Pycnogenol + LArginine for Peyronie's disease

[Funny9097]

Hi all -

FIRST OFF I am posting here about this drug combination because I did not find a posting on it so please take the time to read the introduction about me and then move onto some of my questions/research!


I am a new member on this site. My story is that I have had severe erectile dysfunction for roughly 10 years now. I am currently 29. It's been very difficult. I have still not received an official diagnosis but here's my story -

I think I 'injured' myself about 10 years ago having intercourse. I didn't feel severe pain but the next day my libido was severey weakened. I have 2 hard placque like pieces on the back of my shift and some hard veins on the front. I suspect peyronies. I have been to doctors (family/urologist) but they haven't been much help. I am seeing one in a month and will press for a penile doppler ultrasound, etc. I also get hourglass shaped erections that eventually straighten out once enough blood is poured in (if I can get an erection via girlfriend and drugs that is).

I have severe ED now. Without drugs I can't get it up via masturbation and actually 'finished' the task with a flaccid penis. Very scary! I need some circulation to continue my relationship and cialis seems to be making my peyronies and circulation worse.

I just bought Pycnogenol and L-Arginine and will start taking that. When you google Pycnogenol it says it helps with various conditions such as osteoarthritis, varicose veins, blood flow and erectile dysfunction. They say if you take it in combination with L-Arginine it will really help increase the Nitric Oxide in the blood vessels as well. A side below suggests that in combination they 'help protect artery walls and support the overall cardio vascular system.

Links deleted by moderator - James
Links to commercial sites are not allowed on this forum


Question:

Do you guys feel this could be a good drug combo for peyronie's disease / what I'm going through or do you think it might exacerbate the problem further?

Why is this drug hardly ever mentioned on this website? Is there a reason why it isn't mentioned as a treatment option?

Has anyone had any success using this combo?

[wonderbread1662]

Hello Funny9097,

I have never heard of pycnogenol before but I am also very new to peyronies. Not sure if it has been discussed before but I don't see how it could hurt you or your condition (I'm Not a doctor). It might help you so you can try that. I have found that citrulline malate and acetyl-L Carnitine has helped with blood flow along with pentox in my experience.

I have only had peyronies for 3 months and only have trouble getting a full erection rather then none at all though. I have noticed that reduced sex/masturbation seems to help with erection quality. I know it sucks but you can try cutting down on the sex/masturbation. Stress and anxiety can also be playing a huge part in this along with the restricted blood flow that sometimes comes with peyronies. Since you have had ED for such a long time though I am not certain on what will help or not. I just thought I should give you some advice on what has been helping for me. Although it may not be as helpful as you would of liked. I'm assuming you have not checked out the ED part of the forum as that may help you as well.

[Funny9097]

Thank you for your response - I am at a bit of a loss as to what to do about my condition. I might try the combination you suggested.

I did the Pynogenol / L-Arginine combo for a few days but didn't notice anything signficiant so have returned to a low dose of 5 mg Cialis (trying to keep it to less than once per week and holding off on any masturbation or sex to improve erection quality). With my condition here is my intuitive perspective - I worry that an over abundance of increased blood flow to my penis / sex will not help my condition because the organic cause is not blood flow related (it's the 'congestion' caused by plaque with regards to Peyronies or a blood clot in the case of Penile Thombrosis). Therefore some Cialis (both to get erections and keep my relationship alive) is the best I can do with pauses of circulation/sex in between. I'm really in need of some assitance in how to attack the root cause though because my condition has deteriorated over the years and it's quite scary guys! .. I might might try the mix you have posted.  


It does suck man. I don't have curvature when fully erect but there are hard lump like spots on the inside of my shaft as well as some hard veins that are irritated (mainly when flaccid or a day or 2 after cialis and sex, in fact). As I said I'm going to see a urologist again next month  and will really emphasize the state of my condition and request a doppler ultrasound, etc.

The only concrete medical approach I have found (i.e., that attacks the 'root cause') is penile prosthesis if/when my condition has deteriorated to the point where my quality of life in relationships is too unstable on the sex front to have a somewhat normal social life. I often questions if that is not already the case and whether I should just push for this approach now.. though it's scary in concept.

If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know!

I feel for you if you have been diagnosed with Peyronie's 3 months ago. I just really hope these conditions can improve over time. At least unlike me you are attacking the problem now and did get a diagnosis.  

