Alternative Treatments for Peyronie's Disease

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peterjackson

So far I cannot detect any damage except what has been brought about by Peyronie's.  

StraightAgain

Hello all,

It is important to be taking not l-arginine, but instead 'Acetyl L-Carnitine'. I know it can all sound 'alike' and be somewhat confusing. Studies are showing definite break thru's regarding this. I would highly recommend getting on a 1mg+ regimen a day and monitor your plaque and curvature for at least a 3-month period.

Hope this helps many, as I am nearly 100% confident, it will  ;D


USER BANNED!  He is a: Peyronies Disease SUPPLEMENT RIPOFF SPAMMER

Jonbinspain

Has anybody tried, or had any experience using Colagenese? I was reading an article in a medical journal that suggested that it could be beneficial in the treatment of Peyronie's as it attacks colagen, the major component of the plaque.

james1947

Jonbinspain

I suppose you mean collagenase?
If you will make a search from the main page (Home) for collagenase you will find 49 posts on the subject.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

itsme

Quote from: wiseguy on July 17, 2007, 09:44:50 PM
Hey...
Does anybody have some info about "pentoxifylline injection". Maybe it just the same as taking the pills?


I am taking it. It really has very few results on google, but by the things I have read it seems to be the best thing to do. fujisaki.com.br is my doctor. I am brazilian, maybe here the treatment is cheaper. I would be glad to help. God bless you guys!

Freemason

Quote from: Jonbinspain on September 26, 2012, 02:57:14 AM
Has anybody tried, or had any experience using Colagenese? I was reading an article in a medical journal that suggested that it could be beneficial in the treatment of Peyronie's as it attacks colagen, the major component of the plaque.

Well Collagenase is essentially the primary ingredient in Xialaflex I believe.  I think they make creams and such with Collagenese in it but have no idea if it's meant for Peyronies Disease or if it would do anything.

james1947

From the web:
QuotePentoxifylline Injection Solution may be prescribed for Horses.
Quoteintravenous administration of pentoxifylline to healthy adult horses.
And some information on Guinean pigs from 1993/1995.
Interesting.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Steveo

Has nobody tried Collagenase along with DMSO to (theoretically) carry it through the tissue into the plaque? Doubt it would work but it seems someone would have tried it by now.

Pey-penis

Quote from: hascal on December 06, 2007, 08:37:02 PM
I have had 4 iontophoresis treatments with Verapamil with 3 more scheduled. Now I am prescribed a compound that I must rub onto my penis two times a day that I will receive tomorrow.  
Like all of You I have Peyrone desease (30 degrees to the left). My Uro prescribed me vitamin E but it was only waste of time. I found Serrapeptase useful for stopping pain and temporary slowing disease progression but nothing to do with reverse symptoms. I tried DMSO with Iodine compresses for the night but results were less than average. Now I am trying iontophoresis of verapamil (first two doses) and red light heating a side of penis where plaque is. Can You tell about Yours therapy results?

Pey-penis

In another letter I described a possible causes of the disease. Let me give you another example, which concerns my case. The disease can be caused by mechanical trauma that can disrupt membranes. The body is trying to "patch" a break and a scar forms, which is unstretchable. Next time of erection will break of the membrane in place of adhesion (scar) and is accompanied by pain. In this way, the scarring progresses and mine is already about 3 cm. If the "mending" interval followed by a material which stretches like the original there would be no problem.
How to do that the body use the original material to remove interrupt the continuity of the film?
Maybe use of stem cells could be a solution?
I have another theory as it can be done.
That is the theory that Colloidal silver ion dilution can reset the DNA of filler material supporting scars and is automatically replaced with the DNA adjacent cells of the original tissue. In this way in the union there is no scar, but stretchable material as was the original tissue.
I have an example, if the wound with loss of skin fragment will overlap ionic colloidal silver regularly the site of injury is not a scar or adhesion formation (as with burns) only perfectly smooth skin with no signs of scarring.
How to do with Peyronies? When the disease is in the initial period and was established as a result of trauma (like me) should be used iontophoresis of colloidal silver. Since silver ions are positive and should be put under the positive electrode. I will try it by myself.

melting

Pey-penis, interestingly the atomic weight of colloidal silver is 107 da, which means it is possibly able to penetrate through mixing it with DMSO.
Do you have any possibilitie to test this? ( I have DMSO but right now no possiblitie to get the silver)

And, do you think it has any use on older but soft peyronies tissue?

