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Author Topic: Snake oil, or legit?  (Read 6015 times)

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DonBecker54

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Snake oil, or legit?
« on: March 14, 2015, 01:09:44 PM »

Yesterday I saw the physician's assistant (doc wasn't in that day) at Dr. Steven Morganstern's office in Atlanta. The PA asked a battery of questions, then I was given some tests, including ultrasound, blood tests and some sort of blood pressure/heart monitor.

I was given information on two types of treatments. One they call "endostimulation", which is injection of carbon dioxide into the plaque area. The other is Neosonic Wave Therapy, which is sonic waves applied to the plaque areas. The information sheets on these two treatments suggest results that may be too good to be true: improved blood flow reducing erectile dysfunction, and increase length and girth (big "too good to be true" red flag), as well as improvement in the Peyronies condition.

I have to drive from very northern Alabama to Atlanta, so it's either an extremely long day of driving to and from, or two days with a hotel. The cost of these treatments, as well as travel, is not cheap.

Before I go handing out my hard-earned money, I'm just wondering if anyone here has any experience with the carbon dioxide or sonic wave treatments, or with Dr. Morganstern.

Thanks for any replies.
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emasculated

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2015, 01:43:49 PM »

snake oil
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"Without health life is not life; it is only a state of languor and suffering - an image of death."

james1947

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2015, 05:56:04 PM »

Regarding the treatment, emasculated may be right.
Regarding Dr Morganstern, a search on the forum main page will give you 7 posts. You may find the answers there.

James
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Nemo

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2015, 07:47:42 PM »

Never heard of either of those treatments for Peyronie's, which, given the nature of this forum, doesn't lend them too much credibility. I'd keep your wallet shut. 

Nemo
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DonBecker54

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2015, 08:06:56 PM »

Thanks for the replies. There was something about the clinic that didn't seem right. The information sheets I was given read more like sales sheets, and there was some stuff mentioned that I just didn't believe.

There's another doctor--Doctor Douglas Milam in Nashville--I saw mentioned. I'll do some checking on him.
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james1947

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2015, 08:21:22 PM »

Doctor Douglas Milam in Nashville is very much appreciated by some on this forum, but from my understanding he is mainly specialized in surgeries and implants.

James
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peyroniesnofun

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2015, 09:50:36 PM »

Dr. Morganstern is not "snake oil medicine"! Dr Morganstern is the real deal. I have completed 3 weeks of treatment at his office. I can definitely say the plaque I have is getting smaller. The other Doctors I have seen only had one piece of the puzzle. I believe Morganstern has discovered the whole process in reversing this soul destroying disease. I have tried previously 20 treatments of ultrasound ,6 months of saline shots into the plaque and 2 prp shots with various Doctors. Nothing worked.
Dr. Morgansterns team are courteous,friendly and professional. They really care about you getting better. Like a guy told me in the waiting room,"His team takes a delicate subject and makes it easy to deal with".
I want to thank Stan for recommending Morganstern to me. I only wish I had taken his advise and gone to see Dr. Morganstern before I wasted my time and money on other Urologists. But you live and learn.

ReplyReport post
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Nemo

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2015, 11:09:14 PM »

So what are the details of the treatment Morganstern is giving you that has resulted in plaque growing smaller?  In a previous post, you said you were undergoing laser treatments of some sort that were reducing the plaque - was this with Morganstern or someone else. And what sort of laser treatments?   

With all due respect, you need to offer specifics when you talk about improvements because this is a disease that is notable for improvements being few and far between.  Thus, unless we hear specifics, the inclination is to be highly suspect of a new member touting improvement at the hands of treatments that are outside the mainstream. 

Please elaborate. 

Nemo
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james1947

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2015, 01:36:54 AM »

peyroniesnofun

First, I will second Nemo post 100%.
Please answer to his questions that we all will know what you are talking about.
Second, no one said that Dr. Morganstern treatments are snake oil.
The question was if someone has any experience with the carbon dioxide or sonic wave treatments, or with Dr. Morganstern.
Yourself asked February 17, 2014:
Quote
Has anyone been treated by DR. Morganstern in Atlanta?
Unfortunately, it is the first time, after more than one year you are back on the forum, still not updating us about your treatment.

James
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ray-zee

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2015, 09:54:07 PM »

Nemo,

As a patient of Dr Morganstern's, let me take a shot at your questions for Peyroniesnofun (btw, he posted a similar message on a smaller Peyronies board where the moderator recommends Dr Morganstern).

Dr Morganstern presently offers 3 "unconventional" treatments for Peyronies disease/ED:

1)  Neosonic - low level shockwave therapy
2)  Endostim (Carboxy) - CO2 penile injections
3)  Rejuvaheart - sequential pressure cuff inflation/deflation initially designed to treat Coronary Artery Disease.

He also offers more conventional treatments including blood work analysis, supplements, hormone replacement therapy, ED meds, PRP and Xiaflex.  He recommends VED and traction (Phallosan Forte).  I'm almost positive he doesn't use Lasers.

Dr Morganstern didn't invent any of these "unconventional" therapies, they were all developed to treat other conditions (google them).  He's probably the only Urologist who advocates combining them to treat Peyronies Disease/ED.