[wonderbread1662]

Hello again Funny9097,

When you injured yourself 10 years ago did you get checked out by a Urologist? When it happened did you hear a pop like sound and was there discoloration or bruising? You might of had a penile fracture which caused the plaque and like you suspect gave you ED. Out of all of those 10 years with ED did you not get an ultrasound? Your condition seems to be quite serious and I would assume that any urologist would cover all the bases on that front.

l'm single so I am not dealing with the fact that I have another partner that needs intimacy. That being said I can't imagine how difficult it must be to refrain from sexual activity with your girlfriend. But if you're saying that it seems you're already struggling with getting it up with pills and with irritated hard veins, then you need to stop all masturbation and sex to let your penis heal. You need to listen to your body man. You continuing this is most likely just going to cause more damage. Does your girlfriend know about your condition? You and your girlfriend should know that your health and well being comes first and should have a heart to heart talk on what you are going through. As for the urologist you should call them to let them know that this is urgent and to tell them you are in alot of pain. You may not be in alot of pain but it will help to get you in sooner. You can try my drug routine as it has helped for me. Have you looked up penile mondors disease? This could be why you have such enlarged veins. I think I might have that along with peyronies. It seems to be treated with abstaining from sexual activity. The plaque and mondors might be what is causing your ED.

Once again I am not a doctor and this is just speculation. At any rate when you go in to see your urologist you should try to get pentox if you can. There are some studies here https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,3180.0.html on pentox that you can show your urologist, along with good info on peyronies. For me I told him about theses forums and how many people suffering with my condition say that pentox helped them. He prescribed me some after that so it might help you as well. Also check out the resource library https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/board,10.0.html for more studies on treatments. As for any surgical procedures I don't have any experience or knowledge on that so I can't really give you answers with this. I do know that surgery should be a last resort and that you need to read up on that along with your surgeon as you only have one penis.

Hopefully other members who have gone that route can guide you. I know it seems grim and stressful right now but life tends to get better with time. It's full of ups and downs and you are at a down in your life. Try to get some treatments that don't require a prescription while you are waiting for your appointment. Call them each day or every other day to try and get an earlier appointment. Remember to make it clear that it is urgent. And hopefully you will have answers and be able to make a decision in time. It seems waiting is one of the hardest parts of this condition. Try to stay positive Funny as I feel you are going to be okay.

[Funny9097]

Thank you wonderbreat1662 for your replies.

Honnestly, I should have gotten on this forum ages ago and not listened to Urologists who basically gave my private a quick physical 'look' and ushered me out the door.

-I had a doppler ultrasound some 5 years ago but had too little circulation for it to work. The dumb urologist never bother with a 'doppler' one where one's private is erect. I WILL be making sure that I move forward with this at my Urological appointment early next month.

-When I had my injury I did not hear or notice anything that night. It was the next day that my private part simply when flaccid was roughly 1/2 in size with much less circulation. At first me and the girl I was with were optimistic thinking it would just get better over time, but it never changed. I just had less libido/circulation from then on and my condition has gradually progressed / worsened from there. I'm now at a bit of a 'climactic' point because of how much, particularly in the last 3 months in this new relationship, my condition has worsened which will at least force me into action and provide concrete syptoms for a stupid urologist, lol. I also have a great girlfriend which will help and feel relatively secure about myself and my ability to make another person happy. Also fortunate that I didn't drop out of school all these years; I have a decent job / stay healthy, etc.

perhaps there's light at the end of the tunnel for us..  

[wonderbread1662]

Hey Funny9097,

I wouldn't blame yourself about listening to the urologist. They are doctors after all who have dedicated many years of their life in specializng in human genitalia. Any logical person would listen to them. It's just a shame that they don't know enough about peyronies to be that helpful.

I'm happy to hear that you have a great girlfriend and job, as that will help alot i'm sure. I hope you get some answers from your appointment and keep us updated on your situation. I wish you luck and hopefully there will be a cure soon.  

[user of no names]

I try to take the most bioavailable version of supplements as it is more pure and less conversion needed within the body.  Here is what I take each day for rx/supplements.

-l citrulline 1500 mg-better version of l arginine with less stomach upset
-ubiquinol 200-300 mg-better than coq10
-pentox 200-300 mg

I would take cialis but my insurance doesn't cover it.  Pycnogenol is something I've looked at and may add in the future but need to read more about this.  Some other supplements I take are vitamin d3, b12, fish oil, selenium, n acetylcysteine, and magnesium.

[james1947]

user of no names

You are not taking 200-300 mg Pentox per day, isn't?
They are coming in 400 or 600 mg pills and is very not advised to broke the pills.
I don't know also if 200-300 mg will have any effect.

James

[Funny9097]

Thank you SO MUCH guys - for partaking in this dialogue / posting. It truly means the world to me and feel free to MSG me directly if you would like.

I do have a game plan - Currently, my girlfriend and I are 3 months into our relationship -

She is supportive. I'm playing it out over the summer and then if we aren't having sex (or making love) to have kids it's gonna have to be called out because I feel that my abilities in this department are 'finite' unless some miracle comes of trying a cocktail such as those described below. I might try to abstain from sex altogether but it's tough. All I'd pretty have to do is not take Cialis because otherwise it takes me a week or two to have any sex drive, Heh...