Quote from: Pey-penis on December 30, 2015, 03:36:25 PM
How to do with Peyronies? When the disease is in the initial period and was established as a result of trauma (like me) should be used iontophoresis of colloidal silver. Since silver ions are positive and should be put under the positive electrode. I will try it by myself.
Daily Transdermals and Traction/VED solved my Peyronies Disease https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,12587.0.html (DMSO+X)

james1947

My private opinion is that much more research needs to understand why during the healing process we are developing scars that are different in composition than the original tissue as Pey-penis has said.
Why a lizard can regrow his tail and other creatures can regrow limbs also and we can't?

James  
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Pey-penis

Hello Melting!
First I'll try to answer Your question. If the scar already set up colloidal silver rather can not change the structure of the scar.
I think it's time to develop procedures. I propose for the case Peyronies arising due to mechanical trauma. In the first period, painful, when followed by the healing of broken tissue, the use of iontophoresis with colloidal silver, so that prevent of build unstretchable scar. But if someone like me trusted the doctor and lost the time to test vitamin E and made soft scars, I propose a probe of softening the scars with the help of iontophoresis of iodine in the form of a solution of iodine in potassium iodide (Lugol's solution) and simultaneously stretching the scar with the help of VED. If during stretching one overdo a bit and will get pain from tearing tissue, immediately use colloidal silver in order to prevent the emergence of second adhesion and scar tissue.
I am open to other suggestions of drugs used for softening scars (Xiaflex in Dupuytren's) as well as other ways to enter the locally specific drugs, for example with the use of DMSO.
I ask everyone to comment and supplement this probe managed to create a procedure as effective as possible.

Pey-penis

Hello James1947!
Why do we form a scar tissue instead of the original? Even doctors do not possess this knowledge :-( I am sure that colloidal silver has such properties as described (reset DNA), because the use of colloidal silver on the forearm burned skin with plant beetroot Sosnowski (Heracleum sosnowskyi Manden) directed by doctors to skin graft, healed spontaneously under the influence of regular use of colloidal silver on the wound.
I think that this is one of the punishments for "original sin" as well as blocking the production by the liver vitamin C from glucose. If we like other animals produced in the liver vitamin C in large quantities it would threaten us no cardiovascular disease, and a lot of other diseases.
Please read Vitamin C Project.
I think that use of stem cells may help with some health problems.

james1947

Pey-penis

I read the article, thank you :)
By the way, my wife forcing me (I am listening to her in certain subjects even she is younger than me 8)  ) to take viatmin C is I have the smallest symptoms of a flue or fatigue.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Pey-penis

I am buying vitamin C (in powder form) at the same wholesale where I buy other components like for example methylene blue, copper sulfate, magnesium sulfate or magnesium chloride, iodine powder and potassium iodide powder, DMSO.

FriskyDingo

Similar to what Pey has posted, I have found over the last few weeks that a high dose of serrapeptase is helping with pain. I have had corporal fibrosis for over 2 years and the pain will not go away. About 500,000 units of enteric coated serrapeptase is one of the few things that makes the pain stop. Also, my penis feels warmer and more random erections with the serrapeptase.

I know many have said serrapeptase was not effective for them, but perhaps the dosage was too low or they had the wrong capsulation. IF you are experiencing pain, I would highly recommend trying serrapeptase at the dosage I am using. I also use around 4,000 units of nattokinase.

I will be attempting a high dose of the enzymes and natural PDE5 inhibitors (horny goat weed, damiana, ect) together. There is a study floating around showing the combination of the two helped reverse corporal fibrosis in rats. I know corporal fibrosis isn't what alot of guys are suffering from, but it may be of some use. I never had a 'plaque' on the tunica, only fibrosis of the cavernosum.  

