No plaque, still diagnosed

[loloc]

Hi everyone,
about one month ago I noticed a slightly bending, without any pain. I went to the doctor and told me to take pictures of my penis to show him later, the difference hardly remarkable, but I went to the uro today and he diagnosed me peyronies. Is it possible to have it without feeling the plaque?

Thanks,

[welshwales]

It is not uncommon to experience little or no pain, I didn't experience any until about two years in. Did your uro do any kind of physical examination? There are very few other diagnoses regarding a bent penis, and such a symptom is almost always correctly attributed to Peyronie's Disease. But I would be suspicious of a uro who gave you a diagnosis without detecting either a tangible lump or seeing evidence in a scan.

[james1947]

I will second Welshwales.
How the uro diagnosed you? Did he felt any plaque? Did he made and ultrasound?
Regarding pain, except for 3 days following the accident, I had never any pain.

James

[Baldeagle]

Same here, have no plaque and have not experienced hardly any pain?  Uro hade me do an ultrasound (I had to request it) and the ultrasound did not show any plaque.    

[Thisismyusername]

When I was diagnosed I couldn't find any plaque and neither could the urologists.  I had only a very slight bend.  I saw several different ones and eventually one of them squeezed really hard and said he thought he might have felt some.  The squeezing hurt really bad and wasn't worth it.  Eventually I had an MRI of my penis and there were no abnormalities detected.  

Regardless, I definitely have peyronie's disease.  While I don't have any palpable plaque, I believe I have diffuse scar tissue running throughout my penis because I have dents and valleys that I never used to have, and venous leakage on the left, which is the way I bend, and I think it's from scar tissue.  It's hard to confirm the existence of plaque without a large clump in one place.  If you have a new bend in your penis then it is likely that it is peyronie's disease, even if you can't feel plaque.  

Keep in mind that if it is peyronie's disease, it won't necessarily progress much, so try not to worry too much.  In some people it progresses rapidly.  In others it progresses slowly.  In others it doesn't really progress much at all.  In my case I didn't have much progression after the first few months.  

In my opinion the best thing to do if it is peyronie's disease is let your penis rest for a while.  But everyone is different so you will have to find what you think is right.  I'm sure many people would recommend looking into some conservative treatments.  I personally don't think any of them work, but it might still be worth looking into.  

[loloc]

Damn. I expected so. I really don't remember such a bent, so no difference finding the plaque or not. Do you know about someone whose disease progression stopped completely?

[ryanchan]

@Thisismyusername

I too don't feel plaque and agree that it might be distributed.

You mentioned that a venous leak on a specific side could cause the penis to bend to that side. Does that mean the severity of the bend could be a combination of fibrous tissue not stretching properly and the area not filling up completely?  

Based on what i've read online, I believe I have a venous leak because I have my strongest erections while lying down, Good when sitting, and it starts to weaken while standing. My glans also don't fill up completely (which is part of the corpus spongiosum) and I have a downward (ventral) bend. I do feel, that when I try to straighten my penis, that i am stretching something on the bottom side.

I wonder if the curve would be less prominent of there was not venous leak?  

[james1947]

Loloc

I didn't get answer to my 2 questions so I can just answer to your last question:

Do you know about someone whose disease progression stopped completely?

The answer is yes, following treatment, including myself.

James

[loloc]

Hey James, excuse that I didn't answer, I was devastated lately after confirming the fear that I had become the disease. The doctor didn't felt any plaque, or made any scan, he just decided after seeing two photographies, made in one month of difference.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=c76b3b5b5f&view=fimg&th=14af2e937b31dc41&attid=0.1.1&disp=emb&attbid=ANGjdJ9CsxRB-t4vt9e6rNrF7L6TwxQOdI746oTG7SAXpgB-I-WecX7rbfzst0CQtFIJq55fIEIKiMSxmCzGhlLwpUtfLOSDkik1P5b7lCDfXeUwDhsTykEIi8zA-ZA&sz=s0-l75-ft&ats=1422697301611&rm=14af2e937b31dc41&zw&atsh=1

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=c76b3b5b5f&view=fimg&th=14b0824709d8af78&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=f_i55hloei0&safe=1&attbid=ANGjdJ_upgRRXuqiwVWvNkUL0srIi4-0de3Tf9FLixn7ZXC6NzM8Bc-cOuczS21ZNQ9zR9cOeiYHcHO6IrEjWn0t1d11gRo0hBwk-H98eDLagtP5Nk7v4UmBFetWLDk&ats=1422697301621&rm=14b0824709d8af78&zw&sz=w1253-h527


Which treatment do you recommend? I have the feel that are so many just trying to sell stuff that doesn't work.
Bests,

Loloc

I didn't get answer to my 2 questions so I can just answer to your last question:

Do you know about someone whose disease progression stopped completely?

The answer is yes, following treatment, including myself.

