Vitamin C, possibly helpful or possibly hurtful?

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technique755

I was reading on vitamin c and "healthy collagen formation" and it states that it is key to helping the body form healthy collagen, obviously different from the collagen in the scar tissue in penis.

I know there may or may not have been studies on this, but like all things on this subject and site. It probably wasn't a long study or very in-depth. So i'm curious on this.

But i also noticed something, it helps the formation of collagen. Regardless of whether it's the "good" or "Bad" collagen it's still helping the process, i could argue.

Does anyone have any knowledge on this and if vitamin c could actually HURT peyronies?

Let's try to figure this out.

Skjaldborg

From my understanding of the literature, cytokines and tgf-beta seem to trigger the inflammatory/collagen depositing process of Peyronie's disease. It's not so much the collagen that's the problem, it's that your own body is signaling it to be deposited someplace where it is not needed and in excessive amounts.

The literature does not mention vitamin C as being a contributing factor. Vitamin C is very common in multivitamins and of course, present in green leafy veggies and citrus fruits. I can't see how one could avoid it if it were proven to be a contributor to Peyronie's (and there is no evidence that there is). Not getting enough results in scurvy, which is arguably worse than Peyronie's and oddly enough, causes poor wound healing.

-Skjald

technique755

So sjkald you're saying it's nothing to do with what people take so much as how that SPECIFIC persons body reacts by produces TOO MUCH in an area that is unneeded essentially??

Skjaldborg

That is correct. Collagen deposition (scarring) is a natural part of the wound healing process. The problem is when the body continues to have inflammation and signals for more scar tissue that is not needed. That is why Peyronie's is so hard to treat: Urologists and researchers do not know why the body signals for the scarring to occur. It's not something you can switch off.

-Skjald

technique755

I'm confused, they did studies on anti-inflammatories helping peyronies and all said it doesn't. Yet you just said it is caused by excess inflammation.

Why would advil not help?

Also, what's your verdict on vitamin c? Could it possibly help and not hurt? Or possibly hurt and possibly help or neither? I know it's a longshot but i'm curious as to if it would be better to take or not.

Skjaldborg

No, I said: "cytokines and tgf-beta seem to trigger the inflammatory/collagen depositing process of Peyronie's disease."

Anti-inflammatories don't work because because they don't shut off the mechanism (likely genetic) that causes the inflammation and scar tissue to be deposited.

You have to understand that the mechanism that causes Peyronie's is not known, that is why there is no cure. Some treatments (like pentox) work somewhat because they inhibit tgf-beta and encourage healing, but they don't fix the underlying problem and they can't remove scar tissue that's already there.

Vitamin C likely won't do anything. Many folks here have tried multivitamins of various types with no success. It won't hurt you, so try if you want.

-Skjald

technique755

I understand but i'm asking if it could somehow theoritically (above 30% chance) actually do harm because of what i said in my original post.

Also, so pentox does "work" at least somewhat??

NeoV

Technique, so far every single thing you have asked has been answered on these forums. Try searching a bit. Not that I mind particularly. Topics will just have to be merged and the mod may be irritated. Still, always good discussion. Just mind you, this is all common sense around here. To ask "does pentox work?" isn't going to help you nearly as much as searching the forums and reading the studies yourself. Not many people read the studies, nor do they know how to analyze them, but it helps us all out when you do! : )

This study says that NSAID's may actually increase scarring.
Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs for wounds: pain relief or exc... - PubMed - NCBI

"inflammation" is not a single thing, it's an umbrella term for many different things. NSAID's act through blocking COX-1, and what we need to lower is tgf-beta, just as Skjald said. At least, this is what our current understanding is.

Of course pentox works, but what does "works" mean? It means there are studies showing it does. Please read them. There are no 100%s here, only studies, limited ones, and it's all we have.

You will hear people talk about CoQ10 favorably, and read dozens of threads on it, but where does this come from? a single study. There only exists ONE study on CoQ10 and Peyronie's, read it, and you decide if it works. It is also beneficial to google at ncbi (pubmed) in order to see what studies exist on these things. It's quite an amazing tool. I am compiling studies on particular things in the library section. Feel free to contribute and let us know if you discover anything useful.

For the record, the study on CoQ10 is good, the studies on Pentox are good, and the ALCAR ones are very limited, though other related research seems of interest. Arginine and Citrulline have solid science and studies backing them for erection quality. Try searching for "fibrosis" in pubmed, and see where it takes you.




james1947

technique

In addition to what NeoV has written:
Read what people posted regarding they own experience and some compilation we had made.
I know it takes time, but it will help you to decide what to do.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum