Proanthocyanidins for nitric oxide and less TGF-beta

[NeoV]

Oligoneric proanthocyanidins, found in grapeseed extract and pinebark extract among other sources, increase nitric oxide in the body, and have been studied on ED and vascular disease, now commonly being included in bodybuilding "pump" or pre-workout products along with Citrulline etc.

The main mechanism appears to differ from Citrulline and Arginine as well as Cialis, originating from their ability to block calcium ions and activate p-AKT. The best erections I had were when I took pine bark (often sold as pycnogenol). Grapeseed extract is cheaper however so I have switched. Other popular sources are Hawthorn berry and Shizandra berry.

Aside from increasing nitric oxide, proanthocyanidins have a large range of good effects on one's body, preventing fibrosis, atherosclerosis, edema, and acting as an anti-inflammatory and antioxidant. In fact I think I originally bought pine bark extract to treat my edema.

Pharmaceutical and nutraceutical effects of Pinus pinaster bark extract

Here is the mechanism.

"(GSE) upregulates eNOS and NO by inhibiting insP3Rs-mediated intracellular excessive calcium release and by activating p-AKT in endothelial cells."
Grape seed extract enhances eNOS expression and NO production through regulating calcium-mediated AKT phosphorylation in H2O2-treated endothelium. - PubMed - NCBI

GSE also inhibits estrogen as it is an aromatase inhibitor.

Moreover, they inhibit TGF-beta and other Peyronie's suspects
"GSE attenuated the As-induced changes in the serum levels of tumor necrosis factor-α (TNF-α), interleukin-6 (IL-6) and IL-1β and the mRNA levels of TGF-β1, α-smooth muscle actin (α-SMA), connective tissue growth factor (CTGF) and fibronectin (FN) in renal tissue. Furthermore, administration of GSE markedly reduced As-stimulated reactive oxygen species (ROS) production and Nox activity, as well as the protein expression levels of the NADPH subunits (Nox2, p47phox and Nox4). In addition, GSE cotreatment was correlated with a significant reduction in TGF-β/Smad signaling, as demonstrated by the decreased protein levels of TGF-β1 and pSmad2/3 in renal tissue. This study indicated that GSE may be a useful agent for the prevention of nephrotoxicity induced by chronic exposure to As. GSE may exert its effects through the suppression of Nox and inhibition of TGF-β/Smad signaling activation."
Grape seed extract attenuates arsenic-induced nephrotoxicity in rats

[lonelyboy]

Nice one, I think I'll be adding this to my regime, good find.

[skunkworks]

Pycnogenol was the most effective non prescription substance I had/have ever used with regards to erection strength and frequency.

[MoatazKad]

With regards to the grape seed extract and the citrulline mate which supplement brands do you recommend. I am thinking NOW and Jarrow Formulas as two of the better companies out there. I'm curious with regards to those who have seen benefits with them whether they were taking them on an empty stomach or not?

[james1947]

Proposing you MoatazKad to buy a bottle and test it in a laboratory if you have the money for it!!!
Why, in the link bellow :
https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,6008.0.html
Myself bought L-Citrulline Malate from SWANSON, but what they really have inside, who knows?

James

[NeoV]

I recommend primaforce due to it being cheap and in powder form. Use a straw as to not erode your teeth enamel. The structure is similar to malic acid.

As for GSE, I am not too sure. I tend to go for lowest price and all these things.

[MoatazKad]

cheapest offer for pycnogenol: http://www.iherb.com/Healthy-Origins-Pycnogenol-100-mg-60-Veggie-Caps/4128?at=0

[james1947]

I am just wandering what should be the daily doses of Pycnogenol.
NeoV has stated 2*100 mg.
So wahy soo many manufacturers making capsules of 30 and 50 mg?
Just wandering.

James

[MoatazKad]

i think the daily or recommended dose is 100mg.

[swaggyp12]

Hello everyone,

Can someone who is somewhat educated about the pathology of Peyronie's explain to me how the effects of Pycnogenol are not detrimental if one of them is an increased production of collagen?  

[projectpd]

I'm not educated about it but eg.

Pycnogenol® metabolites represent potent inhibitors
of destructive enzymes matrix metallo-proteinases
(MMPs) -1, -2 and -9, which break down dermal tissue proteins collagen, elastin and gelatine, respectively
[Grimm et al 2004; Grimm et al., 2006]. The reduced
activity of lytic enzymes extends connective tissue halflife in the dermis, representing the basis for maintaining an elastic, smooth and youthful looking skin

https://www.pycnogenol.com/fileadmin/pdf/Application_brochures/Pycnogenol_OralSkinCare_EN_161_WEB.pdf

I'd forgotten about pycnogenol for years!

but it does taste absolutely revolting btw

[swaggyp12]

Okay thanks for the info project. So do you think the fact Pycnogenol produces collagen and the idea that Peyronie's is a result of excessive collagen production makes Pycnogenol beneficial nonetheless?

Also, in the information you sent me it is said that Pycnogenol lowers pigmentation intensity and brightens skin complexion. Does this mean that someone with a brown skin tone could actually become white or at least a lot less brown or is this whitening referring to skin irritations and acne scars?

[projectpd]

I think it's a very good question, but of course I don't really know, but Peyronie's is thought to be a result of excessive collagen production specifically at a wound site in the presence of local inflammation, and not thought to be the result of a tendency to excessive collagen production systemically, which quite the contrary seems to be in decline at the ages of men most at risk of Peyronies.  Whereas, pycnogenol is supposed to be anti inflammatory, and this factor at least, therefore, should be helpful .  But if it promotes collagen and elastin preservation or generation in general, whereas these aging people tend to lose these; elastin in particular might be something we should seek to preserve or generate - e.g. if we are doing VED and stretching, it may need new elastin or collagen proteins to be laid down to succeed (even though the scar itself is made of them)  

[swaggyp12]

I agree with you. Combined with traction it may indeed turn out to be beneficial. Do you think the skin-lightening effect of this substance is permanent or will my skin tone go back to normal after I stop taking it?

[hope794]

Thanks for sharing. What is the best daily dosage  for this product, basing on your experience?

[projectpd]

@Swaggy sorry I forgot to address that part of your question.  From my reading,  I can't say, I'm afraid! but I have seen no reason to suppose it would be permanent, it just seems unlikely.