QuackAttack

Frisky,

What brand are you using? I was taking 9 Blockbuster All Clear per day: 3 at breakfast, 3 at lunch and 3 at dinner. I did that for 4 months and little if an impact.

FriskyDingo

I am using Doctor's Best Serrapeptase 120,000 strength, as opposed to their 40,000. I also take Doctor's Best Natto-Serra, which is a combination of the two. What dosage were you taking? I checked out your supplement and saw 1 serving ( 2 capsules ) is 80,000 units serrapeptase. I felt no effect until I took 480,000 units. Also, Blockbuster says its time released, but can you verify that it is enteric coated? Its important that the enzyme isnt subject to stomach acids. Lastly, what time of day did you take it or rather when was the last time you ate? I take mine first thing in the morning so as to guarantee an empty stomach, and I dont eat anything for at least 2 hours. I know all of the serrapeptase supplements say to wait at least 30 minutes, but I wait more because I can feel the supplement hit my bloodstream, and that takes around an hour. The feeling I get is a mild warming sensation in my extremities and in the front of my head.

I take around 4-6 capsules of Serrapeptase 120,000 strength
I take 2 capsules of Natto-Serra which provides another 80,000 serrapeptase and 4,000 Nattokinase units
So my total max dosage I have taken is 720,000 Serrapeptase units and 4,000 Nattokinase units
I may try 1,500,000 units, which has been used by some youtube video loggers.

I made a post a few months ago, and in that I said enzymes didnt really help, and they didnt then because the dose was too low.
That being said, I think the enzymes are a small factor in the many things I do. IMO having a highly disciplined and informed diet play is the most critical piece in the puzzle, followed by techniques to reduce stress.
Its not like my pain was just bad and then  I took enzymes and it went away. I had already greatly reduced my pain levels by other means, and the enzymes are helping with the last bit that I can't seem to get rid of.

Pey-penis

To make enzymes worked and softened - dissolve fibrin need is their high concentration at the place where the fibrin is present. Thus, injections or topical or large doses of oral bypassing the stomach acids are sufficient. I do not have the knowledge if one can enter them locally with the help of DMSO or also iontophoresis.

Pey-penis

Hello Melting!
Is there any pattern or some sort of formula, which indicates that the element - chemical compound can be transmitted through the skin by DMSO? I do not come across with something that speaking frankly.

NeoV

FriskyDingo,

I never thought I would, but I got a cheap bottle of those enzymes and am trying them.

I rarely praise anything after taking one pill and without scientific studies, but last night my penis felt the most elastic it has in years. My wife felt it and even agreed. Not only that but my elbow and hand pain subsided nearly completely, even after having lifted weights yesterday. What the heck!!

THAT BEING SAID, it may be entirely placebo effect, but damn my head feels odd. My entire body felt warm and I could barely sleep. My heart also feels almost silent compared to before. My heart used to beat very hard but now I don't even notice it. I also did some dead lifts yesterday and barely got tired or out of breath. I looked at my wife and I'm like what the hell? If anything I guess I can conclude from the research that it's acting much like aspirin as it thins out my blood.

I am taking it with Pine Bark extract, and interestingly the two were in a study together to reduce thrombosis and edema in long air plane flights. I just hope the two won't put me at an increased risk of bleeding. If you know me, you know that anything that might help edema is worth trying for me.

I will continue taking this stuff and report back soon. I am also still taking CoQ10, Pine Bark, and having two large bowls of blueberries every day, and many cups of coffee to replace pentox (yes it has science behind it for preventing fibrosis just like any other xanthine derivative).

FriskyDingo

Hey NeoV,

Im glad there you are experiencing, even if temporarily, some symptom relief. I understand your skepticism, I am as well.

I also experienced less sleep. I think it became a problem, and I stopped taking the enzymes a couple days ago and have sleeping better. This is now a contemplation... do I keep taking these at the risk of less sleep? Unfortunately my job requires that I am alert and precise, I cannot make mistakes, so sleep is essential.

