Surgery in Germany

[Kazaam]

Anyone care to share their toughts on the suggested surgery? Follow the link to the website of the clinic. When I read this, I just want to make an appointment asap...Am I missing something here?

4th technique: IPP plaque removal (excision) with subsequent reconstruction
Surgical treatment options for induratio penis plastica and our technique - German Centre for Urology and Phalloplasty Surgery

[james1947]

Kazaam

My only problem with the link that you provided is that they are making penis enlargement surgeries also.
Non of the reputable surgeons we know are not doing this kind of surgeries.

James  

[kuaka]

Based solely on what they say about the other procedures offered, I do have to say that this one "sounds" like the best option for an actual surgical treatment...pretty close to an actual cure.  It has been performed for 20 years, according to their website.  I would like to see some follow up analysis of some of the early patients to see how it holds up (pun intended) for the long term.  From a purely engineering point of view, everything they state makes sense.  The only potential issue I see with this technique is that the tissue they are replacing is (supposed to be) of a very specific fibrous nature, having a "radial" structure which actually makes a penis "work" (circumference fibers and longitudinal fibers, without any "bias" fibers...think tire construction).  How close to this structure is the tissue which will result from the collagen fleece as it is replaced with living tissue?  It has the potential to grow as single plaque all over again.

Reconstruction and enhancement are indeed closely related, but I do get a check (feel a twinge of apprehension) when enhancement is such a major part of their "practice".  But then a lot of reconstruction Dr's perform breast enhancements too...    

[emasculated]

This particular clinic is well-known to be QUACK-DOCTORS.
An operation there will result in severe consequences / life long damage. They are well-financed (you need to pay a large sum for an operation and sign an agreement which will prevent you from ever suing them).
Additionally, they have staff which basically sits at the computer all day and searches the german web for mentions of penis enlargement or peyronies and then comment on those threads, threaten the webmasters with libel suits to remove any content which could damage their reputation etc..
So in summary: stay away from this clinic, they are frauds and quacks.

This has been discussed on this board before: Peyronies Progression/surgery - Peyronies Society Forums

[Pfract]

thank you for your contribution emasculated. I read this post, and i was also curious, since i am from Europe and could get there fast and cheap by ryanair, but not anymore i guess! Did they have any lawsuit in the past?

[Kazaam]

Thanks to all for the reply's and insights. So that saves me 20.000 dollars (!) and who knows what more trouble down the road.  

[james1947]

Kazaam

Checkout Dr. Kuehass, Vienna, London.
You can write him an email, for sure you will get answer.

James

[kuaka]

Wow.  I guess it pays to read, read, read and ask around.  While what they present sounds decent, of course, without peer review...

That is a good reason to be here.

[Kazaam]

Checked out Dr. Kuehass. That Egydio technique looks to show some promise. Good thing that the London clincic provides a 1-year guarantee, ofcourse you will probably have to save the receipt  

[james1947]

Kazaam

A search for "Kuehass" on the forum main page will give you the opinion of the members who were treated by him, opinions  regarding him and his work.
And not just:

That Egydio technique looks to show some promise

James

[Kazaam]

Thanks for the lesson on how to use the forum I am a rookie to this.

[james1947]

I just pointed out how to find the answers

James

[cdmusa]

I just read this thread and have mixed feelings about everyone's comments.

I'm posting this message to contribute more information, and also, to ask advice.

It's been since March 2014 that I discovered I had Peyronies Disease. My curvature is about 35 degrees to the left. After much research I decided to contact Dr. Mulhall in NYC. His staff was very professional and very helpful with my insurance.

I pursued the Xiaflex treatment which took 6 months to complete. It's very expensive but my insurance, with the help of the office, covered most of it. Disappointedly, there's was absolutely no improvement. The doctor clarified beforehand that this procedure only was helpful in a limited amount patients, but I was willing to take that chance.

After the final diagnosis Dr. Mulhall said we could try another cycle of Xiaflex, but the chances for improvement were even less since it didn't work the first time. He suggested the Nesbit technique and we had a long discussion about it. I didn't feel comfortable with this particular procedure and we mutually decided to give me some time to explore other options.

