Alternative Treatment

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Christopher1

There needs to be a study done with this cream. Hmmm...
Snake Diet + 5-day fasts + pentox + NeoV's stretching routine + Mito Red Light. Curvature 99% gone.

I also used Todd Capistrant's "Fascial Distortion Model" to help my curvature. Start slowly.

melting

Pentoxifylline has a Molecular Weight: 278.31
This makes it a good candidate for transdermal delivery with DMSO.

We know that Pentox is widely used and described for Peyronies Disease. Many had no improvement with it. Im pretty sure that most oral supplements can have only marginal impact for the condition.
The plaque is sitting in the tunica at a place that hasn't much blood supply. So anything going systemical through the blood will only affect the site of the Peyronies Disease marginally and possibly urinated out of the system before doing any impact. This is simple logic.  
I guess it makes sense, to be blunt, if you would throw a Peyronies Disease-plaque into a 24hour/7days solution of Pentox or any other said to help drug, the pentox would have more impact then eating some pills.


Verapamil hydrochloride has a Molecular Weight: 454.611 g/mol.

So also able to be shuttled transdermal by DMSO.
Some good and some useless reports about it. The most useless obviously oral supplementation of it. Some bad reports cause injections created more scar tissue.
It also might work best on new plaques as a calcium channel blocker stopping the plaque from hardening.(calcification)

Vitamin E and Potassium Iodide are also able to shuttle through by DMSO.


It makes sense that this creme is possibly working. I used DMSO and VE and Iodine already in a DMSO solution and they softened my plaques.

To make it work Im also pretty sure that you have to use it as often as possible for the simple logic already laid out above. The more you "bath" the Peyronies Disease plaque in a helpful solution the more success.
10% dmso seemed to have worked for Perplexed, not sure if that isnt a bit on the low end.


Daily Transdermals and Traction/VED solved my Peyronies Disease https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,12587.0.html (DMSO+X)

Christopher1

What is DMSO's maximum carrier limit for molecular weight?
Snake Diet + 5-day fasts + pentox + NeoV's stretching routine + Mito Red Light. Curvature 99% gone.

I also used Todd Capistrant's "Fascial Distortion Model" to help my curvature. Start slowly.

livinghell

Through reading this thread I have gotten very interested in this topical application of Pentox. I started looking up pentox cream in google and came across this article which I found interesting. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4228656/ This guy seems to very much support pentox even through a cream. I also came across this http://www.podiatrytoday.com/blogged/how-topical-compounding-has-worked-my-patients so I am hopeful towards this pentox cream and ways to get it leading me to this place Compounded Scar Cream | IPS Compounding . I still plan to do more investigating into this but I'm sure it'll give some ppl something interesting to check out

Christopher1

It would be challenging to find compounded pentox cream.
Snake Diet + 5-day fasts + pentox + NeoV's stretching routine + Mito Red Light. Curvature 99% gone.

I also used Todd Capistrant's "Fascial Distortion Model" to help my curvature. Start slowly.

Paolo

Hi livinghell, I also found below link, may interest you as it mentions Pentox along with DMSO

A Novel Compound Analgesic Cream (Ketamine, Pentoxifylline, Clonidine, DMSO) for Complex Regional Pain Syndrome Patients. compound analgesic cream (CAC)
ketamine 10%, pentoxifylline 6%, clonidine 0.2%, and dimethyl sulfoxide 6% to 10%.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26547813
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

spyrosg

Hi, guys...

isn't it a little peculiar how doctors, like -for example- Dr. Levine who prescribes the PAV, etc. and he is supposedly works with companies for a cream solution, have not tried or recommended something like a pentox based cream, up to now ?

Unfortunately, this disease has a lot of ''try and see'' procedures, by the patients themselves ...

We are taking pentox or other medicine, without a clue ... if we see no betterness, then (I do it) we feel that perhaps, in case we didn't get these things, the situation could be worsened .. and then, we keep on trying everything under the same concept.