Having stopped taking the enzymes for a few days, I have not felt a return of pain. I think thats because I have deploying a topical agent. I think this stuff actually works better than the enzymes, as my penis has been more flaccid, spongier, and warmer than it has in over 2 years. Its called Two Old Goats, and another poster had mentioned it for his penile pain: My way to deal with penile pain - Peyronies Society Forums

Only good amazon reviews for this stuff. And having used it for a week now, I must say that it DOES work at reducing pain. I don't have a plaque, but the pain is always located in one specific area. I rub a small amount on before bed and upon waking, and I have been pain free all day.

I will resume the enzymes soon to see it they were in fact disturbing my sleep. Some youtube loggers said that, according to their naturpath, they were experiencing stress on their liver because the enzymes were detoxing a lot of excess crap out of their system. Im not sure if its true, but I experienced a liver detoxification problem when I took a high dose of Milk Thistle, so it may have some merit. And I am still highly skeptical if the enzymes can actually dissolve penile scar tissue. I believe, according to the research, that they are effective in clearing arteries and vein clots. I have seen many amazon reviews stating the enzymes have cleared lung scarring. Im not sure if these reviews are true, but it may old promise for penile scarring.

But yes, I would recommend Two Old Goats lotion. Check out the amazon reviews and posts on other sites.

NeoV, what brand and what dosage of Serrapeptase are you taking. I would like to try so I can compare to the ones I'm using.

NeoV

Interesting about the essential oil formula. I know a lot of guys tried various oils, some had no relief, others noticed a bit.

Massaging my penis with any oil tens to make the pain go away for a while, I still do it with grape seed oil occasionally.

I'm using Doctor's best, for both serra and natto. I hadn't heard anything about it causing liver issues. That, I am very worried about.

I think there is often a vascular link with Peyronie's. Many people I know suffer not only bending and what appears to be plaque, but also enlarged veins, varicose veins, and thrombosis after injury near or on the penis. I for one developed a massive bundle of veins under my penis when it all started. The bundle moved around a lot and now it's nothing like it used to be. I don't know what exactly caused this or what they were, but I have theories which I speculate are correct. If my case of Peyronie's and other erectile pain is caused by thrombosis, Nattokinase and Serrapeptase should help. So far I've been sitting all day with zero pain on this stuff, and usually sitting causes me a lot of discomfort.

Who knows! But I really hope it doesn't cause any liver issues...

FriskyDingo

Hey it does not cause liver issues in the sense that the enzymes are harming the liver like alcohol does. Its like the enzymes are allowing the liver to process out more crap in your body, so your liver may be get a little backed up before it catches up with everything. People on liver cirrhosis forums speculate the these enzymes will be beneficial for their livers.

I agree with the vascular part of the disease, and sitting, especially car seats, used to be really painful. I also developed new veins around the injury site.

Since you seem to be a regular coffee drinker, have you ever tried bulletproof coffee? If not, its coconut oil and grass fed butter mixed into your coffee. For some reason the medium chain triglycerides in the coconut oil cause the caffeine to last all day and without a crash. Theres a website that promotes the form of coffee, with their own brand of coffee, but the coffee brand is irrelevant. I only drink coffee 1 day week for my 13 hour shift on Fridays. That 1 cup is 12oz, 3tbs coconut oil, and i actually now forgoe the butter. I swear it is the most effective concoction for stimulation. Literally, the one 12oz cup of coffee with the oil keeps me bouncing all day. I will do a 13 hour serving shift and then go to the gym and bust out an intense workout. I never crash either. It may be that I only drink coffee once a week, but I clearly remember having to keep drinking coffee and crashing on it throughout the day before I tried the bulletproof thing. If you have coconut oil try this. The butter adds a nice flavor if you want to try it.

NeoV

I've been drinking "bulletproof" coffee for a while now :) or more like black coffee with huge spoon of coconut oil in it lol. I really enjoy it too.

I am a huge fan of proanthocyadins for Peyronies, so in the mornings I have a bowl of oatmeal loaded with chocolate and blueberries (after I've had my pine bark). Goes great with that coffee! I highly recommend buying big bags of organic frozen blueberries and snacking on them regularly.