I kept reading about all the treatments on this site and on other resources. The one technique that seemed most promising, and is mentioned in this forum, is at German Center for Urology and Phalloplasty Surgery, performed by Doctor Konstantinidis. This is the website: Changes caused by the disease in detail - German Centre for Urology and Phalloplasty Surgery

Since this condition has basically destroyed my confidence and self esteem I decided it was imperative to do whatever needs to be done to try and rectify this condition. Believe me, having the Xiaflex injections was bad enough, but the thought of someone taking a knife to my penis terrifies me. But, I made the journey to Germany. The facility is very modern and located in the town of Seligenstadt outside of Frankfurt. The staff were extremely professional and there was about 6 other patients waiting to see the doctor when I arrived.  

I was examined personally by Doctor Konstantinidis and an assistant. He verified my condition by ultrasound imagery while my penis was flaccid. He stated that my scar tissue as actually growing. After his examination I was escorted into a private office. Another assistant explained in great detail what the procedure involved. I was given the opportunity to ask as many questions as I felt necessary. I asked if Doctor Konstantinidis would be performing the surgery if I decided to go through with it and was told yes. I left the office feeling relieved and confident that this procedure was the most promising and effective way to cure this condition even though I would have to make a loan for the cost.  

Since the very beginning my correspondence with the office has been with Ingo Krieghoff who has been providing all the information in a professional and attentive manner. Recently, I inquired when the next appointment would be available for the surgery. He promptly replied as usual, but informed me Doctor Konstantinidis would not be performing the surgery. Instead, it would be Dr. Pallantzas.

I provided the above information for anyone considering going to this facility in Germany. Now, this brings me to my question. Does anyone here have any experience with this procedure being performed by Dr. Pallantzas?  

The sole reason I made this journey is because of the reputation Doctor Konstantinidis has in the success of the surgery. Now, I'm a little nervous that this other doctor will be doing the procedure. I'm assuming he is very experienced and has been working with Doctor Konstantinidis for some time. The problem is when I try to research him the only thing that comes up is on the same site, but in German. When I click on the English flag it defaults to the home page. Once I scroll through the pages in English and get to doctor's page he's not listed.

I would very much appreciate it if there's anyone that has any experience or information about this particular procedure, and also about Dr. Pallantzas.

[james1947]

cdmusa

Personally, I am suspicious of any site that promoting penis enlargement surgeries.
I also don't understand why if I am paying for my surgery I can't chose my surgeon.
But of course is your tool and you may decide to go forward as you wish.

James

[SunSeeker]

Hi guys,

I am sorry I have not updated my progress but had Egydio technique with London Andrology Institute (Dr Kuehhas and Dr Djakovic).

I have to say I am proud owner of a very straight penis. The whoLe process was very good and beyond some concerns the first month (sswelling, painful erections ) I have been having successful intercourse for the first time after 2 years.

I have to say that I would recommend the team there to anyone.

From my initial research I had also found De Konstantinidis and he is apparently very good surgeon but was based IN UK and the londoN guys were actually cheaper.

I have no idea who De Pallatzas is but from reading the German website he seems to be the student of De Konstantinidis who has retired. I have not seen any papers or anything from him so I cannot judge.

But in all honesty why go there when you can have it London by the vest for cheaper?

I will post my pictures soon. I did not have a chanice to take a proper erect picture yet.

[james1947]

SunSeeker
Thanks for the update.

cdmusa
I think SunSeeker advice is a wise one, but again it is your penis and your decision.

James

[cdmusa]

Thank you to James1947 and SunSeeker! I continued to research Dr. Kuehhas in London and I'm happy to say I have a consult on 6/11. I'm sure Dr. Pallatzas is more than qualified, but London is an easier trip. At the very least, I felt I should investigate the London Andrology Institute's technique before going forward with the prior procedure. Sunseeker can you give some idea of the cost in London? Also, should I plan on staying in London a few days after the procedure, or do you think I'll feel up to a long flight back to the U.S.? Any other info you can provide would be appreciated. I'm still extremely nervous about a knife down there.  

[Pfract]

cdmusa: I assume it's on the 11th of June, the date you said. Please, do keep us posted on information regarding your consultation. Feedback is always much appreciated in these cases. Good luck!

