Alternative Treatments for Peyronie's Disease

[Hawk]

Im wondering if everyone could put one treatment as the best one, which would it be?

If  any of you could point out which supplement, herb, method has worked best for you to
ease down Peyronies Disease please let us know.

I'm never brief.  My recommendation would depend on whether you have Peyronies Disease with strong erections or Peyronies Disease with some degree of ED  I have 3

Acetyl L Carnitine 2000 - 3000mg daily
VED (Vacuum Erection Device)
HEAT (In the form of hot water localized to just the penis)

I would place less emphasis on the VED for someone that gets full scale rigid erections

[Joshua]

Im wondering if everyone could put one treatment as the best one, which would it be?

If  any of you could point out which supplement, herb, method has worked best for you to ease down Peyronies Disease please let us know.

If I HAD to give one, I would say L-Carnitine but I consider L-Arginine just as helpful if not better.

[learn4life]

I will only comment that Vitamin C and MSM both have warning from different sources that they could worsen Peyronies Disease.  Vitamin C is a huge component in stepping up collagen production.  It is also documented in studies to worsen inflamation and formation of osteo-arthritis.

Hi Hawk!

Thanks for the very warm welcome

mmm so does anyone have any positive experiences with MSM or vitamin C?
Also anyone taking Neprinol here?

Im wondering if everyone could put one treatment as the best one, which would it be?

If  any of you could point out which supplement, herb, method has worked best for you to
ease down Peyronies Disease please let us know.

Cheers!

[Hawk]

I will only comment that Vitamin C and MSM both have warning from different sources that they could worsen Peyronies Disease.  Vitamin C is a huge component in stepping up collagen production.  It is also documented in studies to worsen inflamation and formation of osteo-arthritis.

[learn4life]

Hi !

Thank you very much for your helpful response.

Here are the following Peyronies Disease treatment I will be trying:

Peyronies Disease Plan


Neprinol 3x3 pills daily for 4 weeks but start at 2-3 pills a day for 1-2weeks

Vitamin E Gamma+ Intergral E Daily
Vitamin C Natural Daily (2000mg-4000mg daily)
Castol E Oil to be massaged on scars daily

MSM 2000-4000mg daily for several months then reduce to 1-2grams daily
DMSO 4oz Daily massage twice with Castor E oil


What do you think? Have you tried any of them? What has your experience been like?

Also I take many herbs from a Dr.Lin and use his vip heat massage which I do
daily twice. Also I take Dr.Lins natural Prostaglandin E1 Therapy. This helps
to soften the scars but so far hasnt eliminated it.

Yes ! I will try the infrared formula as I have tried something similar recommended
by Dr.Lin which has really helped with Peyronies Disease.

Cheers !
 

[phil]

Regarding earlier discussion on iontophoresis, it has been using verapimil.  Has anyone used a steriod cream with iontophoresis? If so, any success?

[j]

Need Aponevrotomy (NA) has been performed on Dupuytren's Contractures for decades in Europe with good results. It hasn't been seen in the U.S. until recently; conventional hand surgeons dismissed it.  It's now being done by about half a dozen U.S. MDs and patients are lining up around the block based on word-of-mouth advertising alone. I have DC myself and have had 2 conventional surgeries. Next time I need a correction, I'll be having NA instead.

It doesn't work in all cases; success depends on how the contracture is attached to the surrounding tissue. In most the cases, results are excellent. In all cases, no harm is done.  I've wondered for a long time if something similar could be done for Peyronie's and maybe the answer is yes.

For DC, the NA technique doesn't sever the bands, just weakens them until they can be snapped by forcibly straightening the fingers. So for Peyronie's the key is to induce an erection that stretches the fibrotic tissue tightly, then a special needle is used to weaken it until, hopefully, it tears.

As with DC, those of us in the U.S. might be encountering strong initial resistance from surgeons who refuse to believe that anything so simple, non-invasive and - yes - inexpensive, can actually work.  But with DC, the battle is being won by NA.

I wasn't aware that anyone was trying this for Peyronie's. Based on the history of NA for DC, this may be very good news.  We may end up having to go to France for it, however.

[Larry H]

I secured a copy of the Leriche paper which was in French. Flexor sent me a private note and offered to have the paper translated. I sent it to him and he returned the translation, and I want to thank him for his time and effort.

Barry and I did a little background checking as to why this treatment has not been discussed in more detail, and why we have heard nothing about. We really don't have answers to those questions as yet. I'm sending the paper on to Hawk for whatever action he wishes. Flexor did sum it up nicely.

Larry H

[flexor]

The technique is Needle Aponeurotomy. It is used  for the fibrous build-up on the palm of the hand in Dupuytren's Contracture. The surgeon uses a needle to go just under the skin to tear at the plaque and break it up, so that the palm can straighten.

A similar technique (Leriche technique) has been reported from France, with high success rates. An erection is artificially induced, and the neddle inserted just under the skin to tear the plaque so that the penis can straighten. 'Sucess is' defined as whether the patient thinks it a success, or the ability to resume sexual intercourse. Of  ten men in the experiment, after three months, three reported 'cured' and two reported satisfied. The remaining five returned for a further session, after which three of them were satisfied, and two were so advanced that they went on to surgery, and the treatment did not impede the surgery.

An interesting side issue, which may cheer up Old Man, is that they attribute the high success rate to the requirement that the patient returns rapidly to sexual intercourse after the treatment, or failing this, the use of a VED - the point presumably being to produce erections that stop the torn plaque from knitting back.