For the time, it is 6 months now that i do ved every day, I take one or two pentox pills, and 1000 mgs of arginine ... no results ... but keep trying ... nothing better to do ...  

livinghell

Good find Paolo. It seems like there are small studies that support pentox in topical cream form yet there has not been a larger study. Which makes me wonder why. Is there not an effective ailment that this can properly be marketed for or does it simply not work in cream format. It seems to have worked in some capacity for Perplexed so I would hope to see others to benefit from it as well. So yes the skeptics are out why leading Peyronies Disease urologists haven't implemented pentox in cream form but I hope it has some merit and maybe we'll see it out soon. But spyrosg i just started my 26 week program a couple days ago and before I use the ved I usually heat up with a rice sock and gently massage the plaque areas with a sonicare for a good 10-15 mins before I put it in the ved. After my shower I then apply castor oil. This will be my go to routine for when I use the ved for the next six months and onwards towards recovery. I'm with you man just wish there was an idiot's guide to getting rid of peyronies.

z01

After reading this topic, I had done two things, firstly, I had written to Dr. Dennis to verify the validity of this post (this is the internet after all), he confirmed to me that this was indeed an actual case he had seen for a patient (no details discussed obviously beyond me asking him to confirm that this actually happened). He also told me that the dosage was actually very low and could be increased, but he suggested that (the dosage) as a preliminary "test run" initially to see if the patient responded. However, he did warn that the patient's success wasn't what would be considered typical, so there's that.

Upon having this confirmation I had a discussion with my doctor (showed him this topic and the email - cause you know, asking your doctor about "some guy online" usually doesn't work that well) on the possibility of him prescribing this medication for me to try out. After reviewing, he agreed that it had the potential to work simply based on the vera+pentox+DMSO mix, and further told me that the dosage could be increased (he settled on roughly double of what the OP's dosage was) and that is what I have received.

As I have only started the treatment this week it presumably should take some time before - if any - results are seen.

Let's see how things go.

Side note:

There really are a lot of dissenting opinions in the medical community about Peyronies Disease it seems... my doc hasn't put me on anything oral aside from 2.5mg cialis daily - in his words "just in case you have problems obtaining erections", yet on this board I've read that most are put on various oral regimes. Of course my question would be, of the ingested medication, what percentage would even reach the affected area due to low circulation of said area? Trans-dermal delivery of drugs right to the affected area in theory makes a lot more sense than ingesting but there seems to be very little interest in developing such medication mainstream?


leland_mack

Quote deleted by moderator. Read the forum rules

Haven't been here or posted for a while now. My treatment consisted of the usual, Vitamins, Pentox, Vacuum, used traction also. I feel I had my most improvement using traction and VED and saw no change with Pentox or Vitamin E or anything else.

I tried to have my doctor prescribe Dr. Dennis' formulation, at first he seemed receptive, on my next visit I brought formula and he balked saying he needed a more precise description than 10% this and 5% that.

This seemed strange to me, since one would think that all that is needed is to decide the total amount of medication you will make then compound the actives by percentage with the base carrier.

Made me think he was more interested in treating me than curing me.  Less money to be made by curing I suppose so I have not been back to him.

Still hoping to hear another success story from Dr. Dennis' compound.

If I do I am headed to Oregon, I have plenty of air miles available to use.

z01

Well it's been some 4 months almost, I had wanted to give a bit of an update sometime ago but never got around to doing that, apologies for anyone who was interested.

Around the 3 month mark of using the aforementioned formula I had started to see some improvement, in that (don't get this wrong) erections were becoming a bit... strange (as in you can feel some sort of stretch where the plaque is). Keep in mind that my Peyronies Disease started and resolved almost a decade ago (that's what my doctor figures and I never knew what the curvature was till my SO asked about it randomly) due to multiple injuries sustained. Now I've yet to check with my doctor about this development as it's not really a bother, but I figure that the plaque is being softened gradually and that it's about time that I tried to squeeze time in for traction to further develop on this.

That's about all that's happened to far. I believe this formula has been somewhat effective, my case is certainly not a 1 month cure as was the case for the OP, but I do think it's working.

OBX

Noting there hasn't been any more posts on this I wonder if anyone else has tried this topical cream?  Is there any update?

Christopher1

I want to try it, but do not know how to find someone who can prescribe this compounded formula.
Snake Diet + 5-day fasts + pentox + NeoV's stretching routine + Mito Red Light. Curvature 99% gone.

I also used Todd Capistrant's "Fascial Distortion Model" to help my curvature. Start slowly.