I am the type of person who hopes / expects the best and prepares for the worst / tries to have a contingency plan. As such I'm acting on the assumption that I will eventually, as my ED deteriorates, have to get a penile implant.

I'd like to continue taking the odd Cialis dose from time to time (not daily though). I might switch to 2.5 mg and see if it does enough just to add enough 'drive'. My worry with Cialis is (as I said below) that it adds blood flow but does not attack the organic cause of my condition.. that like inflating a broken balloon it might exacerbate the problem.

When I go to my Urologist appointment I can definitely already tell from your posts below that Pentox will be on the list.

Given that say ~1 1/2 Cialis' per week will also be on it, what else do you guys recommend?

Is this the best guys -

300 MG of Pentox (maybe up it if symptoms don't arise / as my body accommodate to 400-500 mg)
300 MG of Ubiquinol


Should I take anything else - I'm struggling with whether to add L Storyline or L Arginine to the mix - I don't know if you can take it in combo with Cialis. Also, whether I should or should not abstain from Cialis and/or all intercourse (which would be tough to impossible, particularly after a week of abstinence and the odd dose of Cialis from time to time).

[james1947]

Funny

I will chime in again even I think you didn't read my post bellow and I will start with Pentox:
I never heard of 200 or 300 mg Pentox pill. I don't say they don't exist, but most commonly they are coming in 400 mg, someone on the forum stated that he is taking 600 mg pills, so maybe have.
The best in my opinion will be 3*400 mg daily, you can get there slowly by increasing the dosage.
Daily low dose Cialis (2.5 mg if you don't have ED, 5 mg if you have) has shown positive effects of plaques softening in conjunction with Pentox. My own experience showed that also. And you will not become Cialis dependent for sure.
If you will invest some time to read the forum (including the library) you will understand that daily Pentox and low dose Cialis does attack the organic cause of my condition.
L - Citrulline Malate can take 3*750 mg per day also.
L - Arginine is lowering the blood pressure same as Cialis, not advised to take them together. You may try, but monitor your blood pressure daily. In any case, you don't need to take L - Arginine if you are taking L - Citrulline already.
I made a google search for Storyline online and didn't come out any medication, just some funny sites or wiki says Storyline may refer to...The plot or subplot of a story....
3*100 mg Ubiquinol daily is OK if you can afford it.

James

[user of no names]

I was wrong about pentox and take 2-3 400 mg pills a day.  I take this with ubiquinol because it seems to have synergy.  These pills are something I've been taking for 10 years and seem to help a lot.  I often take a double dose of pentox before climax to help with pain.

[Funny9097]

Hi guys - thanks again for partaking in this dialogue

I wil firstly respond to 'user of no names' -

I will be going for Pentox / giving it a shot if I can get my urologist to prescribe. My case is unique because I don't have any severe pain when I have erections (aches a little where there is 'blockage' on the hard lumps along shaft of penis but nothing crazy). My penis' veins also burn and feel irritated after sex / the following day with very very little circulation. As I said I typically need Cialis and to wait a couple days to initiated intercourse, have a sex drive, and maintain an erection. If I don't take Cialis I might be able to initiate intercourse but typically it takes 1-2 weeks of rest and then I last like 5 seconds, lol..

I might also take ubiquinol.


James - I did read your earlier post carefully as well as the most current one -

Based on what User of no names and yourself are saying it seems that about X3 400mg pills of Pentox a day is what I should work towards dosage wise.

I might start with 1 pill daily (perhaps 400mg instead of 300) to test how my body feels and up the dosage from there (say a few days in to X2 400 mg and then X3 400 MG).



How much Ubiquinol should I take daily? User of no names mentioned 200-300 mg - is this correct?

Current end goal is currently -     300 mg of Ubiquinol;  X3 400 mg of Pentox; 1500 mg of l citrulline; ad hoc doses of Cialis 2.5 or 5 mg (say like ~1.5 times a week / a bit of sex here and there)


This is going to be my 'attempt' at trying to attack the organic cause of my ED in a timely fashion before I opt to consider the Prosthesis route. Please let me know guys if you have any further insight into this formula and I hope it helps others as well. This is effectively going to be my 'blog' and I really hope whatever story/path my problem takes will help others as well, heh.


 

[james1947]

Funny

Good approach to start with Pentox (400 mg/2*400 mg/3*400 mg daily). Take always with meals and not later than 6 PM.
I was advising you to take 2.5 mg or 5 mg Cialis daily. You can find a lot of information on the forum why is good to take it.
To reduce cost, I am cutting the 20 mg (can be the 10 mg) in 4.
I increased my L-Citrulline Malate Complex intake to 2250 mg daily as the 1500 daily dosage didn't helped me.