I've not found anyone outside France doing this, though it makes sense. Are there doctors in Florida doing this?

[phil]

Rzz posted something back in August about Needle Atrophy.  He mentioned two doctors in Florida that are performing this procedure.  Does anyone have info on this?

Thanks,

[lostlove]

This something I found on the net by a doctor william wong phd sports medicine:
To break up fibrosis( binding scar tissue)
PC Ligament Stretch - Work yourself up into a semi erect (Tumescent) state. Create a ring around the penis with your thumb and middle finger. Starting at the pelvis side of the shaft, slightly tighten the finger ring and draw it out towards the head (glans penis). This will pull the blood towards the head and make it extremely hard and full. Hold this position for 5 to 10 seconds and while holding the ring just before the head pull slowly and gently away from you as if you're lengthening the shaft. Do 20 reps, each rep with a 5 to 10 second hold for 5 sets. (Don't make the ring too tight, and don't yank or tug)! This exercise will not only stretch the PC ligament over time but it also help to break up fibrosis (binding scar type tissue) inside the spongy cavity that prevents it's full engorgement and expansion with blood.

maybe its worth a try.. let me know if it works for anyone?

[secondfourth]

31 from asia.

RECENTLY, i have started to do something about it after gathering
information from the net:

1. i start to take cochicine, and vitamin E.

2. i self made some topical ointment:
actually PLB's verapmil formula is not a sercret, though it is
patent, the content is list in the patent. it is PLO based.

Since i have no channel to buy those ingredient i know from the
patent, say (Fluronic gel 20, etc). i self made the ointment as
below.

a. verapmil pill - ground them into powder
b. dissolve in volka ( with ethanol and water as solvent)
c. lecithin, cod liver oil, flaxseed oil, vit E (lecithin as
penetration enhancer and emulsifier, cod liver oil and flaxseed oil
for their poly un saturated fatty acids, like LA, ALA, OA which are
also penetration enhancer). No DMSO, as i couldn't source them.
d. some vinegar to reduce pH, verapmil has high solubility in ow pH
e. a few drop of lemon and methol essential oil ( limonene and
mehtol as penetrative enhancer too)

I apply the ointment (watery, but dry quickly, probably due to
ethanol evaporation) twice daily. have to shake before use cause the
oil and water base don't mix well.

Not sure of the result. but just try for a week.... hope there is
miracle...

Anyone can give me advice on


-comments on ointment formular?

MAny thanks

[Larry H]

Glenn,

Thanks, that's a very good idea and I'll give it a try.

Thanks Much,

Larry

[Glenn]

Larry,

I don't know how long the report is but you can translate from French to English on a free website.
http://babelfish.altavista.com/    This will translate from one language to another and you just have to copy and paste the text.  The drawback is you can only copy and paste about 150 words at a time.  If it is a long report it would probably be too tedious to pursue.

FYI
Glenn

Flexor,

 In fact I have a copy of the "Leriche Technique" obtained through the NIH. Unfortunately it's in french so it's been of little use to me.


Larry H

[Larry H]

Flexor,

I am in general agreement with what you say. In fact I have a copy of the "Leriche Technique" obtained through the NIH. Unfortunately it's in french so it's been of little use to me.

Yes, there is a lot of this type of research data out there, and it becomes frustrating trying to follow each hopeful path. You can go in so many directions that you become so splintered you end up getting nothing done.

At the PDC we are trying to orginize our efforts into a step by step approach. As a first step it was determined to address the issue of Peyronies Disease being an orphan disease, and this is not a cut and dried matter of good or bad. Being a rare disease limits research, but if it has orphan status funding is available through the "Rare Disease Act of 2002" and an earlier act in 1986. The question becomes one of numbers, so if you prove that Peyronies Disease occurs in say 400,000 men the drug companys will perhaps see this as too small a number for a reasonable return for research. In that case it may be better to have Peyronies Disease retain it's orphan status. If we are talking 4,000,000 men than you have a different picture. There are other questions. Cystic fibrosis is a high profile disease, and it's an orphan disease affecting around 30,000 people, but because it's high profile will it and other high profile diseases push Peyronies Disease aside.

It's complicated, but we are talking to people to make sure we know the issue well before lobbying for any particular position.

Larry H

[nick]

The DMSO portion of my idea is only one of the ideas, that's why I put in here. I haven't really seen what I'm looking for man I wish I didn't drop out of chemestry

[Joshua]

This sound like dmso based topics. There is also some material there you may find interesting to go with your ideas. RZZ and Barry F have done some good research on dmso.  They might be able to help.

[nick]

I have a treatment idea and don't know the best place to post it. I thought maybe a new post but I can't do that :-) So I have believed for quite some time that there is serious vallidity to the idea of enzyme therapy. Taken internally it make perfect sense. So I was thinking what about a topical preperation. I know that DMSO adn emu oil are both none to be great carrier agents. They are supposed to be two of the very few that will carry through all seven tissue layers. Maybe there is somthing better, I don't know. Could I take a mortar and pestal and just gring anzymes to a fine powder and mix with one of these two ? The problem I see is thant powder won't mix well with oil and I read someplace that if you premix something with DMSO it will go bad. I'm sure that a blend of proteolytic and systemic enymes with co-enzymes (they need eachother to work) in a topical preperation would be helpful. I don't think it's a cure but it could help. I just don't know squat about compounding pharmacueticals or things of the like.

[Joshua]

This topic is for Peyronies Disease discussions on alternative treatments that do not fit in other categories.