Low testosterone as a cause of Peyronie's

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casey57

I read a study regarding low T as being a potential contributor to Peyronie's, after my doctor told me about it. Mice that were castrated, developed a thinning of the tunica albuginea, that can lead to the condition.
I have had low T for quite a while, which has caused osteopenia. I started replacement therapy several years ago with the gels, but they don't absorb well on me. My level is only 230, while using Androgel pump. The peyronies specialist that I saw last week in Boston wants to switch me to either the weekly injection, or the tri- monthly pellet injection. He says that with continued low T, my chances of a good, lasting outcome of my upcoming Xiaflex injections that I am considering, are in jeopardy. I have had Peyronies for 3 years now. I also took Inderal for many years for my blood pressure, which some reports say, can also contribute to peyronies.

james1947

casey57

Many forum members and doctors see low T level of causing ED and Peyronies.
At your age the T levels should be between 190 to 740, but it is a huge range and you should be close to the top, not to the bottom.
What your doctor is proposing it is OK, but change in diet can help increase the T levels also.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

UrsusMinor

I wanted to bump this thread a bit, as otherwise I would be posting to someone's intro thread.

JonbinSpain posted a link to an article about low testosterone and Peyronie's on that thread. https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,5345.msg59868.html#msg59868

I have found some other references. In many it looks as if low Free testosterone is more important than testosterone per se.

Here is one reference from a presentation http://www.massmed.org/Continuing-Education-and-Events/Conference-Proceeding-Archive/Morgantaler-presentation/ that shows that curvature is most strongly correlated with free T (see pg 19).

There is also a rather hilarious chart on on page 4 that claims "Male Sexual Dysfunction" has "Three Primary Areas"...and then lists Four rather than Three!

skunkworks

Quote from: casey57 on July 22, 2014, 03:37:28 PM
I read a study regarding low T as being a potential contributor to Peyronie's, after my doctor told me about it. Mice that were castrated, developed a thinning of the tunica albuginea, that can lead to the condition.
I have had low T for quite a while, which has caused osteopenia. I started replacement therapy several years ago with the gels, but they don't absorb well on me. My level is only 230, while using Androgel pump. The peyronies specialist that I saw last week in Boston wants to switch me to either the weekly injection, or the tri- monthly pellet injection. He says that with continued low T, my chances of a good, lasting outcome of my upcoming Xiaflex injections that I am considering, are in jeopardy. I have had Peyronies for 3 years now. I also took Inderal for many years for my blood pressure, which some reports say, can also contribute to peyronies.

Hey Casey, could you link to that study you read please? The thinning tunica one? Sounds very interesting
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

Johnny

I haven't posted here for several years but read the board from time to time.

I am CONVINCED that low testosterone was MY cause of Peyronie's and have thought this for the last 3 years. Back in 2007, I was 33 when I was diagnosed with it. My urologist ran bloodwork for TOTAL testosterone which was "in the high side of range". No more bloodwork was performed and I underwent a series (weeks) of excruciating verapamil injections.

Then, about 3 years ago, I was having all of the classic low testosterone symptoms. No energy, brain fog, couldn't get rid of a layer of fat in my midsection even though I was 6'4" and 195 pounds. Went to a well known male hormone doctor in Lansing, MI. He tested for total testosterone and free testosterone (and many other things).  His statement: "Your total testosterone looks really good. However, your SHBG is 3x higher than normal (it was 62 with 20 being ideal). Because of this, it is binding your testosterone...your "free testosterone" level is that of an 80 year old." (Again, my urologist FAILED to test my SHBG and free testosterone back in 2007!)

Bingo.

I started HRT in 2012. Now I inject testosterone 1x a week preceded by 2 days of HCG. These injections have changed my life and I have not had any other issues with Peyronie's to date.  I've lost about 20 pounds in the three months after starting injections and feel like a kid again (I'm 41 now). My Peyronie's is stable.