James

[user of no names]

I usually don't get pain with erections but after climax and the aching can last for several days.  I would start out with 1-2 400 mg pentox a day for a week to see how it makes you feel then move up to 3 a day if you can tolerate it.  The pills can make your stomach a little upset so taking with food is the best way.  Adding 100 mg ubiquinol to each pentox dose seems to make it work better.  I have taken it later at night but sleep can be an issue.  I saw the study that was retracted on pentox but after using it for 10 years I am convinced they help.  They may not reduce curvature a lot but help to prevent further progression by softening plaques, better blood flow to the penis, and pain reduction.  Your flaccid state is softer.  This disease sucks but can be managed with the right plan.

Jesse

[james1947]

user of no names

Are you taking Pentox regularly for 10 years?
How much per day?

James

[user of no names]

I currently take 2 x 400 mg a day but add an extra pill if I plan on self pleasure or my glans is painful.  I started taking pentox in 2005 and was using 3 x 400 mg day but reduced to 1 x 400 mg per week for a couple years because of a ulcer and gastritis.  The stomach issues were from taking 12-20 x 200 mg ibuprofen a day for 6 years because of back pain.  I mostly have no issues taking pentox now but always make sure to take with some food.  The medication makes the pain tolerable and keeps peyronies disease from progressing.

Jesse

[james1947]

That sounds very different
I was thinking you are taking 2*400 or 3*400 mg per day fro 10 years.
Myself, after 3*400 mg daily for 18 months had to stop because of severe frequent flue.

James

[kuaka]

I never got much relief from ibuprofen at any level.  I was prescribed 800 mg x 3 daily for a while due to knee pain.  I won't take any nsaid at that level for long...I like my liver.

[Funny9097]

Hi all -

I want to provide you with an update on my current situation. Firstly, I am planning to give Pentox a shot in combination with Ubiquinol and L Citruline or Arginine. Thank you for your feedback all.


One thing I should mention in addition is that for the past roughly 2 weeks I have taking Pycnogenol and L Arginine daily. On days where I take 50 mgs a day + 1.0 grams of L Arginine and then later in the day if hanging out with girlfriend that night will do a second dose of 75 mg of Pcnogenol and 1.5 grams of Arginine.


In comparison to taking a 5 mg Cialis (having not taken Cialis in a few days) the effect of the Pycnogenol + Arginine is much weaker. About 40 mins to an hour after a taking this you do get a bigger libido and in my case were I to immidiately have sex at this time it would be effective. That said compared to Cialis I don't get a 'sudden' erection for 3 hours at the touch of my girlfriend, etc. Also, in the middle of the night / the next day I just feel like I have a slightly better blood flow/ability to get it up. I'm not super horny but I feel that perhaps given I have something like Peyronie's disease this is more sustainable long term than Cialis (does not give me a huge unnatural rock hard erection so maybe it damages less..)

I think it's important to share because from my research Pycnogenol and Arginine combo doesn't look too bad in terms of helping boost erections for people with Peyronie's / penile thombrosis, etc. I'm sharing a link below that highlights some of the apparent studies on the benefits of Pycnogenol + Arginine (perhaps a little biased). Personally while Cialis has given me side effects (My dick feels like crap for like 2 days after having used it / 'spent', I sweat a lot, etc.) so far I have not had any crazy symptoms via pycnogenol use.

Most importantly my erections are somewhat present but I'm not like a 18 year old horny schoolboy on this drug. I feel I'm giving my girlfriend a more realistic picture of 'me' that I could live up to a little more sustainable over the next year, etc. (our relationship was almost entirely predicated on sex - it might not work out but this phase where I really cut back on Cialis and flirt with the idea of a prosthesis will be the real test).


Anyhow all - some of the things Pycnogenol/Arginine combo allege to do include :

Reduce Leg Swelling; Reduce Symptoms of Osteoarthritis; reduction in arthritic pain; Improvement in skin elasticity; Reduce symptoms of venous insufficiency; Improved blood flow; Improved erections.

Here's a link outlining this in further detail -

Pycnogenol - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects | Examine.com



While not a cure or anything based on the above this substance might be very good for people trying to help their peyronie's disease and maintain erectile health/a sex life. Examples - I've read that anything that helps with inflamation and arthiritis will be ideal. I also think I have some degree of venous leakage so anything that might mitigate this / 'venous insufficiency' is great. In a nut shell I would be super happy to have an erection booster that might also help to flatline and potentially reduce peyronie's disease / my erectile problems by reducing inflamattion, etc. as this has not been my experience with Cialis so far.


Also, other benefits mentioned by using this substance are improved cognition, help with ADHD (I have this a bit) and a claimed antioxident that will help with overall health and lifespan. In fact, it's laregly used for non ED / Penile health purposes. From my experience after getting in the habbit and using it for a couple days there are little to no negative symptoms. I think I had a bit of a stomach ache the first day (I took 75 mg and 2.0 gms of arginine that day) but other than that it hasn't effected me negatively at all.