[thepaul]

Hello all

I have been in communication with the German Centre for Urology for several months now, and like cdmusa I've found them to be totally professional and accommodating and have answered all of my questions. I don't see it as an issue that they do penis enlargements as well - they're penis specialists. After sending pictures of my situation to them, we arranged for a telephone consultation and Dr. Konstantinidis called me here in Toronto and we had a full half hour session. Both he and the assistant Ingo Krieghoff have been great. Now I'm booked to travel there for a further consultation on the 24th of this month, with surgery scheduled for the 25th! I've been really nervous about it, and I'm glad to see that someone has gone through with it successfully.
After reading Sunseekers post and just seeing this thread today, I'll be contacting the London clinic tomorrow to see if I should reconsider my options. I've sent an email to cdmusa and I'm going to ping Sunseeker as well.

I'll keep you all informed with developments.

[james1947]

I have said my opinion a few posts bellow so I will not say it again except that personally I will not chose a doctor that makes penis enlargement surgeries.
Than again, maybe I am just a grumpy old man that don't like doctors too much.

James  

[SunSeeker]

Hi guys,

Sorry for the delay in reply but unfortunately have been travelling and once you get your problem sorted you forget to engage with the forum. Having said that the forum ahs been a real help for me so I will try to answer questions as much as I can.

Regarding the cost in London it is around £8500 but they told me it depends on the operating time and the amount of graft used.

Regarding my opinion about the German centre, thye seem quite good, so not sure what to suggest. My experience was really good in London overall.

@thepaul Who wil you get operated from in Germany?  

[kuaka]

Corrective and enhancement surgeries are closely related.  I would rather use a DR who has performed hundreds of extensions than one who has only done a handful of corrections.  Isn't the point to "extend" the constricted portion?

[SunSeeker]

I would agree with Kuaka..penis enlargment is something I have seriously thought about and in fact patients really request it. All the good surgeons offer it unless they are academic and don't perform any penis surgery.

[Pfract]

Both of you guys do have a point, but a quick visit to Dr. Konstantinidis website leaves the impression that they are at least rude on their approach towards future patients; not to mention that thing he has there: "if you used penile extenders before, we don't want you here. But after our surgery, you have to use our fully approved ones to stretch your penis". Seriously? i am yet to read a medical paper on pubmed, from Dr. L Levine and others regarding penile extenders, stating that in the long term (if correctly used) they cause damage to the venous system of the penis, like this doctor states....

Of course i might be wrong, and i would like to be corrected if so.

[james1947]

As every one penis is on his own responsibility, one should chose the surgeon he things it will benefit him the most.
This is the bottom line. Wish to everyone excellent outcome with the surgeon he chosed.

James

[thepaul]

I'm actually leaning towards the London clinic now. I'm in consultation with Julian there, the patient co-ordinator, about possible dates. A couple of things I like about the London clinic, and the Egydio technique they use, is that there are clinical studies that attest to it's effectiveness, plus the fact that it adds length - " In addition, an intraoperative average increase of 2.5 cm (range: 1.7-4.1 cm) in stretched penile length was recorded" - who can say no to that?  

Long-term results of the surgical treatment of Peyronie's disease with Egydio's technique: a European multicentre study. - PubMed - NCBI

Peyronie's Reconstruction for Maximum Length and Girth Gain: Geometrical Principles

And so @Sunseeker, that's where I'm at. If I had gone to Germany it would have been Dr. Konstantinidis.

And @pfract, I agree, the website can come off as rude and condescending at times. I'm fairly convinced it's a translation issue. Both Ingo and Dr. Konstantinidis are actually cheerful men. I know that Ingo uses translation software partly when he responds to my emails, and they can be a little wonky. On the extender issue, I don't know...

I'll keep you apprised of developments.

Paul

[thepaul]

Change of plans - I'm now going to follow in Sunseeker's footsteps and go the the London Andrology Clinic. Less invasive procedure in that they don't get digging in to remove the plaque - more risk of ED I think.

@Sunseeker I would love some feedback from you - did you experience any shortening or less quality of erections from the proceedure?