James

[Thisismyusername]

@Ryanchan, in my case venous leakage isn't making my curve worse, I think rather the same plaque that is causing the curve is causing a failure in the seal which allows blood to leak through.  The reasons I believe I have venous leakage are: 1) my penis constantly pulses on the left side where my curve is and with each pulse I lose a small amount of erection 2) while I still can get a 100% erection it quickly declines to an 80% erection unless I am extremely aroused or am constantly stimulated, whereas before it was very easy to maintain a perfect erection for as long as I wanted 3) when getting an erection it takes up to 30 seconds to fill up, whereas before it took at most 5 seconds or so.  

However I notice that my curve is much more noticeable when I am partially erect but not 100%.  So if you are not obtaining full erections then this can definitely make your curve worse.  From what you are describing it sounds like you could have venous leakage.  But obviously I am not an expert on this.  

@loloc lots of people's peyronie's disease does stabilize.  I think it's difficult to say if anyone's stabilization is 100%, but I can tell you that my curve hasn't really changed since 2-3 months into this thing, and I'm at 21 months now.  It's possible that my erections have gotten slightly worse or that my penis has lost a little bit of length or girth since then, but nothing major.  

[welshwales]

I wonder if the curve would be less prominent of there was not venous leak?

I asked my uro the same question, but she replied that it is the plaque (one of seven) which caused my venous leak that is also responsible for that particular bend.

[sikkidik]

confusing. no plaque, no bending, no pain but your uro still were able to diagnose you with Peyronies Disease? If you had none of the symptomps above, what brought you to the uro and how uro gave you the Peyronies Disease diagnosis?

I went to an uro when I kind of felt some lump under the skin. No bending though. He said it is Peyronies Disease. Then I went to a Peyronies Disease expert and he could not feel any plaque. Still no bending. He said no plaue, no bending, probably it is not Peyronies Disease, come back in a month or earlier if something shows up or happens. BTW, in my case what I still have is some penis pain. It is more like discomfort but enough to disturb me and cause worry. We'll see what happens. I am still confused whether I may not have Peyronies Disease but some penis pain due to something else. Peyronies Disease expert said I could have had some trauma there.

[LWillisjr]

Many urologists for some reason are quick to diagnose anything that is "not normal" it seems as Peyronies. Seems it is becoming the trendy diagnosis of the day. The original definition by the French doctor back in the 1700's defined is as plaque causing curvature. But we do understand a little bit more now. And that it seems to be some fibrosis that may or may not cause pain, curvature, ED, etc.

My main point here is that I have learned over time that as much I thought I knew about my own anatomy, I knew very little. And the only medical condition I was aware of was ED and hoped that I never experienced it. I have since learned that there are MANY penis related health issues and conditions. If we start to refer to everything as Peyronies Disease, then we end up chasing the wrong path of diagnosis and therapy when we should be treating a non Peyronies related issue.

When we go to doctors we expect answers, options, and solutions. I'm not intending to say anything bad about doctors in general, but I have come to realize over many years that they aren't the all knowing experts. They have had a lot of training but are humna just the same as all of us. The doctor with the most credentials hanging on the office wall doesn't make him or her the best doctor.

Keep in mind there are many other things that can cause lumps, bumps, nodules, dents, ED,  curvature, pain, etc. other than Peyronies Disease.

[james1947]

loloc

Your two links bringing me to google mail log in page.

James  

[loloc]

That may be because I took them from my email, but I just reconsidered post such images on the web. Anyway, I'm around 20º now. Is that a lot for the beginning? How were your bends and the start?

loloc

Your two links bringing me to google mail log in page.

James

[emasculated]

Somewhere on pubmed I once read an article where they could not detect any plaque with ultrasound. They then used a different method which I can't remember and detected the plaque. There sometimes is non-detectable plaque present.  

[james1947]

Loloc

I will second Emasculated regarding plaque detection.
Regarding 20 degree bent, is not bad at all.
If you don't want that it will progress, you should be on a treatment already in my opinion. I don't see any post you are mentioning a treatment regimen, but maybe I missed it.
Moving your topic to have continuity, as an introductory topic can have maximum 10 posts and have to be locked.

James

[loloc]

Hi James, I would like to do everything possible to stop the progress, my doc only prescribed vitamin E, and there's so many additional options on the web that I don't know where to start. Which is your personal recommendation?
Thanks a lot

Quote deleted by moderator - James
Please read the forum rules regarding quote.

[james1947]

Loloc

If it is Peyronies, a preventing treatment will be in my opinion VED, Pentox 3*400 mg, 2.5 mg Cialis if no ED, 5 mg if have ED and Ubiquinol 200 to 300 mg.
Read first regarding the treatment components, especially careful with VED not to make some damage.
You should try to find a better doctor also, one that is updated regarding Peyronies treatments.

James  

[peter123]

It is not uncommon to experience little or no pain, I didn't experience any until about two years in. Did your uro do any kind of physical examination? There are very few other diagnoses regarding a bent penis, and such a symptom is almost always correctly attributed to Peyronie's Disease. But I would be suspicious of a uro who gave you a diagnosis without detecting either a tangible lump or seeing evidence in a scan.

2 years in??? the worst about peyronies is that its basicllay on par with cancer as far as mental wreckage is concerned