Questions:

A) Would you add this to your 'cocktail'? Anyone appreciate this post?

B) What do you think about this product based on this information? You can google for more detail. If you do try it please post to let us know if it's proving useful to Peyronie's / ED.

C) Anyone have any negative experiences with Arginine/Citruline and Pycnogenol combo? Are there any red flags this community thinks I / other users should be aware of?

[kuaka]

I appreciate the link.  It appears to reasonably non-biased information. I will be adding pycnogenol to my mix at first opportunity.  Anything anti-inflammatory is good at this point, as well as circulation improvement.

[Funny9097]

Just an update for everyone -

I have been taking 25 mg of Pycnogenol + 500 mg (.5 grams) of L-Arginine daily around supper time.

I have the same symptoms, etc. but it has provided me with the humph to have a solid sex life with my girlfriend. Have not taken Cialis in like 2 weeks, which even when using 5 mgs came with some side effects and in my case caused unhealthy erections that I feel were making my condition (some Peyronies disease / venous leak / Penile thombrosis) worse.

I haven't experienced any nasty side effects from using this combo.. and it supposedly does not have a negative impact on inflammation. Other than that I 'quit' sugar and am eating a very healthy predominantly (though not entirely) plant based diet.

[james1947]

I made a web search for Pycnogenol as I would like to replace the 50 or 100 mg Viagra I am using for sex.
What I found from reading on the subject is much higher quantities to help with ED than 25 mg Pycnogenol + 500 mg L-Arginine.
* Pycnogenol 100 mg, L-Arginine 5 gram, L-Citrulline 1.5 gram parallel results to Cialis and Viagra
* Mostly come in 100 mg capsules, found also 50 mg
* Cheapest I found is around $0.32 per 50 mg
* Cheapest I found is around $0.6 per 100 mg.
* Most are stating that you have to take it with vitamin C
* Powerful antioxidant, May help maintain circulatory health, These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA
* Daily Value not established
I would like to have some opinions.
Also Funny, where you are buying and what is the brand of the 25 mg you are taking. Please send me a PM in the subject as we can't promote any brand or seller on the forum.

James

[james1947]

Additional information I found regarding Pycnogenol:
Total of 310 studies were made regarding Pycnogenol.
Treatment of erectile dysfunction with pycnogenol and L-arginine. - PubMed - NCBI
Improvement of erectile function by a combination of French maritime pine bark and roburins with aminoacids. - PubMed - NCBI
Sperm quality in men is improved by supplementation with a combination of L-arginine, L-citrullin, roburins and Pycnogenol®. - PubMed - NCBI
* With L-Arginine and Pycnogenol there are no side effects, plus you don't have to rush to have sex after you take them since they stay in your system.
* Dosage - 2*500 mg capsules of L-Arginine and 50 mg tablet of Pycnogenol twice daily.

James

[Funny9097]

This is the one I've been using -

Pycnogenol | Product Details

PS - I purchased it in a health food store in Canada (not online)


I'm not actually looking to acquire the 'equivalent' of a drug like Cialis. In my case I don't have that ridiculous sex drive that I had as a 19 year old when I take 25 mg and .5 g of Arginine and am not just 'automatically' always in the mood but it does give a sufficient boost to my libido. I personally believe that if you're getting this rock hard like the good old teenager days erection from a drug like Cialis, given our/your condition with some degree of peyronie's, etc., it's quite unnatural and will lead to accerelated/further damage/plaque.

[james1947]

Thank you for the link and the advice Funny

James

[Funny9097]

No problem - I think it sucks but is important to stress that in my case incrrasing circulation seems to correspond with my condition getting progressively worse. I really fear that even a small dose of pyctogenol is just a band aid solution for me with regards to having a moderate sex life and that my condition continues to get worse. It's unsettling as I'm only 29.

I have a penile doppler ultrasound tomorrow. I'm really hoping some diagnoses / evidence of plaque, etc. comes up. Still don't have a pentox prescription in hand but I did get the doppler ultrasound which is certainly a good next step forward. I will keep you all posted.  

[NeoV]

Pycogenol falls under the category of proanthocyanidins, you may find useful information here,
Proanthocyanidins for nitric oxide (Grape seed, Pine Bark etc) - Peyronies Society Forums

Alternatively you can take grape seed extract for the same (cheaper) effect, and citrulline for a better alternative to arginine.

[kuaka]

I found a combo supplement...citrulline, argenine and even taurine (uncertain of the use of taurine here, but overall health is improved with it).  The trouble is that it gives me headaches similar to viagra...so daily use for me is contraindicated.  It is a body builder's supplement...so maybe I'm not physically active enough for it.

[NeoV]

Too much nitric oxide can certainly give one a headache. Start with smaller dosages. Stacking multiple supplements can give you much too much.