One other note, in 2007 I was rear-ended by an SUV. I believe the "trigger" in my case was a combination of low testosterone and trauma. I've read quite a few articles on it and find links to the two where trauma lowers testosterone levels. In my case, I believe that the trauma lowered my testosterone levels even more than they already were and the two, in combination, was the cause of the onset of Peyronie's for me.  

Think of other forms of trauma...sex, masturbation, bike riding on a hard seat, tight jeans, etc. I do believe that the trauma required to spur Peyronie's does not have to be significant or even noticeable. Once the tunica becomes thin (specifically from lack of testosterone), it's just a matter of time until Peyronie's happens.

I hope this post helps someone out. Get your total testosterone, free testosterone, "sensitive estrogen", DHEA, Vit D and SHBG levels checked if you have not already done so. (My urologist FAILED to test my SHBG and free testosterone in 2007.) Who knows, you could in the same boat that I was back in 2007.

 

ozonedoctor

related abstract:

J Sex Med. 2009 Jun;6(6):1729-35. doi: 10.1111/j.1743-6109.2009.01250.x. Epub 2009 Mar 30.
Testosterone deficiency and Peyronie's disease: pilot data suggesting a significant relationship.
Moreno SA1, Morgentaler A.
Author information
Abstract
INTRODUCTION:
As testosterone (T) has been shown to influence wound healing, and serum T declines in the age group at risk for Peyronie's disease (Peyronies Disease), we explored the possibility that low serum T may be associated with Peyronies Disease.
AIM:
The purpose of this study was to evaluate the relationship between serum T concentrations and features of Peyronies Disease.
METHODS:
Medical records were reviewed for 121 consecutive patients with Peyronies Disease seen over a 2-year period. All patients were assessed for sociodemographic data, medical history, comorbid medical conditions, findings on physical examination, and severity of curvature. Laboratory testing included serum concentrations of total testosterone (TT) and free testosterone (FT). Testosterone deficiency (TD) was defined as TT values less than 300 ng/dL and/or FT less than 1.5 ng/dL.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
Prevalence of TD in men with Peyronies Disease and correlation of TT and FT with severity of curvature and plaque size.
RESULTS:
Mean patient age was 53.9 +/- 10.6 years (range 28-77). Penile curvature was 50.2 +/- 23.6 degrees (range 10-120). Mean TT was 411.6 +/- 203.6 ng/dL (range 69-877), and mean FT was 1.12 +/- 0.58 ng/dL (range 0.13-5.06). Low T was identified in 29.5% by TT alone and in 74.4% overall. Severity of curvature was greater for men with TD compared with men with normal T (54.3 vs. 37.1 degrees, P = 0.006). Men with low FT had greater penile curvature than men with normal FT (37.5 vs. 55.9 degrees, respectively, P = 0.003). Severity of penile curvature correlated significantly with FT (r = -0.314, P = 0.016) and estradiol/T (r = 0.476, P = 0.0001) but not TT (r = -0.199, P = 0.138).
CONCLUSIONS:
This pilot study suggests a possibly important relationship between low T and Peyronies Disease. Further prospective studies are needed to confirm this relationship.

goodluck

Johnny,  Thanks for sharing.  It seems that the root cause of your T issue is SHBG being too high at 3x the normal level.  This prevent you form having healthy Free T levels.

Has you doctor talked to you about ways to lower your SHBG?   Probably not.  Nettles tea can lower it.   But I think you have to drink a lot of it.   The herb Tribulus also lowers it.  This is how it boosts Free T.  Body builders use this all the time.

The abstract below shows a correlation to Free T and estradiol to Peyronies, but no mention of SHBG. I am not sure if this is too late but If you can manage the SHBG to be lower you may be better off than getting weekly T injections.  

I agree with you in terms of trauma or stress induced by trauma.


Johnny

Hi goodluck,

My doc had me try both natural (Tongkat ali, Stinging Nettles, Tribulus, etc.) as well as pharma (Danazol) over various periods of time (not all at the same time). The "natural route" didn't have any effect on me after several months of supplementing (testing through bloodwork to verify). The Danazol worked immediately, however, all of my hormone levels dropped at the same ratio. Sure, my SHBG dropped but so did my Free T, Total T and E (which is already naturally low). No good.