I had a very hard time sleeping last night after taking nattokinase at night. I'll stick to mornings only for now. It still seems to be giving me a lot of pain relief and I had a pretty awesome erection yesterday.  

FriskyDingo

Lol our fridges may look the same. I have some cacao nibs I eat some mornings and an industrial sized bag of wild blueberries in the freezer. I also have powdered pine bark extract, which tastes awful, but I put it down anyways.

I am glad to here the pain relief from the enzymes. I have a doppler duplex ultrasound tomorrow, and I will be resuming the enzymes afterwards in the mornings only as well. After 4 months or so I will go back and see if the scar tissue has changed at all as a result of the enzymes and other therapies I am and will be employing.

Which pine bark extract do you use?

NeoV

Awesome, I use Bulk Supplements', which is very cheap and lasts a long time. The only odd part is I don't feel it like the other brands, which used to nearly knock me out and make me nap for hours after taking it. I guess that's a good thing though!

Let us know what the ultrasound shows! I assume that is your first?

FriskyDingo

It was my first, and unfortunately they werent able to give me the duplex doppler ultrasound as they said they would when I scheduled. The ultrasound I did receive covered my penis and the entirety of my lower extremities. The doctor said that on a range of poor to excellent, my lower extremity and penile arterial health is in the excellent range. Although this ultrasound could not detect scar tissue like the duplex doppler, it does show that the scar tissue I do have is not impeding blood flow into my penis.

What I find really interesting is that I think this demonstrates, that at least for me, that a high saturated fat does not cause 'your arteries to clog' as many people believe. I have been eating a high saturated fat diet for 5 years, and this ultrasound, and other tests I have had done in the past (unrelated to peyronie's), have all shown that my diet (high saturated fat, no processed foods) will not harm your arteries.

Now I am scheduling for a MRI with contrast, which I will have to pay $1100 for. Unfortunately I cannot get a duplex doppler ultrasound anywhere near where I live, the technology just doesn't exist here. I wish that place I went to today didnt lie to me, or if not lieing they knew what they actually offered...

NeoV, I am also using Bulk Supplements pine bark. Do you just toss the stuff in your mouth?

NeoV

That's really interesting. Personally I think that your genetics play a big role with your diet in how clogged your arteries get. I think diet > genetics mostly, but still genetics have a part in it too.

I put the pine bark in a glass of water and sip it. Strangely, I like the taste! I enjoy it almost as much as I do my coffee. I think my brain has made a positive associations with proanthocyanidins or at least psychologically I have.

I have been a bit concerned however, since Bulk Supps' pine bark doesn't give me the insane erections another brand did, nor does it knock me out. The other one I took made my entire body warm, forced me to nap, and made my penis very very hard. Maybe that one was contaminated, or maybe the source is just different. It's impossible to know due to supplements being nearly completely unregulated. Of course, maybe it was just dosage, but it sure doesn't seem that way.

FriskyDingo

Since you had such an interesting effect with the other pine bark, what brand was it and what dosage did you use?

Also, do you take it with meals? I would prefer to take it independent of my meals but sometimes things require food for absorption. Internet searches are mixed regarding with a meal or not.

NeoV

I took Now Foods 240mg, which is from Chinese pine bark, a high dosage mind you, and not the French trademarked "Pycogenol." I'll be getting it again soon to test it. Honestly it really knocked me out and gave me very hard erections, the best I've had in my life along with some Citrulline. I honestly bought it only because it was the highest dosage and lowest price by a long shot.

james1947

NeoV

The high quantity you are talking about giving you very hard erection, how much Pycnogenol and how much L Citrulline Malate?
How long time after taking it you got the strong erection?
I try to replace Viagra that makes me headache

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

FriskyDingo

James, I wont answer the pycnogenol / citrulline question, but if you want a natural alternative to viagra then I would highly recommend Horny Goat Weed. I use to mess around with this stuff before peyronie's and it worked incredibly well. It worked so well for me that girls that usually werent attractive to me were looking very good. It takes a few days to kick in as it builds in your system. Usually by the 5th consecutive day I would feel it kicking in. I took 1000mg of horny goat weed at 10% iicarin (this is the active ingredient).