[Funny9097]

Yeah, in my case I have pretty serious ED (mainly due to the pain in my veins and in the lumps; lack of circulation; small hard flaccid state; etc,; and, worry of it getting inevitably worse) -

If on days when I am having sex (sayevery 3 days but that would change if I was single) I take 25 mgs of Pycnogenol and .5 of Arginine in the evening I've found that right now at least it's sufficient to give me a proper boost to libido / circulation without any major side effects (which I'm fortunate for)

Too much nitric oxide can certainly give one a headache. Start with smaller dosages. Stacking multiple supplements can give you much too much.

[Funny9097]

To provide an update I've continued to take Pycnogenol and LArginine (only 25mgs of Pycnogel and .5 Gs of Arginine) and I don't feel like my problems health wise are worsening as a result. I only take it every other day when I'm not hanging out with my girlfriend and this dose is very minimal but it does have some positive effect (much more so than Cialis which I'm convinced was not beneficial..)

[Funny9097]

Another update -

Continuing to use Pycnogenol and L-Arginine (25 mgs of the former and .5 grams of Arginine). I am trying to keep the amount of medication I take to a minimum so have only been using it roughly every other day (some times daily but then a 2-3 day break here and there so on average I take this small dosage once out of every 2 days I would say).

It's sufficient to help boost my sex drive and yesterday I had a good erection without any meds. Like I said in my previous post I don't think it is making my problem any worse so that's in and of itself good news. This is a bit of a 'blog' for me and I just like to provide updates here and there.

I recommend a small dose of Pycnogenol combined with Arginine or something of this sort.

While the above may be the case I often times feel like my private part is 'not there' (pain in the areas where there appears to e plaque, lack of bloodflow, a sense that were I to try I would be unable to achieve an erection even via masturbation w porn which mind you I've quit for the most part, etc.). My girlfriend is quite attractive so I guess that helps.

I meet my uro on the 29th too so I will ask for/hopefully try Pentox.

[james1947]

Good news Funny (also the erection, also the attractive girlfriend )
Thanks for the update. I will give it a try soon as the Viagra makes me sometimes bad head aches and low back pain.

James

[Funny9097]

Yeah, it really has zero side effects for me now and I found Cialis made me overheat / sweaty.

I was using it quite frequently and was on following days (even if I didn't have sex) unable to achieve an erection via masturbation. This is partly ED and party an after effect of Cialis (as it's tough for me to do so when I'm not on it). Still, clearly Cialis was no right for me.

Quote deleted by moderator - James
Please obey the forum rules!!!

[james1947]

Cialis is not good to me also, heavy sweat, low back pain, no erection, but with the daily 2.5 - 5 mg I have no problem.
Viagra works fine for me for sex, but sometimes with bad head ache.

James  

[Funny9097]

I hear you -

Personally, I think these ED drugs (Cialis, Livitra and Viagra) are no good for people with peyronie's - this is based on personal experience (below) and research (example - how they have no anti-inflammatory benefits and there is a warning on the label telling people with our condition to 'consult a doctor' prior to use and just think.. - they are a for profit company and this WOULD NOT be there if there wasn't some root negative impact the drug has that they want to prevent themselves from being liable towards).

I think of the analogy of pumping air into a balloon that has punctures in it - sure adding air pressure will cause the balloon to become hard but it may also cause the holes to widen and progress..

which begs the question - if this analogy is correct then where does that leave us when A - the 'punctures' get bigger as a result of this medication and B - susbequent to the 4 hours of added blood flow the 'air pressure' is gone?

In my case at least - beforehand - that leaves me looking for alternative treatment solutions / cocktails that don't include these particular ED drugs.. but please chyme in with your perspective(s)

**note that when I took Cialis it was the 5mg dose.

Cialis is not good to me also, heavy sweat, low back pain, no erection, but with the daily 2.5 - 5 mg I have no problem.

[james1947]

Funny

Interesting theory, but how we can compare holes in balloon with plaques?
For me is more like you have a balloon with a sticker on it that didn't let the balloon to expand in this specific spot while on all the other areas it expands.

James  

[LWillisjr]

which begs the question - if this analogy is correct then where does that leave us when A - the 'punctures' get bigger as a result of this medication and B - susbequent to the 4 hours of added blood flow the 'air pressure' is gone?

Sorry,
I don't buy that analogy. It doesn't make sense in this case.

You have to understand how these drugs work. It is a lot more complicated than what you are proposing. It's not filling holes in a balloon. It's more like the valve the keeps the air from leaving the balloon.

[Funny9097]

I'm going to reply to James - Though I'm sure there is truth in what he is saying I'm not in agreement with LWillisJr's approach to providing a response as it's seems he is trying to completely refute what I said and not stress that it's to a degree right or wrong ("Sorry, I don't buy that analogy. It doesn't make sense in this case").