So, for three and a half years I've been injecting T-Cyp and feel great. I used to do it myself but trained my wife to do it (glute shot) and she's really good at it! No more issues with Peyronie's since (knock on wood). My BP, glucose, liver, DHEA, mood and energy is great. My "still high SHBG" (59.4 on the last blood test, range of 16.5-55.9 nmol/L) keeps my E levels in check so I don't need an estrogen blocker. Guess that's one benefit of high SHBG!

Not saying that herbs don't work, but they just didn't work for me.

james1947

Johnny

The "herbs" didn't work for you and didn't work for me also.
But I think the reason is that the capsules we were taking contains very little bit or even nothing from what is written on them.
I was taking Tongkat Ali from a "reputable" source.
We had a debate on the subject on the forum.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

goodluck

With herbs quality is most everything.

There was an expose done here in the US that found some herbal capsuled products sold at large chains like GNC and Walmart were mostly dried grass.  It was written up in a major news magazine.

I know the rules don't allow mentioning any brands but if you are interested in some of the better brand PM me.
If you live near any herb farms in your area certainly check them out.  

Nettles leaf is best in a tea.  Some people will put the leaves it in soup.  I know this may be inconvenient to make on a daily basis.
 
I have had some good luck with Tribulous in a capsule.  I am taking 2,000mg per day which is 4 caps.




goodluck

Somewhat off topic but still very relevant to the quality of herbal supplements purchases in large chain stores.

Here is a link to the expose on the herbal products sold at 4 large chain stores that I referenced in my earlier post.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/sidebar-whats-in-those-supplements/


james1947

Thanks for the link Goodluck
As I have written before, we had a debate on the forum regarding this issue.
I hope my "Swanson" L-Citrulline Malate Complex is not just dried grass.  :(

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

goodluck

I think Swanson has a pretty good reputation over all.  They don't make anything but contract out to manufacturers.

Again, when purchasing herbs it is best to go to a local farm or farmers market if at all possible.  Make tea or cook with the herb if possible.  Consult with a local herbalist who can make tinctures for you with organic herb.  Otherwise use reputable companies and low prices are usually a red flag.

Citruline-malate is not an herb but to your broader point......is it what the label says it is.  When it comes to amino acids,  you can always look for pharmaceutical grade to get added confidence.   Read the ingredient label carefully.

If it is very inexpensive and looks like a steal of a deal then think twice.  Most of the house branded supplements in the stores listed below are low quality.  I did not need this article to tell me that.  But this is very good confirmation and very disturbing that out right fraud was taking place.

Jonbinspain

I would just add, once again, if you're using amino acids, such as Citrulline Malate, forget Swanson et al, buy in powder form - pharma grade. It's far, far cheaper and it dissolves easily in water. As does ALC, L-Arginine, etc.  

Freemason

Well on the advice of you all here I had my testosterone checked at my uro app with Levine. I also just got my Pentox rx and was thinking of filling it and starting it today(I've been apprehensive to start) then got a call from Levine office today and my Test was 141!!! I figured it would be low but not that low! Im 45.  No wonder my sex drive last few years sucked and my energy was crap.

Funny thing is I used to sell the T patch over a decade ago.lol.  Patch sucks though it falls off.  So I'm wondering if my low T is the primary cause of my Peyronies Disease??  I'm also wondering if going on T therapy will help to improve symptoms?  Maybe I'll grow some hair back.  I go back in late Jan to get a consult and rx for Test.  What I'm also wondering is if I should wait to start Pentox? Both Test and Pentox highly affect red blood cell counts.

james1947

Freemason

In my opinion you should ask Dr. Levine the T/Pentox question

James  
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

MattFoley

Low testosterone was definitely a contributor to my Peyronie's. As was cigarette smoking.