[james1947]

SunSeeker

Your statement:

All the good surgeons offer it

Is very much misleading!!!
I don't know what is in your eye a good surgeon, but good surgeons in my eye are not doing penis enlargement surgeries!!!

James

[gayguy]

Besides the London andology clinic there is also the:Advanced Center for Penile Curvature Treatment in London. Is there any info on the quality of their work?

[james1947]

Zero search results on the forum and on google

James  

[thepaul]

Hello all

Just posted this also in the "Peyronie's Incision and Grafting at London Andrology Institute" thread.

I will update you very shortly on my experience at the London Andrology Clinic - hopefully by night's end here in Toronto. In a nutshell, I recommend it 100%. Fantastic clinic and surgeon.

More very soon.

[Johniscurved]

Hey guys just thought I'd add I'm pretty sure the ACPCT was founded by Dr.'s Kuehhas and Egydio, they just currently also operate with London Andrology. I might be wrong but that's my understanding, best to google it  

[Jonbinspain]

Is it really necessary for this guy to post the same unsubstantiated B.S. On every thread about surgery?  

[UGRS]

Dear forum users,

Normally we stay out of discussions in patient forums because we simply do not have the time. We are doctors but not web specialists and we do not want to influence the opinions of patients because one thing is clear, after all: Peyronie's disease does indeed severely and increasingly damage the form and function of the penis but it is not directly life-threatening. There is therefore no absolutely necessity to get treatment.
However, one member is brazenly spreading assertions and lies about us to the extent that one of our former patients asked us whether we intend to respond or not.
We are the leading centre for the treatment of this disease and perform the operation as a private service, which is unique in Germany. We do this so that we can provide optimal patient care and so that we are not instructed by insurance companies or hospital administrators on how and with what materials we are to treat our patients, for they will always choose ways to save money and use worse materials.
We, on the other hand, are here to treat our patients with the best of our abilities and the best materials.
Our patients come from all over the world. Not only the trade press but also the daily press and important public television broadcasters report again and again on the high quality of our work. Health insurance companies, even governmental ones, also regularly refer their patients to us.
Based on the assessments of the German Federal Statistical Office, we perform approximately 30% of all operations performed for this disease in Germany every year.
We surely have no need to manipulate any sort of writings, publications or other opinions nor do we have the cause or the time to attend to the other accusations made in this forum.
We are a highly specialised team yet naturally we are only human and not gods, meaning that there will be patients now and then who cannot achieve the results that they had hoped. Unfortunately this is often regrettably due to the fact that these patients come to us too late once their disease has already reached a very advanced state or due to the fact that they do not perform the postoperative physiotherapy in the way that they were instructed by us.
Nevertheless, we have absolutely nothing against these patients publicising their opinion and explaining that they had desired better results.
As a leading centre and as doctors who have sworn a medical oath, though, it is also our obligation to make sure that the quality of treatment is increased in general. So when we learn that other clinics or doctors are performing poor work or making promises they cannot keep in order to earn money from patients with Peyronie's disease we fight against those types of untrustworthy racketeers with all of the means available to us.
They sometimes have difficulty maintaining their advertisements filled with empty promises on the Internet or other places, so unfortunately they switch to patient forums to perform what is known as "soft marketing" there, meaning that they attempt to reach patients despite these setbacks by inventing fictitious identities and patient histories.
We simply do not have the time to look through all of the patient forums that exist in the world so it is your responsibility as a forum user to use your best judgement to identify fake entries and separate them from the real ones.
There are several studies from German universities that have found that, depending on the topic, up to 75% of the patient histories and entries found on what are believed to be patient forums on the Internet are actually fake and are attempts by clinics and doctors to avoid certain bans on advertising certain medical procedures and/or to spread promises that cannot be kept.

In this forum it is also claimed that we cannot be serious because we also offer penis enlargement surgery. This belief is unfair to the issue as well as to the patients concerned. We are the leading centre for penis enlargement surgery, as reported in the British newspaper The Guardian, for example. This procedure does not aim to increase the penis to an unrealistic size but rather to aid patients who have an objectively small penis to obtain an average penis and thereby a normal social life. In doing so we abide by the definition of disease as defined by the World Health Organization (WHO).

From the bottom of my heart I wish you all a good outcome from the treatment of your disease.