I have been a patient of Dr Morganstern's for 10 months and had my 16th Endostim injection this morning.  As my penis was being inflated w/CO2, the nurse practitioner and I discussed this board and the pros and cons of these therapies (seemed like a good distraction!)  First off, these treatments aren't cures (there is no cure), they are therapies that benefit many, but not all.  Since they are therapies, they have to be maintained or benefits will be lost.  Most aren't fully covered by insurance at the level Dr Morganstern recommends.  The Neosonic wasn't covered by mine and the Endostim was only covered for one treatment every two weeks (haven't done Rejuvaheart/not sure if it's covered).  Dr Morganstern would prefer that I receive treatments more frequently (esp. twice a week Endostim instead of twice a month), but we discussed my finances before starting and are going slowly to limit my out of pocket costs.  Wealthier patients go for the full Monty.

That being said, after 10 months w/Dr Morganstern (and four and half years since first diagnosis), my penis is in it's best shape yet, post Peyronies.  My main issue, ED at the head of my penis, is improving and I'm hopeful that I will soon be able to have penetrative sex again.  Morning wood is now stronger/more frequent than at any time since before this all started.  I believe the combination of therapies (esp. Endostim, Phallosan Forte, daily Cialis and VED) has produced these results.

I don't think Dr Morganstern is a snake oil salesman or a miracle worker.  I believe he offers a treatment protocol that will benefit many patients with moderate Peyronies disease.
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james1947

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2015, 10:07:01 PM »

ray-zee

Glad as you have posted the detailed report regarding doctor Morganstern.
It clarifies many things. :) More information we have about doctors and treatments, more chance that some Peyronies sufferers will get better.
I have big esteem for him, and I think Nemo also.
My problem (I have posted before ) is that some members are posting about some treatment and then disappear for a year, not reporting nothing about the treatment, so no one don't know if it is a legit treatment or not.
I will add your treatment list and opinion to his name on the doctors list.

James
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Nemo

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2015, 10:55:11 PM »

Thanks for the detailed report ray-zee. 

Nemo
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DonBecker54

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2015, 12:22:57 PM »

Yesterday I had my second Endo treatment. I'll be going every two weeks. I just can't afford any more than that, as I have to drive from out of state and get a hotel, which makes the visits even more expensive.

I've mentioned the lack of sensitivity I have in my penis, which is a result of age. The physician's assistant Dan has mentioned that Dr. Morganstern has developed a cream to increase sensitivity in the head. It's $100 for a small tube. I'm just not going to plunk down $100 for something that could be voodoo. Does anyone have any experience with this cream? If it works, I'll definitely buy it.

Damn, this whole thing is getting expensive, even without the "full Monty" of treatments.
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james1947

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2015, 06:49:53 PM »

DonBecker54

Keep us updated about the benefits of the treatment please

James
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joben

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2015, 08:57:17 AM »

DonBecker54-

Have you noticed any changes/improvements from the Endo treatments?
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james1947

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2015, 07:30:01 PM »

DonBecker54 was last online at April 19, 2015.
I hope also he will update us. :)

James
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ray-zee

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2015, 03:03:06 PM »

Can't speak for Don but am happy to let you know that I had my 18th Endostim treatment w/Dr Morganstern this morning.  Continue to experience sloooowww, incremental improvements over time, esp. in morning wood rigidity.

Switching therapies, Dr Morganstern also mentioned that both he and Dr Tom Lue are proponents of low intensity shockwave therapy, that they use the same machine in their offices and that Dr Lue had coauthored a paper on the therapy using rats as test subjects.

Effects of Low-Energy Shockwave Therapy on the Erectile Function and Tissue of a Diabetic Rat Model

He also showed me pictures of a collagenous buildup around a person's ear (same situation as Peyronies, just visible since the mass was directly under the skin) that he was able to significantly reduce in size using a combination of treatments.  In summary, his approach to treating Peyronies/ED is to both break down the collagenous fibers while also revascularizing the surrounding tissue.
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joben

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2015, 08:41:56 AM »

Ray-Zee,

Finally decided to proceed with the Endostim.  Had first injection this week.  Crossing my fingers this has positive outcome.  Still can't decide on the shockwave therapy treatment.  Of course I want to...just so expensive!
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skunkworks

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2015, 01:29:45 AM »

Very interested in hearing more about the results of the Low-Energy Shockwave Therapy.

What brand was the machine?

ray-zee

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2015, 07:55:46 AM »

The machine pictured in Dr Lue's rat study looks identical to the machine in Dr Morganstern's office.  According to the paper "a shockwave applicator (DermaGold, MTS Europe GmbH, Konstanz, Germany) was placed in contact with the penis...".  The paper also shows a close up picture of the head of the machine being used on a rat's penis.

Here's the link to the MTS Dermagold shockwave therapy machines made by Mayer-Hayoz in Germany:

Homepage ยท Meyer-Hayoz Design Engineering Group
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coive

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2016, 02:27:18 PM »

If it's snake oil, I'm buying. It's working for me. Something's working for me. My leftward curvature is gone. And my upward curvature from way up there is well on its way to zero, you know, straight. Dr. Morganstern's treatment, call it what you want, is getting me back to normal.
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Mlathem

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2016, 01:01:33 PM »

Hello there,
I am also hoping to get an appointment with Dr Morganstern. Me and Coive have talked some about him and he has told me how much the treatments have helped him. I think there is something to Breaking down the Collagenous Tissues and revascularizing the surrounding tissue. I will let you all know if I get an appointment and start using the treatments.

I have tried stretching, VED, and i currently take pentox and Cialis. For some reason my tissues don't respond well to stretching and VED. So hopefully he can help revascularize my surrounding tissue and then break down the collagenous tissues and that will help me be able to stretch and use the VED for a treatment option as well.

Thanks, Michael
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kuaka

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Re: Snake oil, or legit?
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2016, 03:41:46 PM »

Just how expensive are the Dr's treatments?
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