I started taking the following supplements. These supplements are designed to boost testosterone and nitric oxide. They will naturally raise your testosterone. Within a short period of time, you should feel a surge in testosterone that should raise your libido, give you firmer erections and could very reasonably have a positive impact on your Peyronie's:

D-Aspartic Acid

Produced in the pituitary gland and the testicles, this amino acid (also known as D-aspartate) stimulates the release of luteinizing hormone, which boosts testosterone production and acts on Leydig cells (special cells in the testicles) to increase testosterone production as well as the production of sperm. One study, published in a 2009 issue of the journal Reproductive Biology and Endocrinology, found that subjects who had taken a D-aspartate supplement daily for 12 days increased their testosterone levels by more than 40 percent.

Suggested use: Take 3 grams in the morning


Tribulus Terrestris

This herb, also known as puncturevine, grows in North America and Asia and has been used for centuries to treat sexual dysfunction. The active compound in Tribulus is a saponin called protodioscin, which increases the release of luteinizing hormone from the pituitary gland, thereby boosting testosterone production by the testicles. But protodioscin has also been found to boost immune function, which is important because higher testosterone levels often suppress the immune system. By taking Tribulus, you can boost testosterone levels without increasing your risk of getting sick and missing gym time.

Suggested use: 500 to 1,000 milligrams 30 to 60 minutes before sexual activity and/or workouts. Use for 6-8 weeks, then go off it for 4 weeks before cycling back on again.


Fenugreek

Native to southern Europe, this herb is often used in cooking. It boosts testosterone levels because it contains high amounts of furostanolic saponins, similar to those found in Tribulus terrestris. These phytochemicals boost test production by increasing luteinizing-hormone secretion. One study, published in February 2011 in the journal Phytotherapy Research, showed that healthy young men taking a fenugreek
supplement for six weeks experienced a boost in their sex drive, sexual performance and energy levels. The researchers concluded that this was because of a positive effect on the guys' testosterone levels. Another study, published in the October 2010 issue of the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition, reported that trained men taking fenugreek for eight weeks almost doubled their increase in bench-press and leg-press strength, as compared to those taking a placebo, and they also lost a significant amount of body fat, while those taking the placebo did not.

Suggested use: 500 to 1,000 milligrams an hour before sexual activity and/or 30 to 60 minutes before workouts. I use Solaray Fenugreek Extract -- 350 mg.


Damiana

Also known as Turnera diffusa, damiana is native to Mexico and Central and South America, where, for centuries, it has been used as an aphrodisiac. Recent research from the University of Mississippi reported that damiana contains the active ingredients pinocembrin and acacetin, which are potent inhibitors of the aromatase enzyme. Aromatase converts testosterone into estrogen, so by blunting it, damiana keeps testosterone levels higher.

Suggested use: 50 to 500 milligrams 30 to 60 minutes before sexual activity and/or workouts. I use Solaray Damiana Leaves -- 370 mg


Long Jack (Tongkat Ali)

Raises testosterone by stimulating Leydig cells. Second, it frees up testosterone in the bloodstream. Third, reduces levels of the catabolic hormone cortisol.

Suggested use: 100-300 mg of eurycoma per dose and take it in the morning, 30 minutes before workouts and before bed. I use Long Jack PowerMax 200 -- 200 mg


Forskolin

Directly stimulates Leydig cells. Activates the enzyme, adenylate cycclase, which stimulates testosterone production and fat loss. In a study by the University of Kansas (Lawrence), subjects taking forskolin for 12 weeks experienced higher testosterone levels and greater fat loss than those taking a placebo.

Suggest use: Look for products that supply 20-50 mg of forskolin and take it 2-3 times per day before meals. I use Forskolin 50.


Vitamin D3

Vitamin D is produced in the body from cholesterol, as is testosterone, it follows that higher vitamin D levels can encourage higher testosterone levels in men. In fact, Austrian scientists from the Medical University of Graz reported that men with higher blood levels of vitamin D had significantly higher levels of testosterone.

Suggested use: 5,000 IU per day, taken with meals, to maximize all D's benefits.


