go for therapy.

John



Tsanchez12369

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2017, 11:42:35 PM »

Therapy for masturbation?
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Tychy

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2017, 12:52:56 AM »

Sometimes things are as simple as you make them, actually, MOST guys don't argue about this at all. And, thus, why men in steady numbers and of all ages, don't have a problem at all.

You're in an echo chamber. ;) Sampling bias.
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JohnW

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2017, 12:58:43 AM »

Reading before you post, tychy, can contribute to actual dialogue. If that's a goal. Maybe not so much.

Tsanchez: Therapy for the side effects, the undesirable consequences of masturbation.

See some of the medical papers, studies, and clinical comments in the two links I posted above.

Tychy

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2017, 01:22:16 AM »

I actually have read your linked paper and it was interesting. But as with meta studies, you have to read all the referenced papers. I'm seeing a lot of correlation and less causation in the argumentation. And a meta study can exhibit selection bias itself. Don't make me read all those papers and write an evaluation of every one :D

I'm just allergic against the "that's how it is" statements instead of "maybe? We don't know for sure" / "Evidence seems that's likely". That's not scientific, but belief (or religion). And it's contagious.
It's the same narration as "The one thing doctors don't want you to know about!"

Seen nofappers vigorously defending their belief, up to a point where people don't get a physical before starting their journey. Your last post just blew the problem out of proportion with "most", "ever-increasing numbers" and "younger and younger". That's my I was being salty ;)

Like I said. Self evaluation of the impact is important. Some may have a problem with this and then your approach is perfectly valid.

Edit: Masturbation and porn use are also not to be thrown in the same bucket. They are not the same.
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JohnW

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2017, 09:51:49 AM »

Tychy -- The clinical research paper I was referencing (Behavioral Sciences | Free Full-Text | Is Internet Pornography Causing Sexual Dysfunctions? A Review with Clinical Reports | HTML) provides actual data about the increasing numbers of men who end up with issues such as ED.

You were merely stating your opinion. Your opinion is less of an allergy, and more of an evangelistic adherent.

You may not like the data -- and you're entitled to that opinion as well.

One of the benefits of the Forum should be to provide awareness of data, and let men like yourself either be entrenched in, or form new opinions. Considering what's at risk (the male dick), promoting awareness of data is a good and reasonable thing. All variety of medical, scientific, clinical data is welcome.

That you are not a licensed physician on this Forum with the commensurate medical malpractice insurance spanning the nature of your opinions offered here is a reality. You're just a guy with an evangelistic opinion -- and that's great.

John

kuaka

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2017, 10:02:54 AM »

The theory behind Porn Induced Erectile Dysfunciton (PIED) is this:

There is a minor but real shot of dopamine when visually presented with a sexually desirable or receptive female.  With the advent of the Internet, it is possible to click from "new" female to "new" female quite rapidly, and this little shot of dopamine can be repeated many times a minute.  Over time, this desensitizes one to the normal progression of sexual excitement, and like any drug which causes a shot of dopamine, it needs to be repeated and increased in order to have effect.  Eventually, a normal sexual excitement progression is no longer able to be "exciting enough" and you are PIED.

That is pretty much it.  The cumulative effect of needing more stimulation in order to achieve orgasm can result in being too rough and injuring or adding to injury.  This is just one of the many ways to stimulate scarring of the Tunica which is the basic definition of many cases of this dreaded disorder. 

Of course dietary and environmental considerations must be taken into account as well, as Magnesium deficiency is prevalent in modern diet and a common factor in most if not all fibrosis conditions from PDS to Dupreynes contracture, Cystic Fibrosis and more.

Most of us cannot point to a single culprit, although some of us have a known historical injury, which can be the proverbial straw which broke the camel's back.  In any case, looking at all of the possible contributory factors is worthwhile.  I consider over use of porn and masturbation to be one.
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Tychy

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2017, 12:09:56 PM »

That you are not a licensed physician on this Forum with the commensurate medical malpractice insurance spanning the nature of your opinions offered here is a reality. You're just a guy with an evangelistic opinion -- and that's great.