I have been contemplating taking a combination of horny goat weed, pycnogenol, and citrulline malate once I have completely eliminated the pain.

Also, I have found that Damiana makes me extremely aroused. If I take a high enough dose it makes me so horny I cant sleep. So ya add Damiana to the replace viagra list.

james1947

FriskyDingo

First, thanks for the advice.
Now a lot more questions regarding brands and price what I found here where I am living.
You bring it on yourself, I mean the questions ;D
*Naturopatica horny goat weed, they write is from Australia
Each pill contains 3 gram horny weed, tribulus terrestris 3 gr, ginseng 750 mg...vitamins, total per pill 8.3 gram.Sounds too much for me, I don't know. Price 50 tablets $35
*Prolab horny weed
Each capsule contains Niacin 80 mg, horny goat weed 500 mg (10% iicarin), maca extract 250 mg, tribulus terestris 250 mg, gingko...extract 120 mg, Yohimbe extract 100 mg. Price 60 capsules $38
* GNC horny goat weed
Horny goat weed 600 mg, maca root extract 250 mg, polypodium vulgare root powder 25 mg. Price per 60 capsules $65
* Found also a product that they say contains 60% iicarin
What is your opinion about the above products?

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

FriskyDingo

I personally found Source Naturals Horny Goat Weed to be the most effective. They are 1000mg tablets with 10% iicarins (the active ingredient). I would personally not buy any herbal supplement with a mixture of things because I don't know the side effects of all of them. I have read in the past that herbs like Yohimbe can cause sleeplessness and heart palpitations. I am interested in trying Tribulus, as I have read good literature about it, but that too can cause side effects. Dont get me wrong, Horny Goat Weed can cause sleeplessness too if taken in too high a dose. I had that happen to me simply because I was too horny to sleep.

Get the Source Naturals brand I mentioned if you can. The benefit of doing only the goat weed right now is that you will be able to tell if its in fact the goat weed working, and not some other herb if its a mixture of herbs. Start with half a tablet. You can break them in half easily. After a week move up to 1 full table each day.

By the way, horny goat weed takes 5-7 days to kick in as it builds in your system. Be patient with it.

NeoV

I have yet to try those supplements Dingo, but certainly will.

I just moved back to Tokyo, and have yet to get my bearings here. I brought my usual supplements and have been eating two containers of natto a day here. I read that one container has about 2,000 FU of nattokinase, which surprises me since it's the same as one capsule, plus isoflavanoids, protein, and vitamin K, among other things, which is simply great.

I still maintain that natto or the capsules make my penis very elastic and makes my heart beat unnoticeable when laying still. Traction in the shower or after natto / nattokinase feels very good and seems more effective.

One thing worth mentioning is that the above effects seemed to be only when first taking the capsules, and now they are back when upping the dosage by eating more natto. I am wondering if the body actually down regulates the effect of this stuff or not. It could all be in my mind, and I do not pretend to be certain about any of these effects.

Now that I'm back here, I also have access to cheap hand warmers which last up to 9 hours which are really nice for hyperthermia treatment, as well as isles and isles of 2 liters of very high quality green tea, or "nama cha", or oolong cha, etc, for only about $1.50 which is simply unheard of in the US and something I am very very grateful for.

Though I've lived in Japan for a total of over 4 years, I've never regularly consumed natto until now, so I will continue eating two packages a day at least, and let you guys know how things feel and if the above mentioned effects continue.

FriskyDingo

Hey NeoV,

Is the natto raw? Or has it been pastuerized. I think one would get a lot more from it if it has not been pastuerized.

Im not sure if they body can down regulate nattokinase. It is water soluble, so maybe they body easily control it as it does with water soluble vitamins. I wish I could easily get natto. Then I could get nattokinase and vitamin K2 from an excellent food source and I would be able to discontinue two supplements.