Zinc

Zinc is very important for the production of natural testosterone because Zinc prevents testosterone from being converted into estrogen (the female hormone) by making the enzyme aromatase not work plus Zinc itself turns estrogen into testosterone and Zinc helps produce healthier sperm and higher sperm counts so actually low levels of zinc can cause low testosterone levels. Foods high in Zinc include oysters (a natural aphrodisiac), liver, seafood, poultry, nuts & seeds.

Suggested use: 100mg of Zinc daily.


Omega-3 Fish Oil

Fish oil has been shown to lower SHBG and increase production of Luteinizing Hormone (the hormone responsible for triggering the testes to produce T).

Suggested use: I use Mega EFA® Omega-3 EPA & DHA Fish Oil -- 2,126 mg per serving


Citrulline

This amino acid is so closely related to arginine that in the body, it is actually converted into arginine. However, citrulline may boost Nitric Oxide (NO) levels even better than its cousin because cells in the digestive tract are always starving for arginine, and they tend to grab it before it can get into the bloodstream and be converted into NO. The intestines are not interested in citrulline in the slightest, however, which means that it passes straight through them and into the bloodstream. One study, published in 2008 in the British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology, found that when subjects took equal amounts of citrulline and arginine, the citrulline increased levels of arginine and
NO in the blood more than taking arginine did. Check this out: Pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic properties of oral L-citrulline and L-arginine: impact on nitric oxide metabolism

Suggested use: 3 to 5 grams 30 to 60 minutes before sexual activity and workouts.


Glycine ProPionyl-l-carnitine

GPLC is a patented compound that combines the amino acid glycine with a form of carnitine, which has been modified to provide the body an extra source of energy and to assist with uptake by muscle tissue. Glycine and carnitine are known to boost levels of nitric oxide in the body, most likely by increasing the activity of nitric-oxide synthase, the enzyme that creates NO. In fact, a study published in December 2007 in the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition reported that trained male weightlifters supplementing with GPLC for four weeks had 30 percent higher NO levels than when they were given a placebo.

Suggested use: 3 to 4.5 grams 30 to 60 minutes before sexual activity and workouts. I use GPLC Glycine Propionyl L-Carnitine HCl-GlycoCarn 1000 mg PLC per serving


PycnoGenol

Extracted from the French maritime pine tree, this patented flavonoid is a potent antioxidant. That means that one way that it can boost NO levels is by neutralizing the free radicals that break down NO. But research shows that Pycnogenol also boosts NO levels by increasing the activity of nitric-oxide synthase, allowing for more arginine to be converted into NO and keeping levels of NO higher for longer.

Suggested use: 50 to 100 milligrams 30 to 60 minutes before sexual activity and workouts. I use Pycnogenol® -- 100 mg


Horny Goat Weed

Also known as "Epimedium", but its common name is pretty fitting — horny goat weed has been used for centuries as an aphrodisiac. But it was only in the last decade that scientists figured out exactly how it works. Researchers from the University of Milan discovered that horny goat weed contains a phytochemical called icariin that inhibits phosphodiesterase-5, an enzyme that normally breaks down NO. By inhibiting this enzyme, horny goat weed helps the body maintain higher NO levels for longer. Because this is the precise mechanism by which drugs like Viagra and Cialis work to boost erections, horny goat weed can truly be called herbal Viagra.

Suggested use: 500 milligrams 30 to 60 minutes before sexual activity and workouts
Got Testosterone?

james1947

Good to see you again active Matt :)
What about your Peyronies?
Interesting to know the developments you had in the last 8 months

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

skunkworks

Quote from: casey57 on July 22, 2014, 03:37:28 PM
I read a study regarding low T as being a potential contributor to Peyronie's, after my doctor told me about it. Mice that were castrated, developed a thinning of the tunica albuginea, that can lead to the condition.

I think this is the study referenced by casey57 - :: Asian Journal of Andrology ::
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

courbe

Quote from: casey57 on July 22, 2014, 03:37:28 PM
I read a study regarding low T as being a potential contributor to Peyronie's, after my doctor told me about it.