Thanks John, you're welcome.

@kuaka:
I totally support that statement and the dopamine peak is a neurological fact. But because excessive masturbation with porn is bad, does not mean masturbation in moderation itself is bad (and that's what I'm feeling getting transported here).
Next thing I'm expecting to read is you're getting a curved back from that or are getting blind.

But this is an interesting theory. Even the authors of John's study correlated the rise in ED with the appearance of the "tube" sites, whereas pornography (in video format) was available through the 70s/80s. So we can hypothesize that choosing, say, five porn videos by random and only using those for masturbation should not lead to the PIED symptoms?

Quote
I consider over use of porn and masturbation to be one.
Agreed!
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kuaka

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2017, 04:18:19 PM »

There are two levels of the dopamine received by masturbating to porn.  The first is the little hit of "new", and that is what is new with internet porn.  Nobody could afford to have a collection of the latest magazines or movies and go from one to the other in rapid succession before the internet was added to the mix.  It is extremely easy to become "bored" and "click" to the next one with the internet.

If you wish to consider it as such, picking a longer video or a particular girl and staying with it/her for a while will eliminate the "new" aspect, and reduce any effect that aspect has.  This would return porn to what was available 20 years ago, before the "sudden" increase in ED.  Just saying.
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Tychy

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2017, 05:35:13 PM »

That's what I also suppose. People have masturbated to photos in lingerine magazines or seen "softcore erotic movies" for a long time.

Brace yourselves for augmented reality applications 🤦‍♂️

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nowhereman

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2017, 03:51:19 PM »

I think the men who don't "believe" in porn induced erectile dysfunction either don't watch enough porn for it to happen or are somehow immune to it for whatever reason. I have no moral problem with porn, indeed i like the extreme varieties. But I recognize for my own erectile function it is poison. I watched porn up to the age of 25 without ever really getting morning wood, and nary a random erection. Then I learned about PIED. It took about 6 months to get back to a reasonable condition and start for the first time in my life getting morning wood/random erections, Being able to get erections to fantasy or just touch. And just overall not having terrible ED. Then, being the wise man I am, a couple years later I started watching porn again. It took a very long time for things to get bad, but what I've noticed is the morning woods gets less and less and then SUDDENLY one day everything has gone to hell. Back to ED. I've done this a few times, I'm ashamed to say. The last time it took less than a month watching porn multiple hours a day though not quite everyday, to go from solid morning wood to utter ruin. Obviously only an addict would do things like this. So yeah if you can keep things to a minimum then all the power to ya but if you can't it's a long muddy road out of the ED swamp.
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JohnW

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2017, 10:04:26 PM »

Nowhereman -- That's more than opinion, that's first hand honesty. Thousands of men in other forums have provided similar testimonies on the correlation between porn use and their ED -- and their recovery once they stopped porn use.

There will be objectors, but it is stupid to object over first hand experience.

Lots of great quotes in your testimony.


Tsanchez12369

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2017, 03:00:43 PM »

Nowhere man, your post indicates multiple hours of day...it may be helpful to include the extent of the porn use and masturbation that was problematic for you whenever you post of the dangers of such.  Otherwise, many will interpret that your stating the use of porn and masturbation to any degre as causing ED.
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kuaka

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Re: Weak Morning Wood, Peyronie's and Porn Use
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2017, 04:40:46 PM »

At the very least, porn gives an unrealistic image of what women are able/willing to do.  Of course you can pay some women enough to do just about anything, and there are those with their own idiosyncratic ideas as well...but the "average" Joe winds up with a more normal woman...not triple D's, narrow waist and loves to deep throat.  Just the "out there" ideas will hamper a real relationship without the PIED aspect at all.  Porn has "come a long way" in the last 30 years...  :/
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