I think what I'm getting at James is that the veins/chambers are clotted by plaque (in the case of Peyronie's or Penile Thombrosis) - if that's the case (recognizing that each case is different) it seems that any approach to these types of health problems should be focused on getting rid of this plaque / clot / hard vein / venous leak / whatever it might be.

It's analgous in this sense to a broken pump / tire / balloon, etc. While it might make the problem go away for one day if one of these things is broken one doesn't go about fixing it by simply pumping more air into it (more of a band aid solution).. you pump air into a broken tire to get home or to the mechanic and then you fix it recognizing full well that each time you do that it's over the long term make the problem worse (the long term solution is geared towards getting rid of the nail/plaque/piece of plastic stuck in the pump, or whatever it might be - one doesn't just keep using it over the course of years/decades with additional pressure like everything is all willy nilly!

My experience on Cialis was not great (see my story in previous comments below) and I don't think it has any anti-inflamatory effects or components that attack the root cause of Peyronie's. I did not feel I was moving forward in making my private part over the long term healthier on this drug which, given that I'm 29, is the priority for me in attacking my ED. My symptoms / sense of overall health in this area has been much better on the lowest possible dose of Pynogenol / L Arginine sufficient to mitigate my ED.

Also, a significant red flag in my view is that for profit manufacturers of such drugs - Calis, Levitra, Viagra - caution people with Peyronies from using their products which one could only presume is there for a reason / is to protect them from liability.

Interesting theory, but how we can compare holes in balloon with plaques?
For me is more like you have a balloon with a sticker on it that didn't let the balloon to expand in this specific spot while on all the other areas it expands.

[Funny9097]

I had a urological follow up appointment -

The doc prescribed me Verapamil cream during the 1st appointment - I still have the prescription but haven't used it yet.

I suggested Pentox and the Urologist said he had never prescribed it to anyone, was not sure if was offered in Canada and said that although he knew about it / it's use for Peyronie's would not be comfortable prescribing it (did not specify why).

He has referred me to a doc whose practice is geared more towards men with ED - it might take a few months before the appointment - given that I currently take mild amounts of meds (25 mg of Pycnogenol and 1/2 a gram of L Arginine every other day on average) and that he did not like the idea I'm still a bit apprehensive to try Pentox.

Should I push to get a prescription do you think? I'll probably wait until this follow up appointment I guess (I've had the lumps that I think are Peyronie's for years now so it's not in the early stages..)

[kuaka]

While still too early for a proper evaluation, I stand by my short term eval that my traction and VED indicated a modest improvement only 5 days into Pentox + Cialis use.  It appears to be the most promising non-invasive treatment for me at this time.

[Funny9097]

I'm really having a difficult time with this health problem - I feel that day to day and week to week my perspective towards it shifts significantly.

I had written an upbeat post a few days ago but deleted it; right now the problem really doesn't feel healthy at all. I'm not getting into the specifics but I feel that over time  the health issues I have described below seem to get worse, regardless of what I do and as they get worse the psychological ups and downs get worse as well.

I really wish everyone who is also coping with these troubles the very best.

I wish I could reduce/get rid of the plaque - I will be trying to get a pentox prescription I suppose, heh.

[Funny9097]

As an update I am still taking the 25 mgs of Pyctogenol and 1/2 gram of L Arginine -

This continues to be effective for me. I don't feel like the plaque/inflammation is getting worse.

I should note that the dosage I am taking is very insignificant. This is great because I know that if I want to I can up it to 50mgs Pynogenol and 1g of Arginine and still be far below the suggested daily dose. I seldom do this but it's nice to know it's there. I would recommend this combo as something to try out if anyone is suffering from a degree of ED and wants a supplement that won't further irritate them down there.

[Alvoip]

I noticed you said a month or so ago you were having a penile doppler done the next day.

Did you ever get the results (in regards to suspected plaques, corporal fibrosis, thrombosis of veins, blood flow, etc)? Did your urologist dismiss your concerns or have you ever been formally diagnosed with anything? Considering you can still get erections something radical like a prosthesis probably isn't a good idea outside of a last resort.  

I am the same age and have many of the same symptoms as you except that my Uro couldn't feel palpable scar tissue on the physical exam nearly 2 years ago though he still diagnosed with me with peyroines, I also found out after the fact my grandfather has a duputryen's contracture. I am also experimenting with supplements (E, omega 3, D, etc have had no benefit). I waited 2 years without trying any intervention and it hasn't stabalized and has gotten noticeably worse even with limiting masturbation to once a week (though I do browse porn for hours at a time).

I also have a multiple swollen/painful/bulging lymph or thrombosed veins that get painful (and have been progressively getting worse for 3 years) including a channel that encircles the entire head and worsening ED. I also have a very hard flaccid penis and a lot of anxiety.