TonySa

Any medical provider (MD, DO, NP, PA, etc) who can prescribe can call in a Rx to a compounding pharmacy for you.  Just have to find a willing provider.  Most who describe their practice as "integrative medicine" are likely to do so.  As it will be generic, the cost can be quite reasonable.
PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

diehardpatriot

HAs anyone else tried this?)
Penis injury in late 2017. A lump formed at injury site that caused no deformity, just pain and a palpable lump. Pain is improving through proper rest and use, diet, and mindfulness. I am always learning and looking to share things that have helped.

webfoot35

I am wondering if the OP, z01, or anyone else who has used the cream has experienced any further success? If so, please keep us updated.  

bigwilly

Wow Perplexed your doctor sounds amazing.  He literally created a cream specifically to help with your illness, very rare that a doc would go out on a limb.  

Curious, what state is he in?  Also is he a urologist or a GP?

bigwilly

Wow I actually live 2 hours away from Portland, Oregon.  What are the odds?  Unfortunately it appears that Dr. Dennis Lee is no longer practicing.  Is that true, Perplexed?  

Bubba dawg

I am going to talk to my doctor about this as soon as we get more confirmation from members long term results. Side effects etc. I can see where this would be a lot better than oral. I still need more improvement. Sometimes it looks 90%. Sometimes it looks 70 % improved from xiaflex treatments. Looks very promising. I wonder why there is no xiaflex penetrating  cream?
5 Rounds of Xiaflex. Good results.

I am known to give out false information and post nonsense with little to no evidence to back up my claims.
I have ignored several warnings. Further reports to the moderators or Administrators and I will be banned.

james1947

One year on with no new report.
Two possibilities (maybe more)
* Cured himself and now he is rich from patenting the formula
* Didn't cured himself and I don't know...

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

buzzin2

why doesnt anyone actually come back and post what happened
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samsung

I recently had my dr. call in a script to a compounding pharmacy for DMSO+pentox, verapamil and vit. E.

If I have any results (don't hold your breath) I will report back. I doubt I will be able to use this because Pentox makes me crazy and with DMSO, it will probably accumulate in my system and make me discontinue using it. We'll see.

I am also going to ask if he can do another formulation with mofetil.
45 y.o. Single. Onset of symptoms (pain-stinging like a wasp) @ 6/2018. No sudden injury. Curve developed slowly. 40 deg. dorsal. Hourglassing. Torsion to left flaccid. 4 rounds xiaflex. Restorex, DMSO+, heat, arginine, cialis, lipoic acid, vit. K2

buzzin2

yo i dunno i just have an injury or acute stage peyronies but i have pain and a curve when half hard but not barely at all when fully hard.  if it is just an injury or acute stage, would it beneficial to do dmso? i figure the same concept would apply regardless of peyronies, acute stage peyronies or just a penis injury, right? isnt dmso just about penetrating the tissue to get stuff in there directly
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TonySa

DMSO is the transporting agent.  You'd need to add a compound you believe would be therapeutic.  A few guys here are trying it.  I'd start reading the survival guide here.  Seek out a specialist who can diagnose you w an ultrasound.  Consider getting started w pentox, low dose nightly PDE5i and traction or VED to halt any progress and remodel the plaque to healthy tissue.  
https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,3180.msg44057.html#msg44057
PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

buzzin2

ya my uro laughed and said for what?? when i said what about doing an ultrasound.  i just signed up for insanely good insurance coverage for 2020 so i dont think i can access a good uro until then.  so they can tell with an ultrasound if its acute peyronnies or not?  ive had like 8 appointments and theyve ran every test and said im fine, but i have pain enough that i cant really do anything - bumps while driving are pretty bad after a few miles
also im reading that long ass 10 page dmso thread to educate myself and i think im just gonna use the thackers formula, and then also dmso + vit c and dmso + vit e at separate times

i dont have any plaque that i can feel i just have pain and a slight curve, the uro said no plaque but that was just by feel.  im debating going to a uro in the mean time in my current network and asking about pentox or just simply ordering it online as some other ppl posted recently it seems i either have acute peyronies or some type of penis injury, but all advice ive gotten says the protocol is the same.  im eating super healthy and supplementing with vit e ubiquinol propolis blueberry extract and milk thistle.  would you suggest just adding pentox and the dmso  on my own and then also seeing a new uro? thx

ive also read the entire survival guide
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melting

Quote from: buzzin2 on November 30, 2019, 06:42:36 PM
so they can tell with an ultrasound if its acute peyronnies or not?  
The problem with many uros is that they will only label it peyronies when there's an established hard palpable plaque.
So many say "to wait" until you have a bent, hourglass or any other established peyronies form.