I resumed my enzyme protocol. I experimenting with dosages to see what works best. I took 600,000 units of serrapeptase and 10,000 units of nattokinase for 3 days straight and felt great. Well at least my dick did. I felt a slight weirdness in my eyes. Its like my eyes got heavy as if I was tired, but I was not tired. So what I'm trying to do is find the dose that makes my dick feel good without making my eyes feel weird.

Ive been interested in the hand warmer therapy, but I might just try dunking my junk in a glass of really warm water for ~15 mins prior to VED once I started a VED protocol. Most days of the week I cant use a hand warmer for very long.

NeoV

That is a lot of nattokinase and serrapeptase.

Rather than down regulate, since I understand the body doesn't produce this stuff, I mean compensate I guess. But I have no good reason to suspect this and the research suggests otherwise.

I am afraid of taking too much personally because of that one case of someone taking aspirin and nattokinase who had a brain bleed. Aspirin itself can cause that, and does, all the time, so I don't think it's cause for concern.

The natto I'm eating appears to be natural and raw, but I will try to confirm that. I have many, many, options here all which are very low in price and made in areas of Japan not too far from here. I'll up my dosage a bit and see how it feels.

It's great to hear you feel better after taking those two enzymes. For some odd reason it still seems to make my penis feel better flaccid after taking it.

FriskyDingo

Im still wondering what the mechanism of action is from the enzymes that is helping us. Sometimes I think its the blood thinning effect, but then why does not having a healthy blood viscosity make one feel better? Ive been told my some doctors in the past that my blood was on the thin side, so maybe its not the blood thinning effect form the enzymes.

I cant find any research in regards to our problems specifically, but, as you are aware NeoV, there is evidence of nattokinase helping with deep vein thrombosis. This evidence may suggest that my problem is a vein problem and that your suggestions of Mondor's Disease in other posts is a possibility. I am considering supplementing with other pro-vein supplements, such as Horse Chestnut.

As of right now my dick specific supplements are Nattokinase, Serrapeptase, and Pine Bark Extract. All 3 have helped me feel better, and I took them independent of each other at first to make sure that was the case. I am now going incorporate Horny Goat Weed, Damiana, and Citrulline Malate over the next few months. I find the two herbs to very sexually stimulating, so perhaps the increased blood flow will be synergistic with the enzymes and pine bark.

I have found an enzyme dosage that makes me feel good without the weird side effects: 480,000 units serrapeptase, 6000 units nattokinase.

NeoV

I am certain I have vascular issues on and below my penis, and the literature suggests Peyronie's has some links with vascular injury.

Thinning the blood in my opinion, would clear out inflammation trapped in the penis. The anticoagulant effect of nattokinase could help clear these hematomas as well. This may be why it appears to make my penis much softer and more elastic. Pentox, while working in a few different ways, I imagine works similarily.

It appears safe according to this study this year,
Toxicological assessment of nattokinase derived from Bacillus subtilis var. natto


FriskyDingo

And serrapeptase works in very similar way to nattokinase. I keep reading that serrapeptase is effective for vein thrombrosis and superficial thrombophlebitis.

There are claims that after taking the enzymes at high dosage for 6+ months one will see noticeable reduction in fibrosis or scarring. Well I am going to make sure I take them for at least 6 months. Like you, my dick is feeling softer, more elastic, and personally I have virtually no pain with the enzymes. In fact, I am able to discontinue a natural pain cream because of the enzymes.

Im not sure if the enzymes will help this heal because of a direct mechanism of action or indirectly by thinning blood and allowing inflammation to clear. I think these enzymes would be useful with VED.  

Pey-penis

Hello!
I did not write for a long time because I started a combined therapy, which I described earlier. It involves daily using a mixture of DMSO and Lugol 50/50 in the form of poultice compress on the penis for 30 minutes and then the massage with this wet compress the side where there is adhesion while tension the penis apposition. Unfortunately I have no possibility of daily use the VED but as soon as I have a chance to do it. It took almost two months of this combined treatment and I can see already positive results. Adhesion's soften and it can be stretched to the extent that the curvature of the penis decreased significantly and remained a slight trace of a ring around about half the length. At the same time due to financial reasons I no longer follow Serrapeptase. I think that the continuation of treatment described above improve the condition of the penis, but I think that I can not completely remove the adhesion but they can only be extended so as not to cause curvature.