I believe this to be true. I got very heavy, my wife became frigid and I had pretty much lost interest in sex (60+). Then I got on the health bandwagon, lost 50 pounds, lift weights and run every other day. Heavy into supplements and shortly after I started taking D-Aspartic acid (to enhance T-production)...

...one morning something woke me up. It was a raging erection like I had not had in years. That is when I discovered I had Peyronie's, plaque and all. Now I am wondering if Xiaflex might help me. Apparently it dissolves the plaque. Mine is right in the middle, on the top, and very well defined.

Crooked_Stick

Xiaflex may help you, I just had my 5th injection yesterday and so far I haven't had much improvement. I go for my 6th tomorrow. Everyone's case is different but I think the biggest challenge is getting the needle in the right spot. It's not as easy to do that as it may seem. You have a better shot if you can find someone who is doing the injections a lot. My doc has his PA do them and he does 10+ injections per week so he knows what he is doing.

As for the testosterone theory, I think low T is a big contributor. It sets the stage for peyronies by causing weaker erections which are more prone to compressional injury among other things.

Question: Were you able to verify by blood test that D-aspartic acid increased your T levels??

Thanks and good luck!
Born 1960, Diagnosed 2013
Initial 40 degree bend, 1" loss, Xiaflex 3 rds of 2 injections
Current 25 degree bend, no palpable plaque, 1/4" loss
VED 5-6 days/week, traction daily,
TRT 20 ml twice weekly, Cialas 3 mg - No ED - Doing Well!

courbe

Quote from: Crooked_Stick on May 19, 2016, 02:10:54 PM

Question: Were you able to verify by blood test that D-aspartic acid increased your T levels??

Thanks and good luck!

No, but I test a lot of supplements and if I do not see a reaction of some sort I stop taking them. D-Aspartic Acid is not a 'magic pill' but it does support T production. Now that I have lost weight and am lifting and sprinting regularly, my T production is optimal for my age (I really don't need a blood test, the erections alone are testament). I think the DAA just keeps things greased. It is very inexpensive if purchased from Bulk Supplements.

Now I am going to try traction and extreme Ubiquinol doses to try to dissolve my plaque disk.

popopo

I think being overweight increases the chance of peyronies not only because it's related to low testosterone, but also because of possible insulin issues or cholesterol levels. In my case testosterone levels alone didn't do much for my erections. Before I started my levels where in the 400's sometimes;300's which id pretty low for a then 17 year old. I got peyronies at that age and now I'm 21 and I've been on trt for almost a year now and my levels are >900 at all times with estrogen in recommended range (20 - 30 pg/l I think). Although it helped me get more fit and active it didn't really do much for peyronies. I still have pain and even though my erections and libido is great (I had high libido and good erections before trt too) my penis is far from healed and I don't know if the progression ever really stops forever. Bottom line, even with high testosterone peyronies might still be as much of a problem, but it defenitely helps in other ways like general health.
Age: 25
Date of onset: 17
Symptoms: sharp pains, numbness, change in shape/size, hourglassing and discolaration from jelqing/VED usage as a teen. Diagnosed with a venous leak and possible scarring.
Treatments tried: cialis, pentox and VED didnt help

james1947

Agree with you popopo:
QuoteBottom line, even with high testosterone peyronies might still be as much of a problem, but it defenitely helps in other ways like general health.
My testosterone is 690+, very high for my age (69) without treatment, high libido but no help with Peyronies, high testosterone not helped also not to get the disease