The Ultrasound, which is their nr.1 way to diagnose it also, in most cases, will only show faulty tissue when it's hardened.
So in that context what your doc says "for what" makes sense.
But if you have reason to believe you had an injury or inflammed tissue that is basically the start of the peyronies condition the doc should be able to give you some option to AVOID it resulting in a hard plaque. Like anti inflammatories, healthy tissue formation etc. I think verapamil and pentox could help to avoid hard plaques forming.  
(so could some dmso + x formations, like I talk about in the DMSO + X thread.)

My hunch is that the doc you have right now is not good for your case and you might check for another one that understands your worries.

Daily Transdermals and Traction/VED solved my Peyronies Disease https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,12587.0.html (DMSO+X)

TonySa

For the pain I'd try a NSAID and diclofenac sodium gel applied to penis.
PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

buzzin2

Quote from: melting on December 03, 2019, 06:28:36 AM
The problem with many uros is that they will only label it peyronies when there's an established hard palpable plaque.
So many say "to wait" until you have a bent, hourglass or any other established peyronies form.
do you mean bent, hourgless or another form when erect?  i have a curve thats most prominent when its half hard, but when its fully hard in the morning its essentially 100% straight. when its half erect its like maybe 15% to the left and the pain is on the right side of the shaft.  i find it weird in my case that the pains on the right side but the curve is to the left, and again the harder i get the straighter it gets.  i thought that in peyronies the plaque prevents blood flow and the curve goes to the same side as the plaque.  

so everyone has essentially told me the same thing, that it could be an injury or acute stage peyronies but that i wont know until it does or does not develop - and that the protocol to treat both is the same. do u think i should research and find what i think drugs are most apprortiate and suggest that in the appointment or just see what the new uro says?  or i guess i could do both...

and then im gonna get dmso and do those applications too. should i ask the uro for a ultrasound or would that be a waste of time at this point? thx
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melting

If you look at Penis anatomy depending on where you have the injury or faulty tissue it can influence your erection differently.  
Without a hardened plaque I can imagine that during a full erection the blood pressure and erection mechanisms are strong enough to mitigate/"overpower" the "weakness"/bad tissue.

I think anti-inflammatory should be the focus during an acute phase. Then it needs to heal properly.(healthy collagen formation vs. scar formation).
Once you have faulty tissue I think things change. The tissue needs to be stretched/"broken" and/or dissolved(or other medical treatments)

I think many had good Uros who listen and think outside the box and then you have 1 dimensional ones. You need to gauge if the doc is good yourself.
I'm not 100% sure on the different imagining procedures and what they can show but that can surely be found somewhere. The doppler/ultrasound might help even if its just shows what's not there...  

Sadly with this penis stuff it seems we need to either have a really great doc or turn into experts ourselves.
Daily Transdermals and Traction/VED solved my Peyronies Disease https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,12587.0.html (DMSO+X)

buzzin2

so, is there a chance itll just heal properly and not scar up if i act appropriately and take all precautions?  also when you say the blood pressure overpowers the weakness/bad tissue does this mean that the comrpmised tissue is just restricting blood flow? i wonder if the fact the erections are still full means its not that bad, or that the tissue can be repaired with some work and the right meds and treatments during acute
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Godisreal

It seems like this guy got his problems completely solved with DMSO + X
Can anyone recall what the mix consisted of? Or why it isn't a well known and used treatment for the disease? His claims are totally legit, right?
And it seems like he got cured, basically.
30 degree dorsal curve, immobility and heavy loss of girth.
My body seems to get very inflamed when I masturbate too often or eat unhealthy.
Using antioxidants, Pentox and hirudoid cream, as well as manual traction, heat and Cialis.