I only brought up the veins with him on an oral follow up 3 months after the initial inspection so he never looked at them, his best guess was "lymph" but these channels clearly run down the entire penis and are prone to swelling, they are painful under the head and are irritated by masturbation or overly strong morning wood I rarely get. They have since gotten worse and more prevalent.

I didn't tolerate cialis well either (anxiety, sweating, very bad back/headaches, painful erections that made the skin look thin on erection and the veins bulge like it was over engorged), though it certainly removed ED @ 5mg daily (took it for a week or so).


Unlike you I have noticeable hour glassing/bending (at least until they fill in to varying degrees, 70 degrees down or so when starting with large HG underside/left/right with the occasional pretty damn straight morning wood) and a rubbery lump running the distal ventral half (that isn't visible sometimes and grossly swollen at other times especially when really anxious, cold, or starting erection).

Did any of your urologists confirm the presence of plaques or abnormal veins or did they brush you off?

Did you have a history of  anxiety/depression before your peyroine's?

Do you browse a lot of porn or remain aroused for long durations? (including mentally).

Do you sit excessively or exercise?

What is the longest duration you have abstained with a completely hands off approach? Have you been evaluated for Mondor's Disease or other vein clots via ultrasound?  

[Funny9097]

Hi Alvoip,

What you describe is very similar to myself - one distinction is A - I can feel the scar tissue on the lower back shaft of my private (Doc also did) and B - I don't really have pain when getting erections, just a degree of ED.

One primary concern I have is not just the ED issue but that it will get progressively worse. I agree on the Implant - it is a last resort that I hope to not have to take and at the very least for many years to come.


answers to some of your questions -

I did have an ultrasound but it was in the flaccid state - like you they said they didn't find anything, which was a little frustrating to me. I have never been formally diagnosed with Peyronies though as I said my urologist was able to feel the plaque on the lower shaft of my penis. He said it was 'normal' to have hard spots. I also mentioned to him and my family doc that it this plaque is causing some curvature as I am achieving erections (it eventually straightens out) and that I can feel the hard nodules obstructing circulation. They seems unphased.

When excercising and getting erections I do have hourglass from time to time, though it comes and goes.

Yes, I am a bit up and down psychologically - this is in part due to my ED and in part due to my personality / psychological tendencies.

I have browsed porn but I seldomly do so and don't masturbate frequently (perhaps a handful of times this year). I'd say I've averaged intercourse with my girlfriend 2 times a week.

Longest duration where I abstained from hands on approach was about 4 months (over 100 days) at the start of this year. Roughly 40 of those was in 'hardmode' where I had no girlfriend and did not engage in any form of sexual activity. Eventually I got quite horny which is partly what induced me to go out and meet someone in the first place.

I am relatively athletic. I try to lift once every 3-4 days - sometimes there is a bit of a delay. I'm 6 feet and 175 weight (not overweight). I run about twice a week.

I haven't really been evaluated for Mondor's or Vein clots - I find the Canadian health system to be innefective with ED.

I have an appointment with a Urologist who is a bit more of a specialist in September (the urologist I saw said he didn't have much to go on but thought it would be worthwhile for me to see the Uro in Calgary that is a bit more focused on ED). If you have any advice on what I should bring to his attention / discuss that would be much appreciated.

I wish you the best in dealing with your medical situation and please let me know if I can be of help / if you have any questions.

Did any of your urologists confirm the presence of plaques or abnormal veins or did they brush you off?

Did you have a history of  anxiety/depression before your peyroine's?

Do you browse a lot of porn or remain aroused for long durations? (including mentally).

Do you sit excessively or exercise?

What is the longest duration you have abstained with a completely hands off approach? Have you been evaluated for Mondor's Disease or other vein clots via ultrasound?

[Funny9097]

I want to add in response to Alvoip and everyone an additional thought, perhaps belonging to the psychological / coping mentally with Peyronie's section -


This condition (I have bending downward due to some hard pallates/plaque on the lower shaft of my penis / difficulty achieving and maintaining hard erections which affects libido and my girlfriend's sense of self worth / interest in me) is really tough to handle. I really just wish there was a way of making it simply go away and I've been coping with a degree of progressing ED for roughly 10 years now.


Easier said than done but I think one of the ways to 'medicate' this condition is to come to terms with it. I wish there was a 'magic bullet' that would make it go away but the reality I'm finding is that the only solution out there is to mitigate the problem (oral meds to an extent might help, considering a prothesis one day if it gets to that point which hopefully does not become the case, etc.). So yeah, easier said than done but accepting your libido / condition for what it is and being able to move forward despite it in life / relationships is probably, before medicating the problem with actual drugs, the most important step.


Just throwing that out there because I need some advice too, either medicinally or with how to cope with the psychological side.

Best,