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Tbones

My NC urologist diagnosed me with Low T after blood work on the first visit.  My numbers were below 300, which is very low for a 48 yr old otherwise healthy male.  She said this is considered a contributing factor to Peyronies and suggested that I start a taking Clomphene Citrate.   Low T is an off label use for this drug.  The idea is that it causes your body to produce more testosterone on it's on rather than having injections,  which can actually slow your bodies natural production.  Check this link for more info: Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid) in Men - A Testosterone Alternative   So I had all the classic symptoms of low T,  inability to lose weight with diet and exercise,  low energy,  sleeping way to much, and mental fog much of the time.   The first week of being on this I noticed immediate results!  First I started losing weight and felt better,  but I also starting having morning erections again, slowly, which had stopped a couple years ago.  I still have Peyronies, but it's not getting any worse.   I've been on this med now for about a month and my weight has dropped from 194 to 179 and I'm still losing, especially in my belly, which has gone from 43 to 40 inches.   I am also planking, walking 25 minutes 3 times a week and eating really healthy (semi-vegetarian diet), However,  I could never of lost this weight before with Low T.   I go back in two weeks to get my testosterone levels checked,  so I'm curious to see how high they are.  I feel better than I have in years and have had no side effects.  I also take B-12, E and D vitamins daily and red rice pill for my high cholesterol.  I don't know if low T caused my Peyronies, but I wanted to let everyone know my great experience I am having with this drug.   I'm still hoping to regain lost length and girth in my penis and wouldn't mind the curve being gone either, but just feeling better overall has helped me deal with it better.  I also recommend using a penis pump at least once a week for 20 minutes, I have found that has also helped stop or deter lose of penis size and regain a little.  I hope this helps and let me know if you have any questions.

MattFoley

James, I apologize because I'm not here very often anymore. My situation is stable. The only thing vacuum pumping and stretching has done is make my penis bigger. Nice benefit but I still have problems and I use Viagra, Cialis, and sometimes Trimix. I usually do just Caverject but I ran out so I'm using Trimix right now.

Also, I self-inject 300 mg. of Testosterone per week. That has made a difference in the quality of my life. My doctor also prescribed HCG and Clomid. I'm taking the Clomid and I'll receive the HCG in a few weeks. My last blood test showed that my testosterone level was near 1,000. That's incredibly high but I like it like that.

I hope you're well and people here are making progress.
Got Testosterone?

JohnWright

I'd really like to see a before and after pic of your testicles related to your aggressive testosterone treatment.

I am only just now in the early research of testosterone supplementation, but everything I've read suggests you have opted to have no testicles, eh?

Male testicles shrivel up into nothing when they are no longer needed to produce testosterone.

Everytime I see one of those big dudes addicted to body building steroids, I smile because I know the not-so-secret price he paid. What a price.

Push that envelope far enough, the testicles die and those dudes have to be on steroids forever. Dang.

NoNads. That's what those dudes got, NoNads.

My T level is 304 right now. I am working with a nutritionist who is guiding me with supplements. He asked me straight up if I was willing to go the nonads route.

Definitely not my first, second, or third option.

Seriously, report out on those nads as you go down this path. I am curious.

John


james1947

JohnW

Your post bellow somehow confusing:
QuoteMale testicles shrivel up into nothing when they are no longer needed to produce testosterone
So what is the age when your testicles no longer need to produce testosterone?
My daughter born when I was 62, I have friends that became fathers close to 80, they had no testosterone treatment
My testosterone is
Quote690+, very high for my age (69) without treatment
My testicles are big, maybe average of 6 time sex per month not enough at 69?
Just recently made a sperm test because I had a prostate surgery 2 years ago and the Dr. said I will not have children anymore.
I was happy with what the doc said (you know, free sex...) but the sperm count was at the highest part, very good mobility.
So I don't fit your theory, and many other man at +/- 10 years of my age that have young children don't fit also.
Regarding body builders you are right, but testosterone is just one of the supplements they are using. They are using huge quantities of different kind of supplements including steroids.

Regarding Matt testicles, I hope he will get online and read this topic again so he can answer you 8)

James  
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Jonbinspain

There is a distinct difference between Body building and weight training, to begin with.

Body Builders are dedicated to increasing muscle size and definition above all else. Many want to appear in competition, and yes, use of Steroids is common. It's easy to spot as you just don't get to be that size without them.

Weight training is completely different, and very beneficial for both health, strength, endurance, and yes it builds testosterone. I always notice that my nuts are full and heavy after a training session.

I'm in the gym 4/5 days a week at the age of 67. I have no problems getting it up and having sex.