TonySa

It may be real for him...but if it was really the solution we would have heard from lots of guys as many tried it over the years.
PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.

melting

Quote from: buzzin2 on December 04, 2019, 08:01:48 PM
so, is there a chance itll just heal properly and not scar up if i act appropriately and take all precautions?  also when you say the blood pressure overpowers the weakness/bad tissue does this mean that the comrpmised tissue is just restricting blood flow?
I don't know what's going on exactly with you. Just semi educated speculation ;) That's why I can lay out my thoughts but can't make individual definite statements.

It really depends where the site of "injury"/faulty tissue is. Look at an anatomy picture and then you can imagine what faulty tissue could do in different spots..

The problem with peyronies bends mostly happens when the site gets hardened/calcified.

In many cases that's within the tunica layers. The tunica can expand to a certain degree. In acute phase a site of injury or with a fibrous inflammatory mass might still be flexible and a straight erection possible. The body "repairs" or isolates the injured site with harder tissue and that takes time(weeks/months). This tissue is then less flexible than tunica which results in bends and hourglass symptoms.

But let's say the faulty tissue is near an artery or smooth muscle cells and is not yet hard/calcified..
In flaccid state the tissue is compressed. So any swelling/inflammation might constrict more % of the total diameter
Imagine a hose that has only low water pressure and a hair tie around it. That would influence the shape and function of the hose.

Now imagine the hose has high pressure water in it,.. it would expand normally as the hair tie isn't a hard constriction vs. the pressure.
During an erection arteries, and smooth muscle cells which are supplied by artieries, fill with blood and expand and the pressure goes up a lot.

If I had a penis injury today, I would stop any strain on the tissue, no masturbation, no sex. Good bloodflow but no prolonged erections.
I would eat healthy, lot's of good air/oxygen. I would take pentox and other oral medications that lower inflammation.
I would apply everyday DMSO+vitamin C and DMSO+anti inflammatories and DMSO + other supplements that aid in HEALTHY COLLAGEN FORMATION, and do that for many months..  

It's quiet established how the body deals with injuries to various tissues. Timeframes and what behavior and supplements helps and what helps not.
The penis tissue in it's isolated parts is not much different to other body parts. The big problem with Penis tissue is the "volatile" place. Low blood circulation, trapping inflammation, and erections stretching inflammed tissue, aggravating it.

If you have an injury in your knee or arm and take medications it will with high probability reach that site of injury circulating.(after you took it oral)
Not so much with the penis. That's why using transdermal DMSO applications directly to the site of injury makes logically sense.
Daily Transdermals and Traction/VED solved my Peyronies Disease https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,12587.0.html (DMSO+X)

melting

Quote from: TonySa on December 05, 2019, 01:09:13 PM
It may be real for him...but if it was really the solution we would have heard from lots of guys as many tried it over the years.
Not many tried it all and for everyone trying you have dozens of people disparaging them with empty statements that have nothing to do with the logic of the treatment at hand.
How many tried in open forums? 20? For how long and how often did they use it? Which combination of supplements for which type and stage of peyronies? Did they use VED and traction along with it?
You are very keen on scientific accountability, so maybe you investigate this in detail with sources etc. before making generalized statements acting as if you knew?

Many insecure men will never try it anyway or give up fast cause of the variables of this as a DIY treatment. Perplexed doctor is a blessing. Only possible in America and surely not in europe where the only official option is oral meds and to get sliced up.

Most people end up with doctors repeating the "come back when your dick bends, let's see from there" mantra. Quiet sad state of affairs.
How great it would be if Perplexed doctor could help them with his open mind and simple application of logic towards a solution.
Daily Transdermals and Traction/VED solved my Peyronies Disease https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,12587.0.html (DMSO+X)

TonySa

Melting, it's not about putting down unorthodox treatments.  But, when guys have tried them and have had success...more and more try and have even more success.  Traction is a good example, as more tried it and had success, more tried and it even began to become included in medical studies.  That didn't happen w DSMO, but it's great for guys to try things...just be sure to do that to the exclusion of treatments w some success records.  Hope this makes sense.  Your excited about this treatment and that's great, good luck!
PxD 2 yrs 9/16.  Failed all treatment. 9/11/18: excision, grafting & implant Dr Karpman MtnView Ca, AMS CX 18cm + 3-1cm RTEs.
Pump failed.  2/11/20 Dr Karpman installed Titan 22cm +1cm RTE.