FriskyDingo

This may be of interested for those with corporal fibrosis:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26405615
>>>>
Results: a decline in the non-treated rat's erectile function is evident by 10-12 months of age and is accompanied by a decrease in the corporal smooth muscle content determined by desmin expression and an increase in corporal fibrosis. The daily treatment for two months with COMP-4 reverses this process by reducing systemic oxidative stress and increasing desmin and iNOS expression, similar to that seen with tadalafil or the combination of COMP-4 plus tadalafil.
CONCLUSION:
An oral combination of ginger, muira puama, Paullinia cupana and L-citrulline seems to be as effective as daily PDE5 inhibitor therapy in either delaying or reversing the onset of the histological and functional characteristics of aging related erectile dysfunction.
<<<<

Im not sure of what its like to take Paullinia Cupana (Guarana) and Muira Puama at the study's recommended dosages. I have taken other VERY POTENT erectile herbs (cnidium, damiana) and let me tell you o my gawd. Herbs can really be effective, and ruin your sleep at the same time. Any one have any experience with these? I can be a lab rat again and test these 2 herbs. Ill need to wait until I have 2 consecutive days off of work to see if they mess with my sleep or not.

Pey-penis

I want to share information from my fight against Peyronie. Already more than half a year I used almost daily compresses consisting of a mixture of liquid iodine with DMSO what I said, and used a massage at a place where are the adhesions after the treatment with a compress using that compress containing more Lugol and DMSO. At the beginning of the progress it was much faster because in about four months curvature decreased so much that I could have sex without combination with position "T". Now, unfortunately, progress has been slower but visible. It occurs even small curvature and small diameter stenosis at the site of ball union, which I wrote about previously (message #792). I may have to frequently use the VED which is a bit cumbersome in my situation. It is possible that I can not restore the original condition and appearance of my dick and for a long time yet remain the trauma caused by this disease.

Trickstar911

ive been taking it for 2 months now and its side affects are head aches , upset tummy , dizzyness and upset sleep time ... i hate taking it but it looks like if i dont old bendy will get worse ...


Quote from: Chuck on April 17, 2006, 01:18:32 AM
Quote from: roadblock on March 30, 2006, 10:54:15 PM
Gents,

  Pentoxifylline also is active in reducing TGF-beta which has been implemented in the development of the fibrous plaques in Peyronies Disease. It seems to me that this is a reasonable treatment with a relatively small potential for serious side effects. Also, Dr. Lue is a well-respected physician in his field with an impressive CV. I know that I'm going to pursue the initiation of this medical therapy, and if any member has any experience with it please post!

roadblock

Yes, it looks like pentox is the only viable treatment for Peyronie's Disease.

QuackAttack

Trick,

My URO had me on Pentox for 5 months and it was worthless and I stopped at 4 months because of the pounding headaches I was getting. I guess it has worked for some people, but I am highly skeptical about how well it works for most people. If you are only using Pentox, you may not see any results. My URO had me on traction with the Pentox, still nothing. Good luck, this condition is a pisser!!!!!!!

james1947

Trickstar911

Like everything with Peyronies, what works for one, not for sure will work for someone else.
You may want to read also:
PENTOX effect on Peyronie's - Forum Experience - Peyronies Society Forums
Oral Treatments General Information - Peyronies Society Forums
Aleviating side effects:
* Use the slow release 400 mg Pentox
* Start with one, increase to 2 and then 3. Your body may get used to it
* Take always with meal, not before, not after
* Drink a lot of water
* Take the latest pill not later than 6:00 PM

James  
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Rudiger

Where did you get the idea for this?

I have. 45 -50 degree left curve but I can't feel any scarring or masses. There is no hour glass ing or dents,and I get very strong morning errections. It's just this disgusting curve.

It's amazing you got results. I would love even 10  degree straightening.

Thank you!

james1947

Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum